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Massively "TSW's new PvP -- how do you like them Big Apples?"

KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/11/26/chaos-theory-tsws-new-pvp-how-do-you-like-them-big-apples/

 

It seems like the pvp changes have been for the worse. I just don't think they though out pvp from the start.

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Comments

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    They're for the better.

    But tsw is playing catchup. If your prime thing is pvp why would you play fusang when you can play WvW or planetside 2.

    It's not a bad setup, its not a mega cockup like swtor ilum, but there are better alternatives.

    It does have true rivalry over gw2 though.
  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    They're for the better.

    But tsw is playing catchup. If your prime thing is pvp why would you play fusang when you can play WvW or planetside 2.

    It's not a bad setup, its not a mega cockup like swtor ilum, but there are better alternatives.

    It does have true rivalry over gw2 though.

    This sounded a lot like Ilum:

     

    "Sadly, instead of encouraging more PvP, this implementation seems to have driven out the other two faction members, who no longer have a chance to secure any objectives. Thanks to the constant spread-out zerg of one faction, there isn't even any PvP because there are no other factions to fight!

    Wait, why don't the other factions just load in and go fight the Templars, especially when they have access to the underdog buff, granting them control of a guardian?

    Well, that would be because they can't even get into Fusang. No, seriously. I was so excited at one point to see some PvP spring up on the map that I ran over to it to try to get in on the action. What I found was one faction (mine) camping the entry point of another. The other faction couldn't even step into Fusang more than a foot before being slaughtered. I turned around and left in disgust."

     

    Not sure how those changes are for the better.

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  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Because before it was just a bunch of carebears trading facilities.

    Now they have to you know actually pvp.
  • JKwervoJKwervo N. Las Vegas, NVPosts: 126Member
    Lol true rivalry when you can just switch characters to go to the more populated faction. Yeah....rivalry alright. XD

    No faction lock was dumb from the get go. They were told that. Now you see the byproduct of that plus the fact that they're playing catch up.

  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon

    No doubt about it, Fusang is currently borked, and the dev team has acknowledged and are working on addressing things.  The good news is that they've been very open and forthright in the forums:

    http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showpost.php?p=1460622&postcount=5

    In the meantime, queues in Stonehenge and El Dorado have been fixed, and people are finding some fun PvP in the battlegrounds.  There's also the fight clubs, and some groups have been scheduling tournaments.

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Because before it was just a bunch of carebears trading facilities.

    Now they have to you know actually pvp.

    Did you read the article?

     

    "2. The circular zerg is gone, but so is PvP.


    True to intention, the days of factions running circles around Fusang trading objectives is gone, except now they don't seem to change at all, and the zerg just changed into a swarm. In my time so far in Fusang, I have seen only a couple of anima wells change hands, and never a facility. Since White Marks of Venice are awarded according to how many objectives you kept control of, folks really are spread out all over the map making sure the objectives remain in Templar hands. I say Templar specifically because whenever I log in, there are always so many Templars that the map looks like an ant farm, but there is never even a full party of other factions. In fact, I have logged in one faction to find myself the only one, but when I move to Temps, I drown in groups.

    Sadly, instead of encouraging more PvP, this implementation seems to have driven out the other two faction members, who no longer have a chance to secure any objectives. Thanks to the constant spread-out zerg of one faction, there isn't even any PvP because there are no other factions to fight!

    Wait, why don't the other factions just load in and go fight the Templars, especially when they have access to the underdog buff, granting them control of a guardian?

    3. Bullies are lonely.

    Well, that would be because they can't even get into Fusang. No, seriously. I was so excited at one point to see some PvP spring up on the map that I ran over to it to try to get in on the action. What I found was one faction (mine) camping the entry point of another. The other faction couldn't even step into Fusang more than a foot before being slaughtered. I turned around and left in disgust.PvP folks, that's pretty counterproductive. How many people are going to keep coming into the zone under that scenario? Few to none, as evidenced by the complete lack of two factions in Fusang. This ended up not only discouraging PvP but also giving one group a chance to earn easy PvP tokens for doing next to nothing.

    4. A free ride.

    The new system also encourages an even lazier collection of PvP tokens -- for one faction, at least. Basically Templars can load in and sit in the zone all day just soaking up the tokens every three minutes without doing anything other than be outside of the starting area. I was shocked to see myself gaining tokens while grabbing screenshots. At least before, I had to run between objectives!

    In effect, we went from one style of PvP token farming to another style of PvP token farming without adding more PvP. And in this scenario, only one faction gets the tokens instead of all three. I am glad that the devs will be monitoring how things go and tweaking; I hope that a huge tweak is in the works for Fusang, which has potential that is still unrealized."

