Middle Earth Online goes *****

13

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  • ianubisiianubisi Morgan Hill, CAMember Posts: 4,201


    Originally posted by Jackdog

    Not wanting to sound like I am in the semi finals of the nerd contest however if you bother reading some of the books you would find that Elves did have some magic ( that was even in the movies) and so did Dwarfs in the form of Runecasting whaich was taught to them by the Elves. Among men there was the 'witch king' who may or may not have dabbled in magic, and mentions of men practicing necromancy. Hobbits had no magical powers to be sure although it is rumored they could throw fireballs friom their behinds if they ate too many beans and sat too close to the fire.

    Please keep in mind that Eowyn was the great-granddaughter of a Mayar. She is part Maya, as was her father, which makes her part a "god". Read Beren and Luthien for the full backstory (it's a damned good story).

    Lady Galadriel has a fascinating story, and is extremely ancient...more ancient than Sauron, Gandalf, or any other figure in the series. She was involved in an infamous treachery and kinslaying that caused exceptional levels of grief between the Elves, and she does posess some incredible talents...most of which she learned from a Mayar named Melian who married her brother Thingol (the mother and father of Luthien, mother of Elrond, father of Eowyn). She cannot perform "magic", but she knows more about the world and its ways than anyone alive. She's a treacherous beast of a elf woman...well represented in the film, I think.

    The Witch King was a middle incarnation of Sauron when he was not yet fully formed from his last destruction in Numenor. He was referred to in The Hobbit. Sauron is also a Mayar. He has actually seen many forms, including a Vampire. He was the principal protege of Melkor, the primary "god" of evil.

    "Runecasting" (as you so called) it is nothing more than having exceptionally high skill at the crafting of items which often imbued the items with superior qualities. In its most exceptional form was the actual Silmarils themselves which were imbued with the magical light of the Vaya.

    All the "magic" comes from the "gods", and nobody is playing a "god" in MEO. And don't worry about being a nerd.




  • Originally posted by ianubisi




    Originally posted by Jackdog
    Lets see no PvP, no playable wizards so all the Gandalf wannabees are out of luck, no pet magic in the books either except for a few talking birds, so pet classes are out. No ranged healing cause none of that is in the books either..
    Hmmm sounds like a Middle Earth theme park. Like I am really gonna drop 50 bucks on that box and 15 a month just so I can see all the sights and kill a few skellies with pathing problems.
    You want to see why this game is gonna fall on its butt? Go spend some time reading their forums. 27 pages of posts by 6 or 7 posters on whether Gandalf spoke words to cast spells or just wiggled his finger. It's like a whos the biggest nerd contest over there and they are down to the ten semi finalists.


    PC's casting magic makes absolutely no sense in a Tolkein world. Spellcasting was the domain of the Vayar and Mayar. Elves, Humans, Dwarves, Orcs, Goblins, Hobbits, and the like never used magic nor did they have any such ability. Similarly there wouldn't be any viable precedent for a pet class in that world.

    I really don't know what MEO has planned, but it's not really sensible to consider a lack of spellcasting or pet classes in a Tolkein world to be the fault of the development team.



     1. Did you read the books, or only view the movies? The movies go from being 90% to 0% accurate to the books.

     2. In the books, Humans did use magic. The main thing is there are different type of humans. The ancient Numerians (ancient humans) were more "closer to the gods, more in touch with magic"). In the battle of Helms Deep, in the books,  (not in the filthy, garbage movie version), the Humans never recieved any help from anyone. The Orcs, Goblins, and Wild Men, invaded and drove the King and Humans deep into the mountain. The human King then used ancient magic to repell the dark cloud of Sauruman that covered the sky. The ancient magic used by the human king made light appear in the sky. This rallied the human troops, and weakened the evil forces. The humans pushed ALL of the badguys back.

     The Evil Ents  were waiting a few miles from Helms Deep. The Humans drove the badguys into the Evil Ents who then ate 95% of the badguys who were left, who didn't get killed by the humans. Legolas almost gets eaten by an Evil Ent, but Gandalf saves him.

     3. In the books, the Elves used magic many times! The tree elf queen, the elven smiths when they made weapons and armor, when elves talk to trees, (it was the Elves who made the Ents more sentient)

     4. In the books, the dwarves used magic. Mostly when they made armor, and weapons - only dwarven magic could mould the strongest metal.

     And... the different races are magic.  The dwarves are magical, they have magically enhanced constitution, night vision, sense the right direction miles deep underground, live to be roughly 500 years old, and more.

     Elves are magical, they have magically enhanced defense to extreem cold, (Legolas doesnt feel cold while wearing his thin shoes. The rest of the party feels the cold.) can talk to trees, animals, see far, walk and run on top of snow without sinking, live to be roughly 3,000 years old, and more.

