Yeah its a minimal power upgrade with a decent time investment required. Its just something for heavy PvE'ers to work towards. Nothing to have a hissy fit over.
I'm asking this as an honest question and not as a trolling attempt. Why does everyone think ascended gear is such a horrible thing for the average GW 2 player? From everything I've read, this gear will only be necessary for a very small section of the game. It won't affect your ability to explore the world, play most of the dungeons, or effectively PVP.
I get that ArenaNet talked a lot of smack about "there is no endgame," but if you looked at GW 1 there were several "elite" areas like Realm of Torment and The Deep/Urgoz's Warren that appealed to a very small number of elite dungeon runners. Heck there was a time with the Factions dungeons where you had to be in an elite guild just to access those areas. None of that affected my ability to beat missions, grind titles, or play in team arenas.
So if you're against the new gear, what is your biggest fear? Is it imbalancing WVW, preventing most players from progressing, or creating a sense of elitism in the community?
Ever since the GW2 manifesto, many players have used the argument for "We just don't want players to grind" as a reason to quit and bash WoW and its clones. Now that GW2 has it too, players are forced to reconcile this. regardless of how major or minor, it exists. Now players are forced to place GW2 into the same category as WoW or to find the difference between WoW's gear grind and GW2's gear grind and find a way to make "We just don't want players to grind" subjective. Unfortunately, "We just don't want players to grind" is not really subjective without operating in some level of denial.
For one, Anet never said "We just don't want players to grind." Apparently some misguided fools tricked themselves into believing that. Anet did say "We just don't want players to have to grind". There is a big difference. Unlike WoW and its cronies, you are not required to grind constantly for better gear in GW2. But you can if you want to.
...and....if the gear you're looking for naturally drops while you are playing the "precursor" content, where's the problem? If Ascended gear, or the materials to make it, drops while you are playing the game - higher end zones, beginning areas of Fractals, etc. - then how is it a grind?
So, tell me, how is "not having to grind" a form of denial? How does "not having to grind" make GW2 the same as WoW?
Anet said "we don't want players to have to grind for stats.Grind should be reserved for cosmethic."
When I wathed the video, they said. "I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. YAY!, I swung a sword again. We just don't want players to grind". Maybe that's not word for word, but they did say it.
I stand corrected. However, considering that before and after this video was released their mantra was "We don't want players to have to grind", I'd consider that one a mistake.
But, maybe that's just me being in denial. I figure that GW1 had a bunch of optional grind, why wouldn't GW2? The biggest difference to me is that I don't have to grind to get necessary gear. And so far, I have yet to see Ascended gear as being a) necessary - unless you want to do one specific thing in the game - and b) not really a grind anyway.
Well that one necessary thing is a new content so ofcourse everyone would want to do it. Other than that there has been no changes to those who enjoy W vW so all you are left with is finishing the new lvl 80 zone and go back to grinding plinx as far as PVE is concerned.
GW2 isn't that special snowflake by the way. In every other MMO also you don't need to keep doing the new dungeons or raids only because they are being added to the game and yet many call it necessary grind.
I'm asking this as an honest question and not as a trolling attempt. Why does everyone think ascended gear is such a horrible thing for the average GW 2 player? From everything I've read, this gear will only be necessary for a very small section of the game. It won't affect your ability to explore the world, play most of the dungeons, or effectively PVP.
I get that ArenaNet talked a lot of smack about "there is no endgame," but if you looked at GW 1 there were several "elite" areas like Realm of Torment and The Deep/Urgoz's Warren that appealed to a very small number of elite dungeon runners. Heck there was a time with the Factions dungeons where you had to be in an elite guild just to access those areas. None of that affected my ability to beat missions, grind titles, or play in team arenas.
So if you're against the new gear, what is your biggest fear? Is it imbalancing WVW, preventing most players from progressing, or creating a sense of elitism in the community?
Ever since the GW2 manifesto, many players have used the argument for "We just don't want players to grind" as a reason to quit and bash WoW and its clones. Now that GW2 has it too, players are forced to reconcile this. regardless of how major or minor, it exists. Now players are forced to place GW2 into the same category as WoW or to find the difference between WoW's gear grind and GW2's gear grind and find a way to make "We just don't want players to grind" subjective. Unfortunately, "We just don't want players to grind" is not really subjective without operating in some level of denial.
For one, Anet never said "We just don't want players to grind." Apparently some misguided fools tricked themselves into believing that. Anet did say "We just don't want players to have to grind". There is a big difference. Unlike WoW and its cronies, you are not required to grind constantly for better gear in GW2. But you can if you want to.
...and....if the gear you're looking for naturally drops while you are playing the "precursor" content, where's the problem? If Ascended gear, or the materials to make it, drops while you are playing the game - higher end zones, beginning areas of Fractals, etc. - then how is it a grind?
So, tell me, how is "not having to grind" a form of denial? How does "not having to grind" make GW2 the same as WoW?
Anet said "we don't want players to have to grind for stats.Grind should be reserved for cosmethic."
When I wathed the video, they said. "I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. YAY!, I swung a sword again. We just don't want players to grind". Maybe that's not word for word, but they did say it.
I stand corrected. However, considering that before and after this video was released their mantra was "We don't want players to have to grind", I'd consider that one a mistake.
But, maybe that's just me being in denial. I figure that GW1 had a bunch of optional grind, why wouldn't GW2? The biggest difference to me is that I don't have to grind to get necessary gear. And so far, I have yet to see Ascended gear as being a) necessary - unless you want to do one specific thing in the game - and b) not really a grind anyway.
GW1 didn't have a grind for max stats.
Acquiring a max damage weapon or max armor was fairly trivial - just by levelling you would have the resources to do so.
That argument of max stats not being require is equal to the argument that you don't need to grind gear unless you want to do that particular piece of content called raid.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
So.....if you have such a problem with Ascended gear, skip it. Work toward Legendaries instead.
Personally i don´t have a problem with ascended gear itself... my biggest complaint is that now people cannot join any group to do the dungeon since we are all split up in levels... LFG lvl 7 Fractals..... LFG lvl 12 Fractals....
In few weeks it´ll be a nightmare to try to find a group for lower levels..... I´m having a hard time myself trying to keep up with my friends due to work & disconnection problems on the dungeon
I haven't been rushing, but I still got to level 80 eventually. I even tried like hell to avoid it, by making lots of alts.. but now, here I am, and find myself on the verge of quitting, because there's nothing I want to do. Just feels like a dead end. I wish they had some sandbox or fluff type RP things to do, at least. Or maybe PvP that was more like RvR, but I know that'll never happen. They need *something* other than cosmetics for people to work towards, longterm.
Seems like ANet is completely clueless when it comes to the concept of making gameplay rewarding. Even pac-man had levels, and people played to get to the next one, until they got to the end. Progression is a concept that's been a part of video games as long as they've existed.
Cutting that away in the name of fun, is like saying candy doesn't need sugar, because its candy.
You dont like the new zone? or the dungeon??
