Posts like this are what people constantly use to try and convince others (or maybe themselves) that somehow that brand new shiny is something different. Chess is supposed to be different because the parts are made in a factory?!?!? sorry buddy but it's still chess just like all those shiny bells and whistles don't make the other bike any less a bike than the old schwinns we used to ride.
Very much how every new and innovative mmorpg I have ever played simply reminded me of a different way to do something I've been doing for years and even before the mmorpg genre came about.
I can't help but feel sorry that your existance is so shallow that you're incapable of finding joy in owning and holding a chess set made to resemble your favorite fantasy or sci-fi IP.
That you're incapable of finding pleasure in riding on a finely tuned mountain-bike with enough gears and suspension to enable you to ride smoothly and speedily over varied terrain.
Every little aspect of an experience matters. Not much, but it still matters. If extra 'bells and whistles' enhance my experience and enjoyement thereof then I'd be a fool to dismiss them.
Doing things the way they've always been done and dismissing any and all additions as useless and frivolous regardless of their effect on your experience is sheer idiocy.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
I was actually expecting something like the following picture's in this topic:
Old School MMORPG's
Most of today's MMO's
Not bad, but the old school MMO/bicycle picture should show a group of people together while the on rails version should have only one rider alone by him/herself.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Why do you still ride your bike? They haven't upgraded the experience in ages, it's still the same old tired formula of two pedals and handlebars.
I'm amazed how these people continue to do the same thing year after year. Don't they know that if something's old, it's automatically bad? Only the most hardcore fanboys could stick with something for that long and I find that sad.
/end, I guess I made my point
P.S.: in case I didn't, the point is to answer the question: why I still play WoW
P.P.S.: chess would work, too
Fail analogy bud.
For one 'bicycles' aren't a formula. They're a machine, an invention, a tool. They're no more a formula than videogames (as a medium) are a formula. A better analogy would be to compare WoW w/ playing CoD games, or sports games, etc. Basically anything that interates w/ out really changing the base formula. Bicycles have evolved over time, just as the reasons for people to buy them. You need transportation. You don't need WoW.
That said, I get why people still play WoW. It's familiar, it's comfortable, and it has enough new shinies to make people think they are getting something new now & again. It's the same deal w/ movies. We've essentially been watching the same films over and over again for the passed decade. As depressing as that is to think about, most people are actually okay with that, even if they don't like to admit it.
WoW is that way for the MMO genre. It's the penultimate 'appeal to the masses' videogame. It's fine if you still enjoy it (as many others do), but it shouldn't be surprising that many people are tired of it.
To go back to the horrible bike analogy. I can still take my bike out and have new experiences, go new places. I don't really get that same satisfaction from WoW.
I was actually expecting something like the following picture's in this topic:
Old School MMORPG's
Most of today's MMO's
Not bad, but the old school MMO/bicycle picture should show a group of people together while the on rails version should have only one rider alone by him/herself.
Fixed
Still feel picture 2 is very accurate and no matter if it's solo or grouped they all follow the same rails
Why do you still ride your bike? They haven't upgraded the experience in ages, it's still the same old tired formula of two pedals and handlebars.
I'm amazed how these people continue to do the same thing year after year. Don't they know that if something's old, it's automatically bad? Only the most hardcore fanboys could stick with something for that long and I find that sad.
/end, I guess I made my point
P.S.: in case I didn't, the point is to answer the question: why I still play WoW
P.P.S.: chess would work, too
Could not agree more with you. Such never happy people with anything are actually destroying games.
Originally posted by ste2000 In China 20 years ago, everyone used bikes. Today in China everyone has a car and very few (only the hardcore) use a bike. Just like the Western world, progress hit China and bike became obsolete. Bikes are still used as an healthy and eco friendly alternative to cars but they are a niche.
Obviously the analogy only works if you use the bike for fun / recreation, as you would videogames. Not as a life neccessity (adiction?).
