Its not about the destination, its all about the journey.
I take a trip from east coast to the west coast, i dont just drive 3 days straight. I stop see things, explore caverns, see the canyons, fish, walk in the forest, make my trip as meaningful as possible. Thats the problem with you "rush everywhere" people, you dont take time to just enjoy the game and everything in it.
That is the biggest cliche.
Games are about having fun .. neither journey nor destination. If the journey is fun, good. I don't want a boring journey, just because it is a "journey" and not a destination.
ANd what is the problem? Games are entertainment. I play it with whatever style that suits me.
I don't play games to site see, or waiting for something to happen.
Obviously you are on the wrong website. You need a multiplayer website. In every thread, regardless whether it is a themepark or sandbox discussion, you have something to argue about. You then always seem to want to push Diablo 3 mechanics and game lobbys with limited players. This is a site for people who want to play a game with hundreds of other people in the same world, go AWAY. You aren't one of us. Yes I am off topic from this thread, but I am going to keep calling you on your BS.
You have a problem with opiniions other than your own.
This website covers D3, MOBA, and generally online games that have some similarity to MMORPGs. I am certainly not one of "you". Thank god i am not.
However, given the charter of this site, i have as much right to express my opinion as yours, and i will do that.
Well then express your opinion and open up on. All you have been doing is keep rambling on about wait times to travel. And what only 1-2 ssandboxes out of the 2 dozen had that. Its a weak arguement at best. And one of those 2 sandboxes lowered its wait time from 10 minutes down to what.....1-2 minutes? So point is moot.
Obviously you are on the wrong website. You need a multiplayer website. In every thread, regardless whether it is a themepark or sandbox discussion, you have something to argue about. You then always seem to want to push Diablo 3 mechanics and game lobbys with limited players. This is a site for people who want to play a game with hundreds of other people in the same world, go AWAY. You aren't one of us. Yes I am off topic from this thread, but I am going to keep calling you on your BS.
You have a problem with opiniions other than your own.
This website covers D3, MOBA, and generally online games that have some similarity to MMORPGs. I am certainly not one of "you". Thank god i am not.
However, given the charter of this site, i have as much right to express my opinion as yours, and i will do that.
I only have problems with YOU. You have expressed quite clearly that you don't want an MMO. This is an MMO site. I have no idea why it covers D3 or MOBA's, many are questioning that, the point is you bring negativity to every thread. In a thread that was meant to drum up positive ideas for a sandbox game for people who enjoy sandboxes (ie; not you), you entered and proceeded to tell everyone how you feel they were wrong. Now if you don't want an MMO, or a sandbox, why do you even enter the thread?
And I love other peoples opinions, these guys have great ideas. I don't like themeparks, yet I still support a better version of one (heck maybe Ill find one I like if it is innovative), but as it stands you don't even care for MMO's. Go away.
Stare at scenario doing nothing is not fun. Count me out.
This guy doesn't get it. Thinly veiled trolling at its finest!
Get what? That you guys want a slow-travel, large world that requires a lot of waiting in the name of "realism"? Oh i get it, i just think it is boring and i don't want it.
Its not about the destination, its all about the journey.
I take a trip from east coast to the west coast, i dont just drive 3 days straight. I stop see things, explore caverns, see the canyons, fish, walk in the forest, make my trip as meaningful as possible. Thats the problem with you "rush everywhere" people, you dont take time to just enjoy the game.
Dude, read some of his previous posts... he doesn't even want an MMO. I have no idea why he comes to this website.
How does i not want an MMO?
WOW, DCUO, DDO, Planetside 2 ... (and many other MMOs) are games i like to play and enjoy. Surely i play them like a lobby game, but they are MMOs covered by this site, right?
I am here to discuss those (and other online games covered here). What is the problem?
Stare at scenario doing nothing is not fun. Count me out.
This guy doesn't get it. Thinly veiled trolling at its finest!
Get what? That you guys want a slow-travel, large world that requires a lot of waiting in the name of "realism"? Oh i get it, i just think it is boring and i don't want it.
Its not about the destination, its all about the journey.
