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Repairs! (hope this isnt too nitpicky)

itchmonitchmon west islip, NYPosts: 1,714Member Uncommon

one of the little oddball details about DF that i found wierd was that you couldnt repair gear.  it would just degrade til poof.  i realize that items need to be removed from the game for the economy to thrive but it just seems that, realistically speaking and even RP speaking, that at the very least there should be a player skill to repair gear.

 

maybe it could take a portion of the items needed to craft it to fix it.  or maybe the item could only be repaired a finite number of times.  either way, if i have armour made out of hide, and i have some spare hides, i think i should be able to patch it up with those hides.

 

thoughts?

RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

Currently Playing EVE, DFUW

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.

Dwight D Eisenhower

My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.

Henry Rollins

Comments

  • HancakesHancakes flint, MIPosts: 1,045Member
    Originally posted by itchmon

    one of the little oddball details about DF that i found wierd was that you couldnt repair gear.  it would just degrade til poof.  i realize that items need to be removed from the game for the economy to thrive but it just seems that, realistically speaking and even RP speaking, that at the very least there should be a player skill to repair gear.

     

     

     

    thoughts?

    NO!!! (You just dont get it)

  • itchmonitchmon west islip, NYPosts: 1,714Member Uncommon
    enlighten me?  (in traditional size font if possible?)

    RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

    Currently Playing EVE, DFUW

    Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.

    Dwight D Eisenhower

    My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.

    Henry Rollins

  • jdlamson75jdlamson75 Jacksonville, FLPosts: 985Member Uncommon

    OP, are you really planning on having the same gear long enough to repair it repeatedly?

     

    Really, though, for the full loot aspect and the game itself to work, gear should degrade and not be repairable.  Otherwise, crafting would be meaningless (unless you DO lose all that stuff you had made).  I'm sure there are more and better points to make, but it's been a long day and I spent too much time out in the sun after work.  Little fried, am I.

  • HancakesHancakes flint, MIPosts: 1,045Member
    Originally posted by itchmon
    enlighten me?  (in traditional size font if possible?)

    Crafted items require a large number of unique resources,  repairing as you go or using gold would only devalue said resources. Which in turn will make controlling resources less important, plus you wont have your gear long enough to matter.

     

    I dont understand why people keep trying to "fix" things that arent broken.

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hancakes
    Originally posted by itchmon

    one of the little oddball details about DF that i found wierd was that you couldnt repair gear.  it would just degrade til poof.  i realize that items need to be removed from the game for the economy to thrive but it just seems that, realistically speaking and even RP speaking, that at the very least there should be a player skill to repair gear.

     

     

     

    thoughts?

    NO!!! (You just dont get it)

    I understand where you're coming from OP, but there's actually a good reason.

    Gear HAS to have a time limit on it.  All gear has to be temporary for two major reasons.  What it does is makes sure you never get attached to one piece of gear.  Now this doesn't always work, people still get attached to gear, but it gives the impression that if you use that piece of gear, it will eventually go away forever.  This is an important psychological aspect to FFA full-loot systems. 

    It is also important for the player-driven economy that there are no permanent items.  It ensures the economy won't get too flooded with undestroyable high-end items and devalue the resources needed to make them.

    I can see how a one-time repair could be good, but it would have to just be prolonging the life of a weapon or piece of armor.  Once something is repaired once it can never be repaired again, I'd be cool with that, as long as it took a fraction of the resources needed to make the item, to repair it.

  • 123443211234123443211234 seattle, WAPosts: 244Member

    Repairing is just not something that would work.  The entire economy of the game is based on the destruction of items, the continual need for stuff if you will.  Also, it really would not be necessary and likely would be more cost prohibitive than just getting a new thing made.  Most things are very cheap if you compare high end gear in darkfall in terms of hours or days to attain a set compared to the amount of time it takes in a grinder like say wow for example we are talking dirt ass cheap.  Really  no need to repair.

