Because I am prepared to do just that, from theory, to concept, to mechanics, to interface design, to story, to lore, to create the most amazing MMORPG ever on paper.
Would people be interested in following this conceptualization, let's say both here and on Youtube?
Its great that you are doing this. Though most will write you off instantly cause either their own failings or experiences or "this is how the real world works" bullshit. If you are prepared to do all that is necessary to accomplish your goal. I mean to the point of saying I'm going to die or this is going to be made. Everybody is against you until the moment you are successful then they want to jump on the bandwagon and share in your rewards. If you are not prepared to do the above, don't bother. Spend your time on more fruitful adventures because you don't want it bad enough.
Yep. Get ready to face a lot of negativity - an amazing amount of it - thrown your way on various game design forums. "You can't" and "You'll fail, don't bother" seems to be the rallying call of many people. Some forum moderators will lock or delete your thread straight away - often leaving their own brand of negative feedback first, to break you down a bit.
Those who are the most negative are usually those who failed themselves, are bitter about it and (in my opinion) don't want to see others succeed where they didn't (I wont' say "couldn't", because with enough persistence they very well could have).
And of course, many people, as a rule, just love to see others fail. They'll happily drag you down and do their best to demoralize you - all the while claiming they're trying to help you. And they are. They're trying to help you at not succeeding.
Look around, though. There are small teams who have made MMORPGs that have launched and are still running to this day in some cases. They're not bleeding-edge, and they're very indie looking - but they're solid, playable and even fun games that have successfully attracted their own dedicated playerbase. One in particular I know of was started by a husband and wife team, him doing the programming and technical design, her doing the 2D/3D artwork and the such.
So it can definitely be done, and has been done.
I say go for it and put your 100% into it. And if, in a worst case scenario, it proves to be too steep a climb to the top and you have to back out... Hey... it was a learning experience. You'll know far more than you did starting out, and all of that knowledge and experience will be a huge benefit for your next go. Again, worst case scenario
I have been happy with the support already in this thread... I have to learn to ignore the trolls though, my competitive nature likes to toy with them and in this nature would not be good...
I will continue on, looking forward to my soundproofing coming in tommorow to fix the voice recording problems i have...
Now the last issue is dealing with the sound of my own voice...
Edit: one of these days my fingers will remember how to spell tomorrow!
lol indeed.
Just turn your "noise filter" up to 10, and listen to the people with something constructive or useful to say.
I hate the sound of my own voice. Ugh lol.
But he has ignored them, as well as anyone calling him out. He only responds to someone whose being, 'nice', to him like you.
Maybe he needs the confidence boost, some people are like that. They need to see how guliable humanity is sometimes to reafirm their ability to con them or to get support from them.
Best of luck with that soundproofing sonny, though how that stops you from typing out your world changing ideas I don't know...
Sound box complete... Only cost about $46 total.... Still need a rug for the floor though
Here is the issue with your concept. It isnt not new. Gamers DO create games.Most developers are just that, gamers.
The problem is they need funding and the people with the funds are not going to take a chance on an unknown gamers idea. Its not like gamers are known to the most financialy responsible people in the world.
So if I am a gamer and a developer and I come up with an idea for an MMO, and I go get funding here is what happens.
Dev: "I have an idea for a MMO. Its called BLAH Online"
Lenders: "is it like WoW? You know that game makes a $%#%$ load of money. "
Dev: "not really. Its something new but really exciting!"
Lenders: "well how about you make it like WoW since that game makes money."
dev: "but my idea isnt like that."
Lenders:" You want our money, follow a pattern that is proven successful. Ei ..WoW."
dev : *sigh* "ok gimme the money. Ill try to implement some of those features too along with my ideas." *takes the money*
Lenders: "Great! and btw while your at it dumb it down so we can also put it out for consoles and tablets. You see the computer industry has been slowing in recent years because of the Tablet. So we want this to be a game that appeals to everyone accross all platforms. This way we wont corner ourselves into a dieing market. "
dev:" wait... what? No I cant do that. "
Lenders: Sure you can. Since we gave you all that money we are now your boss. You know what else might help your game? A cash shop! That way we can charge real money for pixels. Our shareholder sure would appreciate that.
