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What happened to AoE mob grinding?

gut1337gut1337 LinolnshirePosts: 7Member
Mob grinding has taken the backseat when it comes to EXP gain in the current mmo market. The mistress on the side that slowly ticks up your shiny EXP bar. While you(the hero) have the privilege of running from quest hub to quest hub becoming the spangly new rentboy of each appropriately spaced apart village. Not so far that you get bored of running and not so close that obtaining a mount would seem pointless.

So when you do reach each new oasis, a paradise of EXP, you get the pleasure of fetching each brightly lit NPC an assortment of ass meat and butt fur from a variety of monsters. I call them monsters but each mmo seems to give us the same boar/wolf/goblin routine that it has become a stagnant predictable shopping list. Then they think oh I know how we could spice up this seeminglessly bland experience throw in some big mobs that need shrinking down with some gizmo, feed a cow or wake up some drunk blokes. But the pinnacle of the quest hub experience is when you look over your journal and see the [PARTY] precursor and you think “oh yea time to solo this bad boy...” and then you do.

Now I want to talk about how it should be done. The very simple, AoE mob grinding extravaganza! On the surface its a simple concept, use a tanky class or possibly a pet to round up 20 mobs ball them into a death pit and “light their asses up”.

Now we get to talk about the juicy stuff what this actually accomplishes from a gameplay point of view. The first 2 things that should pop up instantly is exploration and partying.

Exploration - because you want to find that juicy EXP gold mine.The hidden quid stuffed down the side of a sofa. Take a left then a right, follow the zone wall down about 100 meters swim across the water and you’ll arrive. The mecha of mobs. Camps stuffed to the brim with mouth wateringly tasty EXP morsels.

Partying - because you want that super efficient killing machine that runs on the blood of goblins and the tears of pixies. Trying different combinations of classes balancing your support and healing(2 different things, take notes) against nuking power. Cutting the fat from your party till you’re left with a death squad. Oh look through your meticulously good party organisational skills  you have a spot in your party still.  Hello Mr community I see you hiding there.

Community - because you have a spot left in your party you could invite a low level guild mate, a friend who missed launch by a few days who you could help catch up. Maybe even a person in general chat who would pay for the privilege of being in the mmo equivalent of Inglourious basterds.

Well this has gotten out of hand, maybe I’ll leave it at that for now. Obviously AoE grinding needs a solid massive open world behind it with a good class structure but thats a different topic. As is how it could potentially isolate the solo player. But maybe thats a good thing.

Comments

  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 2,576Member Rare

    To be honest I kind of enjoy AoE mob grinding.

    I used to play Knight Online where it was basically the only way to exp on high levels, it took extremely long to level up. In Lineage II, in the chronicle I used to play, it was also mainly about AoE grind at high levels. I didnt mind back then and I probably wouldnt mind exping like this now as well.

    It was actually quite enjoyable that gaining high level took really long. If you can participate in various activities the game has to offer (like sieges in Lineage II) without being max level, then it is like a benefit on top of classic endgame to have hardly obtainable max level. When you want, you can go and increase your level by some AoE grind at some cool place on the map (like e.g. Lair of Antharas back in L2 the chronicle I spoke of, dont remember which one it was exactly).

    I think that AoE grind is not a dead concept. I believe that quite many ppl actually enjoy it if it makes them stronger. Its a good carrot on a stick which motivates people to play more.

    Usually cash shops in such games make good profit. I remember in Knight Online, if you wanted to level without it taking years, you had to have premium account which cost 35 USD / month. It was like everyone in that game had the premium. Just saying, not that I was a fain of cash shops :).

     

  • apocolusterapocoluster newport news, VAPosts: 1,326Member Uncommon
    I remember doing this in EQ...5 wizzies and a monk...monk pulls to the wizzies and feign deaths and the PB AOEs go off, rinse and repeat  lol

    No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 2,576Member Rare

    In KO, there was a warrior (called provoker / voker), he was used to pull the mobs, then you had buffer who increased HPs of the group and healed, then rogue who was giving swift (+ run speed), then 5 mages who were dealing AoE damage. Cold ones for slowing AoE spells and fire mages for big DPS spells :).

    In Lineage 2 the group structure was better. There were quite many roles people could play. I think the variety was above average comparing to current market.

  • KabaalKabaal Edinburgh, ScotlandPosts: 3,039Member Uncommon
    Even City of Heroes had AoE grind down to a tee. I do miss it but i don't miss the days at a time for a single level some games had.
  • gut1337gut1337 LinolnshirePosts: 7Member
    Originally posted by Kabaal
    Even City of Heroes had AoE grind down to a tee. I do miss it but i don't miss the days at a time for a single level some games had.