Originally posted by nsignific "the original post"
When you grow up, you ride bikes for fun. You need a car, you have a bike because you enjoy it.
That's kind of my point. You don't discard something *just* because it's old, and there are technically superior products available.
Also, everyone pointing out advances in bicycle technology - the analogy sort of derails if you remove the assumption that bike = wow, which had technical updates and advances as well (expansions, engine upgrades, etc). It's still a bike, and not a car or a motorcycle, etc.
Whilst the OP's conclusion may be valid, there's indeed absolutely nothing wrong with older games like WoW. His reasoning is simply false, just because something old works does not mean that any attempts at improvement or innovation are futile.
So you feel it makes sense to knock people who ride bicycles, just because they could be riding motorcycles?
Because that's the analogy; not that new things aren't good or even great, but the idea that whoever sticks with the old is misguided somehow.
Going from WoW to a newer video game is nothing like trading in an old bike. It's more like going from a bike that is one color to a different colored bike. Every MMO since WoW has been so influenced by WoW.
I was actually expecting something like the following picture's in this topic:
Old School MMORPG's
Most of today's MMO's
Not bad, but the old school MMO/bicycle picture should show a group of people together while the on rails version should have only one rider alone by him/herself.
Fixed
Still feel picture 2 is very accurate and no matter if it's solo or grouped they all follow the same rails
I agree with the second picture.
The first picture however should be slighly different. It should show the same amount of ppl, but then all together pushing one old bicycle. They have to stick together because on their own they can't survive.
Well, because is good for health maybe? I drive my Colnago every day for few hours :==). Do i hear Far Cray 3? Something like ''Help! Help my new Bicycle''
Your analogy is flawed. While the basic design of the bicyle can be seen as perfected since half a century ago, the same cannot be said for mmorpgs. If you want to use a bicycle analogy you should compare WoW (and other modern mmos) to the bicycles made in the first 20 years of inventing the bicycle concept. IE:
and
Saying that WoW, which was made less than 10 years from the creation of the genre, somehow represents the ultimate possible perfection of it is simply ridiculous.
Whilst the OP's conclusion may be valid, there's indeed absolutely nothing wrong with older games like WoW. His reasoning is simply false, just because something old works does not mean that any attempts at improvement or innovation are futile.
So you feel it makes sense to knock people who ride bicycles, just because they could be riding motorcycles?
Because that's the analogy; not that new things aren't good or even great, but the idea that whoever sticks with the old is misguided somehow.
Whoever sticks with the old merely because it's old, as your analogy indicates, is indeed misguided.
Age is utterly irrelevant and mentioning age as either a pro (as you seem to do) or a con (as those you accuse are doing) just shows a lack of understanding.
Some of the newer MMOs aren't bad because they're new. They're bad because of horrible gameplay, bugs, lack of content etc.
Some of the older MMOs aren't good because they're old. They're good because of great gameplay, stability, plentiful content etc.
If you want to ride a bicycle then go ride a freaking bicycle. Don't start preaching on how old it is and how it's worked for ages and how new things don't match up to it's design.
If you want to play WoW then go play freaking WoW. Don't start preaching on how old it is and how it's worked for ages and how new things don't match up to it's design.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
Your analogy is flawed. While the basic design of the bicyle can be seen as perfected since half a century ago, the same cannot be said for mmorpgs. If you want to use a bicycle analogy you should compare WoW (and other modern mmos) to the bicycles made in the first 20 years of inventing the bicycle concept. IE:
Saying that WoW, which was made less than 10 years from the creation of the genre, somehow represents the ultimate possible perfection of it is simply ridiculous.
You assume too much about bicycles, that's mistake #1.
The other, you seem to be forgetting WoW isn't the same as it was 8 years ago. The underlying mechanics of it are - it didn't blast off on a tangent towards something else, but it has evolved (same as the bicycle).
