In a game like WoW...you would group up for the group quest(s), like that keep in Redridge. Finish it, then disband. That's it. After all, once the quest is done, then it is detrimental for you to group, because it is extremely unlikely that everyone in the group shares the same quests.
And it usually takes like 5 minutes to finish the quest, and maybe 5-10 to find a group...depending on how many people are in the zone.
In GW2 on the other hand, you can make a group, and literally stay with that group for the ENTIRE game, regardless of what level people are, what "quest" they are on, or whatever.
I really feel like you guys maybe just need to try this before knocking it. Go into the game, find someone that you have fun doing DE's with, and ask them to group. Maybe they will accept, maybe they won't...but this is the same with anything. Then once you are grouped, you can begin chatting.
You can do that (and I most definitley do) in other MMO's.
Not really...most quest systems make it difficult to do this. In order for all group members to get decent exp, you HAVE to all be on the same quests...the likelihood of this being true without significant pre-planning is very low.
In a game like WoW...you would group up for the group quest(s), like that keep in Redridge. Finish it, then disband. That's it. After all, once the quest is done, then it is detrimental for you to group, because it is extremely unlikely that everyone in the group shares the same quests.
And it usually takes like 5 minutes to finish the quest, and maybe 5-10 to find a group...depending on how many people are in the zone.
In GW2 on the other hand, you can make a group, and literally stay with that group for the ENTIRE game, regardless of what level people are, what "quest" they are on, or whatever.
I really feel like you guys maybe just need to try this before knocking it. Go into the game, find someone that you have fun doing DE's with, and ask them to group. Maybe they will accept, maybe they won't...but this is the same with anything. Then once you are grouped, you can begin chatting.
You can do that (and I most definitley do) in other MMO's.
Technically yes, but practically no.
Other games continue to punish you for staying in one group. GW2 doesn't, as long as they are still online. I can't count how many times, in previous games, I've run into situations where I couldn't play with a friend, because our lvls weren't close enough, or we didn't have the same quests. That doesn't really happen in GW2. Even if they're not 80, I can still play w/ my friends and get something out of the experience.
Well, sounds like you are not into Roleplaying...which is fine. But I think the problem is people won't talk to each other at all because there really is no need to in this game.
There is for us. In sPvP and WvW, talking is a requirement. Also, when in dungeons, we absolutely have to talk to the people that we use as pickups sometimes and sometimes those people end up joining the guild.
Actually, the only situation I can think of where you wouldn't "need" to talk is while leveling. And in that case, it's like every other MMORPG in existence.
I didn't include those because those parts of the game I consider optional. And, no, I don't agree with your last statement. In many MMORPGs you need to have some sort of discussion in order to discuss tactics and roles. This then tends to lead to other forms of communication.
Roles are decided for you in other games to the point of obsurdity. If anything, trinity games make it so you never, ever have to communicate because you know your roles.
Yes some do. But others are a little less strict.
Not the ones you listed as being more social. Perhaps DDO. Actually, DDO is a good example in general of a game where you need to communicate a lot in dungeons. But you also have to communicate a lot in dungeons in GW2.
Also, I find it hilarious that you don't feel like dungeons, WvW and sPvP count when it comes to socializing. I mean... that is pretty much all I do at level 80. So for me and many others, it's extremely social. And your opinion on what counts and what doesn't just so you can get your point across is extremely disingenuous.
To top it all off, even while leveling I often meet new people and roll around with them. So even if I take your radical viewpoint at face value, I disagree. I'm in a guild with friends and we add people all the time that we find out in the world on alts.
I don't have any interest in doing the PVP end right now, so I am only commenting on the PVE side. Since I've stated before I don't like the dungeon experience (might have said this in another thread, actually) in GW2, I don't participate in them.
I typically play an MMORPG for the journey to 80. Once I hit max level I am typically done with either the character or the game.
Edit: Just for the record, I don't agree with the OP's assement that this is the least social MMO out. However, I do believe with the way the have designed it that it doesn't contribute to social play as much as other MMOs.
Originally posted by immodium In GW2 design manifesto they state they are making MMO's more social. Which they clearly haven't.
I think they got confused with Co-op and being social.
I think they got confused with playing together vs. alongside.
Sure, but I still just don't see how being in a group is any more social. Even in a formal group there is STILL no requirement to talk about things except tactical banter like "ready" or "go left."
I honestly can't say I remember a single person from PUGs I've been in, in any game, including Everquest. And the reason is simple...I didn't really socialize with them, and had no desire to.
I guess it would help if you told us exactly what it was that you found to be so much more social in other games. Like give us examples of activities that you found social in them.
Well, SWG had a lot of socialization but that falls into the realm of sanbox so I'll leave that out.
LOTRO has a great social community. Tons of people would RP on the Landroval server. There were also informal crowds that gathered to play music or gathered at specific locations to I guess socialize and roleplay. I don't recall the specifics of the conversation but it could lead into discussions pertaining to RP, guilds they were in, or various other non-related topics.
EQ - I recall a lot of RP going on when I played. My character was some sort of Elf race and I recall running into a group of dwarves and although we helped each other take down a mob or mobs I could tell there was a certain animosity from them towards me as they kept calling me "long ears" and asking if "i knew how to use my sword"
DDO - I forget the dungeon I was in, but it was the one in early teens with a wide open circular area and kobolds or something raining down flame objects on you. You had to destroy certain items to open up rooms. Well, the fighter involved was really good and he used his shield to block the whole party. We all stood there hunkered down behind him...we complemented him on the tactics he was using because as obvious as it may have sounded the encounter was fast spaced and surprisingly effective. During, we also engaged in some fairly casual conversation like one would while stuck in an elevator. But most of all, the tactics involved....
These are just some examples I can give you off the top of my head.
I think you will find the "tactical" kind of socialization you mention in the explorable mode dungeons. I've seen plenty of people complement others, or chastise them (lol), for their actions in an explorable mode dungeon. Simply because...it's a high pressure situation, and what you do really matters. This contrasts from the open world where there typically isn't that much of a challenge.
In fact, one of the funniest social experiences I had in GW2, was when this player kept telling us we were exploiting for pulling mobs in a dungeon lol ...he eventually left stating "Getting a few tokens and silver ain't worth getting banned over."
As for the RP stuff...I think you need to give the community a chance to mature. Whenever a new game comes out, everyone is typically about just playing, leveling, and enjoying the game features. But as time goes on...I think you'll see more and more RP stuff going on in the TC server.
I mean, as you know there already are roleplayers around right now...but there are just so many other folks just looking to level that they outnumber them.
I dunno, I guess in the end, my experience in GW2 has not lacked in the social department. I have met tons of people, and my friends list is always growing.
It's just going to be what you make of it.
The problem is I don't like the dungeon experience (or what I've tried of it) in this game. But of course, there is always room for change.