     Hobbits are magical, they have magically enhanced defenses to all evil, evil spells, evil charms, etc. Gandalf at the end of the last book had been studying Frodo and the hobbits. He surmises that only a Hobbit could have carried the ring and no one from any other race - not even Gandalf.

     Humans are magical. Aragorn and the rangers are the last humans with the most genetically connected bloodlines to ancient humans. They could talk to birds, animals. Live to be roughly 500 to 1,000 years old, And more.

     Call this "passive magic".

     5. I do agree that according to Tolkien's vision, and view, only the wizards used magic the most. Even then, they never used magic like our current, modern, definition of wizards. Tolkien's wizards used magic maybe 50% of the time. They also engaged in melee combat, shapeshifted, and had specialties. They were also very rare. There were maybe 5 total wizards in Middle Earth. According to Tolkien, 1 was Gandalf, 1 was Saurumon, 1 was the other guy Gandalf met on the road who specialized in talking to animals.... and the other 2 traveled onward to Africa and the Middle East.

     6. Tolkien's Middle Earth, and everything in it, is ALL simply his version of older European myths, legends, folklore. North European, West European, lore and myths all come from East European and South European myths and got changed.

     Example:

      Elves originally were 1 foot tall, never used bows and arrows, played tricks on humans, were very timid, and lived in holes in the ground. I am sure you heard of the Keebler Elves, Santa's Elves.  They originate from myths hundreds of years older than Tolkien. Elves, fairys, Sprites, Pixies, Dwarves, originally were all the same thing in original European superstition and myths. Which originated in Eastern and Southern Europe.

     There is no definition of an "elf", or "pixie", "orc", "troll", "barbarian", "wizard", etc... It all comes down to what is the current popular belief  of the majority of society. Though technically it can be said there is a definition of a Hobbit, since Tolkien is the one who invented them. Even then, it is obvious he was influenced by stories of Elves, Dwarves, etc... (Hobbits are basically a cross between a Dwarf and an Elf LOL!)

    ------------------------------

     I will also add that there is a definition of a Barbarian, but it is no longer used in anything fatasy related. Barbarian means "hairy uncivilized man who lives in the wild" or "wildman". The Romans made fun of people outside their empire who lived in the north. To the ears of the Romans, their language sounded like "bar, bar, bar".  "Rian" is related to the latin root word for rual. Which still exists in English in present times. Barber is related to barbar. The word the Romans invented for hairy. The Romans invented it based on how the sound of the language of the northern tribes sounded to their ears.

     The Northern tribes were NOT muscular body-builder types! LOL! They were very lean, gaunt, some were dark skinned, tanned, sniewy, always a few days away from starvation. They looked like Iggy Pop. imageBUT they did have incredibly strong minds, strong constitution. They never gave up, they were products of their hostile enviorment.

    ----------------------------------

     It all comes down to what is the current popular public perception, opinion, of what an orc, wizard, troll, elf, is... and what powers they have. And how much money Christopher Tolkien will take to look the other way, and allow Turbine to mess around with J. Ronald Ruel Tolkien's view of elves, orcs, trolls, wizards, elves...and what powers Tolkien felt they have.

  • JackdogJackdog Charleston, SCMember UncommonPosts: 6,321

    Chuckle.... looks like I started a 'who's the biggest nerd contest over here' :)

    What it boils down to is that between the Tolkien people and the fans over on the main site coupled with Turbines seeming incompetence in making a decent game since AC1. MEO will be a watered down theme park more resembling a stripped down EQ1 than a game capable of competing for customers in todays marketplace. Somewhere along the line the people involved with this 'game' forgot that a games main function is to be fun.

    This is going to be Sim Middle Earth, not Middle Earth the game. Same old PvE game play. A faction system from ten years ago. Limited races. M

    I miss DAoC

  • EmbersEmbers LA, CAMember UncommonPosts: 66



    Originally posted by Jackdog

    Lets see no PvP, no playable wizards so all the Gandalf wannabees are out of luck, no pet magic in the books either except for a few talking birds, so pet classes are out. No ranged healing cause none of that is in the books either..
    Hmmm sounds like a Middle Earth theme park. Like I am really gonna drop 50 bucks on that box and 15 a month just so I can see all the sights and kill a few skellies with pathing problems.
    You want to see why this game is gonna fall on its butt? Go spend some time reading their forums. 27 pages of posts by 6 or 7 posters on whether Gandalf spoke words to cast spells or just wiggled his finger. It's like a whos the biggest nerd contest over there and they are down to the ten semi finalists.
     


    Funny and truthful at the same time.  Some people over there have over 8000 posts about a game that isn't released yet and we knwo next to nothing about.  It reminds me of the warhammer online message boards.
  • ianubisiianubisi Morgan Hill, CAMember Posts: 4,201


    Originally posted by xplororor
    1. Did you read the books, or only view the movies? The movies go from being 90% to 0% accurate to the books.