     

    I wouldn't call that "actual pvp". Before it was musical chairs and at least people had to move around, now they just stand still and get rewards.

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  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,284Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kuppa

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/11/26/chaos-theory-tsws-new-pvp-how-do-you-like-them-big-apples/

     

    It seems like the pvp changes have been for the worse. I just don't think they though out pvp from the start.

    PvP was designed into the fabric of the game from day one. The problem has been slow response to broken abilitites (like really broken) couple that with the AoE everything style battlegrounds, and the lack of Wpvp; Fusang no matter what they tweek will not be enough.

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Kuppa

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/11/26/chaos-theory-tsws-new-pvp-how-do-you-like-them-big-apples/

     

    It seems like the pvp changes have been for the worse. I just don't think they though out pvp from the start.

    PvP was designed into the fabric of the game from day one. The problem has been slow response to broken abilitites (like really broken) couple that with the AoE everything style battlegrounds, and the lack of Wpvp; Fusang no matter what they tweek will not be enough.

    So it was just horrible design? We can't even tell if balance is ok cause of other issues that are in the way. If it was designed from the get go it people would have also played this game for the pvp, currently most just mention the pve.

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  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Funcom have never been good in implementing PvP. In Anarchy Online it was lacklustre, in AoC it was craptastic and now we see that they failed again in this game. How one can fail to implement proper PvP in a three faction MMORPG is beyond me...
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,284Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Kuppa

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/11/26/chaos-theory-tsws-new-pvp-how-do-you-like-them-big-apples/

     

    It seems like the pvp changes have been for the worse. I just don't think they though out pvp from the start.

    PvP was designed into the fabric of the game from day one. The problem has been slow response to broken abilitites (like really broken) couple that with the AoE everything style battlegrounds, and the lack of Wpvp; Fusang no matter what they tweek will not be enough.

    So it was just horrible design? We can't even tell if balance is ok cause of other issues that are in the way. If it was designed from the get go it people would have also played this game for the pvp, currently most just mention the pve.

    Yes horrible design as far as the content and balancing. I've never been one to complain about "balance" if fact I believe balance is a myth. When you have abilities like epicenter which was abviously not balanced with more than one or two applications in mind, then throw everyone one into a phone booth (Stone Henge) with seven or eight epicenters being laid down, you get a real clusterfuck. Epicenter was toned down with the last patch, but it took far too long. 

     

    The ability wheel is too good for the one dimensional content availible. The game needs a pvp server with Opvp rules, and more dynamic maps. 

     

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Kuppa

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/11/26/chaos-theory-tsws-new-pvp-how-do-you-like-them-big-apples/

     

    It seems like the pvp changes have been for the worse. I just don't think they though out pvp from the start.

    PvP was designed into the fabric of the game from day one. The problem has been slow response to broken abilitites (like really broken) couple that with the AoE everything style battlegrounds, and the lack of Wpvp; Fusang no matter what they tweek will not be enough.

    So it was just horrible design? We can't even tell if balance is ok cause of other issues that are in the way. If it was designed from the get go it people would have also played this game for the pvp, currently most just mention the pve.

    Yes horrible design as far as the content and balancing. I've never been one to complain about "balance" if fact I believe balance is a myth. When you have abilities like epicenter which was abviously not balanced with more than one or two applications in mind, then throw everyone one into a phone booth (Stone Henge) with seven or eight epicenters being laid down, you get a real clusterfuck. Epicenter was toned down with the last patch, but it took far too long. 

     

    The ability wheel is too good for the one dimensional content availible. The game needs a pvp server with Opvp rules, and more dynamic maps. 

     

    I agree that perfect balance is a myth. But there is such thing as good balance and bad balance(or no balance).

     

    Yes, a pvp server might be kool but that seems like it would be tons of work to pull of at this point of the game.

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  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Originally they planned to lock you to a single character like uo and darkfall. Can't help thinking giving into the complaints about that one damaged the pvp.
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,284Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Kuppa

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/11/26/chaos-theory-tsws-new-pvp-how-do-you-like-them-big-apples/

     

    It seems like the pvp changes have been for the worse. I just don't think they though out pvp from the start.

    PvP was designed into the fabric of the game from day one. The problem has been slow response to broken abilitites (like really broken) couple that with the AoE everything style battlegrounds, and the lack of Wpvp; Fusang no matter what they tweek will not be enough.

    So it was just horrible design? We can't even tell if balance is ok cause of other issues that are in the way. If it was designed from the get go it people would have also played this game for the pvp, currently most just mention the pve.