Well, then that may be your problem right there...if you don't like dungeons or PvP/WvW (not sure if you said you didnt' like these), then you're missing out on the more social parts of the game.
The open world stuff CAN be social, but it is typically less social than dungeons on PvP/WvW. Basically, if you want to be social in the open world, it's your responsibility to meet some friends and party with them. Dungeons and WvW/PvP basically do this all for you...
In a game like WoW...you would group up for the group quest(s), like that keep in Redridge. Finish it, then disband. That's it. After all, once the quest is done, then it is detrimental for you to group, because it is extremely unlikely that everyone in the group shares the same quests.
And it usually takes like 5 minutes to finish the quest, and maybe 5-10 to find a group...depending on how many people are in the zone.
In GW2 on the other hand, you can make a group, and literally stay with that group for the ENTIRE game, regardless of what level people are, what "quest" they are on, or whatever.
I really feel like you guys maybe just need to try this before knocking it. Go into the game, find someone that you have fun doing DE's with, and ask them to group. Maybe they will accept, maybe they won't...but this is the same with anything. Then once you are grouped, you can begin chatting.
You can do that (and I most definitley do) in other MMO's.
Not really...most quest systems make it difficult to do this. In order for all group members to get decent exp, you HAVE to all be on the same quests...the likelihood of this being true without significant pre-planning is very low.
I play most games for fun. It's not all about the XP, gear for me. I will happily help out people in lower level areas than me for guildies or if I'm passing through a zone.
I'll hold back though. I just won't steam roll the enemies for the lowbies. So they learn to play.
The beef I have with this whole social topic is ANET's claim of making this MMO more social than others. They just haven't. When I try and think about how they have done this, I come to the realisation that if anything they have made it less sociable than others.
Originally posted by immodium In GW2 design manifesto they state they are making MMO's more social. Which they clearly haven't.
I think they got confused with Co-op and being social.
I think they got confused with playing together vs. alongside.
Sure, but I still just don't see how being in a group is any more social. Even in a formal group there is STILL no requirement to talk about things except tactical banter like "ready" or "go left."
I honestly can't say I remember a single person from PUGs I've been in, in any game, including Everquest. And the reason is simple...I didn't really socialize with them, and had no desire to.
I guess it would help if you told us exactly what it was that you found to be so much more social in other games. Like give us examples of activities that you found social in them.
Well, SWG had a lot of socialization but that falls into the realm of sanbox so I'll leave that out.
LOTRO has a great social community. Tons of people would RP on the Landroval server. There were also informal crowds that gathered to play music or gathered at specific locations to I guess socialize and roleplay. I don't recall the specifics of the conversation but it could lead into discussions pertaining to RP, guilds they were in, or various other non-related topics.
EQ - I recall a lot of RP going on when I played. My character was some sort of Elf race and I recall running into a group of dwarves and although we helped each other take down a mob or mobs I could tell there was a certain animosity from them towards me as they kept calling me "long ears" and asking if "i knew how to use my sword"
DDO - I forget the dungeon I was in, but it was the one in early teens with a wide open circular area and kobolds or something raining down flame objects on you. You had to destroy certain items to open up rooms. Well, the fighter involved was really good and he used his shield to block the whole party. We all stood there hunkered down behind him...we complemented him on the tactics he was using because as obvious as it may have sounded the encounter was fast spaced and surprisingly effective. During, we also engaged in some fairly casual conversation like one would while stuck in an elevator. But most of all, the tactics involved....
These are just some examples I can give you off the top of my head.
I think you will find the "tactical" kind of socialization you mention in the explorable mode dungeons. I've seen plenty of people complement others, or chastise them (lol), for their actions in an explorable mode dungeon. Simply because...it's a high pressure situation, and what you do really matters. This contrasts from the open world where there typically isn't that much of a challenge.
In fact, one of the funniest social experiences I had in GW2, was when this player kept telling us we were exploiting for pulling mobs in a dungeon lol ...he eventually left stating "Getting a few tokens and silver ain't worth getting banned over."
As for the RP stuff...I think you need to give the community a chance to mature. Whenever a new game comes out, everyone is typically about just playing, leveling, and enjoying the game features. But as time goes on...I think you'll see more and more RP stuff going on in the TC server.
I mean, as you know there already are roleplayers around right now...but there are just so many other folks just looking to level that they outnumber them.
I dunno, I guess in the end, my experience in GW2 has not lacked in the social department. I have met tons of people, and my friends list is always growing.
It's just going to be what you make of it.
The problem is I don't like the dungeon experience (or what I've tried of it) in this game. But of course, there is always room for change.
Well, then that may be your problem right there...if you don't like dungeons or PvP/WvW (not sure if you said you didnt' like these), then you're missing out on the more social parts of the game.
The open world stuff CAN be social, but it is typically less social than dungeons on PvP/WvW. Basically, if you want to be social in the open world, it's your responsibility to meet some friends and party with them. Dungeons and WvW/PvP basically do this all for you...
But in other games and even the other examples I gave (save DDO) those were all social experiences I experienced outside PVP and dungeons. So in a game that has touted itself to play as you want it, they are sure restricting the social part to playing it a certain way.
Edit: Creslin, you can use your same arguments for SWTOR yet you had no problem saying that game felt like a single player experience. How do you differentiate between the two?
In a game like WoW...you would group up for the group quest(s), like that keep in Redridge. Finish it, then disband. That's it. After all, once the quest is done, then it is detrimental for you to group, because it is extremely unlikely that everyone in the group shares the same quests.
And it usually takes like 5 minutes to finish the quest, and maybe 5-10 to find a group...depending on how many people are in the zone.
In GW2 on the other hand, you can make a group, and literally stay with that group for the ENTIRE game, regardless of what level people are, what "quest" they are on, or whatever.
I really feel like you guys maybe just need to try this before knocking it. Go into the game, find someone that you have fun doing DE's with, and ask them to group. Maybe they will accept, maybe they won't...but this is the same with anything. Then once you are grouped, you can begin chatting.
You can do that (and I most definitley do) in other MMO's.
Not really...most quest systems make it difficult to do this. In order for all group members to get decent exp, you HAVE to all be on the same quests...the likelihood of this being true without significant pre-planning is very low.
I play most games for fun. It's not all about the XP, gear for me. I will happily help out people in lower level areas than me for guildies or if I'm passing through a zone.
I'll hold back though. I just won't steam roll the enemies for the lowbies. So they learn to play.
The beef I have with this whole social topic is ANET's claim of making this MMO more social than others. They just haven't. When I try and think about how they have done this, I come to the realisation that if anything they have made it less sociable than others.
At the end of the day...
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Socializing will ALWAYS be up to the players in the end. No matter what kind of "social features" a game puts in, it will always be up to the players to actually use them.
In my experience, players have been using them just fine in GW2.
