Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

The problem is too much involvement.

fuzzylogic11fuzzylogic11 Westminster, COPosts: 56Member

My motivation here is to get a discussion going and not just fill the responses with troll posts. Now this is another "where did everything go wrong" post so bear with me while I explain my point. I assume a lot of you are like me and have fond memories of games that have come and gone and most new game just don’t live up to our expectations. I think these expectations are completely community and media created. Our involvement with a game is much earlier than it has ever been, even influencing some of the design aspects. I would argue that this lessens the excitement of the game when you already know the world since you helped shape it. Developers rely too much on what the community wants then coming up with something new and exciting. Now I’m not saying to block out your community completely but take their suggestion with a grain of salt. Make the game you want to make developers, and if you show your passion players will want to play that game.

Comments

  • madazzmadazz A town, ONPosts: 1,564Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fuzzylogic11

    My motivation here is to get a discussion going and not just fill the responses with troll posts. Now this is another "where did everything go wrong" post so bear with me while I explain my point. I assume a lot of you are like me and have fond memories of games that have come and gone and most new game just don’t live up to our expectations. I think these expectations are completely community and media created. Our involvement with a game is much earlier than it has ever been, even influencing some of the design aspects. I would argue that this lessens the excitement of the game when you already know the world since you helped shape it. Developers rely too much on what the community wants then coming up with something new and exciting. Now I’m not saying to block out your community completely but take their suggestion with a grain of salt. Make the game you want to make developers, and if you show your passion players will want to play that game.

    Agreed 100%. Been saying nearly the same thing for quite some time now.

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by fuzzylogic11
    My motivation here is to get a discussion going and not just fill the responses with troll posts. Now this is another "where did everything go wrong" post so bear with me while I explain my point. I assume a lot of you are like me and have fond memories of games that have come and gone and most new game just don’t live up to our expectations. I think these expectations are completely community and media created. Our involvement with a game is much earlier than it has ever been, even influencing some of the design aspects. I would argue that this lessens the excitement of the game when you already know the world since you helped shape it. Developers rely too much on what the community wants then coming up with something new and exciting. Now I’m not saying to block out your community completely but take their suggestion with a grain of salt. Make the game you want to make developers, and if you show your passion players will want to play that game.

    In short, You have 2 camps:

    1. Give the people what they want its good for biz+makes the communtiy "happy".
    2. Let the designers fulfil their vision by creating a world they want.

    Now personally, I think they should design a good product according to the vision. if you like what their selling pick it up and buy it, if not don't.

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • MaelwyddMaelwydd CrawleyPosts: 1,123Member
    Originally posted by madazz
    Originally posted by fuzzylogic11

    My motivation here is to get a discussion going and not just fill the responses with troll posts. Now this is another "where did everything go wrong" post so bear with me while I explain my point. I assume a lot of you are like me and have fond memories of games that have come and gone and most new game just don’t live up to our expectations. I think these expectations are completely community and media created. Our involvement with a game is much earlier than it has ever been, even influencing some of the design aspects. I would argue that this lessens the excitement of the game when you already know the world since you helped shape it. Developers rely too much on what the community wants then coming up with something new and exciting. Now I’m not saying to block out your community completely but take their suggestion with a grain of salt. Make the game you want to make developers, and if you show your passion players will want to play that game.

    Agreed 100%. Been saying nearly the same thing for quite some time now.

    Same here. We used to buy games on word of mouth based on reviews of finished games and friends who had the game, sometimes popin round to watch them play it then go out and buy it ourselves. The game was made according to how the designers vision wanted it to be. If it was well made and fun it was successful, if not it wasn't. Now games get diluted by too many opinions, money people reading these opinions and diluting the original design, and out pops these half baked messes.

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member

    We often forget that we ourselves change.  We can't experience something for the first time again.  We will numb to some experiences which used to excite us, while other experiences will grow into habits we will quickly fall into.  We can play games, but we are not Lost Boys, we cannot join Peter Pan in Neverland and developers cannot stop us from growing up, no matter how much we might want to cling to the moments we crowed.

  • FearumFearum Cinnaminson, NJPosts: 1,166Member Uncommon

    I agree OP. Just looking at the market now, its flooded with games that have listened to the players and you know what it got them? Clone wars and piles of crap. Players don't know what they want, they complain about games being similar and complain if they are different. Its the job of the game dev's to stick with the plan they themselves set out with and do not let naysayers or loud mouths make them deviate from their original plan.

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,467Member Uncommon

    Sorry OP but you are VERY naive to think devs listen to forum users.

    They listen to MONEY and investors and share holders.

    It shoudl be OBVIOUS since MOST of the simple things people ask for are being omitted,pretty mcuh becuase of money.

    graphics/housing/mounts /owning land plots/manipulation ect ect ,games are NOT delivering.

    The design has been 100% the same throughout EVERY game of late>>>>linear questing with a hint of end game,be  it raiding or pvp or both,NOTHING more.FFXI a game released what seems like IONS ago ,is the LAST mmorpg to be different,everything since is a copy cat clone of boredom.


    Samoan Diamond

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon
    Pretty obvious developers haven't been listening to me, if they had there would have been a whole lot more long lasting MMORPGs on the market. ;)

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • CecropiaCecropia Posts: 3,472Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by madazz

    Agreed 100%. Been saying nearly the same thing for quite some time now.

