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What freemium MMO has been a long term success and not end up pay to win?

TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYPosts: 911Member Uncommon

As title says...what pay to play to freemium MMO has had a long term success?

 

So far, its only been Everquest 2. They've even gave MORE features to free players (no more gold limit). Plus, their subscriber count went way up.

 

LOTRO died not too long after going free, it saw a huge boost in population...haven't heard a peep after that. Plus, it and DDO have gone down the pay to win road, so it doesn't really matter if it is still active. Pay to win games are fail and a sign of death.

 

Freemium didn't help Ryzom, but that game was already dead (population wise)

 

Freemium didn't help Age of Conan, that game like LOTRO...saw a large boost of population...never heard of it again.

 

SWTOR went freemium. But it has the most restrictions of any freemium game. It is to see if it is enough to gain subscribers...haven't heard much about it though.

 

Freemium sort of helped Fallen Earth...haven't checked in on it in a while, but it was rather active as of 3-4 months ago. However, the activity hasn't changed at all...it has always been "sort of" active. But it always has been dead population wise, after the first "zone".

 

Probably missing some...but those are the main ones I can think of.

 

So...outside of Everquest 2...any freemium been a long term success? Outside of ones that are recent (like SWTOR). AND if a success, has it gone down the pay to win road (LOTRO/DDO)?

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Comments

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,666Member Uncommon
    • Clone Wars Adventures
    • Free Realms
    • Puzzle Pirates
    • Wizard 101

    Since most subscription MMOs have switched to unlimited trials of some kind, most are freemium at this point.

     

    It seems your measure for success is whether you see an ad for them or not. Do you have some other gauge you are using for your assessment or is that it? For example, accoridng to Funcom's Quarterly Reports, AoC and AO are cashflow positive. The company as a whole probably just needs to stop dicking around with fashion, LEGOs and Pet games.

     

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Any PvE MMOs, since there is no "winning" in them.
  • Vunak23Vunak23 In your house eatin'' your cookies, FLPosts: 635Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Any PvE MMOs, since there is no "winning" in them.

    Except when you dont get invited into Parties/Groups/Raids/Dungeons etc becaues you dont have the key items from the cashop that everyone else has. 

    "In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  • alepxalepx BerlinPosts: 4Member
    Just get into Neocron whats f2p since a while without an shitty itemshop where devs trying to have a last chance of getting cash. Most important part in this game is pvp or playing researchers/constructors.
  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYPosts: 911Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    • Clone Wars Adventure
    • Free Realms
    • Dead, barely gets updated (edit: Well it gets updated, SOE only adds cash shop items. Barely anything else, no content or anything. Been waiting since release for a new land to open...) and the population is no where near what it used to be. 
    • Puzzle Pirates
    • Give you this one. Doing really well last I heard
    • Wizard 101

    Since most subscription MMOs have switched to unlimited trials of some kind, most are freemium at this point.

     

    It seems your measure for success is whether you see an ad for them or not. Do you have some other gauge you are using for your assessment or is that it? For example, accoridng to Funcom's Quarterly Reports, AoC and AO are cashflow positive. The company as a whole probably just needs to stop dicking around with fashion, LEGOs and Pet games.

     

     

    Well lets see...went on AoC, not nearly as populated as it used to be. Population went WAY down. I saw more people in Ryzom than I did in AoC. Then again, maybe the PvP servers are completely dead. In any case, it isn't nearly as active as it used to be.

     

    There is SWTOR,the population has gone way up from before...but that is part of the new freemium offer and every freemium has a huge spike at first. So it could go either way.

     

    Then there is LOTRO/DDO that have gone the pay to win approach. No point in doing dungeons or anything! Just buy everything you could ever need. And people who buy the pay to win items, will of course be invited to groups before those who are trying to earn the items the legit way. Since the payers will have a much bigger advantage in a group.

    image
  • GorweGorwe Ald'RuhnPosts: 2,473Member Uncommon

    I am amazed how nobody mentions Aion when talking bout Freemiums. Oh it has only one of the most liberal(if not the most liberal )approaches.

    Furthermore I'd say LoTR:O/DD:O but they are p2w.

    None other major MMO that I can think of...

  • bizoux86bizoux86 Bangor, PAPosts: 85Member

    Although this game has not really been "long-term" f2p I would say that Aion has shown significant population boost since going to a f2p model. They have also continued with awesome expansions and content since changing their model.  I have played Aion since it first started and continue to play it now - I think it has shown significant improvements in a number of areas: cross-server queues means almost instant pops, fast-track server for leveling much faster than you used to and allows for gank-free questing, whereas normal non-fast track servers are open-world pvp 24/7.  Rifting is back and better than ever! AP is so easy to get now, everyone can get  good pvp weapons/armor/accessories set. And the list goes on and on.

