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Was the delusion strong with this one...?

FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member

Stumbled across this article.

Interesting read, in the light of recent events...

http://www.vg247.com/2008/10/24/wow-is-the-target-with-the-old-republic-says-lucasarts-and-ea/

Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
.


.
The Return of ELITE !
image

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Comments

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member

    Good find.

     

    AND WOW!

    Both EA and LucasArts have confirmed to VG247 that the target for BioWare’s newly announced Star Wars: The Old Republic is to make an MMO with a larger userbase than World or Warcraft.

    “We have very high expectations for this,” said EA Games president Frank Gibeau, speaking this week at LucasArts’ HQ in San Francisco.

    “Just look at the base of Star Wars fans, plus what BioWare can do. Trust me: we want to win. EA’s reputation is for wanting to win.

    “Our goal is to show that by bringing storytelling to the genre that we can attract an even wider audience. Plus, we have the benefit of this huge brand, which has done very, very well for nearly 30 years.”

     

    Hot damn.

     

    Right up there with:

    E3 2011: BioWare: Old Republic 'will more than compete' with World of Warcraft

    http://www.computerandvideogames.com/306437/bioware-old-republic-will-more-than-compete-with-world-of-warcraft/

     

    Thanks for the link!  Very informative to the mindset when SWTOR was being made.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • Sora2810Sora2810 New Columbia, PAPosts: 567Member
    Well.. At least they were right about blizzard coming in and showing the MMO user-base can grow larger than what EQ's were raking in.

    Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW.
    Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member

    As a result of trying to build a game they thought would appeal to 10+ million people, they created a heartless soul-less husk of a game, in the opinion of many people.  Consider WoW, since that was the target rival for SWTOR.  Does anyone here think Blizzard made WoW with the idea in mind of having 10 million players (or even 1 million)?  I doubt it.  I think they just made a fun game that exploded for reasons they never planned on (and the help of great advertising at the right times).

    If you are a game developer, and you sights are set on dethroning another game rather than making a great and unique game of your own, you are already 3/4 of the way to screwed before you even start writng code!  Get back to making great games, and the people will decide if they want to come and play it.  You cannot copy WoW's success for many reasons, not the least of which is that the market is *completely* different now.

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • RyowulfRyowulf Greensburg, PAPosts: 668Member Uncommon

    What an f'up misread of the market by EA.  Wow + Star Wars + Storytelling = $$$

    What about what the potenial player base wanted?  It doesn't matter we will tell them what they want.

    So now you have servers full of free-bees, hoping you make enough to stay afloat, while WoW laughs at you.

  • mikahrmikahr ZagrebPosts: 1,066Member

    Well, that was 2008, it would make sense if the game launched in....2008.

    Thats one problem with EA: they lack vision and foresight, mostly like all coorporations, they like "cookie cutter" stuff though.

    Like Coca Cola and McD didnt tought them anything. And instead makin Red Bull, they wanted watered down Coca Cola and thought easy money.

    And i firmly believe that game we got is not the game BW wanted to make when they started in 2005, but game that EA+LA wanted to make (well WoW+SW skin+watered down story).

    Anyway, bookmarking this for certain future use :)

  • grimalgrimal Stamford, CTPosts: 2,874Member Uncommon

    Man, you can argue this for a number of huge releases over the past decade.

    Vanguard: everyone thought this was going to be the new king MMO before it launched.  With Brad behind it, no one expected it would be anything less than stellar.

    Tabula Rasa - Richard Garriot's new sci-fi MMO?  The same guy who brought us UO?  Who would have thought it would have closed down so quickly.

    DDO - A DnD MMO?  I think this was another of the first big name established IPs coming to the MMO world.  Most thought it would blow the roof off.  Aftewards, people complained it was more of a lobby game than anything else.

    AoC - Remember those mounted combat videos prior to release?

    Matrix Online - for those around at the time..well....we all know what happened.

    GW1 - "The revolution is here!"  It will be the end of the P2P model.

    GW2 - DEs will change the landscape of MMOs.  It's a paradigm shifting masterpiece.  It will spawn years and years of GW2 clones.  Release day will be a day marked in history.  People will never be able to go back to the MMOs before it.

    and the list goes on and on and on....this really is nothing new.