This game has zero bonding requirements. For everything you can do at endgame, you can zerg or PUG your way through. Encounters that really need planning and strategy are scattered far and few; And even then, you PUG (or pick up your vent friends), some carebear explains the encounters, if everything goes smoothly nobody talks, if you fail people quit without further notice. End of story.
There is practically no communication going on aside from meeting up with your buddys in Vent/TS and trashtalk in zonechats as there is no trading aside from what I lovingly call "the stock exchange", no need for coordinated world PvP what I lovingly call "the zerg ball", no roleplaying which I lovingly... erm wait, whatever...
Weird.. that hasn't been my experience in GW2. In fact I can't walk without the chat log being filled with all sorts of talk. I can't login to world vs world without someone shouting tactics and vent info to all the new joiners.
I have yet to experience the problem you're going through. LOTRO has always had an active community since it involves tons of role-play elements.
Social aspects have always been a part of role-playing communites and servers.
Excellent post OP. Sorry to see that someone reported you for sharing your honest opinion. Apparently that's a no-no here.
Hopefully the person who did the reporting will be banned for abusing the report function. I'm pretty sure it's not intended as a tool to suppress people's opinions (good or bad). Had you posted that GW2 was the most social game evar...you'd be hailed as a hero. But since you shared your true opinion...then you are a troll that must be squashed. Good luck.
I basically completely disagree with the OP.
But I even more strongly disagree with whoever reported him. Let's not try to censor people here for their opinions...
Agreed 100%. People, differences of opinion are okay, and in no way was the OP any form of flamebait at all. It's one persons honest opinion about a game.
As for my response to the OP:
I can see why you feel the game is anti-social. It's one of the more complicated effects of how the game is designed. You have a mmo where cooperation in encouraged, and you see folks going around helping each other all of the time, ex: rezzing random folks, tossing out healing effects, combo effects, ad-hoc grouping. At the same time, a certain level of social interaction isn't required in order to help other folks. You can be in an unofficial group with someone, run around together killing the same things, but never say a word to one another.
What is completely different from my experiences is that I haven't seen as much blantant trolling in game as I do in other mmos. I see more helpful chat in the zone chats, people as questions and get real answers. You don't have that one dick running around tagging things right as you're about to hit them and then runs off and earns xps while you don't (part of the game design), and I don't see folks just going out and trying to make someone else's day miserable. Which is something I've seen numerous times in other mmos.
Part of the effect I believe is how anti-social many mmos have become over the years. You weren't encouraged to help others or even really group up during the leveling process. Everyone else is just a faceless cog in the game. So, getting out of that mentality is extremely difficult. If more mmos start to use similar systems where everyone who helps gets full xps and rewards regardless, you will probably start to see more social interactions.
The bottom line is that it takes at least two people for a social interaction. If you are running around and not saying anything to anyone, then chances are no one else will talk to you. If you are running around, randomly chatting with people you run into, you will eventually break through and others will interact with you as well. I wouldn't say that GW2 is the most antisocial game ever, but rather the community has been trained to be antisocial for many years. Change happens slowly.
This game has zero bonding requirements. For everything you can do at endgame, you can zerg or PUG your way through. Encounters that really need planning and strategy are scattered far and few; And even then, you PUG (or pick up your vent friends), some carebear explains the encounters, if everything goes smoothly nobody talks, if you fail people quit without further notice. End of story.
There is practically no communication going on aside from meeting up with your buddys in Vent/TS and trashtalk in zonechats as there is no trading aside from what I lovingly call "the stock exchange", no need for coordinated world PvP what I lovingly call "the zerg ball", no roleplaying which I lovingly... erm wait, whatever...
Weird.. that hasn't been my experience in GW2. In fact I can't walk without the chat log being filled with all sorts of talk. I can't login to world vs world without someone shouting tactics and vent info to all the new joiners.
I have yet to experience the problem you're going through. LOTRO has always had an active community since it involves tons of role-play elements.
Social aspects have always been a part of role-playing communites and servers.
What server are you playing on? I play on Tarnished Coast and have found that to be the most lively. But I would hardly consider the chat log to be full of talk.
Originally posted by immodium In GW2 design manifesto they state they are making MMO's more social. Which they clearly haven't.
I think they got confused with Co-op and being social.
I think they got confused with playing together vs. alongside.
..
.
The problem is I don't like the dungeon experience (or what I've tried of it) in this game. But of course, there is always room for change.
Well, then that may be your problem right there...if you don't like dungeons or PvP/WvW (not sure if you said you didnt' like these), then you're missing out on the more social parts of the game.
The open world stuff CAN be social, but it is typically less social than dungeons on PvP/WvW. Basically, if you want to be social in the open world, it's your responsibility to meet some friends and party with them. Dungeons and WvW/PvP basically do this all for you...
But in other games and even the other examples I gave (save DDO) those were all social experiences I experienced outside PVP and dungeons. So in a game that has touted itself to play as you want it, they are sure restricting the social part to playing it a certain way.
The only thing that I can really see GW2 "missing" that other games had that may have encouraged socializing is group quests...but I really don't think that and that alone is going to make the game so much less social. Especially considering that group quests are typically few and far between anyway.
I dunno, I haven't experienced these problems you are talking about...but maybe that is because I'm not really looking to socialize while doing open world stuff...which could contribute to your problem .
In a game like WoW...you would group up for the group quest(s), like that keep in Redridge. Finish it, then disband. That's it. After all, once the quest is done, then it is detrimental for you to group, because it is extremely unlikely that everyone in the group shares the same quests.
And it usually takes like 5 minutes to finish the quest, and maybe 5-10 to find a group...depending on how many people are in the zone.
In GW2 on the other hand, you can make a group, and literally stay with that group for the ENTIRE game, regardless of what level people are, what "quest" they are on, or whatever.
I really feel like you guys maybe just need to try this before knocking it. Go into the game, find someone that you have fun doing DE's with, and ask them to group. Maybe they will accept, maybe they won't...but this is the same with anything. Then once you are grouped, you can begin chatting.
You can do that (and I most definitley do) in other MMO's.
Not really...most quest systems make it difficult to do this. In order for all group members to get decent exp, you HAVE to all be on the same quests...the likelihood of this being true without significant pre-planning is very low.
I play most games for fun. It's not all about the XP, gear for me. I will happily help out people in lower level areas than me for guildies or if I'm passing through a zone.
I'll hold back though. I just won't steam roll the enemies for the lowbies. So they learn to play.
The beef I have with this whole social topic is ANET's claim of making this MMO more social than others. They just haven't. When I try and think about how they have done this, I come to the realisation that if anything they have made it less sociable than others.
At the end of the day...
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Socializing will ALWAYS be up to the players in the end. No matter what kind of "social features" a game puts in, it will always be up to the players to actually use them.
In my experience, players have been using them just fine in GW2.
I added an edit to my previous post in case you don't see it.
