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The amount of people who settle for Instanced PvP Trash simply amazes me.

DauzqulDauzqul Detroit, MIPosts: 1,411Member Uncommon

When did players start to accept the fact that it's okay for PvP to be completely instanced?

EverQuest II's 2006 Nagafen Server was a World PvP Server. It worked.

SWG's PvP was World PvP. It worked.

 

Ever since WoW, PvP has become pure trash. And to make matters worse, "World PvP" has become such a loose term that anything that isn't completely structured  is considered World PvP, e.g., SWTOR's Ilum - a dedicated area for PvP. This isn't World PvP. It's trash.

 

Servers should go like this:

Server #1 PvE (Optional Battlegrounds)

Server #2 PvP (World PvP)

 

I'll tell you why people waste time in these redundant battlegrounds. It's because they are so helpless and consumed with the damn carrot dangling in front of their faces. You want that little piece of reward that everyone will eventually have. It's boring. It's an embarrassment to the genre.

I don't want to see anyone fail. However, it would be a lie to not say I enjoy watching these Instanced PvP games turn into failed FTP games.

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Comments

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,927Member Uncommon

    I feel instanced PvP is a great thing. Open World PvP is just a gank fest and lets face it, something that is just about taking advantage of another player often times who stands no chance. Its a far less 'fair' match which Instanced PvP is able to deliver.

    However...

    Open World PvP i feel is something that really enhances the world. When you can add objectives and other factors it really makes the experience more grand to play through. It gives a sense of 'belonging' when applied to a faction your in or a guild. The biggest issue is when it becomes just for griefing and it suddenly loses its appeal. Corpse camping people is quite a pathetic thing to do and when its involving just mindless ganking players who have no chance, it loses its taste to quickly. 

    I feel its players who just use it to cause grief to other players that has helped to drown out Open World PvP and made it an after thought in so many MMos for people. The fact it is abused in such a way just leaves a foul after taste in people's mouths that just makes it so unpopular.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,788Member Uncommon
    What I don't understand is why people settle for world PVP trash in which winning is determined almost entirely by level, gear, and how many people your side has in the area, with very little impact from what you actually do in combat.
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,284Member Uncommon

    You need both. Instanced pvp by itself is a huge design fail.

     

    Swtor, TSW, and GW2 are all suffering because they decided to leave Wpvp out. 

  • SatchoSatcho MontevideoPosts: 33Member Common
    Originally posted by mmoDAD

    When did players start to accept the fact that it's okay for PvP to be completely instanced?

    EverQuest II's 2006 Nagafen Server was a World PvP Server. It worked.

    SWG's PvP was World PvP. It worked.

     

    Ever since WoW, PvP has become pure trash. And to make matters worse, "World PvP" has become such a loose term that anything that is isn't completely structured and even is considered World PvP, e.g., SWTOR's Ilum - a dedicated area for PvP. This isn't World PvP. It's trash.

     

    Servers should go like this:

    Server #1 PvE (Optional Battlegrounds)

    Server #2 PvP (World PvP)

     

    I'll tell you why people waste time in these redundant battlegrounds. It's because they are so helpless and consumed with the damn carrot dangling in front of their faces. You want that little piece of reward that everyone will eventually have. It's boring. It's an embarrassment to the genre.

    I don't want to see anyone fail. However, it would be a lie to not say I enjoy watching these Instanced PvP games turn into failed FTP games.

    /standing_ovation

  • dimnikardimnikar ZanistanvillePosts: 271Member

    It's more than a little arrogant to paint instanced PVP as trash considering 99,999% of *ALL* pvp is done this way. This includes every multiplayer game, ever.

    It just works and makes a lot of sense in so many ways.

    That's not to say persistent world PVP can't be good, it just isn't the only answer to the pvp question, not by any stretch.

  • JonokuJonoku Cool, PAPosts: 645Member
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    What I don't understand is why people settle for world PVP trash in which winning is determined almost entirely by level, gear, and how many people your side has in the area, with very little impact from what you actually do in combat.

