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Concerns about forced PK - Griefers heaven

DrakadenDrakaden Quebec, QCPosts: 138Member Uncommon

So i got this concern, and i'm sure i'm not alone to think so, this game isn't fair in any way in a PvP environment, it's level, gear and class skills based, that's worse than a paper rock scissors pvp system, why?

Because it means you can be bullied, very, very easily, PKers get very high lvl, gain awesome gear, adjust their skills for PKing mainly, then they go in low level dungeons, where players cannot fight back whatsoever due to the heavy gear defenses/offensives stacked against them, you see where i'm getting at? It's terrible!

I was fine with the perma death system in a PvE environment, but the PK is too much of a concern for me.

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Comments

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 14,247Member Rare
    Originally posted by Drakaden
    So i got this concern, and i'm sure i'm not alone to think so, this game isn't fair in any way in a PvP environment, it's level, gear and class skills based, that's worse than a paper rock scissors pvp system, why? Because it means you can be bullied, very, very easily, PKers get very high lvl, gain awesome gear, adjust their skills for PKing mainly, then they go in low level dungeons, where players cannot fight back whatsoever due to the heavy gear defenses/offensives stacked against them, you see where i'm getting at? It's terrible! I was fine with the perma death system in a PvE environment, but the PK is too much of a concern for me.

    A PK racks up at least 8 hours of IN GAME time of criminal status per kill. That status affects all characters on that particular soul (each account has 2 souls), not just the one character. As a red, he has limited access to quests which are a major source of XP and gold. He has to sneak around town to avoid getting guard whacked or attacked by white players... or other red players. 

    There really isn't a reason for many people to waste time killing newbies. Yes, there are those that will want to do it for fun and No, they won't last very long.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • DrakadenDrakaden Quebec, QCPosts: 138Member Uncommon

    PKers have the least to lose from such practice, they just exchange their loot with an alt or a partner-in-crime and go stash their stuff safely unbothered by anything, they most of the time always have the upper hand when it comes to attacking, they do -just- that, they don't care about the monsters or the chests or whatever, yer busy doing that, you give them the instant advantage over you, and unlike those PKers that got nothing to lose, the people that tries to progress have everything to lose, they carry their stashes of the huntings and quests and they can die.

    And don't go thinking those Pkers are always going solo, you would heavily underestimate them, the concern here is that this will scare away a good amount of potential players, because they will -hate- those griefers, it's just something they need to adjust in their game, a Pve only server and a PvP only server, or the option to go open PK instead of being forced to, right now, this game won't live well long-term, because it's alienating a large portion of players: Soloers, PvP hater players, new players trying to progress but struggling, those 3 categories already narrow a very large portion.

    People will just quit if they see their things always disrupted by griefers, and that means less customers for the company.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 14,247Member Rare
    Originally posted by Drakaden
    PKers have the least to lose from such practice, they just exchange their loot with an alt or a partner-in-crime and go stash their stuff safely unbothered by anything, they most of the time always have the upper hand when it comes to attacking, they do -just- that, they don't care about the monsters or the chests or whatever, yer busy doing that, you give them the instant advantage over you, and unlike those PKers that got nothing to lose, the people that tries to progress have everything to lose, they carry their stashes of the huntings and quests and they can die. And don't go thinking those Pkers are always going solo, you would heavily underestimate them, the concern here is that this will scare away a good amount of potential players, because they will -hate- those griefers, it's just something they need to adjust in their game, a Pve only server and a PvP only server, or the option to go open PK instead of being forced to, right now, this game won't live well long-term, because it's alienating a large portion of players: Soloers, PvP hater players, new players trying to progress but struggling, those 3 categories already narrow a very large portion. People will just quit if they see their things always disrupted by griefers, and that means less customers for the company.

    That's a lot of speculation and for most people those concerns will be allayed once they see how the mechanics work. I get the feeling you have already made up your mind, though.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • DrakadenDrakaden Quebec, QCPosts: 138Member Uncommon
    These aren't speculations, i played and experienced the game, i have seen how the PKers works, and i spoke to players i teamed with, and so far it's a universal agreement that the game won't last long-term in it's current state, but yes i did make my mind, there's no convincing to be made, it's their game, not mine.
  • Arcondo87Arcondo87 Prince Albert, SKPosts: 94Member
    WTF is this game its soo hott right now on MMORPG.com....is it a vindictus stle game? hack n slash? i dont get it....
  • DrakadenDrakaden Quebec, QCPosts: 138Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Arcondo87
    WTF is this game its soo hott right now on MMORPG.com....is it a vindictus stle game? hack n slash? i dont get it....

    Closed beta NDA, cannot speak more than what is already spoken from the company, if you need infos, check their game page on MMORPG or their web site.