I have one level 80 ranger, im still doing map completion with that guy while leveling a Necro & Eng.
Actually no. I don't like instances, and the new island seems to be the most boring zone in the entire game. Even if I did like it though, what am I going to do, just keep killing stuff there, for no reason? That's like improving the carrot on the stick paradigm, by simply removing the carrot. Yay, now we just have a stick. Thanks, ANet, good luck with that.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I'm asking this as an honest question and not as a trolling attempt. Why does everyone think ascended gear is such a horrible thing for the average GW 2 player? From everything I've read, this gear will only be necessary for a very small section of the game. It won't affect your ability to explore the world, play most of the dungeons, or effectively PVP.
I get that ArenaNet talked a lot of smack about "there is no endgame," but if you looked at GW 1 there were several "elite" areas like Realm of Torment and The Deep/Urgoz's Warren that appealed to a very small number of elite dungeon runners. Heck there was a time with the Factions dungeons where you had to be in an elite guild just to access those areas. None of that affected my ability to beat missions, grind titles, or play in team arenas.
So if you're against the new gear, what is your biggest fear? Is it imbalancing WVW, preventing most players from progressing, or creating a sense of elitism in the community?
Ever since the GW2 manifesto, many players have used the argument for "We just don't want players to grind" as a reason to quit and bash WoW and its clones. Now that GW2 has it too, players are forced to reconcile this. regardless of how major or minor, it exists. Now players are forced to place GW2 into the same category as WoW or to find the difference between WoW's gear grind and GW2's gear grind and find a way to make "We just don't want players to grind" subjective. Unfortunately, "We just don't want players to grind" is not really subjective without operating in some level of denial.
For one, Anet never said "We just don't want players to grind." Apparently some misguided fools tricked themselves into believing that. Anet did say "We just don't want players to have to grind". There is a big difference. Unlike WoW and its cronies, you are not required to grind constantly for better gear in GW2. But you can if you want to.
...and....if the gear you're looking for naturally drops while you are playing the "precursor" content, where's the problem? If Ascended gear, or the materials to make it, drops while you are playing the game - higher end zones, beginning areas of Fractals, etc. - then how is it a grind?
So, tell me, how is "not having to grind" a form of denial? How does "not having to grind" make GW2 the same as WoW?
Anet said "we don't want players to have to grind for stats.Grind should be reserved for cosmethic."
When I wathed the video, they said. "I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. YAY!, I swung a sword again. We just don't want players to grind". Maybe that's not word for word, but they did say it.
I stand corrected. However, considering that before and after this video was released their mantra was "We don't want players to have to grind", I'd consider that one a mistake.
But, maybe that's just me being in denial. I figure that GW1 had a bunch of optional grind, why wouldn't GW2? The biggest difference to me is that I don't have to grind to get necessary gear. And so far, I have yet to see Ascended gear as being a) necessary - unless you want to do one specific thing in the game - and b) not really a grind anyway.
Well that one necessary thing is a new content so ofcourse everyone would want to do it. Other than that there has been no changes to those who enjoy W vW so all you are left with is finishing the new lvl 80 zone and go back to grinding plinx as far as PVE is concerned.
GW2 isn't that special snowflake by the way. In every other MMO also you don't need to keep doing the new dungeons or raids only because they are being added to the game and yet many call it necessary grind.
In Rift, you actually have to, if you want to do 20 man Raids. That is because the steps between equipment levels is huge - in 1-2% but 20-40%. Makes it a total grind to play.
I'm asking this as an honest question and not as a trolling attempt. Why does everyone think ascended gear is such a horrible thing for the average GW 2 player? From everything I've read, this gear will only be necessary for a very small section of the game. It won't affect your ability to explore the world, play most of the dungeons, or effectively PVP.
I get that ArenaNet talked a lot of smack about "there is no endgame," but if you looked at GW 1 there were several "elite" areas like Realm of Torment and The Deep/Urgoz's Warren that appealed to a very small number of elite dungeon runners. Heck there was a time with the Factions dungeons where you had to be in an elite guild just to access those areas. None of that affected my ability to beat missions, grind titles, or play in team arenas.
So if you're against the new gear, what is your biggest fear? Is it imbalancing WVW, preventing most players from progressing, or creating a sense of elitism in the community?
Ever since the GW2 manifesto, many players have used the argument for "We just don't want players to grind" as a reason to quit and bash WoW and its clones. Now that GW2 has it too, players are forced to reconcile this. regardless of how major or minor, it exists. Now players are forced to place GW2 into the same category as WoW or to find the difference between WoW's gear grind and GW2's gear grind and find a way to make "We just don't want players to grind" subjective. Unfortunately, "We just don't want players to grind" is not really subjective without operating in some level of denial.
For one, Anet never said "We just don't want players to grind." Apparently some misguided fools tricked themselves into believing that. Anet did say "We just don't want players to have to grind". There is a big difference. Unlike WoW and its cronies, you are not required to grind constantly for better gear in GW2. But you can if you want to.
...and....if the gear you're looking for naturally drops while you are playing the "precursor" content, where's the problem? If Ascended gear, or the materials to make it, drops while you are playing the game - higher end zones, beginning areas of Fractals, etc. - then how is it a grind?
So, tell me, how is "not having to grind" a form of denial? How does "not having to grind" make GW2 the same as WoW?
Anet said "we don't want players to have to grind for stats.Grind should be reserved for cosmethic."
Ok....where's the grind?
"if the gear you're looking for naturally drops...."
Would you have been ok with Ascended gear if it was there when the game was first released? If so, why is it a problem now? If they don't make any new tiers in the future, where's the problem?
Depends on how much time it is required to grind for the item.
Depends on how you can obtain them.
It would at least been a known quantity from the beggining.
And in the future you will be saying "What if Super Ascended was in the game from the beggining? What if they don't introduce a new tier on top of super ascended, where is the problem".
But that is not the full story.
The story is Anet introduced Ascended items because:
1) A gap between exotics and legendary. -> Now there is a gap between ascended and legendary. Curiously the first items have no legendary couter-part. Funny, isn't it? maybe they could have introduced legendary armor and back slots since amulets and rings have no 3D model;
2) Players have complained that there is nothing to after level 80 and acquiring exotic items. The same players will say there is nothing to do once they acquire ascended items.
Now, you might need to see what happens to the glass that is knocked over the edge of the table before declaring it will fall to the floor. I'll just say the glass will fall to the floor so there is no need to knock it.
No, what you're saying is one glass gets knocked to the floor, and that means that all other glasses to follow will get knocked to the floor. You are proclaiming a pattern based on one instance.
Legendaries and Ascended will enjoy the same stats, so again, Legendaries are only cosmetic. Ascended is meant to be exactly between Exotic and Legendary in terms of time, so adding another level in between would only cause an imbalance of time. Which would of course be a pattern and an issue. Proclaiming it both at this point is very premature, I think.
Not all of the Ascended and Legendary gear is out yet. They are still implementing this stuff. They have already said that repeatedly.