Dev: " A cash shop has no place in Blah Online. It would destroy the game and my concept"
Lenders: " Your concept is our property now. This would make us more money!. Oh and we have been thinking about that name......Blah Online doesnt work for us. It should be World of Blahcraft"
Dev "That would be a blatant ripoff."
Lenders: We should announce the game tonight and begin preorders tomorrow. Let people know the game will be out at Xmas. We need asome half naked female character art for the cover box. Preferably an Elf, or maybe you can come up with some new Elf like race that has abnormally large breasts.
Dev" WHAT? no way I can develop it by then and Blah Online doesnt have Elves, its a space MMO"
Lenders : " Big deal, so make Space elves. We can blame the lack of gravity for the unusually large breasts when the inevitable negative reaction from female groups pour in. While you are at it make space Pandas too but make them small breasted so we can point to them as a counterargument.
Dev "I don't think this is going to work out"
Lenders:" You know what? You are right. We appreciate all lthe work you have put into our game but alas the relationship isnt working so you position is no longer needed.
Dev " huh? Its my game."
Lenders: " Oh im sorry, you see when we invested we became the majority owners. All the intelectual property is now ours. Than you for stopping by. Feel free to come back if you have any more ideas for WoW-like Games. That game makes a %^^% load of money you know?
If Blah Online was so expensive to make that it needed lenders who would do that, then was it really such a good game idea? I think that when evaluating game ideas, we should put much more of a premium on interesting things that can be implemented cheaply.
Originally posted by Quizzical If Blah Online was so expensive to make that it needed lenders who would do that, then was it really such a good game idea? I think that when evaluating game ideas, we should put much more of a premium on interesting things that can be implemented cheaply.
Games take a lot of time to make. Manhours are expensive.
Originally posted by Quizzical If Blah Online was so expensive to make that it needed lenders who would do that, then was it really such a good game idea? I think that when evaluating game ideas, we should put much more of a premium on interesting things that can be implemented cheaply.
Games take a lot of time to make. Manhours are expensive.
Ah, but that depends on what you're trying to do. Some things are very expensive. Some things are not. Some particular features could be cheaply tacked on to existing games. Other particular features would enormously bloat the cost.
ooh, a second jpg! He's finally going to present something!
Wait...no...
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
From all this talk about money and whatnot, I take it a lot of you think that something has to be different for it to be fun? And that all an idea is a spin off with a twist?
This is why I get confident when I say I lnow how to make fun in a video game. You don't need nothing different. Let's take Tic Tac Toe, you don't play it anymore.. its boring right? But you played it as a kid, everyone has.. Why if its so boring? Well, lets show you one facet of fun.. I call this concept "short term fun". And with it, I can make Tic Tac Toe fun again.... with a twist...
Lets call this game Tic Tac No
The object of the game is NOT to get three in a row... There you go, try it out with your friends... The game has become fun again, because you do not yet know the outcome. Play around with it... Interesting..
Yes this is my concept of short term fun.. Learning a game equals short term fun... A game needs more than this.. Unfortunately its most all games are offering... tasks that are boring, that are portrayed to be a game... They are not fun, so the game becomes not fun once you learn this.
An example of this problem is oozing out of gamers here. Everyday here at MMORPG.com you hear kids quitting GW2 because it got boring.. Yes, they are not learning it no more, the leveling ended.. The short term fun this game had is over for them.
But how do you fix this? Next you have to ask yourself, Is there such a thing as long term fun? What is this such concept? Its a theory you need to follow when designing your game from the ground up. I will discussing it more in the upcoming podcasts.
Because I am prepared to do just that, from theory, to concept, to mechanics, to interface design, to story, to lore, to create the most amazing MMORPG ever on paper.
Would people be interested in following this conceptualization, let's say both here and on Youtube?
I would follow it but like Frodo said if you dont have the capital it wont work. It would have to be triple A before it ever graced my PC however.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Because I am prepared to do just that, from theory, to concept, to mechanics, to interface design, to story, to lore, to create the most amazing MMORPG ever on paper.
Would people be interested in following this conceptualization, let's say both here and on Youtube?
I would follow it but like Frodo said if you dont have the capital it wont work. It would have to be triple A before it ever graced my PC however.