    Yes, I have. Many times. It's pretty clear that you're very confused about what you've read, if you've read it at all.


    Originally posted by xplororor

    2. In the books, Humans did use magic. The main thing is there are different type of humans. The ancient Numerians (ancient humans) were more "closer to the gods, more in touch with magic"). In the battle of Helms Deep, in the books, (not in the filthy, garbage movie version), the Humans never recieved any help from anyone. The Orcs, Goblins, and Wild Men, invaded and drove the King and Humans deep into the mountain. The human King then used ancient magic to repell the dark cloud of Sauruman that covered the sky. The ancient magic used by the human king made light appear in the sky. This rallied the human troops, and weakened the evil forces. The humans pushed ALL of the badguys back.

    Incorrect. Wild Men were not a part of Sauruman's army. Gandalf was the cause of the "magic" you describe, and Gandalf's source (as well as Sauruman and the little-mentioned Radagast) is not specified. He is speculated to be a Mayar, but he is absolutely not human. Theoden King did not use magic. Ever.


    Originally posted by xplororor

    The Evil Ents were waiting a few miles from Helms Deep. The Humans drove the badguys into the Evil Ents who then ate 95% of the badguys who were left, who didn't get killed by the humans. Legolas almost gets eaten by an Evil Ent, but Gandalf saves him.

    Evil Ents? You are clearly smoking some crack.


    Originally posted by xplororor

    3. In the books, the Elves used magic many times! The tree elf queen, the elven smiths when they made weapons and armor, when elves talk to trees, (it was the Elves who made the Ents more sentient)

    Go read the books, friend. Ents are the most ancient life form in Middle Earth...older than any other living creature. Don't even begin to pretend they were made sentient by Elves.


    Originally posted by xplororor

    4. In the books, the dwarves used magic. Mostly when they made armor, and weapons - only dwarven magic could mould the strongest metal.
    Exceptional skill at craftsmanship is not magic...it's skill. The Elves taught the Dwarves how to craft as they did, and the inherent greed of Dwarves drove them to exceptional mastery.


    Originally posted by xplororor

    And... the different races are magic. The dwarves are magical, they have magically enhanced constitution, night vision, sense the right direction miles deep underground, live to be roughly 500 years old, and more.
    That doesn't mean they use "magic" or that they are "magical". They're just different.

    Do you even know the source of the Dwarves creation myth? They were created by Aule before their time, and Iluvatar required that he hibernate them until the Elves were awakened. They have a very special place in the Tolkein mythos, and are inherently unique beings. That still doesn't make them "magic".



    Originally posted by xplororor

    Elves are magical, they have magically enhanced defense to extreem cold, (Legolas doesnt feel cold while wearing his thin shoes. The rest of the party feels the cold.) can talk to trees, animals, see far, walk and run on top of snow without sinking, live to be roughly 3,000 years old, and more.

    Elves can live forever, as they do not succumb to disease or time. But they can be slain. None of this or their exceptional talents make them "magical" or able to use "magic". Show me one source in any of Tolkein's material where an Elf cast a spell.


    Originally posted by xplororor

    Hobbits are magical, they have magically enhanced defenses to all evil, evil spells, evil charms, etc. Gandalf at the end of the last book had been studying Frodo and the hobbits. He surmises that only a Hobbit could have carried the ring and no one from any other race - not even Gandalf.

    Why could a Hobbit carry the ring? Because they are simpletons...not because they have "enhanced defenses to all evils". You're playing far too much D&D and supplanting it onto the Tolkein myth.


    Originally posted by xplororor

    Humans are magical. Aragorn and the rangers are the last humans with the most genetically connected bloodlines to ancient humans. They could talk to birds, animals. Live to be roughly 500 to 1,000 years old, And more.
    Call this "passive magic".

    Aragorn is a direct descendant of Numenorian kings, hence why he has claim of the throne of Gondor, which is an ancient outpost of fallen Numenor. He has no ability to cast "magic", nor did any of his ancestors. They were all exceptionall vibrant, healthy, powerful humans who had been high-born and well-studied. They had consumed more of the knowledge and wisdom of the Elves than any other race of man, and thus had learned the many ways to prolong life. Call it whatever you want, but it's not "magic".



    Originally posted by xplororor

    5. I do agree that according to Tolkien's vision, and view, only the wizards used magic the most. Even then, they never used magic like our current, modern, definition of wizards. Tolkien's wizards used magic maybe 50% of the time. They also engaged in melee combat, shapeshifted, and had specialties. They were also very rare. There were maybe 5 total wizards in Middle Earth. According to Tolkien, 1 was Gandalf, 1 was Saurumon, 1 was the other guy Gandalf met on the road who specialized in talking to animals.... and the other 2 traveled onward to Africa and the Middle East.

    Africa and the Middle East? Dude, this isn't Earth.

