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Since You're Complaining About F2P Restrictions....

nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member

...how would you of done it? Keep in mind that the Cartel Market needs to offer things that nearly everyone is going to want to buy. You can't have people just playing the game for free indefinitely or only charging for things that only a select type of player would pay for. If they did that, they'd never make any money and that's the whole point in making the game F2P, to increase profits over the pure P2P model.

I'm asking this, because people keep complaining about the restrictions. What did people expect, a free ride until they got tired of the game? To not spend any money in the near future, possibly for over a month? To only be restricted in ways that people don't mind? If players don't mind the restrictions, then they'd be less likely to pony over the dough.

IMHO, I think people who are complaining don't deserve to be. Anytime you get something for free, you should never complain, then again, I grew up poor, so maybe I was brought up differently. 

If I was Bioware, I would have rationed off the whole draw of the game and made F2P players pay to access it in bits and pieces. The main draw is the single player class stories. If you have to pay money to unlock each Chapter per character, then you'd accomplish two things. Get rid of the F2P players that don't ever intend to pay a dime, because they're only playing to finish off all the class stories. The second is to profit off your best feature. Sort of like unlocking content packs in DDO.

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Comments

  • KabaalKabaal Edinburgh, ScotlandPosts: 3,012Member Uncommon
    It doesn't matter how it's defended, EA's version of F2P is abysmal when compared to the F2P models in pretty much every other game out there. You say people don't have the right to complain, since when did people lose the right to voice opinions on open forums?
  • SkymourneSkymourne Ruston, LAPosts: 366Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kabaal
    It doesn't matter how it's defended, EA's version of F2P is abysmal when compared to the F2P models in pretty much every other game out there. You say people don't have the right to complain, since when did people lose the right to voice opinions on open forums?

    This right here.  SWTOR's F2P model is awful when compared with every other F2P game out there and we can complain as much as we like thank you very much.  I'll lose the right to compain when i die and only then.

     

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    I'm not one of the whiners, but there are some things I would have changed.

    * Anyone who subscribed even for a month would have the UI unlocks permanently unlocked.
    * Character slots would have been something that could be purchased right off the bat.
    * Preferred players would have one additional character slot.

    It might not have occurred to me to restrict the UI and charge to have bits of it unlocked, though I would keep the cosmetic unlocks, like being able to high the hideous head gear.

    I think I would have tried to get as close to the Story part of the game being free, and the Operations, Flashpoints and whatever the other thing is being paid content. There would be lots of cosmetic options available for purchase.

    Some future update would include being able to personalize your ship's quarters.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • ForumPvPForumPvP KingstownPosts: 871Member

    1 space bar press token 5 bucks.

    1 esc press token 20 bucks.

    Let's internet

  • junzo316junzo316 Raleigh, NCPosts: 1,684Member Uncommon
    I was caught off-guard when I realized that I couldn't find the "Hide Helm" option, to hide the hideous thing that was on my head.  I soon learned that you had to purchase it....WHAT!?!  That's just crazy.  Also, the fact that I have to sub a month to get my "complimentary" cartel points for prior subs and my collector's edition purchase....just WOW!  EA made some stupid mistakes with the f2p conversion.
  • kadepsysonkadepsyson sun prairie, WIPosts: 1,937Member

    Guys cmon, it has the word free somewhere on the website.  That means it's a great deal!

     

    I feel sorry for those poor sods who pay one flat fee for an entire month, like fifteen whole dollars, just to get access to every single piece of content and option the game they play offers.  I would much rather play a game where I can't access everything and am limited by restrictions at every turn unless I pay a small fee to lift them.  I mean if you add up the cost of unlocking every single option, armor, class, race, area, etc in a free to play game, and compare that figure to 15 dollars, well obviously free is the better deal because it has the word free going for it.

    El Psy Congroo

  • CorehavenCorehaven Colorado Springs, COPosts: 1,538Member

    No worries. 

     

    With Swtor's F2P system you don't have to worry about F2P players in your game for any longer than a few days.  How are they going to make a profit off F2P?  They won't.  When its that restrictive, its not going to appeal to anyone.  If the idea was to get people to pay a sub fee out of frustration, the plan will fail because if they were going to sub they already would have. 

     

    You locked the action bars?   No bank what so ever?  Reduced xp for leveling?  The list is enormous.  But there is no reason to complain really.  Swtor isn't that good of a game anyways.  Now they have the worst F2P option in the industry on top of it. 