In a game like WoW...you would group up for the group quest(s), like that keep in Redridge. Finish it, then disband. That's it. After all, once the quest is done, then it is detrimental for you to group, because it is extremely unlikely that everyone in the group shares the same quests.
And it usually takes like 5 minutes to finish the quest, and maybe 5-10 to find a group...depending on how many people are in the zone.
In GW2 on the other hand, you can make a group, and literally stay with that group for the ENTIRE game, regardless of what level people are, what "quest" they are on, or whatever.
I really feel like you guys maybe just need to try this before knocking it. Go into the game, find someone that you have fun doing DE's with, and ask them to group. Maybe they will accept, maybe they won't...but this is the same with anything. Then once you are grouped, you can begin chatting.
You can do that (and I most definitley do) in other MMO's.
Not really...most quest systems make it difficult to do this. In order for all group members to get decent exp, you HAVE to all be on the same quests...the likelihood of this being true without significant pre-planning is very low.
I play most games for fun. It's not all about the XP, gear for me. I will happily help out people in lower level areas than me for guildies or if I'm passing through a zone.
I'll hold back though. I just won't steam roll the enemies for the lowbies. So they learn to play.
The beef I have with this whole social topic is ANET's claim of making this MMO more social than others. They just haven't. When I try and think about how they have done this, I come to the realisation that if anything they have made it less sociable than others.
At the end of the day...
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Socializing will ALWAYS be up to the players in the end. No matter what kind of "social features" a game puts in, it will always be up to the players to actually use them.
In my experience, players have been using them just fine in GW2.
I agree with that. I just think the tools ANET implemented to make it more "social" (which TBH, is a bold claim by ANET. When it's down to the player) just didn't work.
In a game like WoW...you would group up for the group quest(s), like that keep in Redridge. Finish it, then disband. That's it. After all, once the quest is done, then it is detrimental for you to group, because it is extremely unlikely that everyone in the group shares the same quests.
And it usually takes like 5 minutes to finish the quest, and maybe 5-10 to find a group...depending on how many people are in the zone.
In GW2 on the other hand, you can make a group, and literally stay with that group for the ENTIRE game, regardless of what level people are, what "quest" they are on, or whatever.
I really feel like you guys maybe just need to try this before knocking it. Go into the game, find someone that you have fun doing DE's with, and ask them to group. Maybe they will accept, maybe they won't...but this is the same with anything. Then once you are grouped, you can begin chatting.
You can do that (and I most definitley do) in other MMO's.
Not really...most quest systems make it difficult to do this. In order for all group members to get decent exp, you HAVE to all be on the same quests...the likelihood of this being true without significant pre-planning is very low.
I play most games for fun. It's not all about the XP, gear for me. I will happily help out people in lower level areas than me for guildies or if I'm passing through a zone.
I'll hold back though. I just won't steam roll the enemies for the lowbies. So they learn to play.
The beef I have with this whole social topic is ANET's claim of making this MMO more social than others. They just haven't. When I try and think about how they have done this, I come to the realisation that if anything they have made it less sociable than others.
At the end of the day...
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Socializing will ALWAYS be up to the players in the end. No matter what kind of "social features" a game puts in, it will always be up to the players to actually use them.
In my experience, players have been using them just fine in GW2.
I agree with that. I just think the tools ANET implemented to make it more "social" (which TBH, is a bold claim by ANET. When it's down to the player) just didn't work.
I agree. ANET tends to exaggerate their claims tenfold I've noticed. Just something to keep in mind when they tout anything else new.
It's not as social as I'd like at times, but that is as much my fault as anyones. I would really like to see a big improvement in things that allow a person to represent without having to put out an extended effort. Emotes are a good example. Voiced emotes would even be better. Support for keyboards that use custom macros would be nice, or even programmable macros for set actions. These things wouldn't take the place of text or verbal communication but they help break the ice.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
Originally posted by eyelolled It's not as social as I'd like at times, but that is as much my fault as anyones. I would really like to see a big improvement in things that allow a person to represent without having to put out an extended effort. Emotes are a good example. Voiced emotes would even be better. Support for keyboards that use custom macros would be nice, or even programmable macros for set actions. These things wouldn't take the place of text or verbal communication but they help break the ice.
Originally posted by eyelolled It's not as social as I'd like at times, but that is as much my fault as anyones. I would really like to see a big improvement in things that allow a person to represent without having to put out an extended effort. Emotes are a good example. Voiced emotes would even be better. Support for keyboards that use custom macros would be nice, or even programmable macros for set actions. These things wouldn't take the place of text or verbal communication but they help break the ice.
Good points.
Personally, I'd love if the game had an ingame voice chat system, and some kinda UI for public groups. Would make it easier to play w/ randoms, for sure. Especially in WvW.
Aside from that, I think a large part of what makes the game social (or not) depends on the player. If a person isn't putting in any effort to talk to people, make friends, or have fun w/ others, then the game isn't going to seem very social. On the other hand, if you are making the effort, the game can be a lot of fun, and I've met some pretty cool people doing so.
Originally posted by immodium In GW2 design manifesto they state they are making MMO's more social. Which they clearly haven't.
I think they got confused with Co-op and being social.
I think they got confused with playing together vs. alongside.
Sure, but I still just don't see how being in a group is any more social. Even in a formal group there is STILL no requirement to talk about things except tactical banter like "ready" or "go left."
I honestly can't say I remember a single person from PUGs I've been in, in any game, including Everquest. And the reason is simple...I didn't really socialize with them, and had no desire to.
I guess it would help if you told us exactly what it was that you found to be so much more social in other games. Like give us examples of activities that you found social in them.
Well, SWG had a lot of socialization but that falls into the realm of sanbox so I'll leave that out.
LOTRO has a great social community. Tons of people would RP on the Landroval server. There were also informal crowds that gathered to play music or gathered at specific locations to I guess socialize and roleplay. I don't recall the specifics of the conversation but it could lead into discussions pertaining to RP, guilds they were in, or various other non-related topics.
EQ - I recall a lot of RP going on when I played. My character was some sort of Elf race and I recall running into a group of dwarves and although we helped each other take down a mob or mobs I could tell there was a certain animosity from them towards me as they kept calling me "long ears" and asking if "i knew how to use my sword"
DDO - I forget the dungeon I was in, but it was the one in early teens with a wide open circular area and kobolds or something raining down flame objects on you. You had to destroy certain items to open up rooms. Well, the fighter involved was really good and he used his shield to block the whole party. We all stood there hunkered down behind him...we complemented him on the tactics he was using because as obvious as it may have sounded the encounter was fast spaced and surprisingly effective. During, we also engaged in some fairly casual conversation like one would while stuck in an elevator. But most of all, the tactics involved....
These are just some examples I can give you off the top of my head.
I think you will find the "tactical" kind of socialization you mention in the explorable mode dungeons. I've seen plenty of people complement others, or chastise them (lol), for their actions in an explorable mode dungeon. Simply because...it's a high pressure situation, and what you do really matters. This contrasts from the open world where there typically isn't that much of a challenge.