  • BadhawkBadhawk Port Orange, FLMember Posts: 203

    *slowly backs out of thread*

  • JackdogJackdog Charleston, SCMember UncommonPosts: 6,321



    Originally posted by Badhawk

    *slowly backs out of thread*


    Darn good idea, I'm right behind you. The geek level here has exceeeded the limits set by the National Institute of Mental Health. 

    I miss DAoC




  • Originally posted by ianubisi




    Originally posted by xplororor


    1. Did you read the books, or only view the movies? The movies go from being 90% to 0% accurate to the books.


    Yes, I have. Many times. It's pretty clear that you're very confused about what you've read, if you've read it at all.

      Welcome to "who's the biggest Tolkien nerd contest" imageimageimageimageimageimage I will leave it up to the lurkers and other posters  to decided if my info is in the books or not.




    Originally posted by xplororor

    2. In the books, Humans did use magic. The main thing is there are different type of humans. The ancient Numerians (ancient humans) were more "closer to the gods, more in touch with magic"). In the battle of Helms Deep, in the books, (not in the filthy, garbage movie version), the Humans never recieved any help from anyone. The Orcs, Goblins, and Wild Men, invaded and drove the King and Humans deep into the mountain. The human King then used ancient magic to repell the dark cloud of Sauruman that covered the sky. The ancient magic used by the human king made light appear in the sky. This rallied the human troops, and weakened the evil forces. The humans pushed ALL of the badguys back.


    Incorrect. Wild Men were not a part of Sauruman's army. Gandalf was the cause of the "magic" you describe, and Gandalf's source (as well as Sauruman and the little-mentioned Radagast) is not specified. He is speculated to be a Mayar, but he is absolutely not human. Theoden King did not use magic. Ever.

       - Really, then WHO was it that Aragorn parlayed with in the books at Helms deep? You really do need to re-read them again. At Helm's Deep Aragorn attempts to parlay with the Wildmen (and Urak-Hai Orcs). They fire a cannon and Aragorn jumps out of the way in time. The books specificaly mention what races and enemies made up Saruman's army. Orcs, Goblins, Uruk-Hai Orcs, and... wildmen under evil influences, or simply bribed.

       - Sorry, but it wasn't Gandalf who used the magic to make the darkness over helms deep dissappear. It was the human King who used magic to make the darkness dissappear.

      - The books do say who or what Gandalf is. He's a lesser god, sent by the head good god to help ME vs the head bad god, who is influencing Sauron who is influencing Sauruman. 4 other lesser gods (Gandalf's "brothers"), along with Gandalf one day stepped off a ship and appeared in ME. The ship came from the land of the lesser and higher gods which is far west of ME. Gandalf's magic comes from... him being a lesser god.




    Originally posted by xplororor

    The Evil Ents were waiting a few miles from Helms Deep. The Humans drove the badguys into the Evil Ents who then ate 95% of the badguys who were left, who didn't get killed by the humans. Legolas almost gets eaten by an Evil Ent, but Gandalf saves him.


    Evil Ents? You are clearly smoking some crack.

      Or maybe... I read the books! Like I said, the movies are good when you look at only the movies. But when compared to the books... the movies are pure garbage because of what was left out. The Evil Ents were left out. Treebeard is the one who contacted them and got them to come near Helms Deep.




    Originally posted by xplororor

    3. In the books, the Elves used magic many times! The tree elf queen, the elven smiths when they made weapons and armor, when elves talk to trees, (it was the Elves who made the Ents more sentient)


    Go read the books, friend. Ents are the most ancient life form in Middle Earth...older than any other living creature. Don't even begin to pretend they were made sentient by Elves.

      - I said the Ents were made MORE sentient by the Elves. At first the Ents were just sentient trees that could NOT walk or move around. They stayed in one place, had no faces. Later on when Elves were created by the main head god, the Elves spoke "tree language" or Entish. The Elves used their magic on the Ents, which allowed the Ents to walk around. And look more "humanoid", arms, legs, faces, eyes, talk outloud, etc...




    Originally posted by xplororor

    4. In the books, the dwarves used magic. Mostly when they made armor, and weapons - only dwarven magic could mould the strongest metal.




    Exceptional skill at craftsmanship is not magic...it's skill. The Elves taught the Dwarves how to craft as they did, and the inherent greed of Dwarves drove them to exceptional mastery.




    Originally posted by xplororor

    And... the different races are magic. The dwarves are magical, they have magically enhanced constitution, night vision, sense the right direction miles deep underground, live to be roughly 500 years old, and more.




    That doesn't mean they use "magic" or that they are "magical". They're just different.

    Do you even know the source of the Dwarves creation myth? They were created by Aule before their time, and Iluvatar required that he hibernate them until the Elves were awakened. They have a very special place in the Tolkein mythos, and are inherently unique beings. That still doesn't make them "magic".