     

    Along those lines an idea that has been talked about at length I'm not sure if its actually gonna be in or not though would be something like a salvage.  I.E. you get some thing thats at like %50 durability left and break it down for a portiion of materials.  This would be extremely handy as usually you end up with a shit ton of mob dropped weapons or gear that have crappy stats compared to crafted stuff, but there still made out of the same stuff.   So you could break down 10 crappy mob dropped swords  and maybe craft 1-2 shiny new swords.

  • itchmonitchmon west islip, NYPosts: 1,714Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by Hancakes
    Originally posted by itchmon

    one of the little oddball details about DF that i found wierd was that you couldnt repair gear.  it would just degrade til poof.  i realize that items need to be removed from the game for the economy to thrive but it just seems that, realistically speaking and even RP speaking, that at the very least there should be a player skill to repair gear.

     

     

     

    thoughts?

    NO!!! (You just dont get it)

    I understand where you're coming from OP, but there's actually a good reason.

    Gear HAS to have a time limit on it.  All gear has to be temporary.  What it does is makes sure you never get attached to one piece of gear.  Now this doesn't always work, people still get attached to gear, but it gives the impression that if you use that piece of gear, it will eventually go away forever. 

    This is an important psychological aspect to FFA full-loot systems.  It is also important for the player-driven economy that there are no permanent items.

    I can see how a one-time repair could be good, but it would have to just be prolonging the life of a weapon or piece of armor.  Once something is repaired once it can never be repaired again, I'd be cool with that.

    i gotcha at least to a point.  thanks.  i guess it woujld help to state that my point of view for stuff like this is one of a 5 year player of eve.  in eve, of course, no gear is *really* permanent because it dies if you die.  however if your ship is merely damaged,, instead of smashed completely, then at an outpost you can repair your stuff.

     

    nothing lasts forever... because eventually you-sa gonna die.  but if you are careful you can keep your "precious" for a while.

     

    would something along those lines work?  damage from non-fatal encounters is repairable but dying permanently and irrevokably damages an item?

    RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

    Currently Playing EVE, DFUW

    Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.

    Dwight D Eisenhower

    My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.

    Henry Rollins

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by itchmon
    enlighten me?  (in traditional size font if possible?)

    It's just a knee jerk reaction to a proposed change. UO handled this rather well in the early days. Items had a max durrability that degraded with each repair meaning eventually items went poof. This allowed players to repair but maintain the need to continue to buy new items. 

  • hcoelhohcoelho Rio de JaneiroPosts: 529Member

    haha its so fucking funny to read those posts.

     

    The hype this game is building will be a bad thing in the end, people that have no clue what the game is about and the concept behind it are getting too damn excited to play it and that smells like frustration.

    Take no offense OP, but if you don't get or accept that item decay is MANDATORY for this type of game you will suffer playing it. Btw, Most of  your gear you'll drop before it breaks.

     

    WIthout item decay the economy is dead, fights over resourcers will be dead at some point and the game will have more itens than players to use it, but it'll be in such a ridiculous rate that looting an enemy will be worthless.

    Crafting would be just for consumables and enchants.

  • HancakesHancakes flint, MIPosts: 1,045Member
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
    Originally posted by itchmon
    enlighten me?  (in traditional size font if possible?)

    It's just a knee jerk reaction to a proposed change. UO handled this rather well in the early days. Items had a max durrability that degraded with each repair meaning eventually items went poof. This allowed players to repair but maintain the need to continue to buy new items. 

    How does repairing items add anything to the game? I also remember UO high end items being rather rare and coveted, thus only pulled out for PvP prior to server down/roll back.

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by itchmon
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by Hancakes
    Originally posted by itchmon

    one of the little oddball details about DF that i found wierd was that you couldnt repair gear.  it would just degrade til poof.  i realize that items need to be removed from the game for the economy to thrive but it just seems that, realistically speaking and even RP speaking, that at the very least there should be a player skill to repair gear.

     

     

     

    thoughts?

    NO!!! (You just dont get it)

    I understand where you're coming from OP, but there's actually a good reason.

    Gear HAS to have a time limit on it.  All gear has to be temporary.  What it does is makes sure you never get attached to one piece of gear.  Now this doesn't always work, people still get attached to gear, but it gives the impression that if you use that piece of gear, it will eventually go away forever. 

    This is an important psychological aspect to FFA full-loot systems.  It is also important for the player-driven economy that there are no permanent items.

    I can see how a one-time repair could be good, but it would have to just be prolonging the life of a weapon or piece of armor.  Once something is repaired once it can never be repaired again, I'd be cool with that.

    i gotcha at least to a point.  thanks.  i guess it woujld help to state that my point of view for stuff like this is one of a 5 year player of eve.  in eve, of course, no gear is *really* permanent because it dies if you die.  however if your ship is merely damaged,, instead of smashed completely, then at an outpost you can repair your stuff.

     

    nothing lasts forever... because eventually you-sa gonna die.  but if you are careful you can keep your "precious" for a while.

     

    would something along those lines work?  damage from non-fatal encounters is repairable but dying permanently and irrevokably damages an item?

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but in EvE, isn't it that you don't get all the items a ship drops when it is destroyed, like maybe 50% of them will drop at most, but the rest are destroyed?

    That's the major difference.  In Darkfall, ALL your gear drops, as is.  So whoever kills you gets it all, (or you come back and pick it up if you're lucky and/or killed by a mob) ostensibly, so that gear just gets recycled back into the economy immediately.

    There might be a rare occasion where your grave will disappear unclaimed (after about an hour) but I doubt that would ever happen.  So 99% of the time, ALL your items go back into the economy, if they were permanent there would be much less need to continue gathering resources and, well, playing the PvE/crafting/gathering aspects of the game.

  • HancakesHancakes flint, MIPosts: 1,045Member
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    So 99% of the time, ALL your items go back into the economy, if they were permanent there would be much less need to continue gathering resources and, well, playing the PvE/crafting/gathering aspects of the game.

     

     

    Well said 

     

      /thread

  • LustmordLustmord Mt. Gilead, OHPosts: 1,095Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
    Originally posted by itchmon
    enlighten me?  (in traditional size font if possible?)

    It's just a knee jerk reaction to a proposed change. UO handled this rather well in the early days. Items had a max durrability that degraded with each repair meaning eventually items went poof. This allowed players to repair but maintain the need to continue to buy new items. 

    exactly.

  • FluteFlute WellingtonPosts: 434Member
    Originally posted by itchmon

    one of the little oddball details about DF that i found wierd was that you couldnt repair gear.  it would just degrade til poof.  i realize that items need to be removed from the game for the economy to thrive but it just seems that, realistically speaking and even RP speaking, that at the very least there should be a player skill to repair gear.

     

    maybe it could take a portion of the items needed to craft it to fix it.  or maybe the item could only be repaired a finite number of times.  either way, if i have armour made out of hide, and i have some spare hides, i think i should be able to patch it up with those hides.

     

    thoughts?

    What they were talking about a year or two ago was being able to melt down old gear and use the bits you recovered to make new gear (likely getting only  proportion of the resources back when you cut t up, but still more than nothing).

     

    Part of why gear was always "going to break no matter what" was to soften the loss of gear in pvp - new old or nearly broken, most things in the game would break into nothing anyway if you didn't lose it in pvp, so everyone was simply in the habit of having spares.  When you made a bow, it was common to make a batch rather than just 1, for example.  I really like the idea of smelthing things down with recycling, and prefer that to repairing things. 

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Flute
    Originally posted by itchmon

    one of the little oddball details about DF that i found wierd was that you couldnt repair gear.  it would just degrade til poof.  i realize that items need to be removed from the game for the economy to thrive but it just seems that, realistically speaking and even RP speaking, that at the very least there should be a player skill to repair gear.

     

    maybe it could take a portion of the items needed to craft it to fix it.  or maybe the item could only be repaired a finite number of times.  either way, if i have armour made out of hide, and i have some spare hides, i think i should be able to patch it up with those hides.

     

    thoughts?

    What they were talking about a year or two ago was being able to melt down old gear and use the bits you recovered to make new gear (likely getting only  proportion of the resources back when you cut t up, but still more than nothing).

     

    Part of why gear was always "going to break no matter what" was to soften the loss of gear in pvp - new old or nearly broken, most things in the game would break into nothing anyway if you didn't lose it in pvp, so everyone was simply in the habit of having spares.  When you made a bow, it was common to make a batch rather than just 1, for example.  I really like the idea of smelthing things down with recycling, and prefer that to repairing things. 

    I like that too, could be cool.

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,661Member Uncommon

    One thing to keep in mind is that while you cant directly repair items, there are skills you can master which as they get higher continue reducing your durability loss allowing you to keep your stuff longer before it breaks. In a way it works kind of like having limited repairs on your gear. Your stuff will last you much longer than the guy who doesnt have that skill, or has it at a lower level.

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by kaiser3282

    One thing to keep in mind is that while you cant directly repair items, there are skills you can master which as they get higher continue reducing your durability loss allowing you to keep your stuff longer before it breaks. In a way it works kind of like having limited repairs on your gear. Your stuff will last you much longer than the guy who doesnt have that skill, or has it at a lower level.

    Maintenance.  I maxxed that!

    Also the better you are at crafting, the more durability a weapon or armor piece will have too, and therefore the longer it lasts.

  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden gdfgfPosts: 4,333Member

    NO !

     

    But the direction DF takes i wouldn't be surpised if you can can repair items or better ites dobnt decay and are all looted.  

    -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
    $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
    -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

    "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,661Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by kaiser3282

    One thing to keep in mind is that while you cant directly repair items, there are skills you can master which as they get higher continue reducing your durability loss allowing you to keep your stuff longer before it breaks. In a way it works kind of like having limited repairs on your gear. Your stuff will last you much longer than the guy who doesnt have that skill, or has it at a lower level.

    Maintenance.  I maxxed that!

    Also the better you are at crafting, the more durability a weapon or armor piece will have too, and therefore the longer it lasts.

    Also there is transmuting via enchantment. While it wont repair your item directly, you can transmute it to an elemental enchanted weapon of that type (sword, bow, knives, etc). You can take a nearly broken sword, transmute it, and get a sword with a decent amount of durability still on it.

    While it wont let you keep that same exact weapon longer, if youre doing transmuting with higher ranked weapons youre going to usually get stronger versions of the transmute.

    Anyway, point is there are some ways to reduce the "loss" of items without having an actual repair function. Personally I prefer it the way it is. It creates more of a purpose to mastering such skills and learning how to make use of them rather than everyone in the game being able to just click repair and be done with it. As the main enchanter in my clan I typically had a lot of people in the clan giving me low dura stuff to transmute so they could turn around and use elemental weapons for farming specific mobs with weaknesses to those elements.

  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,088Member Uncommon
    The system mabinogi had with reoairs could work imo, There system was durability dragrades but when you repair it it has a chance to reduce the maximum durability on it, so eventualy it willd egrade to the point its becvome merchant trash cause when it gets to like 4 max dura left its not worth anything anymore, ofcourse sell value reduces when max dura is reduced.
  • psykobillypsykobilly NYC, NYPosts: 338Member
    Originally posted by Hancakes
    Originally posted by itchmon
    enlighten me?  (in traditional size font if possible?)

    Crafted items require a large number of unique resources,  repairing as you go or using gold would only devalue said resources. Which in turn will make controlling resources less important, plus you wont have your gear long enough to matter.

     

    I dont understand why people keep trying to "fix" things that arent broken.

    Actually in DF 1.0 they don't tke a lot of unique resources...   maybe rank 60 and up, but below that everything is pretty easy to make.

    What takes a lot of resources is the grind to raise your crafting skills.  Since you can no longer grind on rank 0 items, crafting might turn out to be a real bitch in DF:UW.

    While there should not be a repair skill, there was a maintenance skill in DF1 which caused your weapons to degrade less quickly.

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