     

    I agree there has to be a balance thats why I liked DAOC so much because past 40 you had half dings which just broke up the leveling nicely. The other good thing about AoEing just how powerful it makes you feel, each pull you try to make bigger then the last one until it gets out of hand and you die. Its amplified more if you’re next to another party of players and you’re doubling their xp/min just feels good, like your skill and group preparation pays off.

    This isn’t to say all quests are bad because they definitely have their place but they should be more that epic journey that provides full sets of gear or a shiny weapon.

    Couple this kind of exping with open world PvP and ROG drops and you got me drooling. Oh and throw in some DAOC style spellcrafting system to balance the stats from your awesome ROG drops too.
  • RaysheRayshe London, ONPosts: 1,278Member Uncommon
    Honestly i can not find anything as dull as Grinding mobs. AoE or Otherwise its just boring, Its the type of thing you could write a program to do for you. I really can't agree that it being gone is a bad thing. I would like to actually get into my game not Press 1 and wait for victory.

    Because i can.
    I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
    Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  • DrunkWolfDrunkWolf Posts: 1,257Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by gut1337
    Mob grinding has taken the backseat when it comes to EXP gain in the current mmo market. The mistress on the side that slowly ticks up your shiny EXP bar. While you(the hero) have the privilege of running from quest hub to quest hub becoming the spangly new rentboy of each appropriately spaced apart village. Not so far that you get bored of running and not so close that obtaining a mount would seem pointless.

    So when you do reach each new oasis, a paradise of EXP, you get the pleasure of fetching each brightly lit NPC an assortment of ass meat and butt fur from a variety of monsters. I call them monsters but each mmo seems to give us the same boar/wolf/goblin routine that it has become a stagnant predictable shopping list. Then they think oh I know how we could spice up this seeminglessly bland experience throw in some big mobs that need shrinking down with some gizmo, feed a cow or wake up some drunk blokes. But the pinnacle of the quest hub experience is when you look over your journal and see the [PARTY] precursor and you think “oh yea time to solo this bad boy...” and then you do.

    Now I want to talk about how it should be done. The very simple, AoE mob grinding extravaganza! On the surface its a simple concept, use a tanky class or possibly a pet to round up 20 mobs ball them into a death pit and “light their asses up”.

    Now we get to talk about the juicy stuff what this actually accomplishes from a gameplay point of view. The first 2 things that should pop up instantly is exploration and partying.

    Exploration - because you want to find that juicy EXP gold mine.The hidden quid stuffed down the side of a sofa. Take a left then a right, follow the zone wall down about 100 meters swim across the water and you’ll arrive. The mecha of mobs. Camps stuffed to the brim with mouth wateringly tasty EXP morsels.

    Partying - because you want that super efficient killing machine that runs on the blood of goblins and the tears of pixies. Trying different combinations of classes balancing your support and healing(2 different things, take notes) against nuking power. Cutting the fat from your party till you’re left with a death squad. Oh look through your meticulously good party organisational skills  you have a spot in your party still.  Hello Mr community I see you hiding there.

    Community - because you have a spot left in your party you could invite a low level guild mate, a friend who missed launch by a few days who you could help catch up. Maybe even a person in general chat who would pay for the privilege of being in the mmo equivalent of Inglourious basterds.

    Well this has gotten out of hand, maybe I’ll leave it at that for now. Obviously AoE grinding needs a solid massive open world behind it with a good class structure but thats a different topic. As is how it could potentially isolate the solo player. But maybe thats a good thing.

    yes i miss this, and i know not everybody would agree with me but i also miss the open pvp in games like this. people allways complain about a " reason " to pvp. back in the days the reason was these spots like you explained, fighting over a hunting spot was a real reason to pvp.

    in age of conan there was a wagon that we would break and every mob in the area would come running. we would sit there and grind for hours and hours and the battles would be endless. groups would come to grind the wagon and there would allways be sombody there so the pvp was on. good times....

  • PaRoXiTiCPaRoXiTiC Denison, TXPosts: 585Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by coretex666
    In KO, there was a warrior (called provoker / voker), he was used to pull the mobs, then you had buffer who increased HPs of the group and healed, then rogue who was giving swift (+ run speed), then 5 mages who were dealing AoE damage. Cold ones for slowing AoE spells and fire mages for big DPS spells :). In Lineage 2 the group structure was better. There were quite many roles people could play. I think the variety was above average comparing to current market.

    Please stop talking about KO.... you are gonna make me cry.

    I miss this game. Getting to max level in that game takes a dedicated player and that I was. Had a 83 Mage and a 81 Warrior.

    I do miss the way you level in this game. Yes there are quests, but only to get you some experience. Most of it you had to grind out. I remember countless hours of grinding Harpy with 6 Mages 1 Rogue 1 Healer. Funny thing is it never really gets boring. In fact, mob grinding is actually a lot of fun when you have to have good team play such as in Knight Online.

