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How can lifetimers get back at Funcom?

banzai014banzai014 WellingtonPosts: 27Member

So Funcom is laughing all the way to the bank with lifetimers' money. We haven't even seen a return on our investment (12+ months sub time) and TSW has already gone F2P. Instead, we are being given a sop for wanting to support Funcom and trusting their "we won't go F2P anytime, cash shop is cosmetics-only" promise - for a $15 month's sub, players now get $10 in Funcom fake monies that expire after 6 months and 20% discount on all per-character (not even account!) clothing/pets (non-DLC items) bought from the cash shop.  It would be cheaper to buy the $5-10 monthly DLC from the store than sub in this game. 

Of course we can't vote with our wallets, Funcom already has our money. Rather than listening to our complaints, Funcom would be more apt to ban us for being disruptive in chat / forums since they've already milked us cash-wise and we're now just a drain on server resources.

So how can lifetimers protest? We have to do it through word of mouth. It's our duty to warn players from this game. We must warn our friends, our family, warn people in the forums we frequent. Let our cautionary tale make it known that only fools part money with Funcom.

---------------------------

UPDATE:  I have contacted Massively and MMORPG.com awaiting reply suggesting they write an article investigating the legal implications of TSW's B2P change or otherwise recommend me a lawyer specializing in this area that I could talk to. I hope this way we the community can get something started moving forward and clarify exactly  what legal recourse existing subscribers have. I only ask that players get the option of having their extant subscription time refunded, since the subscription service has so wholly changed from what they originally intended to pay for (i.e. it has lost a lot of its value, which is paying for access to the game).

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Comments

  • BetaguyBetaguy Halifax, NSPosts: 2,590Member
    Originally posted by banzai014

    So Funcom is laughing all the way to the bank with lifetimers' money. We haven't even seen a return on our investment (12+ months sub time) and TSW has already gone F2P. Instead, we are being given a sop for wanting to support Funcom and trusting their "we won't go F2P anytime, cash shop is cosmetics-only" promise - for a $15 month's sub, players now get $10 in Funcom fake monies that expire after 6 months and 20% discount on all per-character (not even account!) clothing/pets (non-DLC items) bought from the cash shop.  It would be cheaper to buy the $5-10 monthly DLC from the store than sub in this game. 

    Of course we can't vote with our wallets, Funcom already has our money. Rather than listening to our complaints, Funcom would be more apt to ban us for being disruptive in chat / forums since they've already milked us cash-wise and we're now just a drain on server resources.

    So how can lifetimers protest? We have to do it through word of mouth. It's our duty to warn players from this game. We must warn our friends, our family, warn people in the forums we frequent. Let our cautionary tale make it known that only fools part money with Funcom.

    I tried tell tell people after I first beta tested it, game is not sub base worthy in my opinion.  I knew it wouldn't be long before going this route.

    image

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAPosts: 5,213Member Uncommon
    Play the game free forever. It costs them money.

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • augustgraceaugustgrace Cottonwood, CAPosts: 624Member Uncommon

    Our lifetime payment has already covered nearly 7 months of subs, got us one of the pre-order packs plus lifetime exclusives, and now gets us $10 store money each month, a monthly gift and the exp item.  We'll never have to pay out of pocket for added content, and our allotment will allow us to buy pretty much everything in the store over time.

    If I had known the game would go b2p so soon, would I still have gone lifetime?  meh, perhaps.  But that boat has sailed and we are still getting a good deal for a game that we enjoy (if you bought lifetime you must like the game).

    Perhaps it would be nice if they through in something extra, but what?  Besides which we have no idea what the monthly gifts will be, or what they have planned in the future for subs/lifetimers.  Afterall this was just announced today.