  • RilmanRilman IpswichPosts: 35Member Common
    Anyone know where the beta forums are for this? I'm in Beta but I can't find them anywhere.
  • DrakadenDrakaden Quebec, QCPosts: 138Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ibn_Cartwell
    Wizardry Online PK ~ (JP)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kd-SC6TXcI&feature=player_detailpage  

    Those videos solidify what i was speaking about.

  • ibn_Cartwellibn_Cartwell Northwest, MTPosts: 47Member
    Originally posted by Drakaden
    Originally posted by ibn_Cartwell
    Wizardry Online PK ~ (JP)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kd-SC6TXcI&feature=player_detailpage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTFBa70z93s&feature=player_detailpage  

    Those videos solidify what i was speaking about.

     No, it's not about gear/level/ect, it's about flawed mechanics.

  • DrakadenDrakaden Quebec, QCPosts: 138Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ibn_Cartwell
    Originally posted by Drakaden
    Originally posted by ibn_Cartwell
    Wizardry Online PK ~ (JP)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kd-SC6TXcI&feature=player_detailpage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTFBa70z93s&feature=player_detailpage  

    Those videos solidify what i was speaking about.

     No, it's not about gear/level/ect, it's about flawed mechanics.

    What do you think levels/gear/"etc" are? What you see is an abuse of the terrain, but what you refuse to see is a superiority in those mechanics that you don't want to call them such, you seen that PK 1 - 2 shots vendors in town, you seen how some people do so little damage but receive so massive ones, are you in deniance? In any cases, those videos came justifying what i'm talking about.

  • ibn_Cartwellibn_Cartwell Northwest, MTPosts: 47Member
    Originally posted by Drakaden
    Originally posted by ibn_Cartwell
    Originally posted by Drakaden
    Originally posted by ibn_Cartwell
    Wizardry Online PK ~ (JP)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kd-SC6TXcI&feature=player_detailpage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTFBa70z93s&feature=player_detailpage  

    Those videos solidify what i was speaking about.

     No, it's not about gear/level/ect, it's about flawed mechanics.

    What do you think levels/gear/"etc" are? What you see is an abuse of the terrain, but what you refuse to see is a superiority in those mechanics that you don't want to call them such, you seen that PK 1 - 2 shots vendors in town, you seen how some people do so little damage but receive so massive ones, are you in deniance? In any cases, those videos came justifying what i'm talking about.

     

    Yes, as I said, bad mechanics, I see the imbalance you see. Having the mechanic of leveling and using equipment does not itself create imbalance, but bad regulation, if you under stand.
  • DrakadenDrakaden Quebec, QCPosts: 138Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ibn_Cartwell
    Yes, as I said, bad mechanics, I see the imbalance you see. Having the mechanic of leveling and using equipment does not itself create imbalance, but bad regulation, if you under stand.

    Yes, now were on the same wave length, thank you.

  • WraithoneWraithone Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 3,676Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Drakaden
    So i got this concern, and i'm sure i'm not alone to think so, this game isn't fair in any way in a PvP environment, it's level, gear and class skills based, that's worse than a paper rock scissors pvp system, why? Because it means you can be bullied, very, very easily, PKers get very high lvl, gain awesome gear, adjust their skills for PKing mainly, then they go in low level dungeons, where players cannot fight back whatsoever due to the heavy gear defenses/offensives stacked against them, you see where i'm getting at? It's terrible! I was fine with the perma death system in a PvE environment, but the PK is too much of a concern for me.

    A PK racks up at least 8 hours of IN GAME time of criminal status per kill. That status affects all characters on that particular soul (each account has 2 souls), not just the one character. As a red, he has limited access to quests which are a major source of XP and gold. He has to sneak around town to avoid getting guard whacked or attacked by white players... or other red players. 

    There really isn't a reason for many people to waste time killing newbies. Yes, there are those that will want to do it for fun and No, they won't last very long.

    Do you really think thats going to stop or even hinder the Goonie types?  Such people get their jollies from ruining other peoples play experience.  These systems have been tried endlessly, and it always turns out the same way. It doesn't take more than a handful of them to really mess up a game.  

    Use of such flawed dynamics SERIOUSLY limits a games appeal in many modern markets. 

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,952Member Rare
    Opvp seems like I would be all in. I wasn't. Really disappointed that this IP was used on this game.
  • alakramalakram malagaPosts: 2,291Member Uncommon

    Open pvp and permadeath?. Great idea...

    You start your character, level it a little and all of a sudden a PK killed you and your character is gone and the game is free to play so there is no money spent forcing you to try again. So you uninstall it and go play something else. Thats whats gonna happen.