  • kevjardskevjards carlislePosts: 1,463Member

    i,m not defending their f2p restrictions but just that it could be put down to work in progress..i,e see what people like ,dislike etc..see what people complain about.those that want to play the game should give it some time for them to change what has been complained about.if you really want to play you will be patient and if not then you will go elsewhere.

    lotro's f2p has had changes made to accomodate things the people didnt like or were upset about.dont ask me what,i cant remember,i just know they changed a few things.

    if people dont like it they will leave in droves like they did the first time.all i would say is give them time..by all acounts they never expected this gamee to go f2p from what i read..i maybe wrong.

  • VincerKadenVincerKaden Edison, NJPosts: 457Member

    It does sound like EA has restricted the game to non-subscribers. It seems like their true business model is to either (a) drive people to subscribe or (b) drive them away. The "F2P" is just a doorway to either side.

    One thing they should be careful not to restrict to heavily is any content that would require grouping with others. In my experience, players will support a game longer if they are building friendships and grouping with people they like.

    That's not to say solo players do not support a game as well, but it is to say that restricting players who like to be with others is a surefire way to get them to take the door that drives them away.

    Another thing EA Should not have done: removed content from former subscribers, even if they just come back free now. Give them their stuff... but then turn around and develop NEW content that will have a price tag on it for them while they are opting for F2P. Make them WANT to spend money to get something they DIDN'T have before.

    We all know EA is trying to make money. But it seems like they went the "greed" route before swaying public opinion (in my opinion). That screams of a company that's going to bleed as much money as possible for the short-term, rather then slowly build up over the long haul.

     

    image

  • JabshakkJabshakk Independence, MOPosts: 16Member Uncommon
    I went back to the game, and didnt even bother with the FTP option at all, just went ahead and subbed, only 14.99 and I have the money to waste. I can't see myself spending a dollar here and there when there's an option to unlock it all for a set price.
  • GiddianGiddian Livonia, MIPosts: 415Member Uncommon

    The best F2P content Market has to be DDO's.

    that to me should be the Model.

    SWTOR charges for EVERYTHING, and Chages way too much to boot.

    enough to make me not play it F2P, And I am one of the few that like the Game.

    it goes down as a  Fail for me. Hopefully they will tone it down and I will give it a go then.

     

    image

  • RidelynnRidelynn Fresno, CAPosts: 4,178Member Uncommon

    I wouldn't have gone F2P right off the bat.

    The box price was $60, the monthly sub base rate was $15/month.

    The box price was discounted down to $11 recently - a good start. But they never tried anything else before jumping straight to F2P. They had a lot of wiggle room on the price of a sub.

    Something like offering the limited client for free (which they effectively were doing with the trial), with a one-time $10 unlock (or box purchase) - with a $9/mo sub - see how that goes for a bit. If you don't want to pay the sub, you can unlock per-class the storyline and non-group gameplay for $10 ala carte - for the people that basically just see it as a single player game anyway. Pay the sub, you get all classes, drop the sub, you get your current characters plus one additional class without having to buy an unlock.

    In the mean time, the real root of the problem isn't with the box or sub fee, or even with the cash shop. The root of the problem is with the game itself. So you have some room to maneuver on the price side, but if you DONT FIX THE GAME IN THE FIRST PLACE - it doesn't do you any good. So this is what I would really do differently - work on fixing the problems with the game. Rather than laying off the entire development team, I would have kept them busy pushing new content as fast as I could get them to implement and test it.

  • kadepsysonkadepsyson sun prairie, WIPosts: 1,937Member

    Hey I really like this game and really want to play it.  I just don't think spending any kind of money on something I enjoy for hours, days, weeks, or even months that hundreds of people spent years working on is a good idea.  I prefer free to play games for this reason.

     

    Yes I'm sarcastic and yes people do think like that.

    El Psy Congroo

  • DestaiDestai Detroit, MIPosts: 574Member
    Originally posted by nate1980

    ...how would you of done it? Keep in mind that the Cartel Market needs to offer things that nearly everyone is going to want to buy. You can't have people just playing the game for free indefinitely or only charging for things that only a select type of player would pay for. If they did that, they'd never make any money and that's the whole point in making the game F2P, to increase profits over the pure P2P model.

    I'm asking this, because people keep complaining about the restrictions. What did people expect, a free ride until they got tired of the game? To not spend any money in the near future, possibly for over a month? To only be restricted in ways that people don't mind? If players don't mind the restrictions, then they'd be less likely to pony over the dough.