  • FalcomithFalcomith Hastings, FLPosts: 800Member
    Its the risk you take in any game. Buisiness models change, especially on mmorpgs.  Its like buying a game at full price of $60 and 6 months down the road its $30. Should I be upset. Of course not. Its buisiness.
  • Panther2103Panther2103 Edmonds, WAPosts: 2,361Member Uncommon
    It hasn't gone F2P it has gone B2P. There are still benefits to having a monthly subscription and a lifetime subscription. Just like when LOTRO went F2P you will get the points for the cash shop every month, just like every other game that doesn't keep a subscription fee you invested into it hoping that it would be popular enough to keep a subscription. People always go out the door and get a lifetime for any game that they are even mildly intirested in. Thing is, it's worth it to some people. I have seen a couple people posting so far saying that the benefits you still get from it are worth it to them. You can try to get back at funcom but I don't see why wishing a company bad is going to benefit you in the end. It won't. They attempted to have a game that was genuinely different, and it didn't work out in their favor, I actually just talked to a GM and they told me the game is still bringing in profit for them. So I wouldn't say the game is doing bad, it just wasn't doing good enough to justify a subscription fee. Which is normal now a days, even rift is seeing layoffs and isn't doing too hot. It's just the status of the MMORPG market, people do not want to pay a fee every month for a game that doesn't have as much content as the last game they were playing. They don't give the games enough time to develop before they cast their doom spells upon it. People who bought a lifetime sub were investing to it, and it's a gamble to whether or not it will end up being worth it.
  • anthonyc999anthonyc999 Haverhill, MAPosts: 18Member
    explain to me how this is a bad thing for life timers they get 
    • Every month Grandmaster accounts will receive $10 worth of Bonus Points. These points are valid for 6 months and can be used towards any Item Store purchase.
    • Every month Grandmaster accounts will receive the Item-of-the-month: a special gift to all Membership accounts to the game.
    • As a Grandmaster you receive a permanent item: The Time Accelerator. This item is available to all your characters and increases your experience gain by 100% for one hour and has a 16 hour cool-down!
    Further, what used to be a discount of 10% discount to only social items in the Item Store has now been extended to be a discount on everything in the store. As members are getting a 10% discount to everything in the store, Grandmasters now receive a 20% discount! 
    which technically is more then what we would have gotten if the game didnt go B2P?
  • kilunkilun Apopka, FLPosts: 709Member Common
    Originally posted by banzai014

    So Funcom is laughing all the way to the bank with lifetimers' money. We haven't even seen a return on our investment (12+ months sub time) and TSW has already gone F2P. Instead, we are being given a sop for wanting to support Funcom and trusting their "we won't go F2P anytime, cash shop is cosmetics-only" promise - for a $15 month's sub, players now get $10 in Funcom fake monies that expire after 6 months and 20% discount on all per-character (not even account!) clothing/pets (non-DLC items) bought from the cash shop.  It would be cheaper to buy the $5-10 monthly DLC from the store than sub in this game. 

    Of course we can't vote with our wallets, Funcom already has our money. Rather than listening to our complaints, Funcom would be more apt to ban us for being disruptive in chat / forums since they've already milked us cash-wise and we're now just a drain on server resources.

    So how can lifetimers protest? We have to do it through word of mouth. It's our duty to warn players from this game. We must warn our friends, our family, warn people in the forums we frequent. Let our cautionary tale make it known that only fools part money with Funcom.

    So what your saying is you believed that Funcom who's all other titles have gone to a freemium type model would not have this go freemium until at least your roughly a year has passed so the pre-paid time (roughly 1 year sub) was all used up?

    You bought the game knowing that it could close down or go to a freemium soon after release, if you bought it without expecting any worst case scenario that is you own fault.

    They gave you the same thing and added a few bonuses each month.  A cautionary tell was set years ago with Hellgate London's failure.  Everyone knows buying a new game and doing anything more than month sub at a time is a risk.

    (I do have a liftetime subscription and am actually happy about this change, as it looks even a better deal than before)

    www.ozumgames.com

  • MardukkMardukk Posts: 1,557Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by anthonyc999
    explain to me how this is a bad thing for life timers they get 
    • Every month Grandmaster accounts will receive $10 worth of Bonus Points. These points are valid for 6 months and can be used towards any Item Store purchase.
    • Every month Grandmaster accounts will receive the Item-of-the-month: a special gift to all Membership accounts to the game.
    • As a Grandmaster you receive a permanent item: The Time Accelerator. This item is available to all your characters and increases your experience gain by 100% for one hour and has a 16 hour cool-down!
    Further, what used to be a discount of 10% discount to only social items in the Item Store has now been extended to be a discount on everything in the store. As members are getting a 10% discount to everything in the store, Grandmasters now receive a 20% discount! 
    which technically is more then what we would have gotten if the game didnt go B2P?

    Don't cloud their arguments with facts...