      It is your opinion that the Dwarves use skill and not magic when creating their unique things. Here's more proof that magic is used to make items - when the Elven smiths re-formed Aragorn's sword, they used magic on it to re-forge it. Magic is used to enhance armor, weapons, etc...

     Another example - Frodo's sword "Sting". Which can sense when an Orc is nearby.



    Originally posted by xplororor

    Elves are magical, they have magically enhanced defense to extreem cold, (Legolas doesnt feel cold while wearing his thin shoes. The rest of the party feels the cold.) can talk to trees, animals, see far, walk and run on top of snow without sinking, live to be roughly 3,000 years old, and more.


    Elves can live forever, as they do not succumb to disease or time. But they can be slain. None of this or their exceptional talents make them "magical" or able to use "magic". Show me one source in any of Tolkein's material where an Elf cast a spell.

      The Tree Elf lady who used her magic on Frodo and his friend when she talked to them with the 3 of them alone. She also used the magic of her copy of the ring. She also used her magic to help her not be controlled by the magic of her copy of the ring. (Frodo has the main ring, the 'lead ring', the 'one ring'.)

     She even goes on to say it's her magic that keeps the Tree Elf City hidden from Sauron and Sauruman.




    Originally posted by xplororor

    Hobbits are magical, they have magically enhanced defenses to all evil, evil spells, evil charms, etc. Gandalf at the end of the last book had been studying Frodo and the hobbits. He surmises that only a Hobbit could have carried the ring and no one from any other race - not even Gandalf.


    Why could a Hobbit carry the ring? Because they are simpletons...not because they have "enhanced defenses to all evils". You're playing far too much D&D and supplanting it onto the Tolkein myth.

       Re-read my post that you quoted! Gandalf himself after studying Frodo and the rest of the Hobbits surmised that only a Hobbit could have successfully carried the ring. This is at the end of the 3rd book. Gandalf was pondering, and pondering, when he finally realized that Hobbits are unique in that they have high magical resistance to evil magic.




    Originally posted by xplororor

    Humans are magical. Aragorn and the rangers are the last humans with the most genetically connected bloodlines to ancient humans. They could talk to birds, animals. Live to be roughly 500 to 1,000 years old, And more.
    Call this "passive magic".


    Aragorn is a direct descendant of Numenorian kings, hence why he has claim of the throne of Gondor, which is an ancient outpost of fallen Numenor. He has no ability to cast "magic", nor did any of his ancestors. They were all exceptionall vibrant, healthy, powerful humans who had been high-born and well-studied. They had consumed more of the knowledge and wisdom of the Elves than any other race of man, and thus had learned the many ways to prolong life. Call it whatever you want, but it's not "magic".

       The ability to talk to birds is not magic? O....K. Aragorn also did cast magic, when he healed one of the Hobbits in the 3rd book. Only Aragorn could utter the magical words, and perform the magic.





    Originally posted by xplororor

    5. I do agree that according to Tolkien's vision, and view, only the wizards used magic the most. Even then, they never used magic like our current, modern, definition of wizards. Tolkien's wizards used magic maybe 50% of the time. They also engaged in melee combat, shapeshifted, and had specialties. They were also very rare. There were maybe 5 total wizards in Middle Earth. According to Tolkien, 1 was Gandalf, 1 was Saurumon, 1 was the other guy Gandalf met on the road who specialized in talking to animals.... and the other 2 traveled onward to Africa and the Middle East.


    Africa and the Middle East? Dude, this isn't Earth.



     Go to the library, or bookstore, and buy the following books:

      1. The Silmarillian

      2. Tree and Leaf

     Tolkien himself goes on about how ME was his attempt at giving Eurpeans, and mostly the British, myths, and folklore, that would rival what the Middle Easterners, and other civilizations have. Tolkien also left notes in which he made maps of ME, and the lands beyond it. And guess where Far Haarad is? Where Near Haarad is? In the Middle East. Where do elephants live? In Africa and the Middle East.

     And of course Tolkien briefly writes about what happend to the 2 other Wizards who stepped of the boat with Gandalf... that they continued to travel onward to Africa and the Middle East. Even in the first book, Aragorn briefly tells Frodo that he once lived in the Middle East among the "swarthy men" there.

     Good reading and re-reading!

  • OrccOrcc ,, ONMember Posts: 3,043

    Ianbisi's info is far more correct.

    image



  • Originally posted by Jackdog



    Originally posted by Badhawk

    *slowly backs out of thread*


    Darn good idea, I'm right behind you. The geek level here has exceeeded the limits set by the National Institute of Mental Health. 