    IMHO, I think people who are complaining don't deserve to be. Anytime you get something for free, you should never complain, then again, I grew up poor, so maybe I was brought up differently. 

    If I was Bioware, I would have rationed off the whole draw of the game and made F2P players pay to access it in bits and pieces. The main draw is the single player class stories. If you have to pay money to unlock each Chapter per character, then you'd accomplish two things. Get rid of the F2P players that don't ever intend to pay a dime, because they're only playing to finish off all the class stories. The second is to profit off your best feature. Sort of like unlocking content packs in DDO.

    First off, I would never have had the game launch with a subscription. It's not financially viable, it detracts players, and it puts this poorly designed in direct competition with World of Warcraft.

    That being said, the game should have launched buy to play with additional content being released for a cost. They can add missions, zones, etc. for a cost or offer a subscription fee to access it. 

    Furthermore, to assume people won't complain is just ridiculous. The MMORPG market has turned into a saturated market filled with poor games. Games either have a poor launch, ridiculous updates or thin content. This game already a lot going against it. One mistake after another is getting ridiculous.

  • GiddianGiddian Livonia, MIPosts: 415Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by kadepsyson

    Hey I really like this game and really want to play it.  I just don't think spending any kind of money on something I enjoy for hours, days, weeks, or even months that hundreds of people spent years working on is a good idea.  I prefer free to play games for this reason.

     

    Yes I'm sarcastic and yes people do think like that.

    For you information, I bought the Game on release and with the exception of the Last 2 months, I paid $15 a Month and My reward is..........NOTHING. so I spent my share and don't want to spend 350 cartel points to Hide my head peice, {Just an Example}

    image

  • SoulStainSoulStain Tampa, FLPosts: 202Member
    Not that SWTOR is even close to perfect... but yet again..another issue blown way out of proportion by people that somehow want everything to match their dreams.
  • kadepsysonkadepsyson sun prairie, WIPosts: 1,937Member
    Originally posted by Giddian
    Originally posted by kadepsyson

    Hey I really like this game and really want to play it.  I just don't think spending any kind of money on something I enjoy for hours, days, weeks, or even months that hundreds of people spent years working on is a good idea.  I prefer free to play games for this reason.

     

    Yes I'm sarcastic and yes people do think like that.

    For you information, I bought the Game on release and with the exception of the Last 2 months, I paid $15 a Month and My reward is..........NOTHING. so I spent my share and don't want to spend 350 cartel points to Hide my head peice, {Just an Example}

    Your reward, if you will, was access to a game that people who didn't pay couldn't play.

    If you can no longer pay 15 dollars to get everything the game offers or allows, well blame free to play.  It is the people who want to spend nothing that make others have to spend more to get what they would have normally with a subscription.

    El Psy Congroo

  • DeeweDeewe Long Beach, CAPosts: 1,965Member
    Originally posted by nate1980

    ...how would you of done it? K

    Easy:

     

     

    Originally posted by Deewe

    Let's start with the obvious:

     

    The actual model for TOR F2P system is miss which hits a summit with making people pay for UI elements like quick slot bars.

     

    Now here's how the model should have been designed:

    • Provide all the tools needed to enjoy the content to the player for free.
    • Have first steps of the story element free for all the classes.
    • Do not restict players on basic choices (Ex: allow players to create only 2 characters but with any of the species for free).
    • Set a very low fee for purchaseable item, consumables.
    • Do not restrict some items to the random packs only

     

    The main idea driving the system would be hook the players in game with all the bells and whistles and have them pay for convenience items, quests hubs and fluff like pets, new gear skins/meshes. For the PvP, Operations, space missions have them (eventually) unlock them by bracket levels with a one time purchase.

     

    Make sure not to set the pricing too high and here's where the real trick kicks in.

    Have the pricing model setting the prices so low that players won't even feel like spending money at all.

    While the quests hubs could be in the $5 range all the rest should be under $1

    Recommending a piece of gear @ $0.90, no more and  consumables $0.10-$0.15

     

    You want players to feel spoiled. This way you'll get more money by having hundred of thousands people spending happily a few bucks than trying to milk players with the actual fees. Also think about the word of mouth you would get: free advertizing = more customers

    For prices set at  $0.10, $0.90 people will hardly hesitate before buying stuff at all, in the end spending much more than with a more obvious rip-off system.

     

    All in all think coke not Ferrari.

     

    D.