    Main downside since going F2P? So many gold spammers! But at least they are working on this problem actively.

  • BookahBookah Bar Harbor, MEPosts: 259Member
    Originally posted by bizoux86

    Although this game has not really been "long-term" f2p I would say that Aion has shown significant population boost since going to a f2p model. They have also continued with awesome expansions and content since changing their model.  I have played Aion since it first started and continue to play it now - I think it has shown significant improvements in a number of areas: cross-server queues means almost instant pops, fast-track server for leveling much faster than you used to and allows for gank-free questing, whereas normal non-fast track servers are open-world pvp 24/7.  Rifting is back and better than ever! AP is so easy to get now, everyone can get  good pvp weapons/armor/accessories set. And the list goes on and on.

    Main downside since going F2P? So many gold spammers! But at least they are working on this problem actively.

    Yeah AIon is SO much better imo,

    there even planing another free expantion were they are adding 3 new classes! (4.0)

    omfg AIon should be the model for FTP improvments

    image
  • BookahBookah Bar Harbor, MEPosts: 259Member
    Originally posted by Gorwe

    I am amazed how nobody mentions Aion when talking bout Freemiums. Oh it has only one of the most liberal(if not the most liberal )approaches.

    Furthermore I'd say LoTR:O/DD:O but they are p2w.

    None other major MMO that I can think of...

    Yeah I have played most of them and Aion is the most liberal FTP i have come across.

     

    Now is an awesome time to play Aion =)

    Here is what you can expect from low lvl siegeing on the new server, good times.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBvMYn26wA8

    image
  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYPosts: 911Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bookah
    Originally posted by bizoux86

    Although this game has not really been "long-term" f2p I would say that Aion has shown significant population boost since going to a f2p model. They have also continued with awesome expansions and content since changing their model.  I have played Aion since it first started and continue to play it now - I think it has shown significant improvements in a number of areas: cross-server queues means almost instant pops, fast-track server for leveling much faster than you used to and allows for gank-free questing, whereas normal non-fast track servers are open-world pvp 24/7.  Rifting is back and better than ever! AP is so easy to get now, everyone can get  good pvp weapons/armor/accessories set. And the list goes on and on.

    Main downside since going F2P? So many gold spammers! But at least they are working on this problem actively.

    Yeah AIon is SO much better imo,

    there even planing another free expantion were they are adding 3 new classes! (4.0)

    omfg AIon should be the model for FTP improvments

    Wow, if that is true...NCsoft really go all out on the free to play. It isn't like them pulling tug of war with their overlords, saying "please no free! please!" and the other side "FREE! MORE CASH SHOP! PAY TO WIN! MONEY MONEY MONEY!"...which is what it seems like a lot of freemiums are like. Its like, the developers tried their hardest to not actually be free to play and still be pay to play.

     

    Also...why the heck would you want to play a pay to win MMO? That ends up being WAY more expensive than a pay to play MMO...in fact, a lot of these freemiums end up being as much (even if they aren't pay to win), if not more than a pay to play MMO...the price comes out almost the same...especially if you want to use all the classes/rare items and everything. There is almost nothing different, and often ends up costing more...

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  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,666Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vunak23
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Any PvE MMOs, since there is no "winning" in them.

    Except when you dont get invited into Parties/Groups/Raids/Dungeons etc becaues you dont have the key items from the cashop that everyone else has. 

    What MMOs is that happening in?

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYPosts: 911Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Vunak23
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Any PvE MMOs, since there is no "winning" in them.

    Except when you dont get invited into Parties/Groups/Raids/Dungeons etc becaues you dont have the key items from the cashop that everyone else has. 

    What MMOs is that happening in?

    You have a 5 party limit (as an example). You have one slot empty.

     

    You can take someone who bought items in the cash shop, maybe a +4 stat tome, or just a much more powerful item...

     

    Or you can take someone who hasn't bought anything, still trying to earn his way to the top...but doesn't have nearly the amount of gear the first person has, who bought it all.

     

    Who would most people take?

     

    (edit: And to add, this does not take into account if someone is a douche or bad at playing. Since that isn't the point of this example...this assumes both are nice, and know how to play.)

    image
  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member
    Originally posted by bizoux86

    Although this game has not really been "long-term" f2p I would say that Aion has shown significant population boost since going to a f2p model. They have also continued with awesome expansions and content since changing their model.  I have played Aion since it first started and continue to play it now - I think it has shown significant improvements in a number of areas: cross-server queues means almost instant pops, fast-track server for leveling much faster than you used to and allows for gank-free questing, whereas normal non-fast track servers are open-world pvp 24/7.  Rifting is back and better than ever! AP is so easy to get now, everyone can get  good pvp weapons/armor/accessories set. And the list goes on and on.

