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Advice on new machine for gaming

VolenibbletsVolenibblets London, LAPosts: 212Member Uncommon

Keen to invest in a new system after much aggravation trying to play Planetside 2 with 3fps or so in any decent fights and something similar in WvWvW in GW2

Trying to keep to around the 650 quid zone and, so far, I like the look of this machine from overclockers:

 

"Titan 8100a Xenomorph" AMD A10-5800K 3.80GHz @ 4.40GHz DDR3 2133MHz System - Quad Core 

 

- Case: Antec 300 Gaming Case - Black (default choice, options available) w/ x2 Green LED Fans
- Power Supply: PC Power & Cooling 600w PSU
- CPU: AMD A10-5800K 3.80GHz @ 4.40GHz Quad Core APU
- Motherboard: Gigabyte F2A85X-UP4 (Socket FM2) DDR3 Motherboard 
- Cooler: Prolimatech Panther CPU Cooler
- RAM: Patriot Viper 3 "Red Venom" 8GB DDR3 PC3-15000C11 1866MHz @ 2133MHz Dual Channel 
- Hard Drive: 500GB HDD
- Graphics Card: Onboard AMD HD 7660D 800MHz @ 1000Mhz Graphics (DX11 graphics card options available)
- Sound: Onboard 7.1 Audio 
- Optical Drive: OcUK 24x DVD+/-RW SATA Drive

with the 3 gig Sapphire HD 7950 gfx card option 

WEBSITE LINK: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FS-300-OE

 

£684 total

Can anyone spot anything glaringly obviously wrong with it before I toss my money down the digital sinkhole?

Slightly worried there's no reviews on it on the site but it could be too recently posted for that. 

 

 

 

 

Comments

  • VrikaVrika FinlandPosts: 2,576Member Uncommon

    Nothing wrong with that system, but I'd recommend getting also a SSD if you can affort it. SSD won't increase FPS so it isn't necessary, but it makes loading times so much faster that the computer becomes a lot more comfortable to use.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    You can build a much much better pc yourself for that money.

    It's not a gaming card at all with that system, and the processor isn't much cop either.

    Even so, I've found this prebuilt machine for less money that is more powerfull
    http://www.cclonline.com/category/202/Desktop-PCs/Desktop-PCs/All-CCL-Desktops/attributeslist/1175003/

    But even then the gpu is a bit poor, but still better than the one in your list.

    If you build your own
    You could build something like i5 2500k, 7850 gpu, 8gb ddr3, nice fast hd like a spin point for under £600

    An option for going cheaper is the new new AMD chips like the 6300 and 8350 which bench simmilar to the 2500k and 3570k respectively for most games, but.... be prepared for disappointment with the odd game that is highly optimised for Intel.

    Gpu wise on a new machine you should be looking at amd 7850 or nvidia 660gtx as a minimum.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Oh wait I see it has a 7950 upgrade. In which case not a bad deal at all. Except for while the gpu is high end, you won't get the most out of it as the cpu is a limiting factor.
  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,288Member Uncommon

    as onboard graphics are pretty much a none option for gaming of almost any kind, i'd give it a miss. might want to check up on some of the pc's at novatech, given that your also in the UK.

    http://www.novatech.co.uk/pc/range/novatechblacknti34.html

     

  • VolenibbletsVolenibblets London, LAPosts: 212Member Uncommon

    Thanks for taking the time to give the expert advice fellas, very kind of you! 

    Right, reckon I'll go with that and a slightly not as good 2 gig gfx card and chuck in an SSD as recommended, bringing it up to £690. 

    Tbh I'm not that bothered if the cpu isn't absolutely primo top of the range, I just want to be able to play things like PS2 and GW2 without wanting to chew my keyboard in frustration ;-) 

  • VolenibbletsVolenibblets London, LAPosts: 212Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Phry

    as onboard graphics are pretty much a none option for gaming of almost any kind, i'd give it a miss. might want to check up on some of the pc's at novatech, given that your also in the UK.

    http://www.novatech.co.uk/pc/range/novatechblacknti34.html

     

    Aye true, I added in a better gfx card in the options

     

    Ooh that Novatech machine looks nice...

     

    Only slight worry is the 1gb gfx card, I read somewhere that at least 2 gig was recommended for some of the heavier games these days?

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,765Member Uncommon

    I think you're missing the point of the relevant hardware, and thus spending money in the wrong places.

    The purpose of AMD Trinity (A-series processors) is the integrated graphics.  More to the point, it's integrated graphics that are good enough for gaming, and competitive with what you'd expect from a $60 discrete card.  That's great if you're on a severe budget and letting you skip the discrete card saves you money.  But it's completely wasted if going to use the discrete video card and not going to use the integrated graphics.