I take a trip from east coast to the west coast, i dont just drive 3 days straight. I stop see things, explore caverns, see the canyons, fish, walk in the forest, make my trip as meaningful as possible. Thats the problem with you "rush everywhere" people, you dont take time to just enjoy the game.
Dude, read some of his previous posts... he doesn't even want an MMO. I have no idea why he comes to this website.
How does i not want an MMO?
WOW, DCUO, DDO, Planetside 2 ... (and many other MMOs) are games i like to play and enjoy. Surely i play them like a lobby game, but they are MMOs covered by this site, right?
I am here to discuss those (and other online games covered here). What is the problem?
It's not working on me anymore buddy. I am calling out your BS. Thinly veiled trolling dude. I see right through it.
Obviously you are on the wrong website. You need a multiplayer website. In every thread, regardless whether it is a themepark or sandbox discussion, you have something to argue about. You then always seem to want to push Diablo 3 mechanics and game lobbys with limited players. This is a site for people who want to play a game with hundreds of other people in the same world, go AWAY. You aren't one of us. Yes I am off topic from this thread, but I am going to keep calling you on your BS.
You have a problem with opiniions other than your own.
This website covers D3, MOBA, and generally online games that have some similarity to MMORPGs. I am certainly not one of "you". Thank god i am not.
However, given the charter of this site, i have as much right to express my opinion as yours, and i will do that.
Well then express your opinion and open up on. All you have been doing is keep rambling on about wait times to travel. And what only 1-2 ssandboxes out of the 2 dozen had that. Its a weak arguement at best. And one of those 2 sandboxes lowered its wait time from 10 minutes down to what.....1-2 minutes? So point is moot.
Well, i am quite clear that i have problem with long travel time and wait time. If a game does not have that .. then i will judge it by its other merits.
But isn't the point about "it is the journey, not the destination" also about long journey of site seeing .. which is the point i am responding to.
I only have problems with YOU. You have expressed quite clearly that you don't want an MMO. This is an MMO site. I have no idea why it covers D3 or MOBA's, many are questioning that, the point is you bring negativity to every thread. In a thread that was meant to drum up positive ideas for a sandbox game for people who enjoy sandboxes (ie; not you), you entered and proceeded to tell everyone how you feel they were wrong. Now if you don't want an MMO, or a sandbox, why do you even enter the thread?
And I love other peoples opinions, these guys have great ideas. I don't like themeparks, yet I still support a better version of one (heck maybe Ill find one I like if it is innovative), but as it stands you don't even care for MMO's. Go away.
You are wrong. I am very clear that i don't want a VIRTUAL WORLD MMO. Virtual world MMOs are not the ONLY MMOs. There are plenty of MMOs with lots of instances (or do you disagree with that?).
This is a MMO site. So i discuss MMOs. And yes, i don't want a sandbox. They are obviously not the only MMOs.
In fact, you said it ... "you don't like themepark" .. so you don't like my opinion. I get that. But try to suppress opinions you don't like ... i doubt that will work. I don't stop expressing my opinion just beacuse some dude on the internet don't like it. I doubt you would be different if you are in my shoes.
You will cahnge your mind once more sandboxes are released. I see the industry heading in that direction. See more sandboxes on the horizon than in the past 10 years combined. Themepark kiddie console games have been beaten to death far too long. The eastern companies are starting to make sandboxes which means its only a matter of time before the west catches on.
I do believe archeage will be the next WOW for the sandbox genre. Its so massive with so much. Some will argue its a hybrid, i say BS too that. If in incorperates everything including the garbage from themeparks then its a sandbox lol
I only have problems with YOU. You have expressed quite clearly that you don't want an MMO. This is an MMO site. I have no idea why it covers D3 or MOBA's, many are questioning that, the point is you bring negativity to every thread. In a thread that was meant to drum up positive ideas for a sandbox game for people who enjoy sandboxes (ie; not you), you entered and proceeded to tell everyone how you feel they were wrong. Now if you don't want an MMO, or a sandbox, why do you even enter the thread?
And I love other peoples opinions, these guys have great ideas. I don't like themeparks, yet I still support a better version of one (heck maybe Ill find one I like if it is innovative), but as it stands you don't even care for MMO's. Go away.