As for your "Super Ascended" remark, no, I wouldn't say that. Because then there is actually a pattern. A bad one. If they were to add a tier without an expansion (and maybe even then.....), then yes, I will say pretty much the same things you are now. I'm just not ready to condemn Anet at tne mere hint of abstract possibilities without a pattern being actually established. I see many people are willing to, though.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
I haven't been rushing, but I still got to level 80 eventually. I even tried like hell to avoid it, by making lots of alts.. but now, here I am, and find myself on the verge of quitting, because there's nothing I want to do. Just feels like a dead end. I wish they had some sandbox or fluff type RP things to do, at least. Or maybe PvP that was more like RvR, but I know that'll never happen. They need *something* other than cosmetics for people to work towards, longterm.
Seems like ANet is completely clueless when it comes to the concept of making gameplay rewarding. Even pac-man had levels, and people played to get to the next one, until they got to the end. Progression is a concept that's been a part of video games as long as they've existed.
Cutting that away in the name of fun, is like saying candy doesn't need sugar, because its candy.
You dont like the new zone? or the dungeon??
I have one level 80 ranger, im still doing map completion with that guy while leveling a Necro & Eng.
Actually no. I don't like instances, and the new island seems to be the most boring zone in the entire game. Even if I did like it though, what am I going to do, just keep killing stuff there, for no reason? That's like improving the carrot on the stick paradigm, by simply removing the carrot. Yay, now we just have a stick. Thanks, ANet, good luck with that.
So... you're playing a MMORPG and you don't like dungeons or running open world content? Why are you playing?
I'm asking this as an honest question and not as a trolling attempt. Why does everyone think ascended gear is such a horrible thing for the average GW 2 player? From everything I've read, this gear will only be necessary for a very small section of the game. It won't affect your ability to explore the world, play most of the dungeons, or effectively PVP.
I get that ArenaNet talked a lot of smack about "there is no endgame," but if you looked at GW 1 there were several "elite" areas like Realm of Torment and The Deep/Urgoz's Warren that appealed to a very small number of elite dungeon runners. Heck there was a time with the Factions dungeons where you had to be in an elite guild just to access those areas. None of that affected my ability to beat missions, grind titles, or play in team arenas.
So if you're against the new gear, what is your biggest fear? Is it imbalancing WVW, preventing most players from progressing, or creating a sense of elitism in the community?
Ever since the GW2 manifesto, many players have used the argument for "We just don't want players to grind" as a reason to quit and bash WoW and its clones. Now that GW2 has it too, players are forced to reconcile this. regardless of how major or minor, it exists. Now players are forced to place GW2 into the same category as WoW or to find the difference between WoW's gear grind and GW2's gear grind and find a way to make "We just don't want players to grind" subjective. Unfortunately, "We just don't want players to grind" is not really subjective without operating in some level of denial.
For one, Anet never said "We just don't want players to grind." Apparently some misguided fools tricked themselves into believing that. Anet did say "We just don't want players to have to grind". There is a big difference. Unlike WoW and its cronies, you are not required to grind constantly for better gear in GW2. But you can if you want to.
...and....if the gear you're looking for naturally drops while you are playing the "precursor" content, where's the problem? If Ascended gear, or the materials to make it, drops while you are playing the game - higher end zones, beginning areas of Fractals, etc. - then how is it a grind?
So, tell me, how is "not having to grind" a form of denial? How does "not having to grind" make GW2 the same as WoW?
Anet said "we don't want players to have to grind for stats.Grind should be reserved for cosmethic."
When I wathed the video, they said. "I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. YAY!, I swung a sword again. We just don't want players to grind". Maybe that's not word for word, but they did say it.
I stand corrected. However, considering that before and after this video was released their mantra was "We don't want players to have to grind", I'd consider that one a mistake.
But, maybe that's just me being in denial. I figure that GW1 had a bunch of optional grind, why wouldn't GW2? The biggest difference to me is that I don't have to grind to get necessary gear. And so far, I have yet to see Ascended gear as being a) necessary - unless you want to do one specific thing in the game - and b) not really a grind anyway.
GW1 didn't have a grind for max stats.
Acquiring a max damage weapon or max armor was fairly trivial - just by levelling you would have the resources to do so.
That argument of max stats not being require is equal to the argument that you don't need to grind gear unless you want to do that particular piece of content called raid.
You had to grind if you wanted FoW armor or any of the Elite armors (for looks not stats). So saying there was no grind in GW1 is not really true. Also there were RAID dungeons in GW1 - FoW, UW, The Deep, Urgoz's Warren, The Domain of Anguish (part of it really).
Actually no. I don't like instances, and the new island seems to be the most boring zone in the entire game. Even if I did like it though, what am I going to do, just keep killing stuff there, for no reason? That's like improving the carrot on the stick paradigm, by simply removing the carrot. Yay, now we just have a stick. Thanks, ANet, good luck with that.
So... you're playing a MMORPG and you don't like dungeons or running open world content? Why are you playing?
Well, I'm not anymore. That's kind of my point.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Depends on how much time it is required to grind for the item.
Depends on how you can obtain them.
It would at least been a known quantity from the beggining.
And in the future you will be saying "What if Super Ascended was in the game from the beggining? What if they don't introduce a new tier on top of super ascended, where is the problem".
But that is not the full story.
The story is Anet introduced Ascended items because:
1) A gap between exotics and legendary. -> Now there is a gap between ascended and legendary. Curiously the first items have no legendary couter-part. Funny, isn't it? maybe they could have introduced legendary armor and back slots since amulets and rings have no 3D model;
2) Players have complained that there is nothing to after level 80 and acquiring exotic items. The same players will say there is nothing to do once they acquire ascended items.
Now, you might need to see what happens to the glass that is knocked over the edge of the table before declaring it will fall to the floor. I'll just say the glass will fall to the floor so there is no need to knock it.
No, what you're saying is one glass gets knocked to the floor, and that means that all other glasses to follow will get knocked to the floor. You are proclaiming a pattern based on one instance.
Legendaries and Ascended will enjoy the same stats, so again, Legendaries are only cosmetic. Ascended is meant to be exactly between Exotic and Legendary in terms of time, so adding another level in between would only cause an imbalance of time. Which would of course be a pattern and an issue. Proclaiming it both at this point is very premature, I think.
Not all of the Ascended and Legendary gear is out yet. They are still implementing this stuff. They have already said that repeatedly.
As for your "Super Ascended" remark, no, I wouldn't say that. Because then there is actually a pattern. A bad one. If they were to add a tier without an expansion (and maybe even then.....), then yes, I will say pretty much the same things you are now. I'm just not ready to condemn Anet at tne mere hint of abstract possibilities without a pattern being actually established. I see many people are willing to, though.
No what I'm saying is that all the glasses will fall because there is a thing called gravity.
I'm saying that if they added a new tier of items to satisfy the player that like gear progression they will have to do so again because those players will require more progression afterhaving ascended items.