    Thanks for the laughs, I've seen a small group defeat the odds of numbers. Level or gear? people need to learn to get their gear and max level before participating in endgame content such as OPvP, its a joke to enter at level 5 with level 5 gear, no one does that........

    "Quality Over Quantity."

    All friendly opinions here but I agree with OP, instanced PvP is pure trash.

    Looking at: The Repopulation
    Preordering: None
    Playing: Random Games

  • PsychowPsychow SF Giants Territory, CAPosts: 1,784Member
    Am I to understand that anything that isn't done like it was in SWG is trash?
  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon

    Incredibly ignorant and horribly stated argument. The fact that you don't like it doesn't mean its trash. Some people like a good balanced pvp fight, they don't need rewards just getting in there and pvping on a balanced field.

     

    The same could also be said about OWPVP. There are folks who love it because it has "meaning", they like that constant threat or like to go hunt others. But we could do like you are doing and call it trash because it's basically just a gankfest, right? NO!

     

    Different pvp for different tastes, deal with it.

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  • JonokuJonoku Cool, PAPosts: 645Member
    Originally posted by bcbully

    You need both. Instanced pvp by itself is a huge design fail.

     

    Swtor, TSW, and GW2 are all suffering because they decided to leave Wpvp out. 

    at least GW2 feels massive in their PvP.

    Looking at: The Repopulation
    Preordering: None
    Playing: Random Games

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully

    You need both. Instanced pvp by itself is a huge design fail.

     

    Swtor, TSW, and GW2 are all suffering because they decided to leave Wpvp out. 

    Don't agree. If done correctly an MMO can thrive only on instanced pvp. Many other genres basically count on it, the same can be done for MMOs. The problem is many/most hardcore mmo fans(like the ones that come here) just want OWPvP and feel like instanced PvP is some sort of taboo for MMOs.

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  • PrenhoPrenho AracajuPosts: 298Member
    The problem is that pvp in games like wow is pure trash, there is no consequence, no reasons and no objectives for owpvp, it is just random ganking randoms, people just think that an OW pvp game, where there are consequences and objectives(like Lineage), has the same random gank garbage like WoW and its clones.
  • someforumguysomeforumguy HomePosts: 3,543Member Uncommon

    I don't think the both are comparable apart from it being player vs player.

    I really like that in instanced PVP, you can create a level field where only playerskill counts. Or even better, individual playerskill, teamskill and tactics. That can be epic (GW1 GvG). In this case, badly designed skills for pvp destroys the fun for me.

    But this has nothing to do with how I can like open world PVP. I loved EVE PVP (just PVP is just not enough for me to play it anymore). In a scenario like that I don't care much for 1vs1 balance. Open world PVP is war, balance is something that has nothing to do with it. What can spoil it for me here, is griefing. Respawn camping or new players having no protection. So basically, bad game design. EVE is one of the few games that does open world PVP right imo.

    Anyway, I can enjoy both PVP types immensely, depending on how they are implemented.

  • JonokuJonoku Cool, PAPosts: 645Member
    Originally posted by Prenho
    The problem is that pvp in games like wow is pure trash, there is no consequence, no reasons and no objectives for owpv, it is just random ganking randoms, eople just think that a OW pvp game, where there are consequences(like Lineage), has the same random gank garbage like WoW and its clones.

    Gotta be joking, I remember when you pvp'd once you die, people could loot u, when you die you gotta try to walk back to take your stuff back before they do.....your fatigue drops, gotta pay the doctor to fix you up, spawn point distance gotta walk all the way back. Objectives: destroy enemy bases, protect cities from being attacked. Obviously its not just pure fighting.