    If you're going to get a discrete card anyway, then you're far better off with an AM3+ Vishera platform instead.  Try an FX-6300 CPU with a cheaper AM3+ motherboard and you've got better performance for cheaper.

    Also, you're putting way too much money into the CPU cooler and motherboard.  It seems like it's overclocking for the sake of overclocking.  Particularly egregious is overclocking the integrated graphics and then using a discrete card instead.  That's money better put into higher end base hardware that doesn't need to be overclocked.

  • VolenibbletsVolenibblets London, LAPosts: 212Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quizzical

    I think you're missing the point of the relevant hardware, and thus spending money in the wrong places.

    The purpose of AMD Trinity (A-series processors) is the integrated graphics.  More to the point, it's integrated graphics that are good enough for gaming, and competitive with what you'd expect from a $60 discrete card.  That's great if you're on a severe budget and letting you skip the discrete card saves you money.  But it's completely wasted if going to use the discrete video card and not going to use the integrated graphics.

    If you're going to get a discrete card anyway, then you're far better off with an AM3+ Vishera platform instead.  Try an FX-6300 CPU with a cheaper AM3+ motherboard and you've got better performance for cheaper.

    Also, you're putting way too much money into the CPU cooler and motherboard.  It seems like it's overclocking for the sake of overclocking.  Particularly egregious is overclocking the integrated graphics and then using a discrete card instead.  That's money better put into higher end base hardware that doesn't need to be overclocked.

    Aha, right back to the drawing board. Not all that confident with building a machine from parts though so I'll have to have a gander for a pre-built system with the specs. Thanks for the info!

  • CleffyCleffy San Diego, CAPosts: 4,623Member Uncommon

    Aside from switching over to an AM3+ board, I don't think you can do any better for 650 quid in the UK.  You can try switching over to Intel, but it will run you 100 to 200 more quid you will need to make up somewhere for no difference in gaming.

    If you are going to play Guild Wars 2, then a current gen CPU is not what you want.  It looks like both recent AMD and Intel CPUs have trouble with Guild Wars 2.  Aiming for an Intel 2500K or Phenom II x6 1100t is probably the better pick just for Guild Wars 2.  Going into the future, I can see piledriver based CPUs to be more appealing as atleast the PS4 looks to use that architecture.  Chances are Microsoft will also go down the AMD route purely for the cost.  One advantage with AMD is their Box Cooler is alot better.

  • RidelynnRidelynn Fresno, CAPosts: 4,163Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Cleffy

    If you are going to play Guild Wars 2, then a current gen CPU is not what you want.  It looks like both recent AMD and Intel CPUs have trouble with Guild Wars 2. 


    What?

    I'd like to know where you come up with this. If it's from the Tom's Hardware GW2 performance review, I'd like to point out they didn't even test newer generation CPUs (because Tom's is lame).

    GW2 scales well with core count (seems 4 cores is the sweet spot). However, I can't find anything that says Ivy performs worse than Sandy, or that Piledriver is worse than Zambezi. If anything, I see the same standard performance benefit at similar clocks that you would expect (about 10-15%).

  • CleffyCleffy San Diego, CAPosts: 4,623Member Uncommon
    I got this mainly from the posts on mmorpg.com in the Hardware forums on people with a 3570k or bulldozer processor getting poor frame rates in WvWvW.  Almost consistently they were newer processors.
  • RidelynnRidelynn Fresno, CAPosts: 4,163Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Cleffy
    I got this mainly from the posts on mmorpg.com in the Hardware forums on people with a 3570k or bulldozer processor getting poor frame rates in WvWvW.  Almost consistently they were newer processors.

    https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/support/tech/FPS-GPU-CPU-Performance-issues-FAQ/first#post588114

    First off, Wv3 is poorly optimzed in general. Most people go in there with the same graphics settings they try to run dungeons at, and the computer chokes when it sees the zerg over the horizon.
    https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/support/tech/WvWvW-Optimization

    There is no reason, and no evidence, that newer generation chips perform worse than -1 generation chips, for either Intel or AMD. As long as you can get 3-4 cores and good single-thread performance on those cores (which does favor Intel, admittedly), the game will run as well as it can be run.

    Ivy has better single-thread performance than Sandy, clock for clock.
    Vishera has better single-thread performance than Zambezi, part for part (they operate at much different clocks).

    I wish I could find a good CPU/GPU comparison for GW2 benchmarks, but everyone just seems to site the same Tom's review (that curiously totally omits Ivy and was out before Vishera)

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,765Member Uncommon

    A sufficiently badly coded game can run poorly on any hardware.