How do I know that, because over a decade of history of MMORPGs to draw from.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I'm asking this as an honest question and not as a trolling attempt. Why does everyone think ascended gear is such a horrible thing for the average GW 2 player? From everything I've read, this gear will only be necessary for a very small section of the game. It won't affect your ability to explore the world, play most of the dungeons, or effectively PVP.
I get that ArenaNet talked a lot of smack about "there is no endgame," but if you looked at GW 1 there were several "elite" areas like Realm of Torment and The Deep/Urgoz's Warren that appealed to a very small number of elite dungeon runners. Heck there was a time with the Factions dungeons where you had to be in an elite guild just to access those areas. None of that affected my ability to beat missions, grind titles, or play in team arenas.
So if you're against the new gear, what is your biggest fear? Is it imbalancing WVW, preventing most players from progressing, or creating a sense of elitism in the community?
Ever since the GW2 manifesto, many players have used the argument for "We just don't want players to grind" as a reason to quit and bash WoW and its clones. Now that GW2 has it too, players are forced to reconcile this. regardless of how major or minor, it exists. Now players are forced to place GW2 into the same category as WoW or to find the difference between WoW's gear grind and GW2's gear grind and find a way to make "We just don't want players to grind" subjective. Unfortunately, "We just don't want players to grind" is not really subjective without operating in some level of denial.
For one, Anet never said "We just don't want players to grind." Apparently some misguided fools tricked themselves into believing that. Anet did say "We just don't want players to have to grind". There is a big difference. Unlike WoW and its cronies, you are not required to grind constantly for better gear in GW2. But you can if you want to.
...and....if the gear you're looking for naturally drops while you are playing the "precursor" content, where's the problem? If Ascended gear, or the materials to make it, drops while you are playing the game - higher end zones, beginning areas of Fractals, etc. - then how is it a grind?
So, tell me, how is "not having to grind" a form of denial? How does "not having to grind" make GW2 the same as WoW?
Anet said "we don't want players to have to grind for stats.Grind should be reserved for cosmethic."
When I wathed the video, they said. "I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. YAY!, I swung a sword again. We just don't want players to grind". Maybe that's not word for word, but they did say it.
I stand corrected. However, considering that before and after this video was released their mantra was "We don't want players to have to grind", I'd consider that one a mistake.
But, maybe that's just me being in denial. I figure that GW1 had a bunch of optional grind, why wouldn't GW2? The biggest difference to me is that I don't have to grind to get necessary gear. And so far, I have yet to see Ascended gear as being a) necessary - unless you want to do one specific thing in the game - and b) not really a grind anyway.
GW1 didn't have a grind for max stats.
Acquiring a max damage weapon or max armor was fairly trivial - just by levelling you would have the resources to do so.
That argument of max stats not being require is equal to the argument that you don't need to grind gear unless you want to do that particular piece of content called raid.
The Fractals are only one part of a larger "endgame". Since Anet has said they will be adding content regularly, and just by looking at the map in game, the Fractals will remain a relatively small part. Unlike raids, which in most games quickly becomes the ONLY thing to do. And, with raids, if you don't do them in most games like that, you can't compete in things like PvP. If you have Exotics and/or Legendaries, you don't need Ascended gear to be competitive anywhere else in the game.
Like I've said before, you don't really even need to grind (as in do the same thing over and over) to get Ascended items. They, or their materials, drop naturally while playing the earlier parts of the dungeons.
And, yes, I know GW1 didn't have a grind for max stats. I said that already.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Actually no. I don't like instances, and the new island seems to be the most boring zone in the entire game. Even if I did like it though, what am I going to do, just keep killing stuff there, for no reason? That's like improving the carrot on the stick paradigm, by simply removing the carrot. Yay, now we just have a stick. Thanks, ANet, good luck with that.
So... you're playing a MMORPG and you don't like dungeons or running open world content? Why are you playing?
Well, I'm not anymore. That's kind of my point.
So you completely quit playing MMOs or decided to go play EVE? because the crap thats bothering you in GW2 is in every themepark MMO.
Depends on how much time it is required to grind for the item.
Depends on how you can obtain them.
It would at least been a known quantity from the beggining.
And in the future you will be saying "What if Super Ascended was in the game from the beggining? What if they don't introduce a new tier on top of super ascended, where is the problem".
But that is not the full story.
The story is Anet introduced Ascended items because:
1) A gap between exotics and legendary. -> Now there is a gap between ascended and legendary. Curiously the first items have no legendary couter-part. Funny, isn't it? maybe they could have introduced legendary armor and back slots since amulets and rings have no 3D model;
2) Players have complained that there is nothing to after level 80 and acquiring exotic items. The same players will say there is nothing to do once they acquire ascended items.
Now, you might need to see what happens to the glass that is knocked over the edge of the table before declaring it will fall to the floor. I'll just say the glass will fall to the floor so there is no need to knock it.
No, what you're saying is one glass gets knocked to the floor, and that means that all other glasses to follow will get knocked to the floor. You are proclaiming a pattern based on one instance.
Legendaries and Ascended will enjoy the same stats, so again, Legendaries are only cosmetic. Ascended is meant to be exactly between Exotic and Legendary in terms of time, so adding another level in between would only cause an imbalance of time. Which would of course be a pattern and an issue. Proclaiming it both at this point is very premature, I think.
Not all of the Ascended and Legendary gear is out yet. They are still implementing this stuff. They have already said that repeatedly.
As for your "Super Ascended" remark, no, I wouldn't say that. Because then there is actually a pattern. A bad one. If they were to add a tier without an expansion (and maybe even then.....), then yes, I will say pretty much the same things you are now. I'm just not ready to condemn Anet at tne mere hint of abstract possibilities without a pattern being actually established. I see many people are willing to, though.
No what I'm saying is that all the glasses will fall because there is a thing called gravity.
I'm saying that if they added a new tier of items to satisfy the player that like gear progression they will have to do so again because those players will require more progression afterhaving ascended items.
How do I know that, because over a decade of history of MMORPGs to draw from.
Those same complaints were made about GW1 and yet Anet never made it a gear/power progression game. THAT's the experience I'm drawing from. I truly believe that they are different enough as a company to not go back on their philosophy. I don't think they have yet. If they do establish that pattern, then I would probably stop playing the game.
My whole point has been that people are jumping the gun on this without any real evidence. All they are doing is overlaying past experiece onto something and assuming it will be just like before. Anet, never gave anyone that past experience, so maybe we shouldn't jump to conclusions yet.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
I'm asking this as an honest question and not as a trolling attempt. Why does everyone think ascended gear is such a horrible thing for the average GW 2 player? From everything I've read, this gear will only be necessary for a very small section of the game. It won't affect your ability to explore the world, play most of the dungeons, or effectively PVP.
I get that ArenaNet talked a lot of smack about "there is no endgame," but if you looked at GW 1 there were several "elite" areas like Realm of Torment and The Deep/Urgoz's Warren that appealed to a very small number of elite dungeon runners. Heck there was a time with the Factions dungeons where you had to be in an elite guild just to access those areas. None of that affected my ability to beat missions, grind titles, or play in team arenas.