You are wrong. I am very clear that i don't want a VIRTUAL WORLD MMO. Virtual world MMOs are not the ONLY MMOs. There are plenty of MMOs with lots of instances (or do you disagree with that?).
This is a MMO site. So i discuss MMOs. And yes, i don't want a sandbox. They are obviously not the only MMOs.
In fact, you said it ... "you don't like themepark" .. so you don't like my opinion. I get that. But try to suppress opinions you don't like ... i doubt that will work. I don't stop expressing my opinion just beacuse some dude on the internet don't like it. I doubt you would be different if you are in my shoes.
It is still not working. You are just trying so hard. I wish everyone would ignore you in this thread as you are not adding to it in any way, shape or form. Maybe then we could continue pumping out good ideas for people who DO like virtual worlds.
I only have problems with YOU. You have expressed quite clearly that you don't want an MMO. This is an MMO site. I have no idea why it covers D3 or MOBA's, many are questioning that, the point is you bring negativity to every thread. In a thread that was meant to drum up positive ideas for a sandbox game for people who enjoy sandboxes (ie; not you), you entered and proceeded to tell everyone how you feel they were wrong. Now if you don't want an MMO, or a sandbox, why do you even enter the thread?
And I love other peoples opinions, these guys have great ideas. I don't like themeparks, yet I still support a better version of one (heck maybe Ill find one I like if it is innovative), but as it stands you don't even care for MMO's. Go away.
You are wrong. I am very clear that i don't want a VIRTUAL WORLD MMO. Virtual world MMOs are not the ONLY MMOs. There are plenty of MMOs with lots of instances (or do you disagree with that?).
This is a MMO site. So i discuss MMOs. And yes, i don't want a sandbox. They are obviously not the only MMOs.
In fact, you said it ... "you don't like themepark" .. so you don't like my opinion. I get that. But try to suppress opinions you don't like ... i doubt that will work. I don't stop expressing my opinion just beacuse some dude on the internet don't like it. I doubt you would be different if you are in my shoes.
It is still not working. You are just trying so hard. I wish everyone would ignore you in this thread as you are not adding to it in any way, shape or form. Maybe then we could continue pumping out good ideas for people who DO like virtual worlds.
"Not working" on what? If you want others to ignore me, may be you should try it first. Note that i am not the only one in this threshold who wants a game, not a world. I am just more vocal.
And good ideas? Ideas on a forum makes no difference. It is all in the hands of developers. Here, it is just about shooting breeze, and for sandbox lovers (like you) to rant.
I only have problems with YOU. You have expressed quite clearly that you don't want an MMO. This is an MMO site. I have no idea why it covers D3 or MOBA's, many are questioning that, the point is you bring negativity to every thread. In a thread that was meant to drum up positive ideas for a sandbox game for people who enjoy sandboxes (ie; not you), you entered and proceeded to tell everyone how you feel they were wrong. Now if you don't want an MMO, or a sandbox, why do you even enter the thread?
And I love other peoples opinions, these guys have great ideas. I don't like themeparks, yet I still support a better version of one (heck maybe Ill find one I like if it is innovative), but as it stands you don't even care for MMO's. Go away.
You are wrong. I am very clear that i don't want a VIRTUAL WORLD MMO. Virtual world MMOs are not the ONLY MMOs. There are plenty of MMOs with lots of instances (or do you disagree with that?).
This is a MMO site. So i discuss MMOs. And yes, i don't want a sandbox. They are obviously not the only MMOs.
In fact, you said it ... "you don't like themepark" .. so you don't like my opinion. I get that. But try to suppress opinions you don't like ... i doubt that will work. I don't stop expressing my opinion just beacuse some dude on the internet don't like it. I doubt you would be different if you are in my shoes.
It is still not working. You are just trying so hard. I wish everyone would ignore you in this thread as you are not adding to it in any way, shape or form. Maybe then we could continue pumping out good ideas for people who DO like virtual worlds.
"Not working" on what? If you want others to ignore me, may be you should try it first. Note that i am not the only one in this threshold who wants a game, not a world. I am just more vocal.
