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This is why TERA combat is better than GW2

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  • Goll25Goll25 Member UncommonPosts: 187
    Shame the rest of the game is putrid.
  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG Member UncommonPosts: 1,387
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by darwa

    Anyone else think that by being able to do this by yourself actually makes TERA combat the inferior option?

    After all, TERA and GW2 are meant to be MMOs, right?

    So what you are saying is that just because it is an MMO then really skilled player should not be able to do amazing things? Bear in mind that no average player can do what this guy is doing, it requires alot of skills to time your attacks and evades to be able to do what he is doing.

    "Really skilled player" plays hardcore simulation games like ARMA and War of the Roses... then you realise how simplistic your definition of "really skilled player" is. 

  • VolkonVolkon Member UncommonPosts: 3,748

    Tera style combat wouldn't work in GW2. It's as simple as that. Some of the skills in GW2 require a target, and I'll use my beloved mesmer as an example.

    Greatsword 1 - Ranged beam style attack. Pretty obvious why you need a target.

    GS2 - Basically throws a phantasmal sword at the target. A target is needed here due in large part due to the bounce - after the sword hits your target it bounces and hits an ally, giving them a might boon. It then returns to the target for additional damage.

    GS4 is a phantasm. All clones and phantasms require a specific target, and if that target is killed the clones and phantasms pop. One reason they need a target is so they know who to shatter on.

     

    That's just a few examples there, but without a target you completely screw up the mesmer profession. Completely. So many skills would have to be removed or changed into something non-recognizable.

     

    On a final and completely irrelevant note, a mesmer and that Tera warrior step into an arena, each using the combat styles of their games. Who walks out alive?  I'll put money on the mesmer.

    Oderint, dum metuant.

  • sumdumguy1sumdumguy1 Member RarePosts: 1,373
    Originally posted by xmenty

    What this site need to do is make get a few top rated professional competitive gamers and asked them to play a few MMO games.

    Then asked them to rate which MMO has the best gameplay and their reasons for it.

    Let the users decide which MMO should be test.

    Make a Discovery channel video out of it.

    This will STFU all the Trolls,

    Having a select few decide for the many dffferent type of gamers out there could create more issues than we have now.  In all honesty people simply play the game they prefer and have different reasons for doing so.  I have several friends who played Tera and GW2 and even among us this debate goes in different directions. Some say one is better than the other, some say they are simply different, while others say they prefer another style altogether different.   Even with our small group of 12, we can't decide but the one thing we all agree on is that no one represents our gaming interests better than ourselves. 

  • korent1991korent1991 Member UncommonPosts: 1,364
    Originally posted by Yamota

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLyCesCR2I0&feature=g-vrec

    What that guy is doing would be the equivalent of a melee in GW 2, killing a lvl 80 champion mob by himself. It cannot be done because GW 2 has hybrid skill based and most of the combat is by dice rolls. However in TERA, if you are good enough, you can pretty much beat anything with a Warrior class.

    And for you people who think locking you in place is bad, that is intentional. It makes the combat more skill-based as you have to time your attacks.

    So to be clear here, I do think GW 2 is a superior overall game to TERA but I really miss the combat in the latter one. It is far more based on your skills than anything else.

    so, allowing you to kill a champion boss without even loosing 50% of your HP is called skill?

    I see a guy bashing skills like mad and trying to get behind a mob. It requires such a huge amount of skill. xD

    Try killing an elite mob with just avoiding his attack by going behind him and bashing your skills xD

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  • Eir_SEir_S Member UncommonPosts: 4,440
    Originally posted by korent1991
    Originally posted by Yamota

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLyCesCR2I0&feature=g-vrec

    What that guy is doing would be the equivalent of a melee in GW 2, killing a lvl 80 champion mob by himself. It cannot be done because GW 2 has hybrid skill based and most of the combat is by dice rolls. However in TERA, if you are good enough, you can pretty much beat anything with a Warrior class.

    And for you people who think locking you in place is bad, that is intentional. It makes the combat more skill-based as you have to time your attacks.

    So to be clear here, I do think GW 2 is a superior overall game to TERA but I really miss the combat in the latter one. It is far more based on your skills than anything else.

    so, allowing you to kill a champion boss without even loosing 50% of your HP is called skill?

    I see a guy bashing skills like mad and trying to get behind a mob. It requires such a huge amount of skill. xD

    Try killing an elite mob with just avoiding his attack by going behind him and bashing your skills xD

    In most MMOs, you could never do that because they're not dumb and slow like they apparently are in Tera.  You could go get a coffee by the time they're done with an attack.