  • UNH0LYEV1LUNH0LYEV1L Summerville, SCPosts: 412Member Uncommon
    I'm a life timer and I love the changes.  Can't wait.  Get some more people to this fantastic game!


    Spiritsever - AR/Ele - The Secret World
    Ashmaker - Ranger < Prophets > - Age of Conan - #1 in Kills
    Sweety - Sorceress < Infinite Darkeness > - SWTOR - 2.6K PvP Rating
    ??? - Pilot - ??? - EVE
    Symir - Swordmaster - Warhammer - RR100
    Dreadnaught - Rogue - Rift
  • hehenephehenep Charlottesville, VAPosts: 221Member Uncommon

    So I bought the lifetime knowing there was a good chance the thing would go F2P (or in this case B2P) eventually.  I was personally hoping it wouldn't be for the year and a half or so it'd take for the subscription cost to pan out.  Still, I looked at other games that had a lifetime sub option and saw what those players got out of the deal and figured that even if the game dropped the subscription there'd be a good chance I'd get free store points every month for the life of the game and that's a pretty good deal I've always felt.

     

    Seriously, I don't feel cheated at all and in fact encourage anyone to go buy the game and give it a try.  It's a fantastic setting and a decently fun game.  The combat animations could use some improvement, but the rest of the game's just beautiful (at least on the settings my computer runs it on).

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by hehenep
    So I bought the lifetime knowing there was a good chance the thing would go F2P (or in this case B2P) eventually.  I was personally hoping it wouldn't be for the year and a half or so it'd take for the subscription cost to pan out.  Still, I looked at other games that had a lifetime sub option and saw what those players got out of the deal and figured that even if the game dropped the subscription there'd be a good chance I'd get free store points every month for the life of the game and that's a pretty good deal I've always felt. Seriously, I don't feel cheated at all and in fact encourage anyone to go buy the game and give it a try.  It's a fantastic setting and a decently fun game.  The combat animations could use some improvement, but the rest of the game's just beautiful (at least on the settings my computer runs it on).

    You'll probably have enough store credit to get the future downloadable content for free as well.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • DreskestDreskest El Paso, TXPosts: 69Member

    Lifetimer here as well, and nothing to regret about my purchase. I buy stuff regularly from the cash shop so getting a 20% discount now plus $10 every month (in store points)  and a special free item is just an even better deal now.

     

    But the best part of this change in business model is that the game will attract lots of new players, and that is very positive for the game.

     

    Best of luck with the changes Joel and everyone else at FC !

  • L0C0ManL0C0Man Puerto OrdazPosts: 1,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by hehenep
    So I bought the lifetime knowing there was a good chance the thing would go F2P (or in this case B2P) eventually.  I was personally hoping it wouldn't be for the year and a half or so it'd take for the subscription cost to pan out.  Still, I looked at other games that had a lifetime sub option and saw what those players got out of the deal and figured that even if the game dropped the subscription there'd be a good chance I'd get free store points every month for the life of the game and that's a pretty good deal I've always felt.

     

     

    Seriously, I don't feel cheated at all and in fact encourage anyone to go buy the game and give it a try.  It's a fantastic setting and a decently fun game.  The combat animations could use some improvement, but the rest of the game's just beautiful (at least on the settings my computer runs it on).



    You'll probably have enough store credit to get the future downloadable content for free as well.

     

    Actually, Joel said you will in an interview on this site:

    "all lifetime subscribers will receive Funcom Points (the currency we use in our store) every month ... the bonus points they receive every month more than covers the future DLCs, so lifetimers are left with “free” additional cash to spend in the in-game store whilst unlocking all the content along the way. So a happy day indeed for those who are lifetimers."

    Note how he didn't say that the points will cover one DLC a month or something, he's saying that it's enough for all future content.

    Source: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/404/feature/6962/The-Secret-World-Joel-Bylos-On-the-Buy-to-Play-Change.html

    What can men do against such reckless hate?