    Main downside since going F2P? So many gold spammers! But at least they are working on this problem actively.

    Noone mention AIon cause it is f2p not freemium.   Unless you speak about EU freemium Aion servers, but they are not doing so great.

     

    =============

    On topic:

    For me personally there is no succesful & no not p2w one of those I played.  I have not played all of them though.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,666Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TheScavenger
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    • Clone Wars Adventure
    • Free Realms
    • Dead, barely gets updated (edit: Well it gets updated, SOE only adds cash shop items. Barely anything else, no content or anything. Been waiting since release for a new land to open...) and the population is no where near what it used to be. 
    • Puzzle Pirates
    • Give you this one. Doing really well last I heard
    • Wizard 101

    Since most subscription MMOs have switched to unlimited trials of some kind, most are freemium at this point.

     

    It seems your measure for success is whether you see an ad for them or not. Do you have some other gauge you are using for your assessment or is that it? For example, accoridng to Funcom's Quarterly Reports, AoC and AO are cashflow positive. The company as a whole probably just needs to stop dicking around with fashion, LEGOs and Pet games.

    Well lets see...went on AoC, not nearly as populated as it used to be. Population went WAY down. I saw more people in Ryzom than I did in AoC. Then again, maybe the PvP servers are completely dead. In any case, it isn't nearly as active as it used to be.

    There is SWTOR,the population has gone way up from before...but that is part of the new freemium offer and every freemium has a huge spike at first. So it could go either way.

    Then there is LOTRO/DDO that have gone the pay to win approach. No point in doing dungeons or anything! Just buy everything you could ever need. And people who buy the pay to win items, will of course be invited to groups before those who are trying to earn the items the legit way. Since the payers will have a much bigger advantage in a group.

    I think you're putting personal impression ahead of fact and that's coloring your view of this. Here, let's take the one you wrote most about - Free Realms

    "Dead, barely gets updated (edit: Well it gets updated, SOE only adds cash shop items. Barely anything else, no content or anything. Been waiting since release for a new land to open...)"

    June or July saw the addition of Shrouded Gloam and open world combat

    September 12th

    • new zone Sunstone Valley added with new games and content and craftable mounts.

    October 4th

    • new boss drops
    • treasure hunting - pets can now find and dig up treasures
    • new exploration points
    • more quests

    October 11th (content runs until November 14th)

    • Super Spooktacular begins with the return of the halloween quest series and new quests added to it
    • New cash shop items
    • live events

    November 30th (tomorrow!)

    Largest Where's Waldo Picture. Sounds like you play, so hop in! :)

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,666Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TheScavenger
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Vunak23
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Any PvE MMOs, since there is no "winning" in them.

    Except when you dont get invited into Parties/Groups/Raids/Dungeons etc becaues you dont have the key items from the cashop that everyone else has. 

    What MMOs is that happening in?

    You have a 5 party limit (as an example). You have one slot empty.

    You can take someone who bought items in the cash shop, maybe a +4 stat tome, or just a much more powerful item...

    Or you can take someone who hasn't bought anything, still trying to earn his way to the top...but doesn't have nearly the amount of gear the first person has, who bought it all.

    Who would most people take?

    (edit: And to add, this does not take into account if someone is a douche or bad at playing. Since that isn't the point of this example...this assumes both are nice, and know how to play.)

    I didn't ask what type of scenario can you conjure in your mind. ;) I asked which MMOs this was happening in.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • CyclopsSlayerCyclopsSlayer Minneapolis, MNPosts: 532Member
    DDO, Dungeon and Dragons Online.  Their freemium model seems decent. there is little if anything in the shop that there isn't better of in the game. While you do have to purchase dungeon packs to access some content, the content can also be rented by purchase of a cheap single day pass.
  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYPosts: 911Member Uncommon

    (edit: This was originally a quote...and then it wasn't...ah well...)

     

    Ah, so they actually are adding content to Free Realms. I'll admit, I haven't checked it in...since August. It wasn't very active then compared to what I remembered it being. I do know, there was a huge period of...nothingness and cash shop items. I waited for a lot of months to see stuff, and just gave up on waiting. I actually have a lifetime account to it, and it is actually a fun game. 