In fact, one of the funniest social experiences I had in GW2, was when this player kept telling us we were exploiting for pulling mobs in a dungeon lol ...he eventually left stating "Getting a few tokens and silver ain't worth getting banned over."
As for the RP stuff...I think you need to give the community a chance to mature. Whenever a new game comes out, everyone is typically about just playing, leveling, and enjoying the game features. But as time goes on...I think you'll see more and more RP stuff going on in the TC server.
I mean, as you know there already are roleplayers around right now...but there are just so many other folks just looking to level that they outnumber them.
I dunno, I guess in the end, my experience in GW2 has not lacked in the social department. I have met tons of people, and my friends list is always growing.
It's just going to be what you make of it.
The problem is I don't like the dungeon experience (or what I've tried of it) in this game. But of course, there is always room for change.
Well, then that may be your problem right there...if you don't like dungeons or PvP/WvW (not sure if you said you didnt' like these), then you're missing out on the more social parts of the game.
The open world stuff CAN be social, but it is typically less social than dungeons on PvP/WvW. Basically, if you want to be social in the open world, it's your responsibility to meet some friends and party with them. Dungeons and WvW/PvP basically do this all for you...
But in other games and even the other examples I gave (save DDO) those were all social experiences I experienced outside PVP and dungeons. So in a game that has touted itself to play as you want it, they are sure restricting the social part to playing it a certain way.
Edit: Creslin, you can use your same arguments for SWTOR yet you had no problem saying that game felt like a single player experience. How do you differentiate between the two?
Oh that's an easy one . Here is why I think SWTOR could feel like an SP experience...
1. The zone sharding was so insane that you would see very few people in your shard...even on a freaking full server. This was so weird, being on a full server, yet seeing only one or two people running around.
2. The fact that the story was such a pervasive part of the game and constantly intermingled with open world PvE, made it almost always preferential for me to solo. Most people don't want to sit through my story which is on the way to an open world quest, and vice versa.
3. The game suffered from the typical issues that quest hub games have with grouping where you really need to be on the same quest with someone to group.
4. The game suffered from the typical issues that level-stratified games have with grouping, where you need to be very close in level with someone to group.
In the end, numbers 1 and 2 were the big, big problems. WAAAAY too much sharding, and making what is essentially a single player story that star of an MMORPG is just a bad idea.
Now the flashpoints and BGs were clearly multiplayer...but this is really nothing that you couldn't find in a non-MMO multiplayer game like Borderlands.
In a game like WoW...you would group up for the group quest(s), like that keep in Redridge. Finish it, then disband. That's it. After all, once the quest is done, then it is detrimental for you to group, because it is extremely unlikely that everyone in the group shares the same quests.
And it usually takes like 5 minutes to finish the quest, and maybe 5-10 to find a group...depending on how many people are in the zone.
In GW2 on the other hand, you can make a group, and literally stay with that group for the ENTIRE game, regardless of what level people are, what "quest" they are on, or whatever.
I really feel like you guys maybe just need to try this before knocking it. Go into the game, find someone that you have fun doing DE's with, and ask them to group. Maybe they will accept, maybe they won't...but this is the same with anything. Then once you are grouped, you can begin chatting.
You can do that (and I most definitley do) in other MMO's.
Not really...most quest systems make it difficult to do this. In order for all group members to get decent exp, you HAVE to all be on the same quests...the likelihood of this being true without significant pre-planning is very low.
I play most games for fun. It's not all about the XP, gear for me. I will happily help out people in lower level areas than me for guildies or if I'm passing through a zone.
I'll hold back though. I just won't steam roll the enemies for the lowbies. So they learn to play.
The beef I have with this whole social topic is ANET's claim of making this MMO more social than others. They just haven't. When I try and think about how they have done this, I come to the realisation that if anything they have made it less sociable than others.
At the end of the day...
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Socializing will ALWAYS be up to the players in the end. No matter what kind of "social features" a game puts in, it will always be up to the players to actually use them.
In my experience, players have been using them just fine in GW2.
I agree with that. I just think the tools ANET implemented to make it more "social" (which TBH, is a bold claim by ANET. When it's down to the player) just didn't work.
I agree. ANET tends to exaggerate their claims tenfold I've noticed. Just something to keep in mind when they tout anything else new.
I actually disagree.
I've been playing MMORPGs with my cousin for years, and yet I could hardly ever group with him because we were either not close enough in level, or had completely different quests.
In GW2...I can group with him whenever I want. Maybe to you that isn't a big deal, but to me, that is a HUGE deal.
Oh that's an easy one . Here is why I think SWTOR could feel like an SP experience...
1. The zone sharding was so insane that you would see very few people in your shard...even on a freaking full server. This was so weird, being on a full server, yet seeing only one or two people running around.
2. The fact that the story was such a pervasive part of the game and constantly intermingled with open world PvE, made it almost always preferential for me to solo. Most people don't want to sit through my story which is on the way to an open world quest, and vice versa.
3. The game suffered from the typical issues that quest hub games have with grouping where you really need to be on the same quest with someone to group.
4. The game suffered from the typical issues that level-stratified games have with grouping, where you need to be very close in level with someone to group.
In the end, numbers 1 and 2 were the big, big problems. WAAAAY too much sharding, and making what is essentially a single player story that star of an MMORPG is just a bad idea.
Now the flashpoints and BGs were clearly multiplayer...but this is really nothing that you couldn't find in a non-MMO multiplayer game like Borderlands.
Just to add to this... companions as well. I could solo 4 star stuff as a Sage with my companion. There was zero reason for me to group (even though I often did anyway to break up the monotony of linear questing).
Originally posted by immodium In GW2 design manifesto they state they are making MMO's more social. Which they clearly haven't.
I think they got confused with Co-op and being social.
I think they got confused with playing together vs. alongside.
Sure, but I still just don't see how being in a group is any more social. Even in a formal group there is STILL no requirement to talk about things except tactical banter like "ready" or "go left."
I honestly can't say I remember a single person from PUGs I've been in, in any game, including Everquest. And the reason is simple...I didn't really socialize with them, and had no desire to.
I guess it would help if you told us exactly what it was that you found to be so much more social in other games. Like give us examples of activities that you found social in them.
Well, SWG had a lot of socialization but that falls into the realm of sanbox so I'll leave that out.
LOTRO has a great social community. Tons of people would RP on the Landroval server. There were also informal crowds that gathered to play music or gathered at specific locations to I guess socialize and roleplay. I don't recall the specifics of the conversation but it could lead into discussions pertaining to RP, guilds they were in, or various other non-related topics.