  • plutosamsplutosams Seattle, WAPosts: 49Member
    As a lifetimer I am thrilled.  I get $10 a month to spend in the shop, the added content will be at most $5 a month so I get another $5 to spend as I wish.  Over the months I will be able to get some very nice things.  The biggest thing I was struggling with in this game was the population drop, that should hopefully be countered by this move.  I applaud Funcom.
  • snapfusionsnapfusion San, CAPosts: 954Member
    Originally posted by Mardukk
    Originally posted by anthonyc999
    explain to me how this is a bad thing for life timers they get 
    • Every month Grandmaster accounts will receive $10 worth of Bonus Points. These points are valid for 6 months and can be used towards any Item Store purchase.
    • Every month Grandmaster accounts will receive the Item-of-the-month: a special gift to all Membership accounts to the game.
    • As a Grandmaster you receive a permanent item: The Time Accelerator. This item is available to all your characters and increases your experience gain by 100% for one hour and has a 16 hour cool-down!
    Further, what used to be a discount of 10% discount to only social items in the Item Store has now been extended to be a discount on everything in the store. As members are getting a 10% discount to everything in the store, Grandmasters now receive a 20% discount! 
    which technically is more then what we would have gotten if the game didnt go B2P?

    Don't cloud their arguments with facts...

    LOL great response.  How dare you take the edge off my dagger of speculation.  Facts are for NERDS!

  • hehenephehenep Charlottesville, VAPosts: 221Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by hehenep
    So I bought the lifetime knowing there was a good chance the thing would go F2P (or in this case B2P) eventually.  I was personally hoping it wouldn't be for the year and a half or so it'd take for the subscription cost to pan out.  Still, I looked at other games that had a lifetime sub option and saw what those players got out of the deal and figured that even if the game dropped the subscription there'd be a good chance I'd get free store points every month for the life of the game and that's a pretty good deal I've always felt.

     

     

    Seriously, I don't feel cheated at all and in fact encourage anyone to go buy the game and give it a try.  It's a fantastic setting and a decently fun game.  The combat animations could use some improvement, but the rest of the game's just beautiful (at least on the settings my computer runs it on).



    You'll probably have enough store credit to get the future downloadable content for free as well.

     

    The devs have posted on the forums they're shooting for $5-$10 price on the DLC and as a lifetimer I get $10 of points and a 20% off everything that's not DLC.   Of course a lot of people seem to not believe them when they say the DLC will be that cheap.  I'm not sure why, but I figure I'll give them the benifit of the doubt.  And to be honest, if they ever were to release some crazy giant mini-expansion or something I'd expect it to go for a bit more than that.  I also don't expect that to happen all that often.

  • erictlewiserictlewis Cottondale, ALPosts: 3,026Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by banzai014

    So Funcom is laughing all the way to the bank with lifetimers' money. We haven't even seen a return on our investment (12+ months sub time) and TSW has already gone F2P. Instead, we are being given a sop for wanting to support Funcom and trusting their "we won't go F2P anytime, cash shop is cosmetics-only" promise - for a $15 month's sub, players now get $10 in Funcom fake monies that expire after 6 months and 20% discount on all per-character (not even account!) clothing/pets (non-DLC items) bought from the cash shop.  It would be cheaper to buy the $5-10 monthly DLC from the store than sub in this game. 

    Of course we can't vote with our wallets, Funcom already has our money. Rather than listening to our complaints, Funcom would be more apt to ban us for being disruptive in chat / forums since they've already milked us cash-wise and we're now just a drain on server resources.

    So how can lifetimers protest? We have to do it through word of mouth. It's our duty to warn players from this game. We must warn our friends, our family, warn people in the forums we frequent. Let our cautionary tale make it known that only fools part money with Funcom.

    I feel your pain.  Been there done that with lotro for me and the Wifes account.  I felt ripped of by turbine when they did that.  I know my account  is still there, if I bothered to reinstall the game and log in. 

    There is nothing you can do, you either move on or continue to play.   

    This is why I will never buy another lifetime sub again, after having been ripped off by Turbien and now I see folks getting the same thing by TSW.   I got to say I logged into tsw the first time in months played for half an our and logged back out. 

     

  • laseritlaserit Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,951Member Uncommon

    Lifetime sub here as well

     

    I'm happy with the changes, looks more than fair. I've never purchased anything from a cash shop, but now it looks like I may with my free monthly points.

     

    Here's hoping TSW can attract a decent player base so it can improve and grow.

    "If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be someone to ride you." - Bruce Lee

  • rdrakkenrdrakken Gotham, FLPosts: 426Member

    Sorry but I cannot feel the least bit sorry for anyone that bought TSW.