So if you're against the new gear, what is your biggest fear? Is it imbalancing WVW, preventing most players from progressing, or creating a sense of elitism in the community?
Ever since the GW2 manifesto, many players have used the argument for "We just don't want players to grind" as a reason to quit and bash WoW and its clones. Now that GW2 has it too, players are forced to reconcile this. regardless of how major or minor, it exists. Now players are forced to place GW2 into the same category as WoW or to find the difference between WoW's gear grind and GW2's gear grind and find a way to make "We just don't want players to grind" subjective. Unfortunately, "We just don't want players to grind" is not really subjective without operating in some level of denial.
For one, Anet never said "We just don't want players to grind." Apparently some misguided fools tricked themselves into believing that. Anet did say "We just don't want players to have to grind". There is a big difference. Unlike WoW and its cronies, you are not required to grind constantly for better gear in GW2. But you can if you want to.
...and....if the gear you're looking for naturally drops while you are playing the "precursor" content, where's the problem? If Ascended gear, or the materials to make it, drops while you are playing the game - higher end zones, beginning areas of Fractals, etc. - then how is it a grind?
So, tell me, how is "not having to grind" a form of denial? How does "not having to grind" make GW2 the same as WoW?
Anet said "we don't want players to have to grind for stats.Grind should be reserved for cosmethic."
When I wathed the video, they said. "I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. YAY!, I swung a sword again. We just don't want players to grind". Maybe that's not word for word, but they did say it.
I stand corrected. However, considering that before and after this video was released their mantra was "We don't want players to have to grind", I'd consider that one a mistake.
But, maybe that's just me being in denial. I figure that GW1 had a bunch of optional grind, why wouldn't GW2? The biggest difference to me is that I don't have to grind to get necessary gear. And so far, I have yet to see Ascended gear as being a) necessary - unless you want to do one specific thing in the game - and b) not really a grind anyway.
GW1 didn't have a grind for max stats.
Acquiring a max damage weapon or max armor was fairly trivial - just by levelling you would have the resources to do so.
That argument of max stats not being require is equal to the argument that you don't need to grind gear unless you want to do that particular piece of content called raid.
The Fractals are only one part of a larger "endgame". Since Anet has said they will be adding content regularly, and just by looking at the map in game, the Fractals will remain a relatively small part. Unlike raids, which in most games quickly becomes the ONLY thing to do. And, with raids, if you don't do them in most games like that, you can't compete in things like PvP. If you have Exotics and/or Legendaries, you don't need Ascended gear to be competitive anywhere else in the game.
Like I've said before, you don't really even need to grind (as in do the same thing over and over) to get Ascended items. They, or their materials, drop naturally while playing the earlier parts of the dungeons.
And, yes, I know GW1 didn't have a grind for max stats. I said that already.
I relazed that from your posts - was just stating for others who haven't played GW1.
The one thing that was fun with those areas in GW1 - was running unique builds through. The guild I belong to did an ALL YELLOWWAY build through The Deep once and that was fun as heck (Yellow meaning Warriors and Paragons only - W/P and P/W builds - quite fun).
Acquiring a max damage weapon or max armor was fairly trivial - just by levelling you would have the resources to do so.
That argument of max stats not being require is equal to the argument that you don't need to grind gear unless you want to do that particular piece of content called raid.
You had to grind if you wanted FoW armor or any of the Elite armors (for looks not stats). So saying there was no grind in GW1 is not really true. Also there were RAID dungeons in GW1 - FoW, UW, The Deep, Urgoz's Warren, The Domain of Anguish (part of it really).
Is there an echo in here?
I say you don't need to grind for stats in GW1, you say I don't have to grind for stats in GW1.
UW, FOW, DoA are party size 8, the same as all dungeons in eye of the north and the same as the majority of areas in GW1 (asinde prophecies).
Urgoz and The Deep could be considered a raid, i guess, with a party of 12.
Still, 1 player and 7 heroes can clear all of them (Urgoz and Deep are easier with 2 players and 10 heroes), and I did.
Still seems a non sequiteur.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
The whole argument that Ascended Gear is optional doesn't hold. The counter to it was used over and over to trash many other MMOs since GW2 announced thier Manifesto. WoW, Rift, EQ, AO, the list goes on. Do you "NEED" the BiS gear? That's the argument and for as long as I've been reading about GW2, The argument that it's optional in WoW was put down and burried. But now that the shoe is on the other foot, the argument resurfaces. So what is it? Are gear grinds optional now? Because if that is the case, GW2 has a long way to go to catch up to the pack.
Seems to me, this is a kneejerk response by ANET to keep players playing. BCBully had a post once that made me laugh. He said "One of GW2's best features is that you don't have to play it." This was in response to statements by people saying they didn't feel guilty about stepping away from GW2 and returning at a later time. While his comment was made to be sarcastic, it is true that GW2 was supposed to be built around that idea. Only now, that idea is being challenged. I have to wonder if fewer people are logging in than what ANET is letting on. Afterall, if it ain't broke, why fix it? (unless it really is broke)
Originally posted by IPolygon Originally posted by Torgrim What we had before wasTier 1: ExoticTier 3: LegendaryWhat we got now isTier 1: ExoticTier 2: AscendedTier 3: LegendaryAnet just filled in the blanks for those who don't have the time or desire to farm for legendary and I find that was a smart move.
That is not true. Exotics and Legendaries had the exact same stats. The only difference was the grind to get a Legendary. It was a dumb move, there never was a gap, since Legendaries were purely cosmetical upgrades.
With the introduction of a new tier you are outgeared by about 8% or more from those who have reached the next tier. Note that 8% is only one piece, so it culminates to a stat increase of more than 96% (6 trinket slots, 6 armor slots) overall. Of course you will do better than anyone equipped with a lower tier.
Needless to say Ascended gear is another grind as someone found out http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13gj0p/ascended_gear_and_infusions_how_to_make_them_and/ . Feel free to make up your mind, but the gear grind is there and probably as good as Aion's. Before the update, grind for gear was mostly optional. You had to save a little karma for full exotics, but that's easy to get and could work towards a cosmetic upgrade. Now with Ascended gear, grind becomes mandatory and Ascended gear will make all prior content obsolete/too easy. Thanks to a dumb down-scaling system.
Yes I know they are just cosmetic and don't really add that much of extra stats overall, but what do you propose, no grind at all, how will you set your goals to strive for?
Besides Anet is not done with Ascended and legendary, who know how it will be in the future for the better or worse is yet to be seen but for now I don't see the hassle and drama queen babbling.
I played GW1 for 7 years that based item progression solely on the hunt for new skins. Worked for me and many others. Of course, I don't know what the future will bring except new Ascended gear is incoming. I rather pull the plug sooner than later.
Originally posted by Zeus.CM
Originally posted by Tredvolt Originally posted by IPolygon With the introduction of a new tier you are outgeared by about 8% or more from those who have reached the next tier. Note that 8% is only one piece, so it culminates to a stat increase of more than 96% (6 trinket slots, 6 armor slots) overall.
Quoted for lulz
That guy is so bad at math :P
What stat increase do you think it is then? Fully equipped ofc.
Depends on how much time it is required to grind for the item.
Depends on how you can obtain them.
It would at least been a known quantity from the beggining.
And in the future you will be saying "What if Super Ascended was in the game from the beggining? What if they don't introduce a new tier on top of super ascended, where is the problem".
But that is not the full story.
The story is Anet introduced Ascended items because:
1) A gap between exotics and legendary. -> Now there is a gap between ascended and legendary. Curiously the first items have no legendary couter-part. Funny, isn't it? maybe they could have introduced legendary armor and back slots since amulets and rings have no 3D model;
2) Players have complained that there is nothing to after level 80 and acquiring exotic items. The same players will say there is nothing to do once they acquire ascended items.
Now, you might need to see what happens to the glass that is knocked over the edge of the table before declaring it will fall to the floor. I'll just say the glass will fall to the floor so there is no need to knock it.
No, what you're saying is one glass gets knocked to the floor, and that means that all other glasses to follow will get knocked to the floor. You are proclaiming a pattern based on one instance.
Legendaries and Ascended will enjoy the same stats, so again, Legendaries are only cosmetic. Ascended is meant to be exactly between Exotic and Legendary in terms of time, so adding another level in between would only cause an imbalance of time. Which would of course be a pattern and an issue. Proclaiming it both at this point is very premature, I think.
Not all of the Ascended and Legendary gear is out yet. They are still implementing this stuff. They have already said that repeatedly.
As for your "Super Ascended" remark, no, I wouldn't say that. Because then there is actually a pattern. A bad one. If they were to add a tier without an expansion (and maybe even then.....), then yes, I will say pretty much the same things you are now. I'm just not ready to condemn Anet at tne mere hint of abstract possibilities without a pattern being actually established. I see many people are willing to, though.
No what I'm saying is that all the glasses will fall because there is a thing called gravity.
I'm saying that if they added a new tier of items to satisfy the player that like gear progression they will have to do so again because those players will require more progression afterhaving ascended items.
How do I know that, because over a decade of history of MMORPGs to draw from.
Those same complaints were made about GW1 and yet Anet never made it a gear/power progression game. THAT's the experience I'm drawing from. I truly believe that they are different enough as a company to not go back on their philosophy. I don't think they have yet. If they do establish that pattern, then I would probably stop playing the game.
My whole point has been that people are jumping the gun on this without any real evidence. All they are doing is overlaying past experiece onto something and assuming it will be just like before. Anet, never gave anyone that past experience, so maybe we shouldn't jump to conclusions yet.
Anet never introduced a new tier of items with higher stats in GW1 either.
In fact all the max damage weapons had the same damage,regardless of being white, blue, purple, green or gold.
Ascended items won't be restricted to fractals - they work everywhere and I expect new content to keep dropping new ascended items.
What Anet did with this update is say that the time required to achieve stats parity increased from the time needed to acquire exotics to the time needed to acquire ascended (which is substancially higher).
And once again you guys aren't praising the introductin of ascended items, just trying to minimize them, rationalize them,etc.
And that is pretty much what has been happening everywhere: people that like the game opposed to it, people that like that the game defending Anet although not saying they support the ascended items (except if called to say they defend it) and people that dislike the game saying "See. Every MMORPG needs to follow the same formulas.".
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Content should not be gated by something like gear. It's purely bad game design. People shouldn't be locked out of content period, much less have to go through a linear set of chores before they can get to said content.
And while its only a small set of chores so far, as this game grows eventually there'll be multiple tiers you have to grind before you see new areas.
DAoC managed just fine without ever doing that. Raids were gated by SKILL and CHALLENGE, not by artificial stat barriers.
On top of that, it shows where Arenanets priorities are. They promised this is something they'd never do. And rather than come out and admit to what this is, they tried to play it off like this WASN'T a gear grind.
Meanwhile, their WvW gets no attention, despite it being the part of the game in need of the most.
ROFL!! Yeah WoW with 10 million subs is a bad design...
Yeah that's why every WoW clone has made sooOOOooOOOOOOO much money! Right? RIGHT??
Oh wait, could it be, that WoW is popular not because of its design? And thats why all the games designed the same way have failed? Oops.
And no, RR did not help much in raids. Nor were they requirements. People knowing what they were doing was a lot more important than RRs.
Originally posted by Homitu
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Kalstark
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Content should not be gated by something like gear. It's purely bad game design. People shouldn't be locked out of content period, much less have to go through a linear set of chores before they can get to said content.
And while its only a small set of chores so far, as this game grows eventually there'll be multiple tiers you have to grind before you see new areas.
DAoC managed just fine without ever doing that. Raids were gated by SKILL and CHALLENGE, not by artificial stat barriers.
yeah there will be different tiers but you wont have to complete tier 1 to get tto tier 2 as they've already explained and stated, again i just dont get what the problem is
Any form of tiers are bad. Period.
Second, they also said there'd never be a gear grind, and now there is, so what they promise doesn't mean jack anymore.
And please, stop with the "but its still under legendary tier" tripe. Legendary is cosmetic only. Stop pretending like the new gear doesn't improve stats. It does, 30%.
Your made up 30% stat and your portrayal of opinion as objective fact make the rest of your arguments so much more persuasive.
And your complete lack of a counter argument speaks volumes.
Anet just filled in the blanks for those who don't have the time or desire to farm for legendary and I find that was a smart move.
That is not true. Exotics and Legendaries had the exact same stats. The only difference was the grind to get a Legendary. It was a dumb move, there never was a gap, since Legendaries were purely cosmetical upgrades.
With the introduction of a new tier you are outgeared by about 8% or more from those who have reached the next tier. Note that 8% is only one piece, so it culminates to a stat increase of more than 96% (6 trinket slots, 6 armor slots) overall. Of course you will do better than anyone equipped with a lower tier.
Needless to say Ascended gear is another grind as someone found out http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13gj0p/ascended_gear_and_infusions_how_to_make_them_and/ . Feel free to make up your mind, but the gear grind is there and probably as good as Aion's. Before the update, grind for gear was mostly optional. You had to save a little karma for full exotics, but that's easy to get and could work towards a cosmetic upgrade. Now with Ascended gear, grind becomes mandatory and Ascended gear will make all prior content obsolete/too easy. Thanks to a dumb down-scaling system.
From a pure statistical progression perspective, what we had before was
Tier 1: Exotic/Legendary
What we have now is
Tier 1: Exotic
Tier 2: Ascended/Legendary
There were no "blanks" that objectively existed to be filled in prior to the new update. Any change was an altercation made by Anet as of this patch. When Anet refered a "gap in progression" between exotics and legendaries, they were refering to the gap in player goals. (This was misunderstood by players on the live stream as it was announced. The dev attempted to clarify, but I think players still misunderstand.) Players can obtain their desired full set of exotics extremely easily after reaching level 80. All that's left for them to pursue is a legendary, which Anet intended to be a very long term, gradual goal. With ascended gear, players have new short term goals to keep them motivated.
I'm not going to get into the whole gear grind debate (I don't think it's grindy by any stretch of the imagination, and I did think the game needed more progression motivation.) What I want to correct is your misuse of percentages. If every single item increases in power by 8% (it's actually about 8.8%, so closer to 9%), then your total stat increase from gear increases by...8%. If, on the other hand, you earned only 1 item upgrade that increased the stats from that slot by 8%, and that slot represents about 1/10 of your character's entire stats from gear, then that upgrade will result in a total stat increase from gear of 0.8%.
From a pure statistical progression perspective, what we had before was
Tier 1: Exotic/Legendary
What we have now is
Tier 1: Exotic
Tier 2: Ascended/Legendary
There were no "blanks" that objectively existed to be filled in prior to the new update. Any change was an altercation made by Anet as of this patch. When Anet refered a "gap in progression" between exotics and legendaries, they were refering to the gap in player goals. (This was misunderstood by players on the live stream as it was announced. The dev attempted to clarify, but I think players still misunderstand.) Players can obtain their desired full set of exotics extremely easily after reaching level 80. All that's left for them to pursue is a legendary, which Anet intended to be a very long term, gradual goal. With ascended gear, players have new short term goals to keep them motivated.
I'm not going to get into the whole gear grind debate (I don't think it's grindy by any stretch of the imagination, and I did think the game needed more progression motivation.) What I want to correct is your misuse of percentages. If every single item increases in power by 8% (it's actually about 8.8%, so closer to 9%), then your total stat increase from gear increases by...8%. If, on the other hand, you earned only 1 item upgrade that increased the stats from that slot by 8%, and that slot represents about 1/10 of your character's entire stats from gear, then that upgrade will result in a total stat increase from gear of 0.8%.
Extremely easy, that depends of the set you want.
In fact one of the complaints was that the dungeon sets were to grindy for just a skin reward.
Additionally Anet has boosted several time rewards that allow players to take less time to get their exotic sets of choice.
So no, not all the exotics are easy to obtain.
In fact exotics are only easy to obtain if and only if:
1. You limit yourself to the crafted sets;
2. You limit yourself to one character;
3. You limiti yourself to one single build.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
The actual increase in combat efficiency overall is very small between a fully ascended geared person and a full exotic one percentage wise.
You have to take into account base stats and with some calculations in one stat and with estimating all ascended gear will be equal in terms of how much more they give over exotics you'd land at about a 5% increase, but that is just in one stat and you can only fully improve 3 stats through gear but there are more then 3 stats which means the overall combat effectivness increase is less then 5%.
Comments
Well that one necessary thing is a new content so ofcourse everyone would want to do it. Other than that there has been no changes to those who enjoy W vW so all you are left with is finishing the new lvl 80 zone and go back to grinding plinx as far as PVE is concerned.
GW2 isn't that special snowflake by the way. In every other MMO also you don't need to keep doing the new dungeons or raids only because they are being added to the game and yet many call it necessary grind.
GW1 didn't have a grind for max stats.
Acquiring a max damage weapon or max armor was fairly trivial - just by levelling you would have the resources to do so.
That argument of max stats not being require is equal to the argument that you don't need to grind gear unless you want to do that particular piece of content called raid.Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Personally i don´t have a problem with ascended gear itself... my biggest complaint is that now people cannot join any group to do the dungeon since we are all split up in levels... LFG lvl 7 Fractals..... LFG lvl 12 Fractals....
In few weeks it´ll be a nightmare to try to find a group for lower levels..... I´m having a hard time myself trying to keep up with my friends due to work & disconnection problems on the dungeon
Actually no. I don't like instances, and the new island seems to be the most boring zone in the entire game. Even if I did like it though, what am I going to do, just keep killing stuff there, for no reason? That's like improving the carrot on the stick paradigm, by simply removing the carrot. Yay, now we just have a stick. Thanks, ANet, good luck with that.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
In Rift, you actually have to, if you want to do 20 man Raids. That is because the steps between equipment levels is huge - in 1-2% but 20-40%. Makes it a total grind to play.
Im looking at this new content and not seeing how A-net went against its original design.
THey said you wouldn't grind for items.
Whats a grind? Its running the same content over and over in hopes of obtaining a reward.
Last I checked the dungeon was random (the zone has random events also).
You run 3 levels that are randomly pulled from 9. You get a unique experience everytime you run the dungeon.
How is that grinding?
I think its come to the point that if you have to do anything for an extended period of time people will cry and say its grinding...
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
No, what you're saying is one glass gets knocked to the floor, and that means that all other glasses to follow will get knocked to the floor. You are proclaiming a pattern based on one instance.
Legendaries and Ascended will enjoy the same stats, so again, Legendaries are only cosmetic. Ascended is meant to be exactly between Exotic and Legendary in terms of time, so adding another level in between would only cause an imbalance of time. Which would of course be a pattern and an issue. Proclaiming it both at this point is very premature, I think.
Not all of the Ascended and Legendary gear is out yet. They are still implementing this stuff. They have already said that repeatedly.
As for your "Super Ascended" remark, no, I wouldn't say that. Because then there is actually a pattern. A bad one. If they were to add a tier without an expansion (and maybe even then.....), then yes, I will say pretty much the same things you are now. I'm just not ready to condemn Anet at tne mere hint of abstract possibilities without a pattern being actually established. I see many people are willing to, though.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
So... you're playing a MMORPG and you don't like dungeons or running open world content? Why are you playing?
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
You had to grind if you wanted FoW armor or any of the Elite armors (for looks not stats). So saying there was no grind in GW1 is not really true. Also there were RAID dungeons in GW1 - FoW, UW, The Deep, Urgoz's Warren, The Domain of Anguish (part of it really).
Well, I'm not anymore. That's kind of my point.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
No what I'm saying is that all the glasses will fall because there is a thing called gravity.
I'm saying that if they added a new tier of items to satisfy the player that like gear progression they will have to do so again because those players will require more progression afterhaving ascended items.
How do I know that, because over a decade of history of MMORPGs to draw from.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
The Fractals are only one part of a larger "endgame". Since Anet has said they will be adding content regularly, and just by looking at the map in game, the Fractals will remain a relatively small part. Unlike raids, which in most games quickly becomes the ONLY thing to do. And, with raids, if you don't do them in most games like that, you can't compete in things like PvP. If you have Exotics and/or Legendaries, you don't need Ascended gear to be competitive anywhere else in the game.
Like I've said before, you don't really even need to grind (as in do the same thing over and over) to get Ascended items. They, or their materials, drop naturally while playing the earlier parts of the dungeons.
And, yes, I know GW1 didn't have a grind for max stats. I said that already.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
So you completely quit playing MMOs or decided to go play EVE? because the crap thats bothering you in GW2 is in every themepark MMO.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
Those same complaints were made about GW1 and yet Anet never made it a gear/power progression game. THAT's the experience I'm drawing from. I truly believe that they are different enough as a company to not go back on their philosophy. I don't think they have yet. If they do establish that pattern, then I would probably stop playing the game.
My whole point has been that people are jumping the gun on this without any real evidence. All they are doing is overlaying past experiece onto something and assuming it will be just like before. Anet, never gave anyone that past experience, so maybe we shouldn't jump to conclusions yet.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
I relazed that from your posts - was just stating for others who haven't played GW1.
The one thing that was fun with those areas in GW1 - was running unique builds through. The guild I belong to did an ALL YELLOWWAY build through The Deep once and that was fun as heck (Yellow meaning Warriors and Paragons only - W/P and P/W builds - quite fun).
Is there an echo in here?
I say you don't need to grind for stats in GW1, you say I don't have to grind for stats in GW1.
UW, FOW, DoA are party size 8, the same as all dungeons in eye of the north and the same as the majority of areas in GW1 (asinde prophecies).
Urgoz and The Deep could be considered a raid, i guess, with a party of 12.
Still, 1 player and 7 heroes can clear all of them (Urgoz and Deep are easier with 2 players and 10 heroes), and I did.
Still seems a non sequiteur.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
The whole argument that Ascended Gear is optional doesn't hold. The counter to it was used over and over to trash many other MMOs since GW2 announced thier Manifesto. WoW, Rift, EQ, AO, the list goes on. Do you "NEED" the BiS gear? That's the argument and for as long as I've been reading about GW2, The argument that it's optional in WoW was put down and burried. But now that the shoe is on the other foot, the argument resurfaces. So what is it? Are gear grinds optional now? Because if that is the case, GW2 has a long way to go to catch up to the pack.
Seems to me, this is a kneejerk response by ANET to keep players playing. BCBully had a post once that made me laugh. He said "One of GW2's best features is that you don't have to play it." This was in response to statements by people saying they didn't feel guilty about stepping away from GW2 and returning at a later time. While his comment was made to be sarcastic, it is true that GW2 was supposed to be built around that idea. Only now, that idea is being challenged. I have to wonder if fewer people are logging in than what ANET is letting on. Afterall, if it ain't broke, why fix it? (unless it really is broke)
That is not true. Exotics and Legendaries had the exact same stats. The only difference was the grind to get a Legendary. It was a dumb move, there never was a gap, since Legendaries were purely cosmetical upgrades.
With the introduction of a new tier you are outgeared by about 8% or more from those who have reached the next tier. Note that 8% is only one piece, so it culminates to a stat increase of more than 96% (6 trinket slots, 6 armor slots) overall. Of course you will do better than anyone equipped with a lower tier.
Needless to say Ascended gear is another grind as someone found out http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13gj0p/ascended_gear_and_infusions_how_to_make_them_and/ . Feel free to make up your mind, but the gear grind is there and probably as good as Aion's. Before the update, grind for gear was mostly optional. You had to save a little karma for full exotics, but that's easy to get and could work towards a cosmetic upgrade. Now with Ascended gear, grind becomes mandatory and Ascended gear will make all prior content obsolete/too easy. Thanks to a dumb down-scaling system.Yes I know they are just cosmetic and don't really add that much of extra stats overall, but what do you propose, no grind at all, how will you set your goals to strive for?
Besides Anet is not done with Ascended and legendary, who know how it will be in the future for the better or worse is yet to be seen but for now I don't see the hassle and drama queen babbling.
I played GW1 for 7 years that based item progression solely on the hunt for new skins. Worked for me and many others. Of course, I don't know what the future will bring except new Ascended gear is incoming. I rather pull the plug sooner than later.Quoted for lulz
That guy is so bad at math :P
What stat increase do you think it is then? Fully equipped ofc.Anet never introduced a new tier of items with higher stats in GW1 either.
In fact all the max damage weapons had the same damage,regardless of being white, blue, purple, green or gold.
Ascended items won't be restricted to fractals - they work everywhere and I expect new content to keep dropping new ascended items.
What Anet did with this update is say that the time required to achieve stats parity increased from the time needed to acquire exotics to the time needed to acquire ascended (which is substancially higher).
And once again you guys aren't praising the introductin of ascended items, just trying to minimize them, rationalize them,etc.
And that is pretty much what has been happening everywhere: people that like the game opposed to it, people that like that the game defending Anet although not saying they support the ascended items (except if called to say they defend it) and people that dislike the game saying "See. Every MMORPG needs to follow the same formulas.".
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Yeah that's why every WoW clone has made sooOOOooOOOOOOO much money! Right? RIGHT??
Oh wait, could it be, that WoW is popular not because of its design? And thats why all the games designed the same way have failed? Oops.
And no, RR did not help much in raids. Nor were they requirements. People knowing what they were doing was a lot more important than RRs.
And your complete lack of a counter argument speaks volumes.
I feel compelled to correct both of these posts.
@Torgrim
From a pure statistical progression perspective, what we had before was
Tier 1: Exotic/Legendary
What we have now is
Tier 1: Exotic
Tier 2: Ascended/Legendary
There were no "blanks" that objectively existed to be filled in prior to the new update. Any change was an altercation made by Anet as of this patch. When Anet refered a "gap in progression" between exotics and legendaries, they were refering to the gap in player goals. (This was misunderstood by players on the live stream as it was announced. The dev attempted to clarify, but I think players still misunderstand.) Players can obtain their desired full set of exotics extremely easily after reaching level 80. All that's left for them to pursue is a legendary, which Anet intended to be a very long term, gradual goal. With ascended gear, players have new short term goals to keep them motivated.
@Ipolygon
I'm not going to get into the whole gear grind debate (I don't think it's grindy by any stretch of the imagination, and I did think the game needed more progression motivation.) What I want to correct is your misuse of percentages. If every single item increases in power by 8% (it's actually about 8.8%, so closer to 9%), then your total stat increase from gear increases by...8%. If, on the other hand, you earned only 1 item upgrade that increased the stats from that slot by 8%, and that slot represents about 1/10 of your character's entire stats from gear, then that upgrade will result in a total stat increase from gear of 0.8%.
Extremely easy, that depends of the set you want.
In fact one of the complaints was that the dungeon sets were to grindy for just a skin reward.
Additionally Anet has boosted several time rewards that allow players to take less time to get their exotic sets of choice.
So no, not all the exotics are easy to obtain.
In fact exotics are only easy to obtain if and only if:
1. You limit yourself to the crafted sets;
2. You limit yourself to one character;
3. You limiti yourself to one single build.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
The actual increase in combat efficiency overall is very small between a fully ascended geared person and a full exotic one percentage wise.
You have to take into account base stats and with some calculations in one stat and with estimating all ascended gear will be equal in terms of how much more they give over exotics you'd land at about a 5% increase, but that is just in one stat and you can only fully improve 3 stats through gear but there are more then 3 stats which means the overall combat effectivness increase is less then 5%.