EQ - I recall a lot of RP going on when I played. My character was some sort of Elf race and I recall running into a group of dwarves and although we helped each other take down a mob or mobs I could tell there was a certain animosity from them towards me as they kept calling me "long ears" and asking if "i knew how to use my sword"
DDO - I forget the dungeon I was in, but it was the one in early teens with a wide open circular area and kobolds or something raining down flame objects on you. You had to destroy certain items to open up rooms. Well, the fighter involved was really good and he used his shield to block the whole party. We all stood there hunkered down behind him...we complemented him on the tactics he was using because as obvious as it may have sounded the encounter was fast spaced and surprisingly effective. During, we also engaged in some fairly casual conversation like one would while stuck in an elevator. But most of all, the tactics involved....
These are just some examples I can give you off the top of my head.
I think you will find the "tactical" kind of socialization you mention in the explorable mode dungeons. I've seen plenty of people complement others, or chastise them (lol), for their actions in an explorable mode dungeon. Simply because...it's a high pressure situation, and what you do really matters. This contrasts from the open world where there typically isn't that much of a challenge.
In fact, one of the funniest social experiences I had in GW2, was when this player kept telling us we were exploiting for pulling mobs in a dungeon lol ...he eventually left stating "Getting a few tokens and silver ain't worth getting banned over."
As for the RP stuff...I think you need to give the community a chance to mature. Whenever a new game comes out, everyone is typically about just playing, leveling, and enjoying the game features. But as time goes on...I think you'll see more and more RP stuff going on in the TC server.
I mean, as you know there already are roleplayers around right now...but there are just so many other folks just looking to level that they outnumber them.
I dunno, I guess in the end, my experience in GW2 has not lacked in the social department. I have met tons of people, and my friends list is always growing.
It's just going to be what you make of it.
The problem is I don't like the dungeon experience (or what I've tried of it) in this game. But of course, there is always room for change.
Well, then that may be your problem right there...if you don't like dungeons or PvP/WvW (not sure if you said you didnt' like these), then you're missing out on the more social parts of the game.
The open world stuff CAN be social, but it is typically less social than dungeons on PvP/WvW. Basically, if you want to be social in the open world, it's your responsibility to meet some friends and party with them. Dungeons and WvW/PvP basically do this all for you...
But in other games and even the other examples I gave (save DDO) those were all social experiences I experienced outside PVP and dungeons. So in a game that has touted itself to play as you want it, they are sure restricting the social part to playing it a certain way.
Edit: Creslin, you can use your same arguments for SWTOR yet you had no problem saying that game felt like a single player experience. How do you differentiate between the two?
Oh that's an easy one . Here is why I think SWTOR could feel like an SP experience...
1. The zone sharding was so insane that you would see very few people in your shard...even on a freaking full server. This was so weird, being on a full server, yet seeing only one or two people running around.
2. The fact that the story was such a pervasive part of the game and constantly intermingled with open world PvE, made it almost always preferential for me to solo. Most people don't want to sit through my story which is on the way to an open world quest, and vice versa.
3. The game suffered from the typical issues that quest hub games have with grouping where you really need to be on the same quest with someone to group.
4. The game suffered from the typical issues that level-stratified games have with grouping, where you need to be very close in level with someone to group.
In the end, numbers 1 and 2 were the big, big problems. WAAAAY too much sharding, and making what is essentially a single player story that star of an MMORPG is just a bad idea.
Now the flashpoints and BGs were clearly multiplayer...but this is really nothing that you couldn't find in a non-MMO multiplayer game like Borderlands.
I agree with #1 but didn't have so much an issue with 2-4 (3 and 4 primarily because this problem exists in most MMOs). And with #2, the same could be said for GW2.
But for the problems you listed, you could still use the same advice you gave me to apply to that game as well.
Oh that's an easy one . Here is why I think SWTOR could feel like an SP experience...
1. The zone sharding was so insane that you would see very few people in your shard...even on a freaking full server. This was so weird, being on a full server, yet seeing only one or two people running around.
2. The fact that the story was such a pervasive part of the game and constantly intermingled with open world PvE, made it almost always preferential for me to solo. Most people don't want to sit through my story which is on the way to an open world quest, and vice versa.
3. The game suffered from the typical issues that quest hub games have with grouping where you really need to be on the same quest with someone to group.
4. The game suffered from the typical issues that level-stratified games have with grouping, where you need to be very close in level with someone to group.
In the end, numbers 1 and 2 were the big, big problems. WAAAAY too much sharding, and making what is essentially a single player story that star of an MMORPG is just a bad idea.
Now the flashpoints and BGs were clearly multiplayer...but this is really nothing that you couldn't find in a non-MMO multiplayer game like Borderlands.
Just to add to this... companions as well. I could solo 4 star stuff as a Sage with my companion. There was zero reason for me to group (even though I often did anyway to break up the monotony of linear questing).
This is true. But most mobs you can solo in GW2 as well except the occassional boss or DE boss (and of course, dungeons).
way I see it, these features like no tagging, and events don't exactly promote people to socialize... when I played gw2, seemed like most people would do there own thing, and when someone needed help, or event happened... people just did them. and said nothing... because you didn't need to. hell even in pvp was same way.
And sadly most themepark mmos, including gw2 puging dungeons have no social aspects at all. Often i would say "hey hows it going guys" or simliar and get no replies, or maybe one ( usually be that guy to try to explain things, and often just tell people to get out of circles.) but since gw2 is on easier side, communication is exactly required.
But this is not a problem with just gw2, its coming to be all to common in many mmos. thats why a good guild is required to not get burned out.
Originally posted by immodium In GW2 design manifesto they state they are making MMO's more social. Which they clearly haven't.
I think they got confused with Co-op and being social.
I think they got confused with playing together vs. alongside.
Sure, but I still just don't see how being in a group is any more social. Even in a formal group there is STILL no requirement to talk about things except tactical banter like "ready" or "go left."
I honestly can't say I remember a single person from PUGs I've been in, in any game, including Everquest. And the reason is simple...I didn't really socialize with them, and had no desire to.
I guess it would help if you told us exactly what it was that you found to be so much more social in other games. Like give us examples of activities that you found social in them.
Well, SWG had a lot of socialization but that falls into the realm of sanbox so I'll leave that out.
LOTRO has a great social community. Tons of people would RP on the Landroval server. There were also informal crowds that gathered to play music or gathered at specific locations to I guess socialize and roleplay. I don't recall the specifics of the conversation but it could lead into discussions pertaining to RP, guilds they were in, or various other non-related topics.
EQ - I recall a lot of RP going on when I played. My character was some sort of Elf race and I recall running into a group of dwarves and although we helped each other take down a mob or mobs I could tell there was a certain animosity from them towards me as they kept calling me "long ears" and asking if "i knew how to use my sword"
DDO - I forget the dungeon I was in, but it was the one in early teens with a wide open circular area and kobolds or something raining down flame objects on you. You had to destroy certain items to open up rooms. Well, the fighter involved was really good and he used his shield to block the whole party. We all stood there hunkered down behind him...we complemented him on the tactics he was using because as obvious as it may have sounded the encounter was fast spaced and surprisingly effective. During, we also engaged in some fairly casual conversation like one would while stuck in an elevator. But most of all, the tactics involved....