  • RilmanRilman IpswichPosts: 35Member Common
    That's not how it works in reality, there's souls that don't lose your skills, you lose a body and some gear but you can re-use the soul in another char so its not really true perma death.
  • DrakadenDrakaden Quebec, QCPosts: 138Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rilman
    That's not how it works in reality, there's souls that don't lose your skills, you lose a body and some gear but you can re-use the soul in another char so its not really true perma death.

    That ain't gonna stop people from wanting to stop playing if they get griefed.

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member Common
    Originally posted by Drakaden
    Originally posted by Rilman
    That's not how it works in reality, there's souls that don't lose your skills, you lose a body and some gear but you can re-use the soul in another char so its not really true perma death.

    That ain't gonna stop people from wanting to stop playing if they get griefed.

    There may be some issues with the system, but if some people are going to "give up" the first time they get PK'd then you have to question quite why those people have picked out the game in the first place.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • DrakadenDrakaden Quebec, QCPosts: 138Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    There may be some issues with the system, but if some people are going to "give up" the first time they get PK'd then you have to question quite why those people have picked out the game in the first place.

    There are definately issues with the system, major ones, and it's not a matter of getting PKed the first time, it's a matter of getting griefed, big difference here, people will try it for it's perma death setting and it's gameplay, and will be curious about the PK, and will decide if it's worth the troubles those griefers are causing them.

  • olalondeolalonde greenfield park, QCPosts: 10Member Uncommon

    Honestly i'v been playing to soul rank 3 and character lvl 11,( takes a long time the first time )

    And i got pked, by some people and they waited for me at the spawn to kill me again. I escaped...if you can't escape theres always a way to escape, theres an instant teleport to town button usable every 12 hours.Right now pks just ruin their characters to get some kills, and loot that isnt worth killin for. I just place bounty on them, and spam in town that someones camping the entrance of X dungeon. Some high levels passing by will glady go in and destroy those pks that stopped progressing for the sake of griefing, and they will collect the 30 k bounty on them, as well as loot them pks.

    pks getting looted means its over for them unless they use different souls to xfer items on them etc. But it's all not worth it unless your killing wealthy people and looting the right stuff.

    This game is mad fun, and what makes people quit isn't the pks, it's the dungeons.

    When you reach the golden dragon dungeon (lvl 8) thats when you start crying, and if you think getting griefed is bad, you'v seen nothing. I strongly suggest this game to anyone out there who likes dungeon crawling, puzzle solving, hell you'll need to write down information on paper to advance in the game, unless you want to use a japanese wiki translated into english, even that didn,t help me for the golden dragon dungeon. I was tank, probably the highest survivability while playing solo, more than monk at least ( my friend is monk ) and some mobs are just unkillable because you need a team to beat them. If you don't have a team, you can find ways to get past them, or you can lure them into dungeon traps etc.

    Don't let pking stop you from playing this great game, the more time passes, the more diplomatie will hold the griefers back. You might get pked but it won't last.

     

    Theres a board that shows the bounty on pkers and the amount of people who permanently died, you'll find it's a very short list. ^^

     

    cya in game!

  • DrakadenDrakaden Quebec, QCPosts: 138Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by olalonde

    This game is mad fun, and what makes people quit isn't the pks, it's the dungeons. Don't let pking stop you from playing this great game, the more time passes, the more diplomatie will hold the griefers back. You might get pked but it won't last. Theres a board that shows the bounty on pkers and the amount of people who permanently died, you'll find it's a very short list. ^^

    The PKs will make people quit lol, that's deniance right there, proofs of what they can do and will do are in your face, yet you still say the contrary? That's misplaced judgment. Sure people will also quit for the dungeons difficulties eventually, when they can no longer find people to play with.

    PKing will last, forever, the wheel won't stop just because of misplaced optimist comments.

    Of course it's short, it's closed beta, what do you expect? A population as big as open beta or release?

    You're not credible man.

  • olalondeolalonde greenfield park, QCPosts: 10Member Uncommon

    I don't see whats the point of being so angry about what I said and attacking me and shit.

    Just don't play the game if you think that you will quit because of pkers.

  • DrakadenDrakaden Quebec, QCPosts: 138Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by olalonde
    I don't see whats the point of being so angry about what I said and attacking me and shit. Just don't play the game if you think that you will quit because of pkers.

    I am not angry nor attacking you, i am saying that your statements lacks credibility, there's videos justifying what will happen, and the game is here to experience it if a player still needs convincing after what has been posted here, just try to give some muscle behind your statements, that's all.

  • LadyEupheiLadyEuphei Indianapolis, INPosts: 223Member Uncommon
    There is a system in order to prevent griefing. If you are 5 levels apart you can not attack eachother. It is possible for a level 5 to camp the first dungeon but you cant be attacked until your Soul level 2, if you dont want to be able to be attacked you dont have to raise your soul level but you can only get to character level 7. Please play the game and read the forums, there is alot of interesting and helpful tidbits in there.

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