    So there aren't consequences and reason and objectives to fight for? I enjoyed your post :)

    Looking at: The Repopulation
    Preordering: None
    Playing: Random Games

  • PrenhoPrenho AracajuPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by Jonoku
    Originally posted by Prenho
    The problem is that pvp in games like wow is pure trash, there is no consequence, no reasons and no objectives for owpv, it is just random ganking randoms, eople just think that a OW pvp game, where there are consequences(like Lineage), has the same random gank garbage like WoW and its clones.

    Gotta be joking, I remember when you pvp'd once you die, people could loot u, when you die you gotta try to walk back to take your stuff back before they do.....your fatigue drops, gotta pay the doctor to fix you up, spawn point distance gotta walk all the way back. Objectives: destroy enemy bases, protect cities from being attacked. Obviously its not just pure fighting.

    So there aren't consequences and reason and objectives to fight for? I enjoyed your post :)

    In Lineage, only pk players can lose items if they die.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,788Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jonoku
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    What I don't understand is why people settle for world PVP trash in which winning is determined almost entirely by level, gear, and how many people your side has in the area, with very little impact from what you actually do in combat.

    Thanks for the laughs, I've seen a small group defeat the odds of numbers. Level or gear? people need to learn to get their gear and max level before participating in endgame content such as OPvP, its a joke to enter at level 5 with level 5 gear, no one does that........

    "Quality Over Quantity."

    All friendly opinions here but I agree with OP, instanced PvP is pure trash.

    If it's not accessible until after you've run out of interesting things to do in the game, then it's irrelevant at best.  And maybe worse than irrelevant if it means you get ganked a lot on the way to max level.

  • ThorkuneThorkune Eastern, KYPosts: 1,830Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    What I don't understand is why people settle for world PVP trash in which winning is determined almost entirely by level, gear, and how many people your side has in the area, with very little impact from what you actually do in combat.

    I have not participated in PvP very much since SWG, because it was one of the few games where tactics really mattered. You did not have to have great gear to be good at PvP. Being able to outsmart your foe went a long way. You didn't need resilience, valor or any other PvP only stat to compete.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    What I don't understand is why people settle for world PVP trash in which winning is determined almost entirely by level, gear, and how many people your side has in the area, with very little impact from what you actually do in combat.

    Because that's like, you know, totally hardcore and shit.

    Care bear...

    ;)

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member

    I'd say it stems from ignorance. Most new/casual MMO players are only familiar with the sub par systems in place in WoW. Or, they've only ever tried the gimmicky FFA PvP servers on PvE MMOs, which are by and large, poorly designed.

    So few had a chance to see PvP that actually works like Dark Age of Camelot's RvR.

    Even devs can't seem to get it right. GW2 tried to mimic DAoC and fell short in several very obvious key areas.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon

    LOL at people who think world PvP is anything other incentivized griefing.  World PvP always devolves into ganking and griefing and no amount of wishfull thanking can prove otherwise.  Sure you might have the occasional "decent" moment but 99% of all world PvP is all about ganking/griefing!

     

    Now I agree with you that instanced PvP is thrash but I also believe instanced PvE is thrash as well.  I feel that PvP in its own part of the world is best, a place where risk vs rewards abound and no one can be forced to PvP.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

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  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,122Member Uncommon
    Sounds to me like the OP wants sheep to hunt (World PvP) and can't deal with fighting other wolves of equatable skill / gear (Instanced PvP).

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  • NetspookNetspook OsloPosts: 1,503Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by mmoDAD

    When did players start to accept the fact that it's okay for PvP to be completely instanced?

    EverQuest II's 2006 Nagafen Server was a World PvP Server. It worked.

    SWG's PvP was World PvP. It worked.

     

    Ever since WoW, PvP has become pure trash. And to make matters worse, "World PvP" has become such a loose term that anything that is isn't completely structured and even is considered World PvP, e.g., SWTOR's Ilum - a dedicated area for PvP. This isn't World PvP. It's trash.