     

    So I stand corrected. Its good to see SOE putting effort into Free Realms. It does seem SOE does their free to play motto rather well and trying to improve as a company...EQ2 no coin limit...updates to Free Realms...putting effort into Vanguard...Everquest Next. And of course, Planetside 2. Seems SOE has really turned it around. 

     

    So really, I guess it just depends on the company and what they do when they convert from pay to play to freemium. SOE is probably among the best...possibly Aion (but I haven't looked)...and bad companies, like EAware, Funcom and especially Turbine, that have horrible freemiums.

     

    Guess like pay to play MMOs, there is bad/good.

     

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  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Gw1
  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,978Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Any PvE MMOs, since there is no "winning" in them.

    What? Whenever I beat a really hard challenge I win... And whenever I fail at something I loose (or when I just dont have fun).

    Whil PvE games have a bit different rules than PvP you win when you complete your goals, just like in any game. If someone do a raid to get a certain gear they win when they get it. 

    For me both PvP and PvE is about challengs. Ganking some poor noob in a PvP game isnt winning and neither is doing a daily in a PvE game, but beating a hard challenge is always a victory.

  • NevulusNevulus Miami Beach, FLPosts: 1,288Member Uncommon
    Aion & eq2
  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Vunak23
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Any PvE MMOs, since there is no "winning" in them.

    Except when you dont get invited into Parties/Groups/Raids/Dungeons etc becaues you dont have the key items from the cashop that everyone else has. 

    What MMOs is that happening in?

    Every MMO?

    In Vindictus if people don't have 14k ATK you don't get to play, without the cash shop you don't reach 14k, simple as that. Luckily I play with people I know, but don't say it doesn't happen, it happens in every MMO.

     

     

    Same in Everquest1, while you can play for "free", if you don't get a subscription that unlocks your AA and raid items, you don't raid, period, raid guilds do not accept people who play for free, none do.

     

    F2P games are not free, you are limited in F2P games to what exactly is free, and in all games I played except one (street gears) you eventually need to pay money to get access to the rest of the game and to enjoy the game, and you end up spending more in a F2P game than you used to in a traditional P2P game.

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,924Member Uncommon
    Wait... everquest 2 has been fine? Its been the most Pay To WIn game I've seen out there. DDO and LOTRO have at least in game methods to earn credits, EQ2 pretty much limits you on basics like spell ranks and much more. Its one of the WORST models I've seen. DDO has for me seemed to do the best with freemium but its primarily due to its design that it does so. Does give 'advantages' of sorts in what you can run for gear but if your doing that angle you can say the same about every Freemium game out there.
  • JaedorJaedor Denver, COPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon

    No idea why people think LOTRO is P2W. There isn't much you can spend money on that would make a difference at end game. And the game is doing well with a popular recent expansion.

  • elockeelocke Manassas, VAPosts: 4,205Member Uncommon
    I'm sorry OP but I disagree on your choices you gave as examples.  EQ2 to me is the worst of F2P options out there.  I played more when I had to sub then I do with it being F2P.  Charging me to wear gear is a big no no.  Plus I can't EARN my station cash in anyway via in game methods.  In LOTRO on the otherhand, I can earn everything via in game play and the only thing really needed to spend turbine points on is quest packs and expansions, which you can do when you get to them.  Much better option IMHO.  Dead, rofl!!! Riders of Rohan is one of the best expansions I've ever played and many servers are filled with tons of people talking and playing.
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  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,666Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Vunak23
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Any PvE MMOs, since there is no "winning" in them.

    Except when you dont get invited into Parties/Groups/Raids/Dungeons etc becaues you dont have the key items from the cashop that everyone else has. 

    What MMOs is that happening in?

    Every MMO?

    In Vindictus if people don't have 14k ATK you don't get to play, without the cash shop you don't reach 14k, simple as that. Luckily I play with people I know, but don't say it doesn't happen, it happens in every MMO.

    Same in Everquest1, while you can play for "free", if you don't get a subscription that unlocks your AA and raid items, you don't raid, period, raid guilds do not accept people who play for free, none do.

    F2P games are not free, you are limited in F2P games to what exactly is free, and in all games I played except one (street gears) you eventually need to pay money to get access to the rest of the game and to enjoy the game, and you end up spending more in a F2P game than you used to in a traditional P2P game.

    There's that pocket of elitist clowns in every MMO, sub or not. Look at GearScore in WOW. What you cite is the exception in F2P, not the norm, or are you also contesting the fact that only about 10% spend any money at all?

    "In Vindictus if people don't have 14k ATK you don't get to play."

    Don't get to play? Really now? image

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

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