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan Member RarePosts: 3,455
    Originally posted by Eir_S

    In most MMOs, you could never do that because they're not dumb and slow like they apparently are in Tera.  You could go get a coffee by the time they're done with an attack.

    Pretty much what bored me with Tera's supposed "superior" combat too. Mobs are slow as hell, and you are rooted in place. No surprise some think they are "skilled" playing Tera... you spend your time waiting for the mob, an anorexic turtle would feel skilled in that game.

    Hell, I got 7 free days in WoW so I tried my chars with the new talents and stuff... even combat in WoW seems slow now after playing GW2, and I still think WoW's combat is one of the best and most responsive of the industry. Well, it's second best now, GW2 took the lead. My Death Knight is still fun, but my GW2 warrior beats him without breaking a sweat, and requires way more attention and "skill" to play.

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  • Eir_SEir_S Member UncommonPosts: 4,440

    Yeah I always loved WoW's combat, it's very smooth and responsive, but it's hard to think about playing it now.  I was happy when games with turn-based combat mostly died off and we got this  hybrid hot-bar style.  Then the next generation came with GW2 and Tera, even AoC to an extent, but where Tera could have surpassed them all easily, they rooted you in place instead... I just think GW2 did action combat better because of that.  Mobility is more interesting to me than the ability to aim.

  • slicknslim88slicknslim88 Member Posts: 394
    Originally posted by Eir_S
    Originally posted by korent1991
    Originally posted by Yamota

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLyCesCR2I0&feature=g-vrec

    What that guy is doing would be the equivalent of a melee in GW 2, killing a lvl 80 champion mob by himself. It cannot be done because GW 2 has hybrid skill based and most of the combat is by dice rolls. However in TERA, if you are good enough, you can pretty much beat anything with a Warrior class.

    And for you people who think locking you in place is bad, that is intentional. It makes the combat more skill-based as you have to time your attacks.

    So to be clear here, I do think GW 2 is a superior overall game to TERA but I really miss the combat in the latter one. It is far more based on your skills than anything else.

    so, allowing you to kill a champion boss without even loosing 50% of your HP is called skill?

    I see a guy bashing skills like mad and trying to get behind a mob. It requires such a huge amount of skill. xD

    Try killing an elite mob with just avoiding his attack by going behind him and bashing your skills xD

    In most MMOs, you could never do that because they're not dumb and slow like they apparently are in Tera.  You could go get a coffee by the time they're done with an attack.

    That's right, as long as you have the reflexes of a sloth, Tera is a nail biter of an action game.

  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337
    Originally posted by slicknslim88
    ...

    That's right, as long as you have the reflexes of a sloth, Tera is a nail biter of an action game.

    It may seem slow to you, but there were numerous people that found hard the Tera combat when it first came out.

    Besides, one can find numerous faults with GW2, quite a few related to the very buggy state of GW2 (I can't remember an mmorpg with so many bugs and exploitable issues at launch since the days of AoC launch).

    Problems not related with bugs:

    • Invulnerability button cheapens combat
    • Too many flashy effect, particles overload
    • Bad UI, can't move stuff in a place where I can see them
    Bug related issues:
    • Culling makes things perma invisible on the receiving side
    • Insane amount of hacks (widespread too) (teleportation hacks, perma invisibility, perma max run speed, flying, underworld running and others)
     
    The bug related issues will be resolved, given time. Unfortunately however, the invulnerability button is here to stay.
  • itgrowlsitgrowls Member Posts: 2,951

    "A slow moving mob that you can easily stab in? the *** to death. How exciting." posted by DukeVonCheesus

    Definitely true, when fighting champions and elites in GW2 usually even mobs that are slow have AOE's or something challenging making them not a target dummy. Ever try to solo melee the Giant in Diessa Plateau? yeah.

    "played TERA for 4 months... just because i was inbetween games.. its pretty much? a typical asian game with fairly interesting combat. everything else is ****. read pretty much any review of the game and they got it mostly right... decent combat covered in a **** game. take my advice. i played for 4 months so that you dont have to. let me spare you the agony and absurdity of experiencing this game" Wrath Von Borges

    both comments on this very same video that i tend to agree with accept the notion that the OP has that it's better in TERA. The combat is close to GW2 but not quite, i like having a standard set of abilities. Having twenty-thirty buttons for abilities is not something i want to return to. I have pleanty of options with the weapons combos and traits GW2 has already.