     

  • Sevenstar61Sevenstar61 Centreville, VAPosts: 1,690Member Uncommon
    Hmmm maybe in a year or two, when SSSP will be released - SWTOR will surpass WoW.image

    image
    Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
    Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
    Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by grimal

    a number of huge releases over the past decade.

    Vanguard:

    Well that juxtaposition was certainly unfortunate.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member
    Originally posted by grimal

    Man, you can argue this for a number of huge releases over the past decade.

    Vanguard: everyone thought this was going to be the new king MMO before it launched.  With Brad behind it, no one expected it would be anything less than stellar.

    Tabula Rasa - Richard Garriot's new sci-fi MMO?  The same guy who brought us UO?  Who would have thought it would have closed down so quickly.

    DDO - A DnD MMO?  I think this was another of the first big name established IPs coming to the MMO world.  Most thought it would blow the roof off.  Aftewards, people complained it was more of a lobby game than anything else.

    AoC - Remember those mounted combat videos prior to release?

    Matrix Online - for those around at the time..well....we all know what happened.

    GW1 - "The revolution is here!"  It will be the end of the P2P model.

    GW2 - DEs will change the landscape of MMOs.  It's a paradigm shifting masterpiece.  It will spawn years and years of GW2 clones.  Release day will be a day marked in history.  People will never be able to go back to the MMOs before it.

    and the list goes on and on and on....this really is nothing new.

     

    This is exactly right, and exactly why I won't be buying another themepark game unless I see something truly mind-blowing. Also, the game company behind it doesn't matter that much.  Blizzard's Titan, for example, is more likely to suck than not, if we are using the past eight years as a guide.

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • RednecksithRednecksith Madison heights, MIPosts: 1,238Member

    See the thing is, when you advertise storytelling as a big part of your MMO... you need to keep the story going! The game is coming up on a year old, and there have been ZERO story content releases. The only thing to come out of EAware since release is a half-baked legacy system, a bunch of crappy instances, and the F2P overhaul.

    My agent is still right at the point she was a year ago, story wise. Sorry, but when your 'big hook' for a game is an ongoing storyline, that's complete bullsh*t. They completely and utterly failed to deliver what was promised.

    You know you're in trouble when games like WoW and Rift outperform your 'story-based MMO' in terms of actual story advancement.

  • OG_ZorvanOG_Zorvan Fresno, CAPosts: 615Member
    Originally posted by grimal

    Man, you can argue this for a number of huge releases over the past decade.

    Vanguard: everyone thought this was going to be the new king MMO before it launched.  With Brad behind it, no one expected it would be anything less than stellar.

    Tabula Rasa - Richard Garriot's new sci-fi MMO?  The same guy who brought us UO?  Who would have thought it would have closed down so quickly.

    DDO - A DnD MMO?  I think this was another of the first big name established IPs coming to the MMO world.  Most thought it would blow the roof off.  Aftewards, people complained it was more of a lobby game than anything else.

    AoC - Remember those mounted combat videos prior to release?

    Matrix Online - for those around at the time..well....we all know what happened.

    GW1 - "The revolution is here!"  It will be the end of the P2P model.

    GW2 - DEs will change the landscape of MMOs.  It's a paradigm shifting masterpiece.  It will spawn years and years of GW2 clones.  Release day will be a day marked in history.  People will never be able to go back to the MMOs before it.

    and the list goes on and on and on....this really is nothing new.

     

    Except there's a flaw in your argument there. Unless you can show us where ANY of those devs proclaimed their game would be bigger than WoW?

    Of course, this thread has put a fly in a lot of the SWToR fans ointment since they can't say "EAware never said they were aiming to beat WoW." like many of them do when this has been brought up before but without the documentation.

    EA CEO John Riccitiello's on future microtransactions: "When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip, and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you're really not very price sensitive at that point in time...We're not gouging, but we're charging."

  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member
    Originally posted by Sevenstar61
    Hmmm maybe in a year or two, when SSSP will be released - SWTOR will surpass WoW.image

    Yeah, that is what I also thought.

     

    Until Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous were announced.

     

    BW - too little, too late, as always. They had their chance to finish that SSSP thing BEFORE the revival of the space sim genre.

    Now they stated "it´s far out in the future".

    Do you seriously believe what BW is doing will be remotely close to what David Braben or Chris Roberts are able to pull off?

    lol

    Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

    Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
    .