    Yes horrible design as far as the content and balancing. I've never been one to complain about "balance" if fact I believe balance is a myth. When you have abilities like epicenter which was abviously not balanced with more than one or two applications in mind, then throw everyone one into a phone booth (Stone Henge) with seven or eight epicenters being laid down, you get a real clusterfuck. Epicenter was toned down with the last patch, but it took far too long. 

     

    The ability wheel is too good for the one dimensional content availible. The game needs a pvp server with Opvp rules, and more dynamic maps. 

     

    I agree that perfect balance is a myth. But there is such thing as good balance and bad balance(or no balance).

     

    Yes, a pvp server might be kool but that seems like it would be tons of work to pull of at this point of the game.

    Yep... so what's next?

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,284Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Originally they planned to lock you to a single character like uo and darkfall. Can't help thinking giving into the complaints about that one damaged the pvp.

    I think you have a point here.

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Originally they planned to lock you to a single character like uo and darkfall. Can't help thinking giving into the complaints about that one damaged the pvp.

    I think you have a point here.

    That sounds like a pretty hardcore thing to do. Definately not AAA game realm.

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  • RawizRawiz HelsinkiPosts: 469Member Uncommon
    They have the AoC pvp dev onboard now, I'm sure they'll get a Bori equivalent and ignored for 2 years. I don't understand how that guy (Didek) survived all the layoffs, when clearly he has done nothing at all in 2 years (see AoC PvP, before commenting).
  • DSWBeefDSWBeef phoenix, AZPosts: 791Member
    Funcom has never been the PVP dev. Theyve always been really good at PVE. Im happy they are trying but they need to keep to there strengths. Aoc had some amazing pve raids and TSW has some awesome stories they need to add more stuff to the world to enhance the setting.

    Playing: War Thunder, World of Warcraft, and Grim Dawn
    Waiting on:Everquest Next and The Black Desert

  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member

    Fantastic PvP changes, I love Fusang now more than ever.

    Really cool and I´m looking forward to what new creative ideas they come up with

    Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

    Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
    .


    .
    The Return of ELITE !
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  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member
    The game needs an opt-in / flagging world PvP system for those who want to play it that way.  This instanced arena crap isn't going to cut it.

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MindTrigger
    The game needs an opt-in / flagging world PvP system for those who want to play it that way.  This instanced arena crap isn't going to cut it.

    There definitely is discussion of this over in the forums:

    http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showthread.php?t=61277

    http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showthread.php?t=60834

    Right now, TSW is full out on addressing Fusang and balance issues, but they do at least understand that PvP is an important part of the game, and are open to feedback and communication with the population.  

  • SQTOSQTO victoria, BCPosts: 188Member
    Originally posted by MindTrigger
    The game needs an opt-in / flagging world PvP system for those who want to play it that way.  This instanced arena crap isn't going to cut it.

    this was the reason why I quit, the pve world was just so boring without a pvp server.  I was expecting at least one pvp server for a three faction game, beacuse really what was the point of the factions ?

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member
    Originally posted by SQTO
    Originally posted by MindTrigger
    The game needs an opt-in / flagging world PvP system for those who want to play it that way.  This instanced arena crap isn't going to cut it.

    this was the reason why I quit, the pve world was just so boring without a pvp server.  I was expecting at least one pvp server for a three faction game, beacuse really what was the point of the factions ?

    I really can't get my head around why they haven't done this.  An Opt-In Flagging system would make it easy to implement, and would add a whole new dimension to the game  They already have PvP in the game, so why not open up a PvP server?  I'd be willing to bet that if they did, it will be full in a matter of days from people abandoning the other servers for more fun and action.

    I personally would reinstall the game immediately and reactivate my sub. 

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,437Member Uncommon
    Should have never been a pvp game to begin with. There's far greater evils to worry about than each other faction.

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  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member
    Originally posted by Fendel84M
    Should have never been a pvp game to begin with. There's far greater evils to worry about than each other faction.

    From a story perspective, I find it to be much more ludicrous that these factions, which have been battling forever, suddenly decided to be best friends and work together without any static at all. 

    The point of an opt-in system is that people like you can go about your PvE business and not have to worry at all about those of us who want world PvP.  It's a win-win for everyone, and would likely draw more people back to the game (myself included).    Then again, they can uphold the status quo and continue to bleed subs until the game gets shut down.  Whatever works for them, I guess.

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • DanderXDanderX Miami, FLPosts: 15Member

    Who would play TSW to PvP?! This game is more carebear-ish than WoW.

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