    Also, classes in GW2 have the option for position damage increase thru crits, it's really not that difficult to get a class going that does a great deal of damage, even in classically support roles. Dunno how many enemies I've killed from stealth on my thief by backstabbing in GW2 or how many groups of mobs I've attracted to my thumper turret only to bomb them from behind. wink.

    The last thing that gets me is this. They are STILL using manapools. not very forward thinking imo sorry. Not superior when you still have to drink pots.

  • MetzaMetza Member Posts: 160
    Originally posted by taus01

    I agree, best mmo combat system. Just feels right and is fluid and interesting. The biggest point however is: You can get better at combat! 

    GW2 combat feel clinky and restricted, there is no room to grow and get better at combat. You are limited by the skills and the design of the game.

    The action based combat in TERA gives you so the room to improve.

    So what your saying is that your so good at gw2 that the combat itself is actually holding your skill back? Dude if you dont like the combat in the game just say so, otherwise post a vid of you playing perfectly but being held back by the game, most rediculous statement I have seen for a while.

    I like the combat from both games personally they both feel very different and enjoyable to me.

    image

  • timeraidertimeraider Member UncommonPosts: 865
    Originally posted by Xasapis
    Originally posted by slicknslim88
    ...

    That's right, as long as you have the reflexes of a sloth, Tera is a nail biter of an action game.

    It may seem slow to you, but there were numerous people that found hard the Tera combat when it first came out.

    Besides, one can find numerous faults with GW2, quite a few related to the very buggy state of GW2 (I can't remember an mmorpg with so many bugs and exploitable issues at launch since the days of AoC launch).

    Problems not related with bugs:

    • Invulnerability button cheapens combat......   Sure, thats why everyone complains about to much burst... because of the invulnerability buttons.... it all makes sense now.. gw2 is a game where the burst can be immense, we need those buttons implemented in our tactics. And dont say that doesnt require tactics, because you will need to time it perfect, use it in the right way and look ahead (which noone does, thus mostly wasting important cooldowns)
    • Too many flashy effect, particles overload .... i like flashy stuff :D they will be adding a option to reduce it though
    • Bad UI, can't move stuff in a place where I can see them ... your fault for using 10% of the screen..
    Bug related issues:
    • Culling makes things perma invisible on the receiving side ... not everyone has that.. i for example never had that happening..
    • Insane amount of hacks (widespread too) (teleportation hacks, perma invisibility, perma max run speed, flying, underworld running and others) ... bots, yes... hackers, havent seen any yet.
     
    The bug related issues will be resolved, given time. Unfortunately however, the invulnerability button is here to stay.

    Yes, i am highly disappointed of the amount of bugs in GW2... even though WoW had worse at start, its freaking 2012... bugs should have been removed in the beta's..

    Dont agree with everything though..

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  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337
    • Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the invulnerability "dodge" button is irrelevant or useless. On the contrary, the game was design around being able to use it as much as possible. However, the game was made "unfair" and certain encounters would be considered broken in an mmorpg without readily available invulnerability buttons.
    • The problem with the insane amount of particle effects is that they make combat, especially melee, unplayable. You just sit there and spam buttons while accepting what the boss is throwing at your way, because you can't see what the boss is doing in the first place. Stand next to a door in a WvW keep and tell me that you can see what is happening around you.
    • I don't understand that comment. I use 100% of my 26" monitor. The problem with the UI is that is not modable at all. There are certain effects that I would like to be able to see, preferably somewhere in the middle of my screen. This is not the first mmorpg that has limited to no UI, of course, but that doesn't make it less of a problem. Not to mention that the game needs a squad raid interface, badly.

    As for the bugs comments ...

    • Culling is a big issue, all you have to do is look at the official forums about it. Basically the game due to lag (or whatever else technical issue) doesn't draw back the player when he pops in and out of invisibility. Sometimes the game reports a player in the wrong spot (desync issues). Generally speaking, the game has loads of issues with handling invisibility and thus the complaints about the two classes with extended use of it, mesmer and thief.
    • As for hackers, just because you haven't seen them, doesn't mean that they are not there. The problem is quite widespread in WvW atm, with plenty of videos to highlight the issues. The funny bit is that you can't really report the offenders, since their names are hidden in WvW.

     

    I'm going to repeat what I said earlier in the same thread, I believe. Neither game has a "better" combat system. It's like watching two people arguing about which RTS system is better, turn based or real time. They both wrong and right at the same time. The point is, if the combat system works for the game it was intended for, then the actuall mechanics don't matter that much. Both games described in this thread have combat systems that work for them.