    It would be very hard to benchmark the busier parts of WvWvW, as it depends so heavily on how many players there are around you and what they're doing, which isn't repeatable.  If you've got a 20% margin of error, that can overwhelm hardware differences that you're trying to measure.

  • VolenibbletsVolenibblets London, LAPosts: 212Member Uncommon

    Right, thanks for the advice gents, went with this little beast for £995 from overclockers. Had to click the buy button as fast as possible before I changed my mind :P

    "Ultima 9300i Prism" Intel Core i7 3820 3.60GHz @ 4.20GHz DDR3 Quad
    Core Gaming PC
    Opt Out of FREE AV Software
    No Operating System
    Standard Build Systems - Approximately 5-7 working days
    Networking Not Selected
    Samsung 120GB SSD 840 SATA 6Gb/s Basic - (MZ-7TD120BW)
    Antec 300 Three Hundred Ultimate Gaming Case - Black    1
    24 MONTH WARRANTY - COLLECT & RETURN    1
    Sapphire HD 7950 3072MB PCI-Express Graphics Card (11196-00-20G) with
    FREE FARCRY3, Hitman Absolution, Sleeping Dogs & 20% off MOH
    Warfighter PC Games

  • KabaalKabaal Edinburgh, ScotlandPosts: 3,012Member Uncommon

    Check which version of the Antec 300 case that is as the 7950 might not fit. It doesn't fit in one of our cases, it's one of the newer versions of the 300 but without the side facing hard drive cages.

     

    Edit - just noticed you're getting it all from OCUK now as a prebuilt, in which case it will fit.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,765Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Volenibblets

    Right, thanks for the advice gents, went with this little beast for £995 from overclockers. Had to click the buy button as fast as possible before I changed my mind :P

    "Ultima 9300i Prism" Intel Core i7 3820 3.60GHz @ 4.20GHz DDR3 Quad
    Core Gaming PC
    Opt Out of FREE AV Software
    No Operating System
    Standard Build Systems - Approximately 5-7 working days
    Networking Not Selected
    Samsung 120GB SSD 840 SATA 6Gb/s Basic - (MZ-7TD120BW)
    Antec 300 Three Hundred Ultimate Gaming Case - Black    1
    24 MONTH WARRANTY - COLLECT & RETURN    1
    Sapphire HD 7950 3072MB PCI-Express Graphics Card (11196-00-20G) with
    FREE FARCRY3, Hitman Absolution, Sleeping Dogs & 20% off MOH
    Warfighter PC Games

    That's not what you want for a gaming system.  A lot of important specs are missing from your list, which means it's probably loaded with cheap junk parts.  An aging Sandy Bridge-E system really doesn't make sense as a gaming rig, either, as it's too expensive with no real upside apart from superior CrossFire/SLI support, which you are not using and should not use.  It's a server platform that Intel offers to sell for desktop use--but they charge server (i.e., high) prices for it.

    Also, without an operating system, your computer will not boot when you get it.  If you're capable of fixing that yourself, then you really should build your own.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member

    build your own, you will get a better pc and for less money, where you can ensure all the parts are of decent quality.  also it wont come preloaded with a load of crappy bloatware.

    e.g.

    generic tower case £12.65 http://www.ebuyer.com/108280-casecom-kb-7760-black-atx-midi-tower-case-no-psu-no-case-kb-7760bk

    quality power suppy £70.16 http://www.ebuyer.com/257232-corsair-tx-650w-v2-psu-80plus-bronze-certified-cp-9020038-uk

    8gb ddr3 £30.44 http://www.ebuyer.com/247677-corsair-8gb-ddr3-1600mhz-xms3-memory-cmx8gx3m2a1600c9

    nice fast 1tb HD £56.39 http://www.ebuyer.com/252858-seagate-1tb-barracuda-internal-hard-drive-st31000524as

    win SEVEN £69.99 http://www.ebuyer.com/259863-microsoft-windows-7-home-premium-w-sp1-licence-and-media-1-gfc-02050?utm_source=google&utm_medium=products

    couple of case fans £9.78 http://www.ebuyer.com/340971-arctic-cooling-arctic-f12-120mm-case-fan-afaco-12000-gba01