    Knight Online was the ultimate PvP game and still is to be honest with you. No other game forces you to work together as a team like this game does.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 14,247Member Rare
    gut1337, if you haven't tried it yet, check out Asheron's Call.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • RedempRedemp Absurdly HotlandPosts: 1,041Member Uncommon
    GW2 Had perfect AoE / Mob Grinding ; I leveled alts to 80 in about nine hours doing it.
  • Muerte_XMuerte_X ventura, CAPosts: 104Member

    Fun post, OP.

    I loved AoE mob gringing my neph warlock back in Shadowbane... what ever happened to xping in groups? It was way more social in that you would chat it up in group as you went. And the thrill of pvping for that good xp spot always made it a blast. Were there problems? Of coarse; macro'ers would set up late night and xp away, but it was always a good time to take out a macro on a thief or scout :) Now you have me all filled with nostalgia. And if anyone says rose tinted glasses in this thread, I will find them :0

     

    Often lurking, rarely posting

  • Panther2103Panther2103 Edmonds, WAPosts: 2,855Member Uncommon
    I actually really like AOE grinding in most the games I have played, the main one being Lineage 2. I'm suprised this thread isn't full of the anti grind police, it's kind of nice.
  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 2,576Member Rare

    I am not suprised I met some KO and L2 fans in this thread...AoE mob grinding :)

     

     

     

  • lathaanlathaan viennaPosts: 476Member Uncommon
    as everything else, GW2 has the best aoe grind too - if you want it.
  • Muerte_XMuerte_X ventura, CAPosts: 104Member
    Actually, I never played L2 but might go give it a shot tomorrow... really should have tried it in its hayday but I was on an MMO hiatous at that point.

    Often lurking, rarely posting

  • KenFisherKenFisher Northwest, INPosts: 5,035Member Uncommon
    I always enjoyed group grinds.  One that I find fun is group grinding in public dungeons with difficult mobs.  They're too slow to grind solo, but a decent group can trash the place.  Bad pulls and unexpected respawns keep it interesting.

    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  When I don't understand, I ask.  Such is not intended as criticism.
  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 20,582Member Epic
    I love AOE mob grinding. ONly game I ever did it in was Lineage 2.
  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 2,576Member Rare
    Originally posted by Muerte_X
    Actually, I never played L2 but might go give it a shot tomorrow... really should have tried it in its hayday but I was on an MMO hiatous at that point.

    Be warned, its not the same game as it was in the early chronicles. It was made casual to keep up with current MMOs...

  • gut1337gut1337 LinolnshirePosts: 7Member
    The positivity in this thread is what I love to see. All my fondest memories of mmos were staying up just an “hour” later every night just because the XP group I was in was too good to give up. I made countless friends and enemies but thats what made it so exciting. At any moment your arch nemesis might get ahold of the information that your at X spot grinding away and would set up his own party just to mess with you. Each day you would win and you would lose but boy did the wins feel good especially if they caught you mid pull and you still managed to pull out the big win!

    Competition over grinding spots should make a return and so should being able to “power level” your friends or maybe even an alt because everyone had 2 accounts back then. I just nostalgia'd all over myself.
  • lilreap2k3lilreap2k3 Posts: 337Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    gut1337, if you haven't tried it yet, check out Asheron's Call.

    I second that. AC has it done perfectly. You mow through mobs and get an insane amount of loot that you have to actually look through to find the good stuff. Some mobs can drop 20+ items each.

    If the population were still decent I would still be playing. Such a great game. /sigh

    Playing - Minecraft, 7 Days To Die

    Waiting for - Darkfall: Rise of Agon

  • xeraxxerax LondonPosts: 66Member Uncommon

    I lament the loss of tactics like AoE grind and social xp grind groups.

    So much of what i enjoyed about old style mmos was the clever group tactics and ability to pull off some amazing stuff with a clever plan and solid teamwork. Guess what it was fun!

    Now everything is so limited , AoE that only effects upto 4 or 5 targets, stuns that last 0.1 secs.  There is a proper uniform rate to gain xp set by the designers, a proper rate to gain loot and proper tactics for every boss. If you deviate from the proper its an exploit or it gets patched.

    I do of course understand the need for some balance and restrictions but it needs to be a wide window. It strike me game designers are taking the lazy option. That is its easier to balance games where everything is on a tight window and stats / abilities are marginal. Easier yes, fun for the player, not so much.

     

  • KenFisherKenFisher Northwest, INPosts: 5,035Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xerax
      There is a proper uniform rate to gain xp set by the designers, a proper rate to gain loot and proper tactics for every boss. If you deviate from the proper its an exploit or it gets patched.  

     

    I remember reading news about AOC shortly after release where players were getting banned for grinding bosses for loot.  This was my first exposure to "You're not playing it right" coming from devs.

     

    I remember at the time it struck me as odd.  Killing bosses for loot is an exploit?

     

    The more devs remove freedom, the less I like the games.

     


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  When I don't understand, I ask.  Such is not intended as criticism.
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