  • NetspookNetspook OsloPosts: 1,503Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nate1980

    ...how would you of done it? Keep in mind that the Cartel Market needs to offer things that nearly everyone is going to want to buy. You can't have people just playing the game for free indefinitely or only charging for things that only a select type of player would pay for. If they did that, they'd never make any money and that's the whole point in making the game F2P, to increase profits over the pure P2P model.

    I'm asking this, because people keep complaining about the restrictions. What did people expect, a free ride until they got tired of the game? To not spend any money in the near future, possibly for over a month? To only be restricted in ways that people don't mind? If players don't mind the restrictions, then they'd be less likely to pony over the dough.

    IMHO, I think people who are complaining don't deserve to be. Anytime you get something for free, you should never complain, then again, I grew up poor, so maybe I was brought up differently. 

    If I was Bioware, I would have rationed off the whole draw of the game and made F2P players pay to access it in bits and pieces. The main draw is the single player class stories. If you have to pay money to unlock each Chapter per character, then you'd accomplish two things. Get rid of the F2P players that don't ever intend to pay a dime, because they're only playing to finish off all the class stories. The second is to profit off your best feature. Sort of like unlocking content packs in DDO.

     

    Getting something for free, doesn't mean we want it at all. Over-restricted shit doesn't get more appealing, just because you get it for "free". If growing up poor should have taught anything, it should be to really consider your options, and the major complaint about SWTOR, is that it's model is the worst one out there.

    The main flaw in this post is that you don't understand that Bioware / EA wants us to play, but isn't making their F2P model appealing enough to attract the masses. Other F2P games' cash shops shows that they understand this simple basic truth: unless you have a model that attract players, they won't even play at all, and if they don't play, they sure as hell won't pay.

    Bioware can praise themselves lucky that you're not in charge. Getting rid of the F2P players, in a F2P game - really??

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    1. Allow more char slots until they sort out the char slots, as atm can not play as can not create another char. The quickslot bar is not an immediate issue as can not even get that far!
    2. Stop restricting things like quickslot bars
    3. Make space missions completely free, as it is single player - What single player game exists that you have to keep paying for to play?
    Overall all F2P games should concentrate on content, and items be obtainable through playing quests but devs too lazy to do so (SWTOR is no exception to this but will be even more so), or even an in game vendor using in game currency, instead of spending more RL currency.
  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    I'm not one of the whiners, but there are some things I would have changed.

    * Anyone who subscribed even for a month would have the UI unlocks permanently unlocked.
    * Character slots would have been something that could be purchased right off the bat.
    * Preferred players would have one additional character slot.

    It might not have occurred to me to restrict the UI and charge to have bits of it unlocked, though I would keep the cosmetic unlocks, like being able to high the hideous head gear.

    I think I would have tried to get as close to the Story part of the game being free, and the Operations, Flashpoints and whatever the other thing is being paid content. There would be lots of cosmetic options available for purchase.

    Some future update would include being able to personalize your ship's quarters.

    When I say F2P players have no right to complain, since they're getting a product for free, I don't mean that things can't be improved. That's not really directed at you, just stating that out front, so people know that I don't think things are perfect or anything.

    With that said, I agree with some of your points.

    1. The UI restrictions are unusual and a bad move on Biowares part. I'm a subscriber at lvl 18 right now, and I'm already using 4 hotbars. Not full mind you, but for seperating buffs, from actives, mounts, consumables etc.

    2. I agree about the character slots.

      

  • iceman00iceman00 Westland, MIPosts: 1,363Member
    Originally posted by kevjards

    i,m not defending their f2p restrictions but just that it could be put down to work in progress..i,e see what people like ,dislike etc..see what people complain about.those that want to play the game should give it some time for them to change what has been complained about.if you really want to play you will be patient and if not then you will go elsewhere.

    lotro's f2p has had changes made to accomodate things the people didnt like or were upset about.dont ask me what,i cant remember,i just know they changed a few things.

    if people dont like it they will leave in droves like they did the first time.all i would say is give them time..by all acounts they never expected this gamee to go f2p from what i read..i maybe wrong.

    The problem with this is TOR really has a very short window of time.  For the most part LOTRO made changes around the margins.  People were mostly satisfied with the original concept.

    Here there are very few on any side happy with the way this went down.  They need immediate cash infusions for this game to flourish.  They aren't going to get it.  And the longer you go, the less relevant you become.  The less relevant you become, the ability to appeal to people declines.

    Really sort of is a downward spiral there's no easy way out from.

  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member
    Originally posted by Ridelynn

    I wouldn't have gone F2P right off the bat.

    The box price was $60, the monthly sub base rate was $15/month.