    AMD 7950 £241.25 http://www.ebuyer.com/411131-powercolor-hd-7950-pcs-3gb-gddr5-boost-state-dvi-dual-mini-displayport-ax7950-3gbd5-2dhppv3  bofore nvidia fans bash, cheapest 670gtx i could find was £290

    intel moterboard £67.85 http://www.ebuyer.com/386271-gigabyte-ga-z77-ds3h-socket-1155-vga-dvi-hdmi-7-1-channel-audio-atx-motherboard-ga-z77-ds3h

    i5 - 3570k £173.87 http://www.ebuyer.com/349029-intel-core-i5-3570k-3-4ghz-socket-1155-6mb-cache-retail-boxed-processor-bx80637i53570k

    a nice SSD £77.68 http://www.ebuyer.com/318421-samsung-128gb-830-series-ssd-kit-mz-7pc128d-eu

    comes to £810.  you could make it cheaper by getting rid of the ssd and lowering the GPU to something like a 660gtx or a hd7850.  you could probably get the slightly cheaper 550w version of the power supply, but i recommend you have leeway so in a few of years time you can add cooling and overclock your system to get more life out of it. you could make it cheaper still by going with AMD motherboard and a fx6300 or fx8350 processor.

  • CleffyCleffy San Diego, CAPosts: 4,623Member Uncommon
    If you buy it from one source you can sometimes get them to assemble it for you with a small fee.  You might be able to get it done like that at overclockers.uk.  Not sure though since shopping at UK computer sites usually gives me a headache.
  • VolenibbletsVolenibblets London, LAPosts: 212Member Uncommon

    Sorry full-ish specs are:

     

    - Case: Antec 300 Three Hundred Ultimate Gaming Case - Black    1
    - Power Supply: PC Power & Cooling 600w PSU
    - CPU: Intel Core i7 3820 3.60GHz Sandybridge - E overclocked to 4.20GHz
    - Motherboard: Gigabyte X79-UD3 Intel X79 (Socket 2011) DDR3 Motherboard 
    - Cooler: Alpenfohn K2 Mount Doom CPU Cooler 
    - RAM: 16GB (4x4GB) 2133MHz C11 DDR3 Quad Channel Kit 
    - Hard Drive: 500GB HDD
    - Graphics Card: Sapphire HD 7950OC 3072MB

    Samsung 120GB SSD 840 SATA 6Gb/s Basic - (MZ-7TD120BW)
    - Sound: Onboard 7.1 Audio 
    - Optical Drive: OcUK 24x DVD±RW SATA ReWriter - Black

    I also get a free copy of windows 7 from work through 'work at home' rights.

    Think it's too late to cancel it, ah well, I probably won't notice the difference in performance, as long as I can play PS2 and GW2 in a relatively seamless way with high settings, I'll be happy and it can play stuff for the next few years I'll be happy.

     

    Oh and AMD-based systems are having a lot of problems with PS2 at the minute which I why I avoided that. 

     

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,795Member Uncommon

    "Best bang for your buck" at the moment.

    Intel i5 3570K (or an overclocked 2500K/2550K if you can find one)

    nVidia GTX 660 or ATI Radeon 7850

    120/128GB SSD

    mid-range ASUS or ASROCK motherboard, no need to spend much here, pick the cheapest that has SLI/Crossfire option, leaving you a good option to upgrade your GFX later by plugging in another one

    ~600W QUALITY power, for example Superflower golden green series

    Everything else, just pick what you want.

     

  • KabaalKabaal Edinburgh, ScotlandPosts: 3,012Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Volenibblets

    Think it's too late to cancel it, ah well, I probably won't notice the difference in performance, as long as I can play PS2 and GW2 in a relatively seamless way with high settings, I'll be happy and it can play stuff for the next few years I'll be happy.

     

     

     

    Full systems usually don't ship for a few days. Stick a web note in on the OCUK site or post in the customer service section of the forum and 5UB will probably sort you out if you want to change things. Been using UCUK for about 8 years and now and they are top notch that way.

  • VolenibbletsVolenibblets London, LAPosts: 212Member Uncommon
    Ah cool, cheers mate, will give it a go
  • Mondo80Mondo80 Newington, CTPosts: 189Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ridelynn

     


    Originally posted by Cleffy

     

    If you are going to play Guild Wars 2, then a current gen CPU is not what you want.  It looks like both recent AMD and Intel CPUs have trouble with Guild Wars 2. 


     

    What?

    I'd like to know where you come up with this. If it's from the Tom's Hardware GW2 performance review, I'd like to point out they didn't even test newer generation CPUs (because Tom's is lame).

    GW2 scales well with core count (seems 4 cores is the sweet spot). However, I can't find anything that says Ivy performs worse than Sandy, or that Piledriver is worse than Zambezi. If anything, I see the same standard performance benefit at similar clocks that you would expect (about 10-15%).

    Same here, I can play GW2 on my 6 yr old pc (pentuim D 3Ghz, 3gb ram and a 9600gt card)

    image

  • Mondo80Mondo80 Newington, CTPosts: 189Member Uncommon
    I seem to have the oddest ability to kill any tread I post in.

    image

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