    .
    The Return of ELITE !
    image

  • DeniZgDeniZg ZagrebPosts: 668Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by FromHell
    Originally posted by Sevenstar61
    Hmmm maybe in a year or two, when SSSP will be released - SWTOR will surpass WoW.image

    Yeah, that is what I also thought.

     

    Until Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous were announced.

     

    BW - too little, too late, as always. They had their chance to finish that SSSP thing BEFORE the revival of the space sim genre.

    Now they stated "it´s far out in the future".

    Do you seriously believe what BW is doing will be remotely close to what David Braben or Chris Roberts are able to pull off?

    lol

    If, by using some sorcery, BW (EA) manages to implement all the features from WoW, which are missing in SWTOR, then yes, it might surpass it. And it's a big if (even using sorcery to upgrade the game) since the bad rep of SWTOR can not simply dissapear.

    I opted for clueless. They did not have a clue on what is needed to create WoW killer. Otherwise they would have used their funds differently.

     

  • KonfessKonfess Dallas, TXPosts: 956Member Uncommon
    The problem is that Devs don’t play MMOs let alone their own games. They don’t know what is fun. They assumed that the player base of their games was there for the story and little else.

    Here is what they knew. In KoTOR 1, they had a single player game that forum posts led them to believe had years of replay ability. Both EA and BW assumed this was due to the story. In fact this was despite the story and level cap both. The story had two endings but the player base was still playing the game years later. I have both KoTOR 1 & 2 installed on my machine to this day and play them both every year. Now here is the part they refused to wrap their head around, once you play through the story once you are done with it. The years of replayability comes from every other feature in the game besides story. KoTOR 1 had no crafting as MMO players have come to expect from online RPGs. But it did have combat with cool glowy swords.

    KoTOR games have always been built upon a trinity group system. But EA & BW thought they could do away with that. The largest game player base in history favors a trinity system. The few, less than a minority, who don’t want the trinity system are not the audience of any MMO developer and must be ignored.

    Longevity of an MMO is due to variety of gear and class builds. Players come back to games and replay them for the “What if I do this factor.” SWTORs gear felt limited. Every 10 levels there was a single armour set to get, with you class prefered skill stats. Little or no true variety.

    Making an MMO soloable with companions? This should never be done. There are pet classes, but pets should not be given to everyone to eliminate grouping. When the player base asked if they can solo your game you say, “Yes, once you outlevel the quest content you can come back and solo any quest.”

    The decision makers of most failed games do not play their games so they are blind to the lack of fun in their games. Only once these people start playing their product with fun in mind. Clearly only one game has brought fun to the table for the past 7+ years.

    Pardon any spelling errors
    Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
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    As if it could exist, without being payed for.
    F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.

  • LatronusLatronus Lexington Park, MDPosts: 692Member
    Originally posted by grimal

    Man, you can argue this for a number of huge releases over the past decade.

    Vanguard: everyone thought this was going to be the new king MMO before it launched.  With Brad behind it, no one expected it would be anything less than stellar.

    Tabula Rasa - Richard Garriot's new sci-fi MMO?  The same guy who brought us UO?  Who would have thought it would have closed down so quickly.

    DDO - A DnD MMO?  I think this was another of the first big name established IPs coming to the MMO world.  Most thought it would blow the roof off.  Aftewards, people complained it was more of a lobby game than anything else.

    AoC - Remember those mounted combat videos prior to release?

    Matrix Online - for those around at the time..well....we all know what happened.

    GW1 - "The revolution is here!"  It will be the end of the P2P model.

    GW2 - DEs will change the landscape of MMOs.  It's a paradigm shifting masterpiece.  It will spawn years and years of GW2 clones.  Release day will be a day marked in history.  People will never be able to go back to the MMOs before it.

    and the list goes on and on and on....this really is nothing new.

     

    I agree with everything you said, but would like to point out that not everyone thought Vanguard was going to huge.  A ton of us in closed beta knew it was flawed and saw the train wreck coming.  It could have been great, but then how many games that have released in the past few years can say the same exact thing.

    image
  • grimalgrimal Stamford, CTPosts: 2,874Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Latronus
    Originally posted by grimal

    Man, you can argue this for a number of huge releases over the past decade.

    Vanguard: everyone thought this was going to be the new king MMO before it launched.  With Brad behind it, no one expected it would be anything less than stellar.