    The box price was discounted down to $11 recently - a good start. But they never tried anything else before jumping straight to F2P. They had a lot of wiggle room on the price of a sub.

    Something like offering the limited client for free (which they effectively were doing with the trial), with a one-time $10 unlock (or box purchase) - with a $9/mo sub - see how that goes for a bit. If you don't want to pay the sub, you can unlock per-class the storyline and non-group gameplay for $10 ala carte - for the people that basically just see it as a single player game anyway. Pay the sub, you get all classes, drop the sub, you get your current characters plus one additional class without having to buy an unlock.

    In the mean time, the real root of the problem isn't with the box or sub fee, or even with the cash shop. The root of the problem is with the game itself. So you have some room to maneuver on the price side, but if you DONT FIX THE GAME IN THE FIRST PLACE - it doesn't do you any good. So this is what I would really do differently - work on fixing the problems with the game. Rather than laying off the entire development team, I would have kept them busy pushing new content as fast as I could get them to implement and test it.

    That's my main worry for this game. I do enjoy the class stories and the group conversations, but it doesn't seem like they're developing the game enough for subscribers to stay subscribed after they exhuast the content. I wonder whatever happened to  having constant updates to the class stories and etc?

  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member
    Originally posted by Deewe
    Originally posted by nate1980

    ...how would you of done it? K

    Easy:

     

     

    Originally posted by Deewe

    Let's start with the obvious:

     

    The actual model for TOR F2P system is miss which hits a summit with making people pay for UI elements like quick slot bars.

     

    Now here's how the model should have been designed:

    • Provide all the tools needed to enjoy the content to the player for free.
    • Have first steps of the story element free for all the classes.
    • Do not restict players on basic choices (Ex: allow players to create only 2 characters but with any of the species for free).
    • Set a very low fee for purchaseable item, consumables.
    • Do not restrict some items to the random packs only

     

    The main idea driving the system would be hook the players in game with all the bells and whistles and have them pay for convenience items, quests hubs and fluff like pets, new gear skins/meshes. For the PvP, Operations, space missions have them (eventually) unlock them by bracket levels with a one time purchase.

     

    Make sure not to set the pricing too high and here's where the real trick kicks in.

    Have the pricing model setting the prices so low that players won't even feel like spending money at all.

    While the quests hubs could be in the $5 range all the rest should be under $1

    Recommending a piece of gear @ $0.90, no more and  consumables $0.10-$0.15

     

    You want players to feel spoiled. This way you'll get more money by having hundred of thousands people spending happily a few bucks than trying to milk players with the actual fees. Also think about the word of mouth you would get: free advertizing = more customers

    For prices set at  $0.10, $0.90 people will hardly hesitate before buying stuff at all, in the end spending much more than with a more obvious rip-off system.

     

    All in all think coke not Ferrari.

     

    D.

    I agree

  • iceman00iceman00 Westland, MIPosts: 1,363Member
    Originally posted by nate1980
    Originally posted by Ridelynn

    I wouldn't have gone F2P right off the bat.

    The box price was $60, the monthly sub base rate was $15/month.

    The box price was discounted down to $11 recently - a good start. But they never tried anything else before jumping straight to F2P. They had a lot of wiggle room on the price of a sub.

    Something like offering the limited client for free (which they effectively were doing with the trial), with a one-time $10 unlock (or box purchase) - with a $9/mo sub - see how that goes for a bit. If you don't want to pay the sub, you can unlock per-class the storyline and non-group gameplay for $10 ala carte - for the people that basically just see it as a single player game anyway. Pay the sub, you get all classes, drop the sub, you get your current characters plus one additional class without having to buy an unlock.

    In the mean time, the real root of the problem isn't with the box or sub fee, or even with the cash shop. The root of the problem is with the game itself. So you have some room to maneuver on the price side, but if you DONT FIX THE GAME IN THE FIRST PLACE - it doesn't do you any good. So this is what I would really do differently - work on fixing the problems with the game. Rather than laying off the entire development team, I would have kept them busy pushing new content as fast as I could get them to implement and test it.

    That's my main worry for this game. I do enjoy the class stories and the group conversations, but it doesn't seem like they're developing the game enough for subscribers to stay subscribed after they exhuast the content. I wonder whatever happened to  having constant updates to the class stories and etc?

    Budgetary realities.  They didn't go F2P because it would lead to expanded profits.  They went F2P as a last chance at breaking even.  That stuff might come later, but only once they recoup their investment and offer a sensible return to their investors.

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