Easiest way to explain is through analogy. If I decide I want to play golf for a few hours and I get out to the course, am having a good time and suddenly someone runs up to me a forces me to play tennis, I'm not having fun anymore. I don't want to play tennis. If I did want to play tennis, I would go to the tennis courts, not the golf course.
For those that may need an explanation, PvE and PvP are different games. It's acknowledged within the OP that they are fundamently different. I equate golf to PvE, as it can be a single player game or a team based game. You can compare score, but you are never really directly influencing the gameplay of anyone else. Tennis is PvP because you are directly competing with someone and your actions are chosen to cause the opponent to lose. If it was possible to be forced to play tennis while playing golf, I imagine golf would be a much less popular sport.
Just because someone doesn't want to play your game does not make you better than them. It does not make them scared of you or your game. It does not make you hardcore. It does not make them a carebear. If you want to be "hardcore" and do something competitive that people may be afraid of doing or may make people afraid of you, take up competitive fighting of some sort. Video games are not the correct venue for you to accomplish what you seem to hope to accomplish.
This analogy can only be applied if you regard mmos as "lobbies" or "clubs" where a bunch of players gather to play some e-sports or minigames at will. I regard mmos more as "virtual worlds" where there is dangers, war, political disputes, disputable resources, economics and social challenges.
I dont see sense, in a world, in recriminating a country, a realm, a feudal lord, faction or rogue groups by "forcing" war into us, i see them like dangers to be combated or avoided, a challenge.
You can see it how ever you want, but the fact remains that it's a game, just like golf or tennis. It's a massive multiplayer online roleplaying GAME. People play games for entertainment. If you want to play a game that is more like a "dangerous virtual world", that's your choice. I assume that is what entertains you. However, your preference is no more valid than someone else's preference for a PvE oriented experience devoid of PvP.
The problem arises only when these 2 different mindsets are put together to dictate the ruleset and features of a mmo...
As YOU said, pve isn't made by killing mobs for fun, but killing mobs to obtain things, and my quoted phrase refers to the fight itself excluding the rewards.
I think killing mobs, just for the sake of killing mobs, is very fun. That's half the reason people play shooters, just to kill things. They rarely ever get something special for each mob they kill, it's the joy of mowing down enemies that they want, not the rewards that they get for doing so.
So you disagree with Loktofeit. Quote and answer to him so.
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The problem arises only when these 2 different mindsets are put together to dictate the ruleset and features of a mmo...
So you disagree with Loktofeit. Quote and answer to him so.