    Tabula Rasa - Richard Garriot's new sci-fi MMO?  The same guy who brought us UO?  Who would have thought it would have closed down so quickly.

    DDO - A DnD MMO?  I think this was another of the first big name established IPs coming to the MMO world.  Most thought it would blow the roof off.  Aftewards, people complained it was more of a lobby game than anything else.

    AoC - Remember those mounted combat videos prior to release?

    Matrix Online - for those around at the time..well....we all know what happened.

    GW1 - "The revolution is here!"  It will be the end of the P2P model.

    GW2 - DEs will change the landscape of MMOs.  It's a paradigm shifting masterpiece.  It will spawn years and years of GW2 clones.  Release day will be a day marked in history.  People will never be able to go back to the MMOs before it.

    and the list goes on and on and on....this really is nothing new.

     

    I agree with everything you said, but would like to point out that not everyone thought Vanguard was going to huge.  A ton of us in closed beta knew it was flawed and saw the train wreck coming.  It could have been great, but then how many games that have releaseed in the past few years can say the same exact thing.

    Well sure, if you were in the beta for any of these, you were able to see it first and look past the hype.  Some were much easier to assess (Vanguard, specifically).  But then there were those that played the beta and the developers made sure the beginning parts were as polished as could be (AoC, GW2).

    I think you are right.  Vanguard wasn't going to be huge in terms of WoW-type success, but people were definitely looking at it as something really that mattered.  But if you were in the beta ( I was also) you definitely could see firsthand what an absolute technical mess the game was in.

  • grimalgrimal Stamford, CTPosts: 2,874Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by OG_Zorvan
    Originally posted by grimal

    Man, you can argue this for a number of huge releases over the past decade.

    Vanguard: everyone thought this was going to be the new king MMO before it launched.  With Brad behind it, no one expected it would be anything less than stellar.

    Tabula Rasa - Richard Garriot's new sci-fi MMO?  The same guy who brought us UO?  Who would have thought it would have closed down so quickly.

    DDO - A DnD MMO?  I think this was another of the first big name established IPs coming to the MMO world.  Most thought it would blow the roof off.  Aftewards, people complained it was more of a lobby game than anything else.

    AoC - Remember those mounted combat videos prior to release?

    Matrix Online - for those around at the time..well....we all know what happened.

    GW1 - "The revolution is here!"  It will be the end of the P2P model.

    GW2 - DEs will change the landscape of MMOs.  It's a paradigm shifting masterpiece.  It will spawn years and years of GW2 clones.  Release day will be a day marked in history.  People will never be able to go back to the MMOs before it.

    and the list goes on and on and on....this really is nothing new.

     

    Except there's a flaw in your argument there. Unless you can show us where ANY of those devs proclaimed their game would be bigger than WoW?

    Of course, this thread has put a fly in a lot of the SWToR fans ointment since they can't say "EAware never said they were aiming to beat WoW." like many of them do when this has been brought up before but without the documentation.

    ANET did imply such things....as for the others, I'd really need to go and see if the developers actually said anything specifically and on the record.   However, the hype for these other games from the community and media definitely suggested this.

    But these are just a few examples of recent titles in this genre.  This goes beyond video games and spreads to every consumer product well before our time.

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148 1, NJPosts: 6,690Member
    You have to learn to crawl before you can walk and well they simply got ahead of themselves like most mmos do.
    30
  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    The same type of user hype is going on with Archage, Wildstar, etc. It will be interesting to see if the fans hyping these games will turn around and get nasty and mean like they did with SWTOR and what is going on with GW2.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • grimalgrimal Stamford, CTPosts: 2,874Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by botrytis
    The same type of user hype is going on with Archage, Wildstar, etc. It will be interesting to see if the fans hyping these games will turn around and get nasty and mean like they did with SWTOR and what is going on with GW2.

    Most likely.

    I think we, as a community here at MMORPG need to stop getting swept up by all this hype.  Here we are..the dedicated hardcore fans of the genre...and we are getting swept up over and over like a bunch of six year old children.

    If we can really put an end to it, it would stop 90% of all the pointless bickering that happens here....and lead to more fulfilled discussion.

  • ZorgoZorgo Deepintheheartof, TXPosts: 2,226Member
    Originally posted by MindTrigger
    Originally posted by grimal

    Man, you can argue this for a number of huge releases over the past decade.