    I thought you were a great warrior! How come you do not want to join in the big, brutal, vicious, battle for king of the .... uber-nerds! image
  • JackdogJackdog Charleston, SCMember UncommonPosts: 6,321

    Getting away from the part about how many Mayar can sit on the head of a pin. We have already established the fact that magic spells for the PC's won't and should not be there. Lets talk gameplay here. Something impossible to do on the main site, everyone over there seems to think that just because Mr and Mrs Jones took little Johnny to see LOtR they will be buying a couple of Alienware computers and pre ordering 3 copies so they can all play MEO.

    Can anyone think of any good reason to even pay this game any attention other than the fact it is set in Middle Earth? Limited races, extremely limited class or skill options. I mean what appeal could it possibly have other than the 'theme park'  concept, and how long will that sustain subscriptions?

    I thought seeing some of the sights from the movies in SWG was pretty cool also, for about 30 seconds or so the first time I saw each one. After that I wanted some game action. Maybe it is just me but from what I have seen so far the game has nothing going for it except it is Middle Earth.

    Any speculations on how or what Turbine may do to get and keep subscribers?

     

    I miss DAoC

  • firemagicfiremagic Hello, NJMember Posts: 878


    Originally posted by Jackdog
    Getting away from the part about how many Mayar can sit on the head of a pin. Lets talk gameplay here, we have already established the fact that magic spells for the PC's won't and should not be there.
    Can anyone think of any good reason to even pay this game any attention other than the fact it is set in Middle Earth? Limited races, extremely limited class or skill oprions. I mean what appeal could it possibly have other than the 'theme park'  concept, and how long will that sustain subscriptions?
    I thought seeing some of the sights from the movies in SWG was pretty cool also, for about 30 seconds or so per sight. After that I wanted some game action.
     

    I never thought it'd happen Jackdog, but I agree with you 100%.

    However, I'm sure there are enough obsessive Tolkien fans (the majority of whom suddenly became obsessive Tolkien fans the minute the movies came out) to make a success of this half-baked venture.

  • JackdogJackdog Charleston, SCMember UncommonPosts: 6,321
    Bah Fire, ya have to give me time to edit and rephrase before quoting me :) It's one thing to drop 20 bucks and 3 hours to see a movie , it's a whole different thing to invest the money and more importantly the time to subscribe to a MMO.

    I miss DAoC

  • protorocprotoroc Fort Myers, FLMember Posts: 1,042

    tbh it was most likely to be lame weather it pvp or not....half the people in the game were gonna be named lagoles or some variation, actually i would expect NOT one creative name in the whole game

    Lagoles
    Bolbi
    Dorfo
    Gamli

    i could go on moving letters around and missspellng and adding numbers too it

  • ScarisScaris Arlington, VAMember UncommonPosts: 5,332


    Originally posted by Jackdog
    Getting away from the part about how many Mayar can sit on the head of a pin. We have already established the fact that magic spells for the PC's won't and should not be there. Lets talk gameplay here. Something impossible to do on the main site, everyone over there seems to think that just because Mr and Mrs Jones took little Johnny to see LOtR they will be buying a couple of Alienware computers and pre ordering 3 copies so they can all play MEO.
    Can anyone think of any good reason to even pay this game any attention other than the fact it is set in Middle Earth? Limited races, extremely limited class or skill options. I mean what appeal could it possibly have other than the 'theme park' concept, and how long will that sustain subscriptions?
    I thought seeing some of the sights from the movies in SWG was pretty cool also, for about 30 seconds or so the first time I saw each one. After that I wanted some game action. Maybe it is just me but from what I have seen so far the game has nothing going for it except it is Middle Earth.
    Any speculations on how or what Turbine may do to get and keep subscribers?

    I have to agree as well. MEO has alot of potential as a realm war scenario. At the moment however they seem to want to sell to the movie fans. I never felt the game should be just open PvP full of ganking like old UO, that would really lose alot of the feel to me of what it should be, but I do think you should feel that persistant battle between orc and man going on, and I do think the Orc's should be players and not NPCs.

    As for your question, I had not planned on getting into this game for a few reasons. 1 it would be just another EQ style game, I am happy with the one I am in. 2, turbine is producing it, which leaves me with little faith of it actually being fun. And lastly because I don't care for the turns they have taken with the game lately.

    - Scaris

    "What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World

  • stav1stav1 londonMember Posts: 282
    yep a rare occurence, but i agree 100% with jackdog and fadeus.
  • ianubisiianubisi Morgan Hill, CAMember Posts: 4,201


    Originally posted by Jackdog

    Can anyone think of any good reason to even pay this game any attention other than the fact it is set in Middle Earth?

    Almost none, really. I believe it's going to be the same for MXO. Unless you are an avid fan of the general story there is very little compelling reason to remain. I think this will remain largely true for most games that try very hard to recreate existing worlds. SW:G comes very close to this as well.

    A big part of the problem is the "faithfulness" to the "story" (in either game) that these games are swearing to adhere to. They have constrained themselves into tight boxes because of that adherance. So that means a great deal less versatility in bringing a more compelling gaming experience, but a whole lot more "immersion" (and I use that term very lightly) into the atmosphere of the story.