    Funcom has been making MMORPGs since 1991, they have always, I SAID ALWAYS been a company that makes games with great potential. potential. that means they are NEVER as good as they could have been with a company that not only knows HOW to make great games, but a company that actually LISTENS to the community BEFORE its too late.

    Anarchy Online, still one of the WORST launches in the history of the genre, because they did NOT listen to the beta community, they were completely unaware of most of the game bugs that crippled the game for almost 6 FULL MONTHS nor did they show any care at all about what was said about missing content, content that wasnt filled until the second expac over 2 years later but they game was put at the bottom of the MMO pile long before that.

    Age of Conan, damn near the same thing happened only this time they worked out the minor bugs before release but everything else was the same and what happened? A game that should have sold a million+ copies didnt come close and once again they lost players in mass because of their inability to patch and update decenlty.

    Now what? TSW, they focus on patching and updating properly but fall back into not listening to the community again...

    Funcom should focus on being a 100% F2P company, not a paytrap company, a F2P company. 100% free, all revenue from small micro-transaction items via a shop. They are not good enough for the P2P market and no one does as well as F2P games with a freemium/paytrap model.

    Anyway, Funcom's history should have been enough to keep ANYONE from buying this game..,and if they think they are going to do well with a B2P,.,its just AoC all over again only this time they wont have the influx they did with AoC, because that cost nothing to download to find out how piss poor a paytrap it was. I am still reeling over the idiocy of that one, charging 75$ for an expac that cost $39 when it was released in stores...

  • minttunatorminttunator ViimsiPosts: 131Member
    At this point, I'm not angry at all. I think the lifers are getting a pretty good deal with the discount and free credit - if the bonus points are sufficient to buy all the DLC (and they said that will be the case), I'll be happy. :)
  • dancingstardancingstar LeedsPosts: 346Member Uncommon

    Lifetime sub here too, and still no regrets.  Current model I regard as far preferable to the Conan / LOTRO type setup I was expecting we could well end up with.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,280Member Uncommon
    before lifers didn't get anything. Now that b2p is here they get stuff.
  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    before lifers didn't get anything. Now that b2p is here they get stuff.

    I would'nt say they didn't get anything before. But lifers always have and always will be a risk that I will never understand why to get into it early in a games life.

    image


    image

  • SysOpPsycheSysOpPsyche McHenry, ILPosts: 103Member

    Honestly, I have lifetime sub with STO. Tried to be part of the Beta TSW but the client just wouldn't work for me.

    My opinion on the lifer sub for TSW (based on my experience with STO's) is its not that great but its also not that bad either. I rarely play STO but I find my allowance adds up while I'm playing other games. Expirations on how long the allowance will be valid for are either inaccurate or violating the Terms of the Lifetime Sub agreement (if you have a lifetime sub - your account CAN'T expire or cease for as long as the game is live - whether you play it or not and that would include any balances or credits associated with it). The allowance adds up - not as fast as it does for someone actually paying for the credit/virtual currency. It will allow you to buy optional content of your choosing when you accrue enough.

    The things I find making it less than STO's is the lack of Exchange for in-game currency (F2P aka play credit currency) to and from Content Store currency. The initial benefits for having a lifetime subscription also seem bare, extremely underwhelming and effectively insulting to those would put the money out for it (this coming from someone who doesn't have a lifetime sub or has played the game). As well as part of the allowance being alloted to a purchase that may or not be wanted (if the allowance was 15$ worth then items would be a bonus but right now they seem to be mandatory purchases - I know I never buy XP boosters - the game is enjoyable to play regardless of progression or it isn't - boosters won't change that for me and I haven't little interest in playing a game that isn't enjoyable to JUST PLAY IT, some people adore and love Progression (or have friends they want to 'keep up' with) and those items are for them.

    If I am wrong on any FACTS please do correct me as I haven't played the game or own it. My info is strictly hearsay from 3rd parties and FAQ's/News/Beta Info.

  • jdnewelljdnewell Spring Hill, TNPosts: 2,150Member Uncommon

    As a lifetime subscriber you should be happy. You actually are getting MORE per month than you were. Free points, Free item every month, Free xp boost, Use your Free points to buy the DLC, 20% off any other purchases in store.

    What the F**k do you have to be upset over?!? As far as i can tell you were not getting any of that prior to this. If nothing else this will add population to the game, which will be nice.

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