These are just some examples I can give you off the top of my head.
I think you will find the "tactical" kind of socialization you mention in the explorable mode dungeons. I've seen plenty of people complement others, or chastise them (lol), for their actions in an explorable mode dungeon. Simply because...it's a high pressure situation, and what you do really matters. This contrasts from the open world where there typically isn't that much of a challenge.
In fact, one of the funniest social experiences I had in GW2, was when this player kept telling us we were exploiting for pulling mobs in a dungeon lol ...he eventually left stating "Getting a few tokens and silver ain't worth getting banned over."
As for the RP stuff...I think you need to give the community a chance to mature. Whenever a new game comes out, everyone is typically about just playing, leveling, and enjoying the game features. But as time goes on...I think you'll see more and more RP stuff going on in the TC server.
I mean, as you know there already are roleplayers around right now...but there are just so many other folks just looking to level that they outnumber them.
I dunno, I guess in the end, my experience in GW2 has not lacked in the social department. I have met tons of people, and my friends list is always growing.
It's just going to be what you make of it.
The problem is I don't like the dungeon experience (or what I've tried of it) in this game. But of course, there is always room for change.
Well, then that may be your problem right there...if you don't like dungeons or PvP/WvW (not sure if you said you didnt' like these), then you're missing out on the more social parts of the game.
The open world stuff CAN be social, but it is typically less social than dungeons on PvP/WvW. Basically, if you want to be social in the open world, it's your responsibility to meet some friends and party with them. Dungeons and WvW/PvP basically do this all for you...
But in other games and even the other examples I gave (save DDO) those were all social experiences I experienced outside PVP and dungeons. So in a game that has touted itself to play as you want it, they are sure restricting the social part to playing it a certain way.
Edit: Creslin, you can use your same arguments for SWTOR yet you had no problem saying that game felt like a single player experience. How do you differentiate between the two?
Oh that's an easy one . Here is why I think SWTOR could feel like an SP experience...
1. The zone sharding was so insane that you would see very few people in your shard...even on a freaking full server. This was so weird, being on a full server, yet seeing only one or two people running around.
2. The fact that the story was such a pervasive part of the game and constantly intermingled with open world PvE, made it almost always preferential for me to solo. Most people don't want to sit through my story which is on the way to an open world quest, and vice versa.
3. The game suffered from the typical issues that quest hub games have with grouping where you really need to be on the same quest with someone to group.
4. The game suffered from the typical issues that level-stratified games have with grouping, where you need to be very close in level with someone to group.
In the end, numbers 1 and 2 were the big, big problems. WAAAAY too much sharding, and making what is essentially a single player story that star of an MMORPG is just a bad idea.
Now the flashpoints and BGs were clearly multiplayer...but this is really nothing that you couldn't find in a non-MMO multiplayer game like Borderlands.
I agree with #1 but didn't have so much an issue with 2-4 (3 and 4 primarily because this problem exists in most MMOs). And with #2, the same could be said for GW2.
But for the problems you listed, you could still use the same advice you gave me to apply to that game as well.
Well kind of...SWTOR has the good ol' level/quest restrictions to grouping, so grouping is not so easy in it as it would be in GW2. So I don't think my advice is transferable to SWTOR.
As for the story thing, I am not a big fan of personal stories in MMORPGs, and GW2 is not excluded from that. BUT the only thing I like about GW2's story is that it is not nearly as big a part of the game as SWTOR's story is. GW2 has a story, but it's clearly not the main focus of the game. SWTOR's story is basically the main focus of the game, and I thought that was a really stupid thing to focus an MMORPG on.
That said, I don't think I complained that SWTOR was non-social...I more complained that it just "felt" like an SP game sometimes because you hardly ever saw anyone due to sharding, and the social hubs were so poor that there was no point in hanging out in them.
GW2 has just the right amount of "social" for my tastes in an MMO. I login and head to a mission. Others are there. We win the challenge. Everyone gets credit and rewards. We don't have to compete over the nearby resource nodes after we're done. Everyone goes on to whatever they want to do next.
I don't play MMOs to chit-chat, talk politics or religion, compare my computer specs with geeks, or discuss WoW (regardless of what MMO I'm logged into).
My MMO doesn't need to be "social", unless social is defined as "people working together to do stuff". Anything more then that typically isn't part of the game mechanics beyond just text in the chat system.
It's just the way MMO development has taken the genre, in my opinion.
Comments
I meant the part in blue.
Technically yes, but practically no.
Other games continue to punish you for staying in one group. GW2 doesn't, as long as they are still online. I can't count how many times, in previous games, I've run into situations where I couldn't play with a friend, because our lvls weren't close enough, or we didn't have the same quests. That doesn't really happen in GW2. Even if they're not 80, I can still play w/ my friends and get something out of the experience.
I don't have any interest in doing the PVP end right now, so I am only commenting on the PVE side. Since I've stated before I don't like the dungeon experience (might have said this in another thread, actually) in GW2, I don't participate in them.
I typically play an MMORPG for the journey to 80. Once I hit max level I am typically done with either the character or the game.
Edit: Just for the record, I don't agree with the OP's assement that this is the least social MMO out. However, I do believe with the way the have designed it that it doesn't contribute to social play as much as other MMOs.
Well, then that may be your problem right there...if you don't like dungeons or PvP/WvW (not sure if you said you didnt' like these), then you're missing out on the more social parts of the game.
The open world stuff CAN be social, but it is typically less social than dungeons on PvP/WvW. Basically, if you want to be social in the open world, it's your responsibility to meet some friends and party with them. Dungeons and WvW/PvP basically do this all for you...
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I play most games for fun. It's not all about the XP, gear for me. I will happily help out people in lower level areas than me for guildies or if I'm passing through a zone.
I'll hold back though. I just won't steam roll the enemies for the lowbies. So they learn to play.
The beef I have with this whole social topic is ANET's claim of making this MMO more social than others. They just haven't. When I try and think about how they have done this, I come to the realisation that if anything they have made it less sociable than others.
But in other games and even the other examples I gave (save DDO) those were all social experiences I experienced outside PVP and dungeons. So in a game that has touted itself to play as you want it, they are sure restricting the social part to playing it a certain way.
Edit: Creslin, you can use your same arguments for SWTOR yet you had no problem saying that game felt like a single player experience. How do you differentiate between the two?
At the end of the day...
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Socializing will ALWAYS be up to the players in the end. No matter what kind of "social features" a game puts in, it will always be up to the players to actually use them.