    The end result is a product that appeals to the fanbase but doesn't appeal to a non-convert gamer. For MEO, I think they'll be fine simply because of how many Tolkein fans there are...exponentially more of them than MXO.

  • XavonXavon SotonMember Posts: 334

    Hmmm, all this talk of adhering to the story...

    WHY, OH WHY ARE HOBBITS A PLAYABLE RACE???!?

    *rips hair out in anger*

  • AdrealAdreal NorwayMember Posts: 2,087
    I think I'll be Gimpelf the noober carebear.

    "Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather
    "Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek
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  • BilasBilas Maple Shade, NJMember Posts: 78



    Originally posted by Adreal
    I think I'll be Gimpelf the noober carebear.

    LOL sounds good!

    'She just left. She didn't even care enough to cut off my head or set me on fire. I mean, is that too much to ask? You know? Some little sign that she cared?"




  • Originally posted by Jackdog

    Getting away from the part about how many Mayar can sit on the head of a pin.
      LOL! NICE one! BTW... how many can sit on the head of a pin? What's the pin made out of?
    We have already established the fact that magic spells for the PC's won't and should not be there.
      From the view of the books, I agree. Magic in Tolkien's ME wasn't used 100% of the time. Not even by the wizards. Wizards engaged in melee combat using swords! Even duel wielding 2 swords at the same time.
    Lets talk gameplay here. Something impossible to do on the main site, everyone over there seems to think that just because Mr and Mrs Jones took little Johnny to see LOtR they will be buying a couple of Alienware computers and pre ordering 3 copies so they can all play MEO.
      I never visited the main site. Mostly because I already knew MEO would be... will be... a failure many months ago. image
    Can anyone think of any good reason to even pay this game any attention other than the fact it is set in Middle Earth? Limited races, extremely limited class or skill options. I mean what appeal could it possibly have other than the 'theme park'  concept, and how long will that sustain subscriptions?
       There's no reason MEO will ever reach 50k accounts and maintain that many accounts for 5 years (minimum accounts MEO needs to re-coup all investment money then make a true profit.). I posted months ago why MEO would fail. In a nutshell here is why:
      1. MEO has already been done before, and successfully! In a little, tiny, itsy bitsy, game called Ever Quest.  EQ is Middle Earth, is Lord of the Rings, is The Hobbit, is the Silmarillian, is Book of Lost Tales 1 and 2. The only thing missing in EQ is a quest to find a ring. EQ has everything else.... Gnomes, the Tree Elf City (still unmatched by any modern MMORPG game... though the mega city in Anarchy Online comes close.) Ents, High Men, female dwarves with beards (which Gimli talks about), the same lore behind Dwarves, Tree Elves, Orcs, Ents, Hobbits...*ahem* halflings, Gnomes, and more, more, more.
      2. MEO has already been done... again! In a tiny game called Ever Quest 2.   'nuff said.
      3. Turbine is making TWO mmorpgs based on the same 'sword & sorcery' theme... at the same time! DDO and MEO! No other game company has ever, ever, attempted to do such an ... *let me try to be polite here*... inane, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, move! Though EA did come close when they claimed UXO would not be competing with UO, then cancelled UXO claiming it would probably end up compeating with UO.
      4. The fantasy-themed/Sword and sorcery-themed MMORPG market is already over-super-uber-saturated. Add the fact Turbine has 1 failed MMORPG on lifesupport. This is extra straws on the already broken camel's back (broken completly by #3).
      5. Tolkien fans do number in the millions worldwide. BUT there is nothing, nada, no source info that remotly points to any of them being internet sufers, computer users, stand alone game players, and finally, mmorpg players.
     
    I thought seeing some of the sights from the movies in SWG was pretty cool also, for about 30 seconds or so the first time I saw each one. After that I wanted some game action. Maybe it is just me but from what I have seen so far the game has nothing going for it except it is Middle Earth.
    Any speculations on how or what Turbine may do to get and keep subscribers?
     


     With SWG the MMORPG, at least SONY and LucasArts knew for a fact there were milions of Star Wars fans who did indeed play computer games. All they needed to do was get a fraction of them to go for paying a monthly fee to play a SW mmorpg. Star Wars titles have long been mega-hit computer games. Selling on the strength of the SW franchise alone. So source info did exist for years that a Star Wars MMORPG would indeed have a chance at success.