    Only thing worth discussion is whether Tera's system would work in GW2 and vice versa. In my opinion, no. GW2 system was designed to be intentionally unfair. That's why you're given two invunerabilities and a safety net in the form of downed state. The game is designed to screw you, even if your execution is perfect and is just giving you tools to recover from the inevitable 1-shots.

    Tera's system is more traditional, in the sense that the game is fair towards you. Unless you mess the execution, you are on the clear, if you do however, you're punished heavily.

  • CharlizdCharlizd Member UncommonPosts: 923
    Not to rat on Tera but i hardly see that fight as skill, to me i doubt you even need to be an accomplished Tank to do it, all it was was hit, hit, hit, roll to the side, hit, hit, hit, roll to the side, nothing epic about it, again not ratting on Tera or saying GW is better as i could personally care less, just don't see that as a skilled player at all, just someone who rolls out of the way at the most obvious time and rinse and repeat.
    Andrew "Charlizd" Phippen | Lead World Builder | The Saga of Lucimia MMORPG
  • MacecardMacecard Member UncommonPosts: 142
    Originally posted by darwa

    Anyone else think that by being able to do this by yourself actually makes TERA combat the inferior option?

    After all, TERA and GW2 are meant to be MMOs, right?

    This...

    I dont think many people will agree with you (too eager to jump on the GW2 or Tera bandwagon and bash the other game) but you right. There have been posts about people annoyed that in GW2 5 people can take down a dragon, now maybe a dragon is a lot bigger than a champion mob but its the same idea, these are mmos and to do difficult stuff in an MM (MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER) O you need to group up.

    Almost every post about a game on here can be turned around to show a negative instead of the positive the OP thought he saw. Its all a matter of how blind fanboi you are.

    If you continue to make sweeping statements like you know what everyone everywhere thinks about a certain topic then I am going to shout at you.
    It easy to type 'I think this is the worst game ever'
    Rather than the 'This is the worst game ever'

  • YamotaYamota Member UncommonPosts: 6,593
    Originally posted by charlizd
    Not to rat on Tera but i hardly see that fight as skill, to me i doubt you even need to be an accomplished Tank to do it, all it was was hit, hit, hit, roll to the side, hit, hit, hit, roll to the side, nothing epic about it, again not ratting on Tera or saying GW is better as i could personally care less, just don't see that as a skilled player at all, just someone who rolls out of the way at the most obvious time and rinse and repeat.

    Have you done it? If not I dont think you can say that it does not take skill because that dragon hits HARD and has some nasty cone based tail sweeps as well. More over, as TERA's skills lock you in place, you have to time your skills right or you will get hit in the middle of your skill execution.

    In any case, the point is that in GW 2 it cannot be done, period. There is no amount of skill that allows for anyone to take down a champion mob and for me that is fundamentally poor design. Combat should always be first decided by the skill of you as a player and secondly decided by gear, character stats and so on. In TERA that is the case, in GW 2 it is not.

  • CharlizdCharlizd Member UncommonPosts: 923

    I have not done that particular fight but watching the Video was enough to show that all you need to do is roll out of it's way then you wont get hit hard like you said it hits, I dont really care if it is hard to do or not i was merely just saying I dont think it looked like a skilled fight just a fight where the player rolls out of the way at the most time, when the beast was going to strike, this hardly requires skill, just requires you pay attention and roll before it does it's god awefully slow attack.

    I really dont think 1 player should be able to take down any boss like mob in an mmo, and if it coming to this than what is the point of making the game an mmo, just make it 1 player and be done with it, Boss mobs are meant to require parties, Raids, Zergs or whatever other means there is possible, to ME this is poor design to make such a creature be manhandled by 1 person in an MMO, skill or not, it should not be feasable.

    Andrew "Charlizd" Phippen | Lead World Builder | The Saga of Lucimia MMORPG
  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337

    I don't know about that assessment of what should and should not be doable.

    As far as I remember, there have been people in mmorpgs trying to do stuff "impossible" to others. Typical examples would be one manning or less that max party/raid encounters, unbalanced group composition (ie only X class present etc.), naked battles. Or just doing silly stuff (like the level 1 Hogger raids of old).

  • wrightstufwrightstuf Member UncommonPosts: 659
    Tera?...wait, you mean people still play that?
  • IcewhiteIcewhite Member Posts: 6,403
    Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
    how does running circles around a mob constitute "skill"?