In my experience, players have been using them just fine in GW2.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Weird.. that hasn't been my experience in GW2. In fact I can't walk without the chat log being filled with all sorts of talk. I can't login to world vs world without someone shouting tactics and vent info to all the new joiners.
I have yet to experience the problem you're going through. LOTRO has always had an active community since it involves tons of role-play elements.
Social aspects have always been a part of role-playing communites and servers.
Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW.
Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2
Agreed 100%. People, differences of opinion are okay, and in no way was the OP any form of flamebait at all. It's one persons honest opinion about a game.
As for my response to the OP:
I can see why you feel the game is anti-social. It's one of the more complicated effects of how the game is designed. You have a mmo where cooperation in encouraged, and you see folks going around helping each other all of the time, ex: rezzing random folks, tossing out healing effects, combo effects, ad-hoc grouping. At the same time, a certain level of social interaction isn't required in order to help other folks. You can be in an unofficial group with someone, run around together killing the same things, but never say a word to one another.
What is completely different from my experiences is that I haven't seen as much blantant trolling in game as I do in other mmos. I see more helpful chat in the zone chats, people as questions and get real answers. You don't have that one dick running around tagging things right as you're about to hit them and then runs off and earns xps while you don't (part of the game design), and I don't see folks just going out and trying to make someone else's day miserable. Which is something I've seen numerous times in other mmos.
Part of the effect I believe is how anti-social many mmos have become over the years. You weren't encouraged to help others or even really group up during the leveling process. Everyone else is just a faceless cog in the game. So, getting out of that mentality is extremely difficult. If more mmos start to use similar systems where everyone who helps gets full xps and rewards regardless, you will probably start to see more social interactions.
The bottom line is that it takes at least two people for a social interaction. If you are running around and not saying anything to anyone, then chances are no one else will talk to you. If you are running around, randomly chatting with people you run into, you will eventually break through and others will interact with you as well. I wouldn't say that GW2 is the most antisocial game ever, but rather the community has been trained to be antisocial for many years. Change happens slowly.
What server are you playing on? I play on Tarnished Coast and have found that to be the most lively. But I would hardly consider the chat log to be full of talk.
The only thing that I can really see GW2 "missing" that other games had that may have encouraged socializing is group quests...but I really don't think that and that alone is going to make the game so much less social. Especially considering that group quests are typically few and far between anyway.
I dunno, I haven't experienced these problems you are talking about...but maybe that is because I'm not really looking to socialize while doing open world stuff...which could contribute to your problem
.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I added an edit to my previous post in case you don't see it.
I agree with that. I just think the tools ANET implemented to make it more "social" (which TBH, is a bold claim by ANET. When it's down to the player) just didn't work.
I agree. ANET tends to exaggerate their claims tenfold I've noticed. Just something to keep in mind when they tout anything else new.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
Yep. Good ideas.
Good points.
Personally, I'd love if the game had an ingame voice chat system, and some kinda UI for public groups. Would make it easier to play w/ randoms, for sure. Especially in WvW.
Aside from that, I think a large part of what makes the game social (or not) depends on the player. If a person isn't putting in any effort to talk to people, make friends, or have fun w/ others, then the game isn't going to seem very social. On the other hand, if you are making the effort, the game can be a lot of fun, and I've met some pretty cool people doing so.
Oh that's an easy one
. Here is why I think SWTOR could feel like an SP experience...
1. The zone sharding was so insane that you would see very few people in your shard...even on a freaking full server. This was so weird, being on a full server, yet seeing only one or two people running around.
2. The fact that the story was such a pervasive part of the game and constantly intermingled with open world PvE, made it almost always preferential for me to solo. Most people don't want to sit through my story which is on the way to an open world quest, and vice versa.
3. The game suffered from the typical issues that quest hub games have with grouping where you really need to be on the same quest with someone to group.
4. The game suffered from the typical issues that level-stratified games have with grouping, where you need to be very close in level with someone to group.
In the end, numbers 1 and 2 were the big, big problems. WAAAAY too much sharding, and making what is essentially a single player story that star of an MMORPG is just a bad idea.
Now the flashpoints and BGs were clearly multiplayer...but this is really nothing that you couldn't find in a non-MMO multiplayer game like Borderlands.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I actually disagree.
I've been playing MMORPGs with my cousin for years, and yet I could hardly ever group with him because we were either not close enough in level, or had completely different quests.
In GW2...I can group with him whenever I want. Maybe to you that isn't a big deal, but to me, that is a HUGE deal.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Just to add to this... companions as well. I could solo 4 star stuff as a Sage with my companion. There was zero reason for me to group (even though I often did anyway to break up the monotony of linear questing).
I agree with #1 but didn't have so much an issue with 2-4 (3 and 4 primarily because this problem exists in most MMOs). And with #2, the same could be said for GW2.
But for the problems you listed, you could still use the same advice you gave me to apply to that game as well.
This is true. But most mobs you can solo in GW2 as well except the occassional boss or DE boss (and of course, dungeons).
way I see it, these features like no tagging, and events don't exactly promote people to socialize... when I played gw2, seemed like most people would do there own thing, and when someone needed help, or event happened... people just did them. and said nothing... because you didn't need to. hell even in pvp was same way.
And sadly most themepark mmos, including gw2 puging dungeons have no social aspects at all. Often i would say "hey hows it going guys" or simliar and get no replies, or maybe one ( usually be that guy to try to explain things, and often just tell people to get out of circles.) but since gw2 is on easier side, communication is exactly required.
But this is not a problem with just gw2, its coming to be all to common in many mmos. thats why a good guild is required to not get burned out.
Well kind of...SWTOR has the good ol' level/quest restrictions to grouping, so grouping is not so easy in it as it would be in GW2. So I don't think my advice is transferable to SWTOR.
As for the story thing, I am not a big fan of personal stories in MMORPGs, and GW2 is not excluded from that. BUT the only thing I like about GW2's story is that it is not nearly as big a part of the game as SWTOR's story is. GW2 has a story, but it's clearly not the main focus of the game. SWTOR's story is basically the main focus of the game, and I thought that was a really stupid thing to focus an MMORPG on.
That said, I don't think I complained that SWTOR was non-social...I more complained that it just "felt" like an SP game sometimes because you hardly ever saw anyone due to sharding, and the social hubs were so poor that there was no point in hanging out in them.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
GW2 has just the right amount of "social" for my tastes in an MMO. I login and head to a mission. Others are there. We win the challenge. Everyone gets credit and rewards. We don't have to compete over the nearby resource nodes after we're done. Everyone goes on to whatever they want to do next.
I don't play MMOs to chit-chat, talk politics or religion, compare my computer specs with geeks, or discuss WoW (regardless of what MMO I'm logged into).
My MMO doesn't need to be "social", unless social is defined as "people working together to do stuff". Anything more then that typically isn't part of the game mechanics beyond just text in the chat system.
It's just the way MMO development has taken the genre, in my opinion.
(This thread seems awful familiar.)