Because I am prepared to do just that, from theory, to concept, to mechanics, to interface design, to story, to lore, to create the most amazing MMORPG ever on paper.
Would people be interested in following this conceptualization, let's say both here and on Youtube?
I would follow it but like Frodo said if you dont have the capital it wont work. It would have to be triple A before it ever graced my PC however.
Not looknig for fanboys quite yet
Now I am
(lets see how far I can take this before being trolled off the interwebs ~~~~~ )
I will be posting my concepts in the developers corner where it belongs, please check it out and debate my ideas and topics there if interested...
It doesnt matter if your design is perfect and it has all the solutions.
Others willingness to work on your design is indeed affected by your design. But the majority of designs documents people can come up with are not likelly enough to generate fire/will/work for it to get "developed".
Here is a funny joke: If you are Jesus, you can provide a design of belief and behaviour and people will follow, and work for it forever. If you are Lucifer, you can idealize everything in direct opposition and get people to work for it as well, as long as you provide whatever rewards people want. Its what we call "sell your soul". Can your design be so good as to dispense immediate payment/compensation and still make people "buy your idea"? You see, you need them to buy it and they need to pay for it, with their work.
But people dont follow and push forward other's designs unless doing so provides all their current/expected needs= "compensation". "What is in it for me?"
So your "concept from start to finish" must be powerfull enough to make people want to do that.
Most people follow others designs since they are born, because their predecessors chosen for them.
Right now, at this very moment, you are likelly following someone's design, wich was thought out and concepted from "start to finish" as well.
Its not about your design being thought out from start to finish, or from it being complete. It needs to be a grand design or you need to be the creator of the universe (like God, or like an indie game developer).
Designing stuff is awesome, I wish all my thoughts could become products/services at the snap of my fingers, just because my thoughts are so amazing
There are many people who live off herding people around their designs.
Or you can always put yourself in a position where people dont have a choice, or the choice they have is biased, so they must "develop" your "complete concept".
I do that a lot by pointing flaws in game design that will lead to unavoidable failure. In doing so, I suggest my design and there is a high likelihood of it being "developed".
I get into those alpha-beta testing and make the developers rethink their design, even when their design is not stated.
If they dont listen, you know they will fail. If they listen, they escape certain failure. But in doing said feedback, you lead them to the right path and then you get them to develop your concept, so that they dont fail.
Now, when there is nothing wrong with it, there is no need to say or do anything. For example, Terraria, or latelly Path of Exile is on the right track. You notice that they know what they are doing and promptly do the necessary fixes.
Other games, such as Diablo 3 and more recently Salem, I noticed obvious flaws since inception, stated them and suggested fixes. Since they didnt followed, I knew they would fail.
In another game, like Firefall, I notice obvious flaws, state them and suggest fixes and they comply, few patches later, it changed preciselly like you ordered, the game development improves and moves forward. Its an ongoing process.
In that sense, a design document thought by a single person, from start to finish, just like the idea of God, who knows the end from the beggining and creates all things, etc... DOES NOT WORK. WE LEARNED THAT ALREADY.
The best humans can do in designing anything is by interacting many brains who are focused on the same objectives and can communicate properly with each other for as long and as intense as possible.
Or you can always put yourself in a position where people dont have a choice, or the choice they have is biased, so they must "develop" your "complete concept".
I do that a lot by pointing flaws in game design that will lead to unavoidable failure. In doing so, I suggest my design and there is a high likelihood of it being "developed".
I get into those alpha-beta testing and make the developers rethink their design, even when their design is not stated.
If they dont listen, you know they will fail. If they listen, they escape certain failure. But in doing said feedback, you lead them to the right path and then you get them to develop your concept, so that they dont fail.
Now, when there is nothing wrong with it, there is no need to say or do anything. For example, Terraria, or latelly Path of Exile is on the right track. You notice that they know what they are doing and promptly do the necessary fixes.
Other games, such as Diablo 3 and more recently Salem, I noticed obvious flaws since inception, stated them and suggested fixes. Since they didnt followed, I knew they would fail.
In another game, like Firefall, I notice obvious flaws, state them and suggest fixes and they comply, few patches later, it changed preciselly like you ordered, the game development improves and moves forward. Its an ongoing process.