    I'll second that.

    When you have people "following" a game that's in development like a religion for 8 years or so (original Darkfall), you know there's a problem. That isn't something I would describe as healthy or normal. Imagine doing the same thing with a movie or book. Talk about sucking the life out of it.

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member

    I know that just by mentioning this will derail the entire thread but,

    I think Funcom has done a good job at trying different things. Did I say they were successful? Or failures? No.

    I think that they tried unique things within games like AO, AOC, and TSW.

    At least they are willing to take chances. I wish more developers did.

    The day developers stop trying to get WOW numbers is the day MMOs start in a right direction.

    Oh, I'll throw CCP in there too.

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • CastillleCastillle KhobarPosts: 2,703Member Uncommon

    I havent looked into games before its release uch for a while now.   I just know the ones that gets passed around here but I dont really pay attention.  There are lots of good games out there and there are a lot better things to "progress on" imo.

    Edit :

    What I said prolly doesnt work if you play only mmorpgs o.O

    ''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni
    ( o.o)
    (")(")
    **This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**

  • RydesonRydeson Canton, OHPosts: 3,858Member Uncommon
    Devs haven't been listening to me either.. If they had, SWG would still be alive today, and I would be enjoying playing a game for years, not months..
  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    For me the lead up excitement, or hype, isn't a factor. Looking forward to it does not change the game in any way. Should developers pick the "vision" they have? They should as the game would probably be more cohesive than an extension of a communities will buy I agree the say of the people have little real effect. Sure there may be tweaks here and there but not the big decisions.

    If any disconnect happened between what I think should be MMORPGs and what we have now is the design just progressed in another direction. Some of us envisioned a progression of EQ and UO but because of the wider appeal of WoW we ended up with a progression of that. The good news is that design has now stagnated and, IMO, better games are coming that more fit the title.
  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member

    I don't think it's smart to completely ignore a community and just go ahead and follow some vision. Sometimes certain mechanics just doesn't work, then it's up to the community to let the developers know about it.

     

    Otherwise I agree with the general gist of the OP. A developer should never create a game based on what a community want. They should create games based on what they themselves have a passion for (their vision). They should however not completely ignore valuable feedback

  • allendale5allendale5 kansas city, MOPosts: 124Member

    I don't know if developers actually change any key elements of the game based on community feedback.  I feel that the developers need the community more than the community needs them -- for beta testing and the like.

    I actually would love to see a player driven and designed game -- one that is organic in it's secondary elements and has our continuous input.  Mostly what happens is that we get used for stress testing and then ignored after the subs start pouring in, except for bugs.

  • risenbonesrisenbones Galesburg, ILPosts: 194Member

    Nope the problem is MMO's are in that weird place of almost being mainstream while also being still quite niche.  We have WOW which is leading the way but it's getting pretty long in the tooth so while it still maintains some very impressive numbers it seems that each expansion patch brings in an extra million accounts then a few months later loses 2 million.  Unfortunatly evan with "only" 8 million playing it it blows the competion out of the water who if they are lucky peak at a couple of million before settling down with less than 500 thousand within 6 to 12 months.  (I said if they were lucky most don't do that well).

     

    Then we look around this site and lets be honest we arn't exactly an easy bunch to get along with.  I t seems most of us come from games like UO or Everquest or AO or DAOC or SWG.  Games we stopped playing years ago usually because of some sort of expansion that happened to not coincide with the direction we thought the game should of gone in.  We may evan try some of the new games butare blinded by what we thought we had with the old versions of these old games and we just can't seem to let go of these false memories of how good it all was before expansion X.  As an example take UO for me the greatness of that game was about what you could be you didn't have to be a combat character you couldbe nearly anything from a fisherman to a blacksmith or a prospector or an animal trainer but you couldn't be all of them at the same time.  However to hear people speak of the game now you would be forgiven for thinking it's only feature was 2 weeks to get a decently skilled character and then PvP the whole day long.  Now yes you could do that but in all honesty that was actually such a small prt of it and why I think games like Darkfall who claim they are the 3D UO have missed the whole idea of UO.  Darkfall to me is much closer in spirit to another decent game from the past now sadly no longer with us Shadowbane about all thats different between Shadowbane and Darkfall is Darkfall has the  skill system (UO like but again missed the point of UO's skill system entirely) while Shadowbane had classes.  So evan what we once called sandbox has become diluted to the point where everyone seems only to focus on PvP or combat and forgets the world community side of the equation. that made the early sandbox games great.

    The producers would like to pont out the previous pargraph is an opinion your milage with it may vary.

     

    As to the themepark style of game  I feel the problem lies simply in the fact no mattter how great a story you lay out in an MMO eventually several thousand people are going to do the exact same story and every one ends up as pretty much the exact same in the end if they plug away at the "endgame" for long enough and in the end it all just seems fairly pointless.  Now don't get me wrong I do enjoy jumping into a themepark every now and then to check out the rides the devs have set up in bits and peices it's good fun it's just after a while the story pushes the idea of heroics and well I just don't feel it because I go where thousands of others have gone before and when everyone you meet is a hero then it kind of defeats the purpose.

    Again the producers would like to highlight the above paragraph as an opinion.

    The lesser of two evils is still evil.

    There is nothing more dangerous than a true believer.

Sign In or Register to comment.