And good ideas? Ideas on a forum makes no difference. It is all in the hands of developers. Here, it is just about shooting breeze, and for sandbox lovers (like you) to rant.
You only want games made YOUR way. Its not working you troll.
You only want games made YOUR way. Its not working you troll.
Oh but it does. I only PLAY games made my way. And there are lots of games made my way. Plus, you think i come here to change how games are made? I am not that naive.
Oh, i notice that you have no more arguments and resort to personal attacks. You never rebute how WOW, DDO, LOTRO, ... and many other games that suit my play style are MMOs. I suppose you have no choice but to use personal attacks because you just don't have the facts, nor reasoning.
I think that its high time for game companies that want to make MMOs to understand one simple thing about MMO player :
We dont want games - we want worlds.
We have millions of games - Halo , Super Mario , Starcraft , Monkey Island , Baldurs Gate ... to note few genre stars.
Now they want to take these games and add multiplayer aspect - and slap brand this MMORPG.
This my friends is the themepark world. And the direction its moving ( we are seeing mmofps , mmo platformer , mmo sport , even mmo adventure - beside more traditional mmorpg approach )
But this is not what we are here for ... not what we wanted...
When I played games before the era of internet , this was not what I dreamed of - Super Mario with oter people playing.
No.
What I dreamed was Ultima Online
This dream was shared in developer community that was young and not GREED oriented as today.
And than it stopped. Because its easier to just make a game and add multiplayer element.
And we have what we have today. Shallow abominations. Most laughable of which would be MMOs that came 2012. Basically Single player games with other people running around.
This. That much is obvious - will not fly anymore.
We want worlds.
You can call it sandbox. I call it Virtual world simulation games.
Worlds that have its rules , its economy , its inhabitants , its dangers , its politics - and than we are put inside - and become part of them.
Sadly only good and sucessful modern example of this is EVE online.
The game that caters bit to much to agressive player.... but there is so much potential around.
Will we ever see it ?
EVE online is highly instanced/zoned and not very open-world. I agree with you in your point but people over exaggerate EVE 's grandiosity. It is a successful sandox- but that's where the line is drawn. Saying Eve is good or best is a matter of personal opinion.
EVE online is highly instanced/zoned and not very open-world. I agree with you in your point but people over exaggerate EVE 's grandiosity. It is a successful sandox- but that's where the line is drawn. Saying Eve is good or best is a matter of personal opinion.
Because it is the only one. Many other non-sandbox games (like Maple Story, and LOL) are a lot more succsesful, in much shorter time. But sandbox-wise, it is just not a very successful genre.
Originally posted by ZekiahSandbox world:Themepark world:
LOL
+1
Actually, that's a bad example. You could have a theme park world with a large landscape and scenic vistas. You could have real AI as well, so that animals migrated, residents of towns behaved in ways that made sense, etc. All games are Skinner boxes, sandbox games included. They just reward you for a different set of behaviors from theme park games. That's a horrible example.
** edit ** No idea how to resize images in the editor. That giant image will just have to stay there.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
OP, I think you should have said that it is YOU who wants worlds, not games.
That said, I also want worlds not games.
In SWG, I felt like I was an explorer on the planet of Tatooine, given nothing beyond my starter gear, told to go nowhere in particular, but managed to eke out enough money to start a merchant mall outside of Mos Espa on Ahazi where my wife and I based all of our adventures and profit for years.
In SWTOR, I felt like I rode a Tour Bus through Tatooine, given my meals, my gear, and some canned adventures like some sort of fantasy camp. I was told when to go to Tatooine, and told when to leave it.
SWG's was an immersive experience that captured my imagination.
SWTOR's was quite forgettable only months later. But if i wanted to remember it I can just look up for some online walkthroughs or ask someone else what happened. They had the exact same experience.
But no one lived SWG Tatooine like I did.
More virtual worlds please.
Excactly how I felt about SWG, my main was a crafter, eventually I had multible account so I could cover every crafting detail the way I wanted it. We where building a city where we had entertainers, our entertainers wrote songs for people to "listen" read to. Obviously the "singing" part was in our imagination, but the song text was for everyone to read. The songs where either humorish or songs about the adventure's we have been in. We made several server wide story arcs for people to enjoy (this was well before the devs put feature's to create personal missions).