You all seem to have undestood the analogy, but chose to nitpick for some reason (which is fine, that's the beauty and part of the purpose of forums).
The old quothe "Interesting, but stupid" comes to mind here.
Nothing is perfected from the beginning, and comparing vehicles and computer games makes little sense as well.
Meridian 59 was the first MMO and yet it had most of modern MMO features already. It had trinity combat, ratkilling quests, levels and levelbased gears, classes that seems familiar and so on.
Yeah, EQ added raids and Wow added good programming and faster leveling but the basic games is still the same.
A better example is why some people still watch Mr Ed on TV, because MMOs are mostly reruns and OP seems to love that.
Whoever sticks with the old merely because it's old, as your analogy indicates, is indeed misguided.
Age is utterly irrelevant and mentioning age as either a pro (as you seem to do) or a con (as those you accuse are doing) just shows a lack of understanding.
Never, ever claimed age is a pro (bar unrelated stuff like wine/whiskey), in fact, my point is exactly the same as the one you're making.
The old quothe "Interesting, but stupid" comes to mind here.
Nothing is perfected from the beginning, and comparing vehicles and computer games makes little sense as well.¨
But it also isn't automatically made better with each new iteration.
That's all there is to my post.
I know a forum dweller has an innate urge to rise above opinions of others in an attempt to assert some type of superiority (don't mean to offend, it's just the blunt truth), but there's no need to make stuff up (that I didn't state) in the process.
Maybe I should've gone with music and Justin Bieber, at least I *HOPE* everyone here would be in agreement then.
Whoever sticks with the old merely because it's old, as your analogy indicates, is indeed misguided.
Age is utterly irrelevant and mentioning age as either a pro (as you seem to do) or a con (as those you accuse are doing) just shows a lack of understanding.
Never, ever claimed age is a pro (bar unrelated stuff like wine/whiskey), in fact, my point is exactly the same as the one you're making.
So thank you for agreeing.
You should make a better analogy in that case, because it does not make the point I'm making.
By claiming the cycling experience has remained exactly the same for ages and thus saying that all improvements made to bicycles are meaningless you're making exactly the opposite of my point.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
Originally posted by Magiknight Going from WoW to a newer video game is nothing like trading in an old bike. It's more like going from a bike that is one color to a different colored bike. Every MMO since WoW has been so influenced by WoW.
Agree, but i see this only as good thing. When you sit into your car with minor changes in every car nearly everthing is at same place. Just immagine if every car maker with every car would like to be "innovative" or "original". Would be total mess.
Wow interface - imo - is one of the best so far. So have no problem if somebody adopt a lot from them.
Ok, there have been one game that was not at all influenced by wow. FF 14. :-))
You should make a better analogy in that case, because it does not make the point I'm making.
By claiming the cycling experience has remained exactly the same for ages and thus saying that all improvements made to bicycles are meaningless you're making exactly the opposite of my point.
See - again - I never said that.
I'm riding a new, better bike - but still a bike (new, better WoW - but still WoW).
I can understand how that distinction is hard to make, as opposed to the new and better bike being some other MMO - so I'm sorry if that confused anyone.
Even when going with your understanding of my post, the correct upgrade of a bike would be pedaling with your hands or whatever, something NEW and FRESH and INNOVATIVE. A revolution, as some would call it?
Maybe a better way of saying it: just because something is new and different doesn't make it better.
It's like fashion - it may be new, but it can still be ugly as hell and nobody will ever wear it. Well shit, maybe I did choose the worst possible analogy
EDIT: I like the car analogy in the post above; change for the sake of change is pointless.
You should make a better analogy in that case, because it does not make the point I'm making.
By claiming the cycling experience has remained exactly the same for ages and thus saying that all improvements made to bicycles are meaningless you're making exactly the opposite of my point.
See - again - I never said that.
Originally posted by nsignific
Why do you still ride your bike? They haven't upgraded the experience in ages, it's still the same old tired formula of two pedals and handlebars.