In that sense, a design document thought by a single person, from start to finish, just like the idea of God, who knows the end from the beggining and creates all things, etc... DOES NOT WORK. WE LEARNED THAT ALREADY.
The best humans can do in designing anything is by interacting many brains who are focused on the same objectives and can communicate properly with each other for as long and as intense as possible.
Guess I win, since i have a split personality disorder and talk to myself
Comments
Sound box complete... Only cost about $46 total.... Still need a rug for the floor though
Regards,
Mike Cackle
My YouTube Channel
Best Regards, ...
Forgot to buy the double sided tape.. Well maybe not, the sound box won't be portable then
Get ready for me to fail boys and girls...
Regards,
Mike Cackle
My YouTube Channel
Here is the issue with your concept. It isnt not new. Gamers DO create games.Most developers are just that, gamers.
The problem is they need funding and the people with the funds are not going to take a chance on an unknown gamers idea. Its not like gamers are known to the most financialy responsible people in the world.
So if I am a gamer and a developer and I come up with an idea for an MMO, and I go get funding here is what happens.
Dev: "I have an idea for a MMO. Its called BLAH Online"
Lenders: "is it like WoW? You know that game makes a $%#%$ load of money. "
Dev: "not really. Its something new but really exciting!"
Lenders: "well how about you make it like WoW since that game makes money."
dev: "but my idea isnt like that."
Lenders:" You want our money, follow a pattern that is proven successful. Ei ..WoW."
dev : *sigh* "ok gimme the money. Ill try to implement some of those features too along with my ideas." *takes the money*
Lenders: "Great! and btw while your at it dumb it down so we can also put it out for consoles and tablets. You see the computer industry has been slowing in recent years because of the Tablet. So we want this to be a game that appeals to everyone accross all platforms. This way we wont corner ourselves into a dieing market. "
dev:" wait... what? No I cant do that. "
Lenders: Sure you can. Since we gave you all that money we are now your boss. You know what else might help your game? A cash shop! That way we can charge real money for pixels. Our shareholder sure would appreciate that.
Dev: " A cash shop has no place in Blah Online. It would destroy the game and my concept"
Lenders: " Your concept is our property now. This would make us more money!. Oh and we have been thinking about that name......Blah Online doesnt work for us. It should be World of Blahcraft"
Dev "That would be a blatant ripoff."
Lenders: We should announce the game tonight and begin preorders tomorrow. Let people know the game will be out at Xmas. We need asome half naked female character art for the cover box. Preferably an Elf, or maybe you can come up with some new Elf like race that has abnormally large breasts.
Dev" WHAT? no way I can develop it by then and Blah Online doesnt have Elves, its a space MMO"
Lenders : " Big deal, so make Space elves. We can blame the lack of gravity for the unusually large breasts when the inevitable negative reaction from female groups pour in. While you are at it make space Pandas too but make them small breasted so we can point to them as a counterargument.
Dev "I don't think this is going to work out"
Lenders:" You know what? You are right. We appreciate all lthe work you have put into our game but alas the relationship isnt working so you position is no longer needed.
Dev " huh? Its my game."
Lenders: " Oh im sorry, you see when we invested we became the majority owners. All the intelectual property is now ours. Than you for stopping by. Feel free to come back if you have any more ideas for WoW-like Games. That game makes a %^^% load of money you know?
Games take a lot of time to make. Manhours are expensive.
Ah, but that depends on what you're trying to do. Some things are very expensive. Some things are not. Some particular features could be cheaply tacked on to existing games. Other particular features would enormously bloat the cost.
ooh, a second jpg! He's finally going to present something!
Wait...no...
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
From all this talk about money and whatnot, I take it a lot of you think that something has to be different for it to be fun? And that all an idea is a spin off with a twist?
This is why I get confident when I say I lnow how to make fun in a video game. You don't need nothing different. Let's take Tic Tac Toe, you don't play it anymore.. its boring right? But you played it as a kid, everyone has.. Why if its so boring? Well, lets show you one facet of fun.. I call this concept "short term fun". And with it, I can make Tic Tac Toe fun again.... with a twist...