    Oh god, here we go with circle-strafing again...headdesk.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • YamotaYamota Member UncommonPosts: 6,593
    Originally posted by charlizd

    I have not done that particular fight but watching the Video was enough to show that all you need to do is roll out of it's way then you wont get hit hard like you said it hits, I dont really care if it is hard to do or not i was merely just saying I dont think it looked like a skilled fight just a fight where the player rolls out of the way at the most time, when the beast was going to strike, this hardly requires skill, just requires you pay attention and roll before it does it's god awefully slow attack.

    I really dont think 1 player should be able to take down any boss like mob in an mmo, and if it coming to this than what is the point of making the game an mmo, just make it 1 player and be done with it, Boss mobs are meant to require parties, Raids, Zergs or whatever other means there is possible, to ME this is poor design to make such a creature be manhandled by 1 person in an MMO, skill or not, it should not be feasable.

    You are missing the point which I think is based on, what I believe, the false assumption that just because it looks easy then it is easy. The point is that not everyone should be able to take down a boss mob but if you are really good then you should. That is the difference between a game based on the skill of you as a player and that of the stats of your character.

    Now assuming it is NOT easy in TERA to take down boss mobs solo, in my experience it certainly is not, then maybe my point is more clear because in other target based, gear/stats based MMOs it does not much matter what you do as a player because most of the output is decided by dice rolls rather than what you do as a player during the actual fight. In TERA it is not.

  • pedrostrikpedrostrik Member UncommonPosts: 396


    Originally posted by Fendel84M And people say GW2 needs the trinity. Whats the point of a healer in Tera? lol I also like how the dragon is incredibley slow and basically just attacks in the opposite direction of the player. Not quite so epic.   Dragon: I'm gonna bite you! Player: I'm moving Dragon: I dont care i'm still gonna try and bite you in that exact same spot you were in very sloowly- hey! how did you manage to elude my viscious slow bite of death? Player: I got skill
     
    +10
    Yeah that clip was not a valid to show nice combat system in TERA, that dragon its pure slow motion easy mob with mouth loads of HP, in GW2 Champion mobs really hurt they have all those nasty AoE or adds that invade the area and even moving doesn't help so much to avoid been killed, always need the dodge and defense skills to stay alive for some secs, games must have some easy , average , hard and very difficult mobs. If i can solo champions in GW2 i think i was already jumping out of the game.
  • pedrostrikpedrostrik Member UncommonPosts: 396

     


    Originally posted by Eir_S Yeah I always loved WoW's combat, it's very smooth and responsive, but it's hard to think about playing it now.  I was happy when games with turn-based combat mostly died off and we got this  hybrid hot-bar style.  Then the next generation came with GW2 and Tera, even AoC to an extent, but where Tera could have surpassed them all easily, they rooted you in place instead... I just think GW2 did action combat better because of that.  Mobility is more interesting to me than the ability to aim.
     

    That's it, this is the BIG difference between GW2 and rest of MMO's and after you get it you will be unable to play another games, they all seem slow

     

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Member UncommonPosts: 4,775
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by charlizd
    Not to rat on Tera but i hardly see that fight as skill, to me i doubt you even need to be an accomplished Tank to do it, all it was was hit, hit, hit, roll to the side, hit, hit, hit, roll to the side, nothing epic about it, again not ratting on Tera or saying GW is better as i could personally care less, just don't see that as a skilled player at all, just someone who rolls out of the way at the most obvious time and rinse and repeat.

    Have you done it? If not I dont think you can say that it does not take skill because that dragon hits HARD and has some nasty cone based tail sweeps as well. More over, as TERA's skills lock you in place, you have to time your skills right or you will get hit in the middle of your skill execution.

    In any case, the point is that in GW 2 it cannot be done, period. There is no amount of skill that allows for anyone to take down a champion mob and for me that is fundamentally poor design. Combat should always be first decided by the skill of you as a player and secondly decided by gear, character stats and so on. In TERA that is the case, in GW 2 it is not.

    I and others take down champion mobs solo constantly. And counter to what you believe it isn't all based on dice rolls. 

     

    Though I will admit it is harder to do so in GW2. The mobs move faster and hit fairly hard so it takes a bit more skill to do than soloing something like that BAM in TERA. 

     

    You are free to continue to believe what you wish, but ... there is a reason those of us here in the GW2 forums prefer GW2 lol. You may have been better recieved on the TERA forums. 

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ydc3NOsDmg0

    Not my video, just did a quick search of someone soloing a champion. I may fraps a fight later and post it but it's not high on my list of priorities lol. 

    In GW2 there is no dice roll lol, it is skill first. 

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