As time goes on I became pretty well know of Chimeara and Farstar (mostly as TheOne and TooStoned) as a crafter aswell as a Master Doc. I didn't need missions I GAVE missions/quests because we had a interdependend community which didn't care if one had multible accounts or single accounts. We didn't need a NPC to tell us what to do, we had eachother to ask for things, work on things, example crafters needed resources combatants could get their hands on. We all worked together, the combatant needed crafters, medics, docs, and also the other way around.
We had campfires and shared our adventure's. Overtime we got into a conflict with a oppossite faction, we searched for their base/town as did they and both sides either tried to attack or infiltrate. To infiltrate we needed those who tried to get in to change their background stories else we wouldn't get in.
Everything was geared towards our own personal story that in SWG was visible towards other players. We saw small town getting build, we saw big towns getting build, we had museums. It was awesome to visit some of them, player run shops.
Just about everyting in SWG was about your own story/journey, unlike games like WoW or SWtOR where the developers tell your story. Obvously in those type of games our backstory has no impact and is just something in our imagination where others are unable to see the impact in the gameworld because our imagination has no impact in the gameworld.
The idea of a sandbox might be fun, but most sandboxes are just synonyms for worlds without any content.
So maybe people are more restricted in the teapots than in the carts up above, but at least they bothered to make the teapots fun and least there are people to have fun with.
Originally posted by ZekiahSandbox world:Themepark world:
LOL
+1
Actually, that's a bad example. You could have a theme park world with a large landscape and scenic vistas. You could have real AI as well, so that animals migrated, residents of towns behaved in ways that made sense, etc. All games are Skinner boxes, sandbox games included. They just reward you for a different set of behaviors from theme park games. That's a horrible example.
** edit ** No idea how to resize images in the editor. That giant image will just have to stay there.
90% of themeparks this day in age lead you down a set path and have you on a leash the entire time. Older thmeparks i didnt mind. THey were more open world and it felt ok. Now....SWTOR comes to mind......SWTOR is exactly like that bottom picture
Well, I remember people talking about wanting real-time combat, needing cutscenes and longing for the storytelling of a single player game. Those features and various other things basically boiled down to "We want single player polish and quality in our online games!". It's funny how things have drastically changed years later now that games actually have those features.
I think it's just that we go from being saturated with open world sandboxes to being bombarded by themeparks and there's never really an even balance. I guess there are just too many similar games since everybody just copies the latest great and doesn't make much effort in the opposite direction.
Originally posted by Onomas 90% of themeparks this day in age lead you down a set path and have you on a leash the entire time. Older thmeparks i didnt mind. THey were more open world and it felt ok. Now....SWTOR comes to mind......SWTOR is exactly like that bottom picture
That's not a Skinner Box. The Skinner Box is a setup showing how positive and negative reinforcement affect behavior. In MMORPG that would be how giving someone shiny gear and giving them a harsh death penalty affect their behavior. All games from UO to SWToR employ Skinner Box mechanics. It's a bad example of the differences between games with worlds and games without worlds. For that matter, games with and without worlds has nothing to do with sandboxes. Theme park games can have worlds.
Your statements about the linearity of the games is probably a better example of the differences between games with worlds and games without worlds. It's something as simple as having multiple options at any giving point and actually having to choose a path instead of following a path. Choosing which path to take is more world like. Having a path to follow is more game like.
** edit ** Nixed the big images...too annoying.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
The idea of a sandbox might be fun, but most sandboxes are just synonyms for worlds without any content.
So maybe people are more restricted in the teapots than in the carts up above, but at least they bothered to make the teapots fun and least there are people to have fun with.
LOL You're doing it wrong. You are showing a dead themepark and a lively themepark. Where is my sandbox? My sandbox would have that ride in it, but I'd never have to use it if I didnt want to
The idea of a sandbox might be fun, but most sandboxes are just synonyms for worlds without any content.
So maybe people are more restricted in the teapots than in the carts up above, but at least they bothered to make the teapots fun and least there are people to have fun with.