Lets call this game Tic Tac No
The object of the game is NOT to get three in a row... There you go, try it out with your friends... The game has become fun again, because you do not yet know the outcome. Play around with it... Interesting..
Yes this is my concept of short term fun.. Learning a game equals short term fun... A game needs more than this.. Unfortunately its most all games are offering... tasks that are boring, that are portrayed to be a game... They are not fun, so the game becomes not fun once you learn this.
An example of this problem is oozing out of gamers here. Everyday here at MMORPG.com you hear kids quitting GW2 because it got boring.. Yes, they are not learning it no more, the leveling ended.. The short term fun this game had is over for them.
But how do you fix this? Next you have to ask yourself, Is there such a thing as long term fun? What is this such concept? Its a theory you need to follow when designing your game from the ground up. I will discussing it more in the upcoming podcasts.
Regards,
Mike Cackle
My YouTube Channel
I would follow it but like Frodo said if you dont have the capital it wont work. It would have to be triple A before it ever graced my PC however.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Not looknig for fanboys quite yet
Regards,
Mike Cackle
My YouTube Channel
Now I am
(lets see how far I can take this before being trolled off the interwebs
~~~~~ )
I will be posting my concepts in the developers corner where it belongs, please check it out and debate my ideas and topics there if interested...
Link to my project thread is here...
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5412077/thread/369792#5412077
Time to see how fake I am
Regards,
Mike Cackle
My YouTube Channel
Mike
It doesnt matter if your design is perfect and it has all the solutions.
Others willingness to work on your design is indeed affected by your design. But the majority of designs documents people can come up with are not likelly enough to generate fire/will/work for it to get "developed".
Here is a funny joke: If you are Jesus, you can provide a design of belief and behaviour and people will follow, and work for it forever. If you are Lucifer, you can idealize everything in direct opposition and get people to work for it as well, as long as you provide whatever rewards people want. Its what we call "sell your soul". Can your design be so good as to dispense immediate payment/compensation and still make people "buy your idea"? You see, you need them to buy it and they need to pay for it, with their work.
But people dont follow and push forward other's designs unless doing so provides all their current/expected needs= "compensation". "What is in it for me?"
So your "concept from start to finish" must be powerfull enough to make people want to do that.
Most people follow others designs since they are born, because their predecessors chosen for them.
Right now, at this very moment, you are likelly following someone's design, wich was thought out and concepted from "start to finish" as well.
Its not about your design being thought out from start to finish, or from it being complete. It needs to be a grand design or you need to be the creator of the universe (like God, or like an indie game developer).
Designing stuff is awesome, I wish all my thoughts could become products/services at the snap of my fingers, just because my thoughts are so amazing
There are many people who live off herding people around their designs.
Or you can always put yourself in a position where people dont have a choice, or the choice they have is biased, so they must "develop" your "complete concept".
I do that a lot by pointing flaws in game design that will lead to unavoidable failure. In doing so, I suggest my design and there is a high likelihood of it being "developed".
I get into those alpha-beta testing and make the developers rethink their design, even when their design is not stated.
If they dont listen, you know they will fail. If they listen, they escape certain failure. But in doing said feedback, you lead them to the right path and then you get them to develop your concept, so that they dont fail.
Now, when there is nothing wrong with it, there is no need to say or do anything. For example, Terraria, or latelly Path of Exile is on the right track. You notice that they know what they are doing and promptly do the necessary fixes.
Other games, such as Diablo 3 and more recently Salem, I noticed obvious flaws since inception, stated them and suggested fixes. Since they didnt followed, I knew they would fail.
In another game, like Firefall, I notice obvious flaws, state them and suggest fixes and they comply, few patches later, it changed preciselly like you ordered, the game development improves and moves forward. Its an ongoing process.
In that sense, a design document thought by a single person, from start to finish, just like the idea of God, who knows the end from the beggining and creates all things, etc... DOES NOT WORK. WE LEARNED THAT ALREADY.
The best humans can do in designing anything is by interacting many brains who are focused on the same objectives and can communicate properly with each other for as long and as intense as possible.
Guess I win, since i have a split personality disorder and talk to myself
Regards,
Mike Cackle
My YouTube Channel