      Add the fact SWG is a sci-fi mmorpg in a market that is under-developed. (only Anarchy Online was the only other sci-fi MMORPG out when sWG came out. Yes EvE was out, but it was space only. SWG didn't have space for 1 1/2 years, so no direct competition.) I agree SWG isn't perfect though. IMHO if they stayed with their original plan for perma-death, and PvP for landcontrol, SWG would be a perfect MMORPG. imageimage

     ALL the sites in Middle Earth can be seen in EQ! Including the Tree Elf city in all its glory! (Which I still am amazed by to this day! I still can't believe they were able to design it over 6+ years ago! Everyone should try out EQ just to see it! LOL!). Even the Shire is in EQ. Turbine cannot even keep subscribers for their one hit game AC1. They lost 90% of subscribers for their modern mmorpg AC2. There's nothing Turbine can do to keep subscribers for DDO and MEO. AC1 makes enough true profit to keep AC2 on life support. IMHO it might be possible for the profits from AC1 to keep either DDO or MEO on life support, imagebut not both. Or else AC1 might go under LOL! image Out of DDO or MEO... I hope they pick DDO to keep on life support. When both games come out yes they will likely immediatly have 50k players. But MMORPGs make $$$$ from subscriptions. Both will end up like AC2, losing 90% of all their players after everyone finnishes 'checking out' the game, then using the power of the internet to tell everyone else to not waste their hard earned $$$$$.

     Heck, I might even check out DDO and MEO, even though I know ahead of time both games will fail. I do not mind because I can afford to waste a few bucks. image

  • paradymeparadyme kitchener, ONMember Posts: 238

    And where the hell is Turbine getting the money to produce 2 insanly gigantic indepth with decades of history worlds, last share holder report i seen they had secured 24 million dollars from investors and most of that was going towards buying out the rights to there games from MS.

    And last i heard WoW and EQ2 both ran up tabs upwards of 100 million dollars for production, and Turbine expects to put out 2 worth while games based on dinesty(spelling?) franchises on pocket change?

    ::::29::::::31::

  • RazorbackRazorback OutbackMember Posts: 5,253



    Originally posted by paradyme

    And where the hell is Turbine getting the money to produce 2 insanly gigantic indepth with decades of history worlds, last share holder report i seen they had secured 24 million dollars from investors and most of that was going towards buying out the rights to there games from MS.
    And last i heard WoW and EQ2 both ran up tabs upwards of 100 million dollars for production, and Turbine expects to put out 2 worth while games based on dinesty(spelling?) franchises on pocket change?
    ::::29::::::31::


    Ill settle for them just getting ONE right.

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  • EffectEffect Albrightsville, PAMember UncommonPosts: 949


    3. Turbine is making TWO mmorpgs based on the same 'sword & sorcery' theme... at the same time! DDO and MEO! No other game company has ever, ever, attempted to do such an ... *let me try to be polite here*... inane, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, move! Though EA did come close when they claimed UXO would not be competing with UO, then cancelled UXO claiming it would probably end up compeating with UO.

    I still think UXO was cancelled cause EA moved the section that was developing it from Texas to California as the game was nearing completion(engine and game world were already setup and running great from reports of people that tried it at the one event EA held for the game, as was the quest, battle, etc systems. In fact I think the game was almost done and just needed a few more months before it was canceled since the engine was aleady made and just altered from the Unreal engine) and a large chunk of the development team ended up quiting cause they didn't want to move. Stupid, stupid, stupid, etc move by EA. Then they claim it would be competiing with UO. I have a feeling it was more like "we screwed ourselves over and majority of the development team quit(leads in almost all sections, main producers, lead designer, etc) cause we uprooted that section when the game was almost done and they didn't want to move".

    Still like said, there is already a MEO game. It's called Everquest and Everquest 2. The wood elf city in EQ1 is still amazing I feel. Though it could be one of the most frustrating places when the lifts acted up now and then. I don't get how or why Turbine would want to do another fantasy mmorpg when the ones they have now aren't doing that well. They are just now starting to fix on of the most horrible flaws in AC2, adding NPCs to sell products but even then, its only player made material but still have an empty world. While the settings for MEO and D&DO will be different I still feel that they will suffer from what AC2 suffers from. A great looking world with LOT of nothing it other then monsters.

  • EmbersEmbers LA, CAMember UncommonPosts: 66

    Turbine SECURES $18 MILLION IN FINANCING

    Highland Capital Partners, Polaris Venture Partners and Existing Investors Provide Growth Capital

    WESTWOOD, Mass. ? Dec. 15, 2003 ? Turbine Entertainment Software Corp., a leading developer and publisher of online subscription entertainment, announced today that it raised $18 million in a round of financing from Highland Capital Partners, Polaris Venture Partners and the company?s existing investors. The funding will be used for the continued growth and expansion of Turbine?s award-winning games and entertainment.

    ?The capital provided by Highland and Polaris is a testament to the strength of the online gaming market and the faith they have in Turbine as the leading provider of online subscription entertainment,? said Jeffrey Anderson, president and CEO, Turbine Entertainment Software. ?Both Highland and Polaris are partners who are committed to Turbine?s online games for the long term. Their capital investment will allow us to expand our business into new technologies, territories, markets and platforms.?

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