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The number 1 rule of sandboxes..(lookin' at you Smed)

PittyHPittyH MelbournePosts: 116Member

 

 

The number 1 rule of sandboxes is... "Items must be able to be destroyed".

Every single item must either degrade on use, or be completely destroyed from either A NPC or a Player / Environment.

This in turn creates an ecconomy, and prevents market inflation.

It creates player jobs/crafting/trading etc etc.

 

 

I think the number 2 rule should be "Every item in the game can also be crafted"

 

Just like eve online

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Comments

  • anemoanemo Posts: 760Member Uncommon
    Cheers for crafting

    Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

    "There are still vast swaths of our planet's surface in which it's surprisingly easy to lose things. Even a ship the size of a large building." Richard Fisher

  • VengerVenger York, PAPosts: 1,318Member
    Maybe not 1 and 2 but very high on the list.
  • DSWBeefDSWBeef phoenix, AZPosts: 791Member
    Number 2 is number 1 for me. While your number 1 is low on my list of a good sandbox.

    Playing: War Thunder, World of Warcraft, and Grim Dawn
    Waiting on:Everquest Next and The Black Desert

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member

    Rule #3:   Items* should have 3d representations that can be placed in your house. 

     

    *including junk loot, crafting materials/components.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • busdriverbusdriver nyPosts: 859Member

    I expect to be in the minority with this, but I think it is something that greatly improves gameworld economy:

    Only 1 toon/account.

    This allows dedicated crafters to have a important role in the game. If "everyone" has a crafter alt, it kills the market, inflation starts its ugly work from day 1 and soon lower level equipment has next to no value at all.

  • skamperskamper Houston, TXPosts: 252Member
    Originally posted by busdriver

    I expect to be in the minority with this, but I think it is something that greatly improves gameworld economy:

    Only 1 toon/account.

    This allows dedicated crafters to have a important role in the game. If "everyone" has a crafter alt, it kills the market, inflation starts its ugly work from day 1 and soon lower level equipment has next to no value at all.

    I agree with this, except 1 character per server. If the game has 10 servers you could play a mage on ABDC and a craft on XYZ. But ya one character.

    Plus it removes meta-gaming and focuses more on the RP of the character / player. Choices will have consequence, etc. Can't log on your alt to pwn some noob, when they take your crafting node. Whatever. You get it.

  • Acebets70Acebets70 Millbury, OHPosts: 204Member Uncommon

    I support Proposition #1 

    Vote yes!!!!

  • BossalinieBossalinie Hattiesburg, MSPosts: 683Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DSWBeef
    Number 2 is number 1 for me. While your number 1 is low on my list of a good sandbox.

    2 won't last long without 1. Without 1, you'll run out of things to craft with purpose.

  • ThorqemadaThorqemada BerlinPosts: 1,277Member Uncommon

    Its one of the fundamentals of a successfull economy - so yes.

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  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon

    I'm curious how do those who want only one of the two rules see a sandbox economy stable. maybe they have some ideas we don't. I'm interested.

     

    the way I see it is everyone makes either as much money as they lose (obviously, cant go negative in most mmo's. the game won't allow it. ) or they make more than they spend. (ideal, everyone wants to be in this group).

     

    problem is...inflation. if an mmo lives long, it becomes a big barrier for newcommers. wealth goes up, prices go up. especially in a sandbox where economy is player-driven and unregulated.

     

    So...typically when I think of this problem I see the solution as a matter of "stuff going in vs stuff going out" balance. Well if stuff isn't going out but just shifting from player to player and stuff is constantly getting in...you end up with new players needing to work harder and harder, and old players not at all - since they benefit from the lower players.

     

    I think stuff going out is critical to keep the demand of stuff going in high. I'm not a pvp'er. I'm a crafter and pve'er. I need pvp'ers to break their toys, that way I can sell them more toys. in my fantasy, I'm the arms dealer.

    image

  • PhlaccPhlacc Surrey, BCPosts: 37Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by busdriver

    I expect to be in the minority with this, but I think it is something that greatly improves gameworld economy:

    Only 1 toon/account.

    This allows dedicated crafters to have a important role in the game. If "everyone" has a crafter alt, it kills the market, inflation starts its ugly work from day 1 and soon lower level equipment has next to no value at all.

     

    I would agree. This is exactly what would help. Although, I'm sure most gamers would be in an uproar about it because they are so used to multiple characters, but I still think this would be an excellent way to do it.

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon

    alternatively...1 char/acc reduces a very fun part of meta-gaming : SPYING.

     

    image

  • goblagobla somewherePosts: 1,411Member

    Very true. Both of these really form the core of a sandbox's economy, which is a vital part of it.

    Whilst less important I'd add an additional rule that every material must be usefull.

    Standard MMO crafting progression starting with bronze, which is soon replaced by iron and others, eventually repliced by arcanium / unobtanium / magical super metal #36 doesn't really work for a sandbox as it will turn 90% of items and crafting recipes effectively useless.

    This in turn will, once the game reaches maturity, leave you with an overpriced and barren newbie item market and leave all areas that don't possess the best crafting materials empty and devoid of any player industry.

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    Resistance is futile.
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  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,255Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by PittyH

     

     

    The number 1 rule of sandboxes is... "Items must be able to be destroyed".

    Every single item must either degrade on use, or be completely destroyed from either A NPC or a Player / Environment.

    This in turn creates an ecconomy, and prevents market inflation.

    It creates player jobs/crafting/trading etc etc.

     

     

    I think the number 2 rule should be "Every item in the game can also be crafted"

     

    Just like eve online

    How is that number 1 rule? Number 1 rule to sandbox should be the Sand, aka changeable world. None of that fixed static crap,

    image

  • robthemaniacrobthemaniac Atlanta, GAPosts: 57Member

    I agree with 1 and 2.