    Vanguard: everyone thought this was going to be the new king MMO before it launched.  With Brad behind it, no one expected it would be anything less than stellar.

    Tabula Rasa - Richard Garriot's new sci-fi MMO?  The same guy who brought us UO?  Who would have thought it would have closed down so quickly.

    DDO - A DnD MMO?  I think this was another of the first big name established IPs coming to the MMO world.  Most thought it would blow the roof off.  Aftewards, people complained it was more of a lobby game than anything else.

    AoC - Remember those mounted combat videos prior to release?

    Matrix Online - for those around at the time..well....we all know what happened.

    GW1 - "The revolution is here!"  It will be the end of the P2P model.

    GW2 - DEs will change the landscape of MMOs.  It's a paradigm shifting masterpiece.  It will spawn years and years of GW2 clones.  Release day will be a day marked in history.  People will never be able to go back to the MMOs before it.

    and the list goes on and on and on....this really is nothing new.

     

    This is exactly right, and exactly why I won't be buying another themepark game unless I see something truly mind-blowing. Also, the game company behind it doesn't matter that much.  Blizzard's Titan, for example, is more likely to suck than not, if we are using the past eight years as a guide.

    I appreciate your point, but I'm not sure it leads to a 'never' for me. 

    For two reasons:

    1. All advertisers until the end of time will exagerate/hype. I believe it is the duty of consumers to see through this. Therefore, the above statements, I took them all with a grain of salt, and thus enjoyed many of the above titles.

    2. Just because all the parks so far have been Castles and Coasters,, I don't want to miss the  opportunity to visit Six Flags Magic Mountain.

  • FreezzoFreezzo EnschedePosts: 235Member
    They were spot on as to say their intended target with a WoW clone was WoW :D

    "We need men who can dream of things that never were." - John F. Kennedy
    And for MMORPGs ever so true...

  • CyclopsSlayerCyclopsSlayer Minneapolis, MNPosts: 532Member
    The Jobsian Reality Distortion field misfired and rather than making the hordes march in lockstep to their tune, it instead convinced them selves that they could do no wrong as they started the march of lemmings off the nearest cliff.
  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member
    Originally posted by Zorgo
    Originally posted by MindTrigger
    Originally posted by grimal

    Man, you can argue this for a number of huge releases over the past decade.

    Vanguard: everyone thought this was going to be the new king MMO before it launched.  With Brad behind it, no one expected it would be anything less than stellar.

    Tabula Rasa - Richard Garriot's new sci-fi MMO?  The same guy who brought us UO?  Who would have thought it would have closed down so quickly.

    DDO - A DnD MMO?  I think this was another of the first big name established IPs coming to the MMO world.  Most thought it would blow the roof off.  Aftewards, people complained it was more of a lobby game than anything else.

    AoC - Remember those mounted combat videos prior to release?

    Matrix Online - for those around at the time..well....we all know what happened.

    GW1 - "The revolution is here!"  It will be the end of the P2P model.

    GW2 - DEs will change the landscape of MMOs.  It's a paradigm shifting masterpiece.  It will spawn years and years of GW2 clones.  Release day will be a day marked in history.  People will never be able to go back to the MMOs before it.

    and the list goes on and on and on....this really is nothing new.

     

    This is exactly right, and exactly why I won't be buying another themepark game unless I see something truly mind-blowing. Also, the game company behind it doesn't matter that much.  Blizzard's Titan, for example, is more likely to suck than not, if we are using the past eight years as a guide.

    I appreciate your point, but I'm not sure it leads to a 'never' for me. 

    For two reasons:

    1. All advertisers until the end of time will exagerate/hype. I believe it is the duty of consumers to see through this. Therefore, the above statements, I took them all with a grain of salt, and thus enjoyed many of the above titles.

    2. Just because all the parks so far have been Castles and Coasters,, I don't want to miss the  opportunity to visit Six Flags Magic Mountain.

    It's not a matter of hype for me.  I've been doing this long enough that I've just assumed the money I spend will be a loss, until proven otherwise.  However, there have been enough themepark MMOs that failed to keep me interested that I will no longer give them the benefit of the doubt. 

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • RydesonRydeson Canton, OHPosts: 3,858Member Uncommon

    Funny read..

    Talk about some serious Kool Aid drinking.. lol  I can't believe they bought their own hype..

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