     

    Servers should go like this:

    Server #1 PvE (Optional Battlegrounds)

    Server #2 PvP (World PvP)

     

    I'll tell you why people waste time in these redundant battlegrounds. It's because they are so helpless and consumed with the damn carrot dangling in front of their faces. You want that little piece of reward that everyone will eventually have. It's boring. It's an embarrassment to the genre.

    I don't want to see anyone fail. However, it would be a lie to not say I enjoy watching these Instanced PvP games turn into failed FTP games.

     

    There is no World PvP, never was and never will be.

    You're confusing WPvP with GvN: Gankers vs Newbies

  • JonokuJonoku Cool, PAPosts: 645Member
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Jonoku
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    What I don't understand is why people settle for world PVP trash in which winning is determined almost entirely by level, gear, and how many people your side has in the area, with very little impact from what you actually do in combat.

    Thanks for the laughs, I've seen a small group defeat the odds of numbers. Level or gear? people need to learn to get their gear and max level before participating in endgame content such as OPvP, its a joke to enter at level 5 with level 5 gear, no one does that........

    "Quality Over Quantity."

    All friendly opinions here but I agree with OP, instanced PvP is pure trash.

    If it's not accessible until after you've run out of interesting things to do in the game, then it's irrelevant at best.  And maybe worse than irrelevant if it means you get ganked a lot on the way to max level.

    Try a "PvE Server." Problem solved. There was never an issue with ganking in SWG because there was no such thing as PvP or PvE servers, it depended on the area you entered and you have to toggle yourself into PvP, I enjoy being hunted by bounter hunters and ganked, don't know what game you've been playing......

    Looking at: The Repopulation
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  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    I don't think strategic and tactical thinkers ever really "get" each other.

    I do know that open-world brawling doesn't teach much of either. :shrug:

    On the other hand, neither does "afk your way to fame and fortune, via rewards for losses".

     

    So meh.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • PrenhoPrenho AracajuPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by azzamasin

    LOL at people who think world PvP is anything other incentivized griefing.  World PvP always devolves into ganking and griefing and no amount of wishfull thanking can prove otherwise.  Sure you might have the occasional "decent" moment but 99% of all world PvP is all about ganking/griefing!

     

    Now I agree with you that instanced PvP is thrash but I also believe instanced PvE is thrash as well.  I feel that PvP in its own part of the world is best, a place where risk vs rewards abound and no one can be forced to PvP.

    Correcting: world pvp of pvp servers of a non-pvp MMO. Lineage is a OWpvp game and rarely you see random ganking/pk, 95% of the owpvp is about guild wars that fight for world resources.

     

    You can't compare the shitty and poorly designed pvp in games like wow with a game where there are consequences and rules for PK.

  • JonokuJonoku Cool, PAPosts: 645Member
    Originally posted by Netspook
    Originally posted by mmoDAD

    When did players start to accept the fact that it's okay for PvP to be completely instanced?

    EverQuest II's 2006 Nagafen Server was a World PvP Server. It worked.

    SWG's PvP was World PvP. It worked.

     

    Ever since WoW, PvP has become pure trash. And to make matters worse, "World PvP" has become such a loose term that anything that is isn't completely structured and even is considered World PvP, e.g., SWTOR's Ilum - a dedicated area for PvP. This isn't World PvP. It's trash.

     

    Servers should go like this:

    Server #1 PvE (Optional Battlegrounds)

    Server #2 PvP (World PvP)

     

    I'll tell you why people waste time in these redundant battlegrounds. It's because they are so helpless and consumed with the damn carrot dangling in front of their faces. You want that little piece of reward that everyone will eventually have. It's boring. It's an embarrassment to the genre.

    I don't want to see anyone fail. However, it would be a lie to not say I enjoy watching these Instanced PvP games turn into failed FTP games.

     

    There is no World PvP, never was and never will be.

    You're confusing WPvP with GvN: Gankers vs Newbies

    What does ganking have to do with WPvP? what server have you been on, what game have you been playing? No such thing in what I played.....

    Looking at: The Repopulation
    Preordering: None
    Playing: Random Games

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