    On the 1 char per account, I'm not so sure. If people want a crafting alt, let them have it. What would happen if you didn't? People would just create a second account and host their crafting alt on that. The problem then, is that significantly less people would be able or willing to financially support that, so it creates a game where the few are able to enjoy a luxury that is not an option/realistic opportunity to many of their subscribers.

     

     

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon

    Gobla has a very strong and usually underrated point.

     

    the fact that i was mining tritanium in eve 3 years ago, and the fact that i was mining tritanium last night means the ore's value ddoesn't depreciate as playerbase advances. on the contrary, the demand grows.

     

    maybe themeparks are all about creating a new supply of new stuff, and sandboxes are all about creating new demand of existing stuff?

     

    would that be an accurate statement? forever redistributing the sand rather than creating new, better sand every few months?

    image

  • ZushakonZushakon JönköpingPosts: 119Member
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    alternatively...1 char/acc reduces a very fun part of meta-gaming : SPYING.

     

    No, it just makes it so that spying is actually a challenge and a real commitment!

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  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Ehm... not really. Not even a requirement.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by gobla

    Very true. Both of these really form the core of a sandbox's economy, which is a vital part of it.

    Whilst less important I'd add an additional rule that every material must be usefull.

    Standard MMO crafting progression starting with bronze, which is soon replaced by iron and others, eventually repliced by arcanium / unobtanium / magical super metal #36 doesn't really work for a sandbox as it will turn 90% of items and crafting recipes effectively useless.

    This in turn will, once the game reaches maturity, leave you with an overpriced and barren newbie item market and leave all areas that don't possess the best crafting materials empty and devoid of any player industry.

    Sure. But lets be honest, not every material can be made useful. There will be materials which are less useful or outright useless. Its a balance thing.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • goblagobla somewherePosts: 1,411Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by gobla

    Very true. Both of these really form the core of a sandbox's economy, which is a vital part of it.

    Whilst less important I'd add an additional rule that every material must be usefull.

    Standard MMO crafting progression starting with bronze, which is soon replaced by iron and others, eventually repliced by arcanium / unobtanium / magical super metal #36 doesn't really work for a sandbox as it will turn 90% of items and crafting recipes effectively useless.

    This in turn will, once the game reaches maturity, leave you with an overpriced and barren newbie item market and leave all areas that don't possess the best crafting materials empty and devoid of any player industry.

    Sure. But lets be honest, not every material can be made useful. There will be materials which are less useful or outright useless. Its a balance thing.

    Hardly.

    Simply make every item require a large variety of materials.

    If iron items also require a measure of bronze to craft then this will insure there's still a demand for bronze, which in turn stimulates a healthy supply as well as competition which will cause the market for bronze items themselves to remain alive as well.

    EvE is a wonderfull example of this. There are many rare materials from moons and wormholes that are required to create advanced T2 and T3 items. Yet in order to construct any of these materials you still require all the base materials in EvE.

    Around 99% of all modules in EvE require the most common material, tritanium, to be constructed.

    We are the bunny.
    Resistance is futile.
    ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
    ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
    (")("),,(")("),(")(")

  • JWTunaJWTuna PlymouthPosts: 23Member

    Without an intricate and responsive economy, all other sandbox features are basicially irrelevent. So I agree completely with anything ~ item degrade, crafting, etc ~ that makes an economy more interactive and complex. 

     

    Technically territory control alone makes a sanbox of some form, but it is very shallow if this control has no impact beyond "I am here, you are not...haha!". If territory control limits access to crafting materials, certain NPC traders, etc, which are esential to keeping a weapon in your hand (because of item degrade); that has a real influence on an active economy, so it is a much better sandbox. Money is a great incentive to keep people active and changing thier world - as oppose to territory control which only limits leveling or gear, which will inevitably die as games mature and new content is added.

  • LarlochLarloch Antioch, CAPosts: 19Member
    I don't mind if crafting is a big deal as long as you can still find items. I hate how in Fallen Earth a guy could be blasting you with his gun and if you kill him you can't even take it. Materials and crafting are a great way to get the little kiddies to go out and play in the sand but it's not the only way. I personally think crafting should be supplemental especially in a fantasy mmo.
  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo LondonPosts: 3,221Member

    Wow, that's really abstracted down. Hard to disagree with... I'm tryin'.

  • ApraxisApraxis RegensburgPosts: 1,515Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    Originally posted by PittyH

     

     

    The number 1 rule of sandboxes is... "Items must be able to be destroyed".

    Every single item must either degrade on use, or be completely destroyed from either A NPC or a Player / Environment.

    This in turn creates an ecconomy, and prevents market inflation.

    It creates player jobs/crafting/trading etc etc.

     

     

    I think the number 2 rule should be "Every item in the game can also be crafted"

     

    Just like eve online

    How is that number 1 rule? Number 1 rule to sandbox should be the Sand, aka changeable world. None of that fixed static crap,

    No.. it is the number one rule.. maybe a little bit generalized. Be able to create objects, and those objects have to be able to be destroyed. That is the sand. If those objects are weapons, armors, houses, vegetables, roads, cities, fortresses or whatever is just the amount of sand. But that is basicly the essence of a sandbox.

    Another rule might be, that those objects have to be persistent(until destruction) and tradeable. No bind on equip or bind on pickup.

  • AzureProwerAzurePrower AustraliaPosts: 1,508Member Uncommon

    I've pretty much come to the conclusion that sand box fans will never be satisfied because they don't really know what they want.

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