There...
Your exact words. "They haven't upgraded the experience in ages."
Directly implying that gears, lightweight frames, comfy saddles etc. haven't impacted the experience.
They have upgraded the experience. Significantly. It's only the same old tired formula of two pedals and handlebars to someone who's never ridden a bike nor has any understanding whatsoever of them.
Again, your conclusion that something being either old or new has no direct relation to it's quality is indeed correct. Your anology to show that point however is simply utter nonsense.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
Comments
I can't help but feel sorry that your existance is so shallow that you're incapable of finding joy in owning and holding a chess set made to resemble your favorite fantasy or sci-fi IP.
That you're incapable of finding pleasure in riding on a finely tuned mountain-bike with enough gears and suspension to enable you to ride smoothly and speedily over varied terrain.
Every little aspect of an experience matters. Not much, but it still matters. If extra 'bells and whistles' enhance my experience and enjoyement thereof then I'd be a fool to dismiss them.
Doing things the way they've always been done and dismissing any and all additions as useless and frivolous regardless of their effect on your experience is sheer idiocy.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
I was actually expecting something like the following picture's in this topic:
Old School MMORPG's
Most of today's MMO's
Not bad, but the old school MMO/bicycle picture should show a group of people together while the on rails version should have only one rider alone by him/herself.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Fail analogy bud.
For one 'bicycles' aren't a formula. They're a machine, an invention, a tool. They're no more a formula than videogames (as a medium) are a formula. A better analogy would be to compare WoW w/ playing CoD games, or sports games, etc. Basically anything that interates w/ out really changing the base formula. Bicycles have evolved over time, just as the reasons for people to buy them. You need transportation. You don't need WoW.
That said, I get why people still play WoW. It's familiar, it's comfortable, and it has enough new shinies to make people think they are getting something new now & again. It's the same deal w/ movies. We've essentially been watching the same films over and over again for the passed decade. As depressing as that is to think about, most people are actually okay with that, even if they don't like to admit it.
WoW is that way for the MMO genre. It's the penultimate 'appeal to the masses' videogame. It's fine if you still enjoy it (as many others do), but it shouldn't be surprising that many people are tired of it.
To go back to the horrible bike analogy. I can still take my bike out and have new experiences, go new places. I don't really get that same satisfaction from WoW.
Fixed
Still feel picture 2 is very accurate and no matter if it's solo or grouped they all follow the same rails
Could not agree more with you. Such never happy people with anything are actually destroying games.
Obviously the analogy only works if you use the bike for fun / recreation, as you would videogames. Not as a life neccessity (adiction?).
That's kind of my point. You don't discard something *just* because it's old, and there are technically superior products available.
Also, everyone pointing out advances in bicycle technology - the analogy sort of derails if you remove the assumption that bike = wow, which had technical updates and advances as well (expansions, engine upgrades, etc). It's still a bike, and not a car or a motorcycle, etc.
So you feel it makes sense to knock people who ride bicycles, just because they could be riding motorcycles?
Because that's the analogy; not that new things aren't good or even great, but the idea that whoever sticks with the old is misguided somehow.
I agree with the second picture.
The first picture however should be slighly different. It should show the same amount of ppl, but then all together pushing one old bicycle. They have to stick together because on their own they can't survive.
Your analogy is flawed. While the basic design of the bicyle can be seen as perfected since half a century ago, the same cannot be said for mmorpgs. If you want to use a bicycle analogy you should compare WoW (and other modern mmos) to the bicycles made in the first 20 years of inventing the bicycle concept. IE:
and
Saying that WoW, which was made less than 10 years from the creation of the genre, somehow represents the ultimate possible perfection of it is simply ridiculous.
Because of where I live, riding a bike and getting from A to B is actually faster than taking a car, or a bus, or a train for that matter.