LOL You're doing it wrong. You are showing a dead themepark and a lively themepark. Where is my sandbox? My sandbox would have that ride in it, but I'd never have to use it if I didnt want to
If that picture is from Prypiat, it is quite fitting portrayal of a sandbox.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Comments
That is the biggest cliche.
Games are about having fun .. neither journey nor destination. If the journey is fun, good. I don't want a boring journey, just because it is a "journey" and not a destination.
ANd what is the problem? Games are entertainment. I play it with whatever style that suits me.
I don't play games to site see, or waiting for something to happen.
Well then express your opinion and open up on. All you have been doing is keep rambling on about wait times to travel. And what only 1-2 ssandboxes out of the 2 dozen had that. Its a weak arguement at best. And one of those 2 sandboxes lowered its wait time from 10 minutes down to what.....1-2 minutes? So point is moot.
I only have problems with YOU. You have expressed quite clearly that you don't want an MMO. This is an MMO site. I have no idea why it covers D3 or MOBA's, many are questioning that, the point is you bring negativity to every thread. In a thread that was meant to drum up positive ideas for a sandbox game for people who enjoy sandboxes (ie; not you), you entered and proceeded to tell everyone how you feel they were wrong. Now if you don't want an MMO, or a sandbox, why do you even enter the thread?
And I love other peoples opinions, these guys have great ideas. I don't like themeparks, yet I still support a better version of one (heck maybe Ill find one I like if it is innovative), but as it stands you don't even care for MMO's. Go away.
How does i not want an MMO?
WOW, DCUO, DDO, Planetside 2 ... (and many other MMOs) are games i like to play and enjoy. Surely i play them like a lobby game, but they are MMOs covered by this site, right?
I am here to discuss those (and other online games covered here). What is the problem?
It's not working on me anymore buddy. I am calling out your BS. Thinly veiled trolling dude. I see right through it.
Well, i am quite clear that i have problem with long travel time and wait time. If a game does not have that .. then i will judge it by its other merits.
But isn't the point about "it is the journey, not the destination" also about long journey of site seeing .. which is the point i am responding to.
You are wrong. I am very clear that i don't want a VIRTUAL WORLD MMO. Virtual world MMOs are not the ONLY MMOs. There are plenty of MMOs with lots of instances (or do you disagree with that?).
This is a MMO site. So i discuss MMOs. And yes, i don't want a sandbox. They are obviously not the only MMOs.
In fact, you said it ... "you don't like themepark" .. so you don't like my opinion. I get that. But try to suppress opinions you don't like ... i doubt that will work. I don't stop expressing my opinion just beacuse some dude on the internet don't like it. I doubt you would be different if you are in my shoes.
LOL .. call out whatever you like. Seems like you run out of arguments and have no response. So you agree DCUO, WOW, LOTRO ... are MMOs?
You will cahnge your mind once more sandboxes are released. I see the industry heading in that direction. See more sandboxes on the horizon than in the past 10 years combined. Themepark kiddie console games have been beaten to death far too long. The eastern companies are starting to make sandboxes which means its only a matter of time before the west catches on.
I do believe archeage will be the next WOW for the sandbox genre. Its so massive with so much. Some will argue its a hybrid, i say BS too that. If in incorperates everything including the garbage from themeparks then its a sandbox lol
It is still not working. You are just trying so hard. I wish everyone would ignore you in this thread as you are not adding to it in any way, shape or form. Maybe then we could continue pumping out good ideas for people who DO like virtual worlds.
"Not working" on what? If you want others to ignore me, may be you should try it first. Note that i am not the only one in this threshold who wants a game, not a world. I am just more vocal.
And good ideas? Ideas on a forum makes no difference. It is all in the hands of developers. Here, it is just about shooting breeze, and for sandbox lovers (like you) to rant.
The Troll of MMORPG.COM
You only want games made YOUR way. Its not working you troll.
Oh but it does. I only PLAY games made my way. And there are lots of games made my way. Plus, you think i come here to change how games are made? I am not that naive.