Besides - it makes me all sweaty on arrival
Whoever sticks with the old merely because it's old, as your analogy indicates, is indeed misguided.
Age is utterly irrelevant and mentioning age as either a pro (as you seem to do) or a con (as those you accuse are doing) just shows a lack of understanding.
Some of the newer MMOs aren't bad because they're new. They're bad because of horrible gameplay, bugs, lack of content etc.
Some of the older MMOs aren't good because they're old. They're good because of great gameplay, stability, plentiful content etc.
If you want to ride a bicycle then go ride a freaking bicycle. Don't start preaching on how old it is and how it's worked for ages and how new things don't match up to it's design.
If you want to play WoW then go play freaking WoW. Don't start preaching on how old it is and how it's worked for ages and how new things don't match up to it's design.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
You assume too much about bicycles, that's mistake #1.
The other, you seem to be forgetting WoW isn't the same as it was 8 years ago. The underlying mechanics of it are - it didn't blast off on a tangent towards something else, but it has evolved (same as the bicycle).
You all seem to have undestood the analogy, but chose to nitpick for some reason (which is fine, that's the beauty and part of the purpose of forums).
The old quothe "Interesting, but stupid" comes to mind here.
Nothing is perfected from the beginning, and comparing vehicles and computer games makes little sense as well.
Meridian 59 was the first MMO and yet it had most of modern MMO features already. It had trinity combat, ratkilling quests, levels and levelbased gears, classes that seems familiar and so on.
Yeah, EQ added raids and Wow added good programming and faster leveling but the basic games is still the same.
A better example is why some people still watch Mr Ed on TV, because MMOs are mostly reruns and OP seems to love that.
A horse is a horse....
Never, ever claimed age is a pro (bar unrelated stuff like wine/whiskey), in fact, my point is exactly the same as the one you're making.
So thank you for agreeing.
But it also isn't automatically made better with each new iteration.
That's all there is to my post.
I know a forum dweller has an innate urge to rise above opinions of others in an attempt to assert some type of superiority (don't mean to offend, it's just the blunt truth), but there's no need to make stuff up (that I didn't state) in the process.
Maybe I should've gone with music and Justin Bieber, at least I *HOPE* everyone here would be in agreement then.
You should make a better analogy in that case, because it does not make the point I'm making.
By claiming the cycling experience has remained exactly the same for ages and thus saying that all improvements made to bicycles are meaningless you're making exactly the opposite of my point.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
Agree, but i see this only as good thing. When you sit into your car with minor changes in every car nearly everthing is at same place. Just immagine if every car maker with every car would like to be "innovative" or "original". Would be total mess.
Wow interface - imo - is one of the best so far. So have no problem if somebody adopt a lot from them.
Ok, there have been one game that was not at all influenced by wow. FF 14. :-))
See - again - I never said that.
I'm riding a new, better bike - but still a bike (new, better WoW - but still WoW).
I can understand how that distinction is hard to make, as opposed to the new and better bike being some other MMO - so I'm sorry if that confused anyone.
Even when going with your understanding of my post, the correct upgrade of a bike would be pedaling with your hands or whatever, something NEW and FRESH and INNOVATIVE. A revolution, as some would call it?
Maybe a better way of saying it: just because something is new and different doesn't make it better.
It's like fashion - it may be new, but it can still be ugly as hell and nobody will ever wear it. Well shit, maybe I did choose the worst possible analogy
EDIT: I like the car analogy in the post above; change for the sake of change is pointless.
There...
Your exact words. "They haven't upgraded the experience in ages."
Directly implying that gears, lightweight frames, comfy saddles etc. haven't impacted the experience.
They have upgraded the experience. Significantly. It's only the same old tired formula of two pedals and handlebars to someone who's never ridden a bike nor has any understanding whatsoever of them.
Again, your conclusion that something being either old or new has no direct relation to it's quality is indeed correct. Your anology to show that point however is simply utter nonsense.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")