Oh, i notice that you have no more arguments and resort to personal attacks. You never rebute how WOW, DDO, LOTRO, ... and many other games that suit my play style are MMOs. I suppose you have no choice but to use personal attacks because you just don't have the facts, nor reasoning.
I forgive you.
EVE online is highly instanced/zoned and not very open-world. I agree with you in your point but people over exaggerate EVE 's grandiosity. It is a successful sandox- but that's where the line is drawn. Saying Eve is good or best is a matter of personal opinion.
Because it is the only one. Many other non-sandbox games (like Maple Story, and LOL) are a lot more succsesful, in much shorter time. But sandbox-wise, it is just not a very successful genre.
Actually, that's a bad example. You could have a theme park world with a large landscape and scenic vistas. You could have real AI as well, so that animals migrated, residents of towns behaved in ways that made sense, etc. All games are Skinner boxes, sandbox games included. They just reward you for a different set of behaviors from theme park games. That's a horrible example.
** edit **
No idea how to resize images in the editor. That giant image will just have to stay there.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Excactly how I felt about SWG, my main was a crafter, eventually I had multible account so I could cover every crafting detail the way I wanted it. We where building a city where we had entertainers, our entertainers wrote songs for people to "listen" read to. Obviously the "singing" part was in our imagination, but the song text was for everyone to read. The songs where either humorish or songs about the adventure's we have been in. We made several server wide story arcs for people to enjoy (this was well before the devs put feature's to create personal missions).
As time goes on I became pretty well know of Chimeara and Farstar (mostly as TheOne and TooStoned) as a crafter aswell as a Master Doc. I didn't need missions I GAVE missions/quests because we had a interdependend community which didn't care if one had multible accounts or single accounts. We didn't need a NPC to tell us what to do, we had eachother to ask for things, work on things, example crafters needed resources combatants could get their hands on. We all worked together, the combatant needed crafters, medics, docs, and also the other way around.
We had campfires and shared our adventure's. Overtime we got into a conflict with a oppossite faction, we searched for their base/town as did they and both sides either tried to attack or infiltrate. To infiltrate we needed those who tried to get in to change their background stories else we wouldn't get in.
Everything was geared towards our own personal story that in SWG was visible towards other players. We saw small town getting build, we saw big towns getting build, we had museums. It was awesome to visit some of them, player run shops.
Just about everyting in SWG was about your own story/journey, unlike games like WoW or SWtOR where the developers tell your story. Obvously in those type of games our backstory has no impact and is just something in our imagination where others are unable to see the impact in the gameworld because our imagination has no impact in the gameworld.
sandbox:
themepark:
The idea of a sandbox might be fun, but most sandboxes are just synonyms for worlds without any content.
So maybe people are more restricted in the teapots than in the carts up above, but at least they bothered to make the teapots fun and least there are people to have fun with.
90% of themeparks this day in age lead you down a set path and have you on a leash the entire time. Older thmeparks i didnt mind. THey were more open world and it felt ok. Now....SWTOR comes to mind......SWTOR is exactly like that bottom picture
I think it's just that we go from being saturated with open world sandboxes to being bombarded by themeparks and there's never really an even balance. I guess there are just too many similar games since everybody just copies the latest great and doesn't make much effort in the opposite direction.
That's not a Skinner Box. The Skinner Box is a setup showing how positive and negative reinforcement affect behavior. In MMORPG that would be how giving someone shiny gear and giving them a harsh death penalty affect their behavior. All games from UO to SWToR employ Skinner Box mechanics. It's a bad example of the differences between games with worlds and games without worlds. For that matter, games with and without worlds has nothing to do with sandboxes. Theme park games can have worlds.
Your statements about the linearity of the games is probably a better example of the differences between games with worlds and games without worlds. It's something as simple as having multiple options at any giving point and actually having to choose a path instead of following a path. Choosing which path to take is more world like. Having a path to follow is more game like.
** edit **
Nixed the big images...too annoying.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
LOL You're doing it wrong. You are showing a dead themepark and a lively themepark. Where is my sandbox? My sandbox would have that ride in it, but I'd never have to use it if I didnt want to
If that picture is from Prypiat, it is quite fitting portrayal of a sandbox.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky