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FFXIV ARR, another WoW clone

MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member

According to an interview with Naoki Yoshida, the director and producer of FFXIV ARR, the new game will be a WoW clone.  When the original FFXIV was being released a couple years ago the director of that game said that they were using WoW as their model of success.  This is amazing.

 

BM: Final Fantasy XI just had its ten year anniversary and it got a new expansion coming up. You talked about educating the development team at what the standard is at a west MMOs, so with an eye of Final Fantasy XI that is hugely successful, what did they get right what Final Fantasy XIV wasn’t doing?

Yoshida: One of the reasons why Final Fantasy XI was so successful was that the whole development team went and played Everquest and they thought “Okay, we want to do exactly what they did with Final Fantasy XI!” You know there were times where you couldn’t contact any of them because of how much they played *laughs*, but because they did that they had a direction. One of the problems with Final Fantasy XIV was that there wasn’t that direction, they didn’t know what the standard was and they never played World of Warcraft, they didn’t know enough and because they didn’t know enough they couldn’t build something up to the standards of current MMOs. Plus when they started creating Final Fantasy XI there was Final Fantasy X that strongly influenced them.

With Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn we don’t want to create many new things, we first want to start of getting this global standard and then adding that Final Fantasy feel. We want to get the crystal tower in and the gold soucer to get that epic Final Fantasy feeling.

http://jpgames.de/2012/08/gamescom-2012-our-interview-with-naoki-yoshida/

 

Fuck this.....

 

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Comments

  • drivecdrivec tulsa, OKPosts: 93Member

    i like this wow has good game play why not take whats already been proven successful and bring it into ff world/lore.

    i dont understand the need for new things there really isnt much more that can be done if you dont like this type of game play then you probly want to play a completely different game style such as a rts fps or some other form of gameplay.

    i dont understand why ppl are so upset its not going to be wow. its just going to have the same controls and mechanics but it will be final fantasy

     

     

    what more do you want?

  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member

    Well, there is the small fact that the original FFXIV was epic fail and it used WoW as its "model of success" and now they are doing the same thing again......................  Is it possible they might fail again?

     

    There are already literally dozens of games that mimic WoW that I could play.  Lots of them have failed after just a year or so.  Something different would be nice for a change.  Something just as nice might be something more similar to pre WoW.  Do you know how many MMOs failed before WoW?  Like 0. 

     

    I've already stated what I want in many other posts on these forums.

  • Ambros123Ambros123 Neverneverland, TNPosts: 877Member
    Originally posted by Magiknight

    Well, there is the small fact that the original FFXIV was epic fail and it used WoW as its "model of success" and now they are doing the same thing again......................  Is it possible they might fail again?

     

    There are already literally dozens of games that mimic WoW that I could play.  Lots of them have failed after just a year or so.  Something different would be nice for a change.  Something just as nice might be something more similar to pre WoW.  Do you know how many MMOs failed before WoW?  Like 0. 

     

    I've already stated what I want in many other posts on these forums.

    Name the "failrures" that shut their server's down as technically those are failures.  If the game is still up and running then it's successful, which by far is the vast majority.  Granted not a raging success or the success they wanted but a success nonetheless.

    But I agree though, FF XIV should form up their own ideals and not copy WoW.

    And let's be honest, the failures of FF XIV while numerous did not fail because it borrowed from WoW's design.  The bug ridden, empty world, lack luster combat, and who knows what else caused it's failure not because of taken concepts from WoW.

  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    Originally posted by Ambros123
    Originally posted by Magiknight

    Well, there is the small fact that the original FFXIV was epic fail and it used WoW as its "model of success" and now they are doing the same thing again......................  Is it possible they might fail again?

     

    There are already literally dozens of games that mimic WoW that I could play.  Lots of them have failed after just a year or so.  Something different would be nice for a change.  Something just as nice might be something more similar to pre WoW.  Do you know how many MMOs failed before WoW?  Like 0. 

     

    I've already stated what I want in many other posts on these forums.

    Name the "failrures" that shut their server's down as technically those are failures.  If the game is still up and running then it's successful, which by far is the vast majority.  Granted not a raging success or the success they wanted but a success nonetheless.

    But I agree though, FF XIV should form up their own ideals and not copy WoW.

    And let's be honest, the failures of FF XIV while numerous did not fail because it borrowed from WoW's design.  The bug ridden, empty world, lack luster combat, and who knows what else caused it's failure not because of taken concepts from WoW.

    Failures created since WoW: The Chronicles of Spellborn, Tabula Rasa, Fantasy Earth: Zero, Dark and Light, The Matrix Online.

    Failures made before WoW: City of Heroes and Star Wars Galaxies, Everquest Online Adventures

    All of the games I listed have shut down their servers.  I'm sure there are more.  So many others have adopted free to play models, have been sold to other companies, or have a dwindling population.

    FFXIV might be a commercial success...................but what else would you call it a success in?  How many other games are commercial successes with absolutely nothing else to mention about them?

    FFXIV took numerous concepts from WoW.  The heart of FFXIV is a shadow of WoW.  To be specific, every class in FFXIV is a hybrid, similar to WoW.  A conjurer can heal and do damage.  A paladin can take hits and deal damage.  Everything is pretty much given to you in both games.  Traveling, experiences points, armor, skills, are all handed out.  There is no real in-game danger in either game.  When you die your armor is damaged and you have to spend a negligable amount of money fixing it.  Both games are extremely solo friendly.  Both have short ladders to the top and make the journey to the top trivial.  I could go on and on...........  I try and come up with differences and I can only come up with names.  Chocobo vs. horse, white mage vs priest, name of such and such monster with such and such monster............

    Edit: One difference I could think of is that in FFXIV you can't jump.

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon

    Magi.... Everyone keeps telling you that you should look up information on ARR and watch the videos and THEN come here and post things... yet you keep looking at tiny fractions of ARR and then freaking out...

     

    Listen.  ARR has full length over an hour video that you can watch and see the game in action... 

    Have you seen it?

    ARR has jumping btw...

     

    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE watch this video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_737hYbSCEs

    Then come back and tell us what you think.

    I'm really excited for 14... i'm currently playing 11, I've enjoyed 11 for a majority of its life span and can't wait for 14's relaunch.

    Yoshiada seems like he knows what hes doing.

    Edit:  Yes I bought 14's collectors edition.  No I havn't played it since a month after its launch, it WAS terrible. 

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Magiknight

    Failures made before WoW: City of Heroes and Star Wars Galaxies, Everquest Online Adventures

    Excuse me, did you call CoH a failure? ...

    and SWG?

    They lasted around 7 years each... What qualifies as a failure in your mind is certainly not a failure in most of our minds.... 7 years is not a failure sir.

  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by Magiknight

    Failures made before WoW: City of Heroes and Star Wars Galaxies, Everquest Online Adventures

    Excuse me, did you call CoH a failure? ...

    and SWG?

    They lasted around 7 years each... What qualifies as a failure in your mind is certainly not a failure in most of our minds.... 7 years is not a failure sir.

    He asked which games shut down their servers.

     

    I've watched all of the trailers and I'm watching the video you posted a link to now.

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Magiknight
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by Magiknight

    Failures made before WoW: City of Heroes and Star Wars Galaxies, Everquest Online Adventures

    Excuse me, did you call CoH a failure? ...

    and SWG?

    They lasted around 7 years each... What qualifies as a failure in your mind is certainly not a failure in most of our minds.... 7 years is not a failure sir.

    He asked which games shut down their servers.

     

    I've watched all of the trailers and I'm watching the video you posted a link to now.

    This just further proves you aren't looking hard enough.  The video I posted has been reposted numerous times, it was one of the top results when I searched FFXIV.

    It goes into great detail about what they've done to make FFXIV into ARR.  

     

  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by Magiknight
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by Magiknight

    Failures made before WoW: City of Heroes and Star Wars Galaxies, Everquest Online Adventures

    Excuse me, did you call CoH a failure? ...

    and SWG?

    They lasted around 7 years each... What qualifies as a failure in your mind is certainly not a failure in most of our minds.... 7 years is not a failure sir.

    He asked which games shut down their servers.

     

    I've watched all of the trailers and I'm watching the video you posted a link to now.

    This just further proves you aren't looking hard enough.  The video I posted has been reposted numerous times, it was one of the top results when I searched FFXIV.

    It goes into great detail about what they've done to make FFXIV into ARR.  

     

    Obviously..............

     

    Anyways, I don't understand Japanese so all I can do it watch the ingame play.  So far I know that you can drag and drop armor to equip it.

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Magiknight
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by Magiknight
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by Magiknight

    Failures made before WoW: City of Heroes and Star Wars Galaxies, Everquest Online Adventures

    Excuse me, did you call CoH a failure? ...

    and SWG?

    They lasted around 7 years each... What qualifies as a failure in your mind is certainly not a failure in most of our minds.... 7 years is not a failure sir.

    He asked which games shut down their servers.

     

    I've watched all of the trailers and I'm watching the video you posted a link to now.

    This just further proves you aren't looking hard enough.  The video I posted has been reposted numerous times, it was one of the top results when I searched FFXIV.

    It goes into great detail about what they've done to make FFXIV into ARR.  

     

    Obviously..............

     

    Anyways, I don't understand Japanese so all I can do it watch the ingame play.  So far I know that you can drag and drop armor to equip it.

     if you turn on Closed Captioning it has sub titles...

    This is true for most things on Youtube in other languages.

  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by Magiknight
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by Magiknight
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by Magiknight

    Failures made before WoW: City of Heroes and Star Wars Galaxies, Everquest Online Adventures

    Excuse me, did you call CoH a failure? ...

    and SWG?

    They lasted around 7 years each... What qualifies as a failure in your mind is certainly not a failure in most of our minds.... 7 years is not a failure sir.

    He asked which games shut down their servers.

     

    I've watched all of the trailers and I'm watching the video you posted a link to now.

    This just further proves you aren't looking hard enough.  The video I posted has been reposted numerous times, it was one of the top results when I searched FFXIV.

    It goes into great detail about what they've done to make FFXIV into ARR.  

     

    Obviously..............

     

    Anyways, I don't understand Japanese so all I can do it watch the ingame play.  So far I know that you can drag and drop armor to equip it.

     if you turn on Closed Captioning it has sub titles...

    This is true for most things on Youtube in other languages.

    Nice :)

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,437Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by Magiknight

    Failures made before WoW: City of Heroes and Star Wars Galaxies, Everquest Online Adventures

    Excuse me, did you call CoH a failure? ...

    and SWG?

    They lasted around 7 years each... What qualifies as a failure in your mind is certainly not a failure in most of our minds.... 7 years is not a failure sir.

    EverQuest online adventures lasted 9 years on only the PS2!! Now that is a huuuge success.

    image
  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member

    I watched the video of FFXIV ARR at Ultimately, no matter what developers say, you do not know if you will like a game until you play it.  This is unfortunate since I really don't want to support any more bad games.  Some things they mentioned sounds good, some things sound identical to WoW or just take things a step further past WoW, and other things sound like they just want to make things easy.

     

    They are doing a lot of things that I think I will enjoy.  I could not understand a single quest in FFXIV.  It seems like ARR is going to clear up the quest dialogue and make them more understandable.  For quests to progess there will be hard boss fights.  So rather than just taking you from location to location for a quest and rewarding you for it you might have to prepare for it a bit or bring along some people to help.  They are removing the recurring backgrounds, which is retarded.  The FFVII references, such as the golden saucer are going to make me nostalgic.  

     

    Then there are the things that I can not stand.  There is a maximum of 1000 players per server.  This is small and gives you an idea of how much group content will be limited.  They did not even talk about group gameplay in the video.  Maybe it's too dull for most people to listen to.  They were running around killing everything in sight.  I guess this is what the majority want but it is not something I have any interest in watching.  I can't figure out why they would show it unless that's pretty much what the game is.  They did mention that battles will be "extremely fast" and "continuous."  All limits are brushed aside in the name of hastiness.  I can only imagine how much fun parties will be (if there are parties) where you spam buttons against helpless enemies........I've never done that before..........right....  You heal to full health in seconds......  There is no way they would even dream of putting a death penalty in this game.  Anything to slow the player down is shunned, no matter how they play.  Quests will also be easier and there will be more.  You can EVEN level just by doing quests.  So somone who reaches the max level by only doing quests will be just as good as someone who reached max level by fighting monsters..........right....  How could we do without quest markers or lists of objectives??? 

     

    I have mixed feelings about the level sync.  Again, this is about destroying all limits, barriers, anything to slow the player down.  It's like you wont notice that the game sucks as long as you're constantly doing shit.  It's nice for some missions and quests (the way COP integrated it).  But do I really need to be able to party with anyone a higher level than me?  Oh yeah, the server population will be too small to support a community of players with similar levels. 

     

    I could go on and on.........

  • iatesandiatesand Portland, TNPosts: 42Member Uncommon

    Magiknight,

    Here maybe I can help clear up some of that… thickness you have in your head. 

    On WoW,  you must know that Warcraft is also a copy, clone, evolution, of the games that came before it. Like Everquest, DAoC or Asheron's Call or even UO. That playstyle has become the standard of MMO’s it is what players expect.

    Yoshida clearly said that the XI did well because they played EQ and remade the game in a Final Fantasy world.  And that XIV was built from the ground up WITHOUT the influence of the EQ, WoW, DAoC feel to them. Take that in a moment.. XIV 1.0 actually broke the mold and made a new game play style. Overwhelmingly players hated it. Just because you’re unique doesn’t mean you’re good.

    People like that feel, the standard, of how a game plays. We like a Standard. We like to be able to jump into a game a with little issues know the controls work. That is what Yoshida said they wanted to start with the MMO standard.  He never said we are building a Warcraft clone, he only said they were returning to the standard that most MMO’s have followed since they started.

    That being said, what sets a game apart is content. Sandbox vs. Themepark content. If you don’t know the difference in the two then catch up with us and we can continue.  But as far as anybody has said it is going to be a Themepark game for a Final Fantasy world. WoW doesn’t have a copy rite on “Themepark” it was there before them and will be there after they go away. But that what this is going to be… a themepark game.  Like it, hate it..  play it or not.

    People that are looking for a big sandpark game will have to wait for Everquest Next. People that want to play in the Final Fantasy world can so in January with what we hope is a well polished Final Fantasy themepark  game that offers enough content changes to set it apart from the pack. (you know like the class system, the crafting system, and so forth

    Now are you personally going to like it?  Who cares, the game will sink or swim without you. So give it a shot if you want, see what you think form your own opinion and stop saying stilly things that are not true because you have lower than average reading comprehension.  

  • OzivoisOzivois Phoenix, AZPosts: 598Member

    Fixing the game so it has the playstyle of WoW, i.e., "wow clone", is a great idea.  Thier plan to make their own kind of game didn't work, but that was a risk they should not ever have taken.

    mmorpg's are just like technology improvements; your product should start with a foundation of what already works and then build a more improved version of it. 

    It's funny they admitted they want to make a wow clone with the look and feel of Final Fantasy... that is what we all really wanted in the first place a couple of years ago.

    Hopefully developers are using the data out there about what kind of games hold subs and which ones don't so that they will make more successful games in the future. 

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    You know what?

    I'd love love love a game with the content and systems of WoW around the time of the Ulduar raid cycle in Wrath of the Lich King (before they downsized and simplified the stats and talents) with the graphics and FF flavor of FFXIV:ARR.

    You know I'd probably love that quite a lot.

    Great graphics, great story, great raiding, great dungeons...

    Throw in some great crafting, housing, no flying mounts - I'd play that game.

     

  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    Originally posted by iatesand

    Magiknight,

    Here maybe I can help clear up some of that… thickness you have in your head. 

    On WoW,  you must know that Warcraft is also a copy, clone, evolution, of the games that came before it. Like Everquest, DAoC or Asheron's Call or even UO. That playstyle has become the standard of MMO’s it is what players expect.

    Yoshida clearly said that the XI did well because they played EQ and remade the game in a Final Fantasy world.  And that XIV was built from the ground up WITHOUT the influence of the EQ, WoW, DAoC feel to them. Take that in a moment.. XIV 1.0 actually broke the mold and made a new game play style. Overwhelmingly players hated it. Just because you’re unique doesn’t mean you’re good.

    People like that feel, the standard, of how a game plays. We like a Standard. We like to be able to jump into a game a with little issues know the controls work. That is what Yoshida said they wanted to start with the MMO standard.  He never said we are building a Warcraft clone, he only said they were returning to the standard that most MMO’s have followed since they started.

    That being said, what sets a game apart is content. Sandbox vs. Themepark content. If you don’t know the difference in the two then catch up with us and we can continue.  But as far as anybody has said it is going to be a Themepark game for a Final Fantasy world. WoW doesn’t have a copy rite on “Themepark” it was there before them and will be there after they go away. But that what this is going to be… a themepark game.  Like it, hate it..  play it or not.

    People that are looking for a big sandpark game will have to wait for Everquest Next. People that want to play in the Final Fantasy world can so in January with what we hope is a well polished Final Fantasy themepark  game that offers enough content changes to set it apart from the pack. (you know like the class system, the crafting system, and so forth

    Now are you personally going to like it?  Who cares, the game will sink or swim without you. So give it a shot if you want, see what you think form your own opinion and stop saying stilly things that are not true because you have lower than average reading comprehension.  

    My GRE score for verbal reasoning was in the 70 percentile. I did not have much time to study for that test either. I never asked if anyone cared if I liked the game or not.  I was arguing my case and if you don't are about it then don't respond to it. The game will do well on launch, receive average reviews, and a few months later no one will play it or talk about it. Whether what I say is true or not is not as important as how I make my case.

    The whole idea that games "evolve" is nonsense. Just because one game came after the next one does not mean that it is in any way "better." Saying one game is "better" than another game says nothing about it. Yes, every game will borrow something from games that came before it. It will also add new things. To say a game is a copy of another game is also nonsense. No two games are exactly alike. Games were more heterogenous before WoW.  Now they are homogenous. When I say FFXIV ARR will be a WoW clone I'm talking about the core of the game. The pace, tempo, community, interaction, etc. When you say that this new playstle has become the norm I feel like I'm listening to an economist.

    Do you realize that the same person in charge of making FFXI made FFXIV 1.0? How can you say that they made FFXI with EQ influence and that FFXIV was enirely "original?" FFXIV was in no way unique. I've already listed what it had in common with WoW. A short ladder to the top, endgame emphasis, highly numbers of instances, solo friendly, the fact that it doesn't matter what race you choose, etc. How can you say FFXIV broke the mold? Where did it do this? The only thing difference is that a single character can have multiple jobs.

    Themepark games are fine.  I'm not sure where you were going with this. I prefer themepark games but I do not like to play themepark games since WoW.

  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    Originally posted by Ozivois

    Fixing the game so it has the playstyle of WoW, i.e., "wow clone", is a great idea.  Thier plan to make their own kind of game didn't work, but that was a risk they should not ever have taken.

    mmorpg's are just like technology improvements; your product should start with a foundation of what already works and then build a more improved version of it. 

    It's funny they admitted they want to make a wow clone with the look and feel of Final Fantasy... that is what we all really wanted in the first place a couple of years ago.

    Hopefully developers are using the data out there about what kind of games hold subs and which ones don't so that they will make more successful games in the future. 

    They said they were using WoW as their model of success for 1.0. You have to be kidding me. How can you say that they tried to make their own kind of game.  Where are you getting this?

  • drivendawndrivendawn montgomery, ALPosts: 1,251Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Magiknight
    Originally posted by Ozivois

    Fixing the game so it has the playstyle of WoW, i.e., "wow clone", is a great idea.  Thier plan to make their own kind of game didn't work, but that was a risk they should not ever have taken.

    mmorpg's are just like technology improvements; your product should start with a foundation of what already works and then build a more improved version of it. 

    It's funny they admitted they want to make a wow clone with the look and feel of Final Fantasy... that is what we all really wanted in the first place a couple of years ago.

    Hopefully developers are using the data out there about what kind of games hold subs and which ones don't so that they will make more successful games in the future. 

    They said they were using WoW as their model of success for 1.0. You have to be kidding me. How can you say that they tried to make their own kind of game.  Where are you getting this?

    If they were trying to make 1.0 like WOW in the begining, then they failed very  badly. LOL

  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    Originally posted by drivendawn
    Originally posted by Magiknight
    Originally posted by Ozivois

    Fixing the game so it has the playstyle of WoW, i.e., "wow clone", is a great idea.  Thier plan to make their own kind of game didn't work, but that was a risk they should not ever have taken.

    mmorpg's are just like technology improvements; your product should start with a foundation of what already works and then build a more improved version of it. 

    It's funny they admitted they want to make a wow clone with the look and feel of Final Fantasy... that is what we all really wanted in the first place a couple of years ago.

    Hopefully developers are using the data out there about what kind of games hold subs and which ones don't so that they will make more successful games in the future. 

    They said they were using WoW as their model of success for 1.0. You have to be kidding me. How can you say that they tried to make their own kind of game.  Where are you getting this?

    If they were trying to make 1.0 like WOW in the begining, then they failed very  badly. LOL

    Yes they did.

  • GoldenArrowGoldenArrow TurkuPosts: 1,187Member Uncommon

    If you played the first release it basically took you 6 hours to sort out the selling/buying of things.

    I don't mind if the gameplay approaches WoW. WoW is really relaxing to play in terms of UI/controlling your character.

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Posts: 1,538Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GoldenArrow

    If you played the first release it basically took you 6 hours to sort out the selling/buying of things.

    Well... I think you're exaggerating a bit there. It was slow, thanks to the horrid interface. But it never took me even 20 minutes to sell off everything I had, or buy something new. It was slow, but saying 6 hours is really, seriously, pushing it. It didn't take very long to figure it out, either.

    I don't mind if the gameplay approaches WoW. WoW is really relaxing to play in terms of UI/controlling your character.

    As for ARR being a WoW clone. As we learn more about the gameplay, that's beginning to be my fear as well. I've been getting the feeling as I read new interviews with Yoshida that they're basically using WoW as their touchstone for everything. Not just the UI and controls, but the overall game design (pacing, progression, heavy use of instancing, etc).

    That worries me, because, well... what has been the increasing complaint and request over the past several years? That MMOs are too much alike, sticking too much to the "WoW template" and that players want to see something new. A revolution in the genre, not just an evolution of it.

    Funny enough, it seems the one place this might be happening (and I emphasize might, considering the source) is SOE. Whether anything he's saying is worth a thing remains to be seen - he certainly doesn't have a reputation of keeping his word - but John Smedley, at least in terms of what he's saying for EQNext, seems to get it. He's said that while each MMO offers its own twist on the theme, all modern MMOs are basically the same. They play the same, they have the same kind of progressioni (kill mobs, get rewards; kill bigger mobs, get bigger rewards, wash and repeat). He includes SOE's own EQ1 and 2 in that category, so he's not just pointing at "every other game".

    He's put SOE's money where his mouth is, at least in so much as trashing 2 previous designs for EQNext and starting from scratch on the new, sandbox/emergent gameplay direction it's taking.

    He also very correctly points out that the current "standard" for MMO design centered entirely around pre-designed content is unsustainable. A developer spends 1+ years and a large sum of money to develop an expansion that players burn through in a month, become bored and either complain, or leave. His argument - one I can agree with, because it's actually been proven already in other games - is that in order to remain enjoyable, relevant and sustainable for the long haul (several years), they have to be built around systems that are on-going. He uses the term "emergent gameplay", which is something that's born out of such gameplay systems.

    This has been proven correct in MMOs like Lineage 2, where the game (prior to Goddess of Destruction, anyway), was primarily about PvP centered around clan warfare, castle sieges and territory control. It was never big on quest content. Sieges, territory control, clan wars and such, are all on-going, because it's something players can, and will, continuously compete for.  It's player-driven, and the players themselves are the content. There's no questlines necessary. There's no trackers or '!' and '?' required. There's no story dialog needed. The entire system takes care of itself. And it works. Now, PvP is just one example of this, not the only one. It's just the first one I thought of, and the easiest to describe.

    FFXI had/has some similar systems. Conquest is a semi-passive competitive system where players of each nation can fight to gain control/influence over a given zone or region for their home nation. Doing so gains them certain benefits and, if they control enough, and get  their home nation rank 1st in the rankings, they get additional benefits.  It's not a "forefront" system, but it is one that people would actively work toward influencing because the benefits of being in the lead did affect them. And this system played out on a weekly basis.  There was also Campaign Battles, which is a kind of "system" in FFXI - although due to some poor decisions SE has made in the past few years (-cough- Abyssea -cough-), it's become all but irrelevant...

    That actually brings me to another benefit emergent gameplay/systems have over static content.  Static content is "finished", out-leveled and becomes obsolete. Emergent Gameplay systems never do.

    So, my point in all that is that I think, if SOE and others who are trying to go that route now (and I applaud them for it - this genre needs a serious kick in the ass) do it well and pull it off, it's going to leave SE effectively stuck in an increasingly out-dated and undesirable approach to gameplay. I just get the feeling that they're hopping on the "WoW Standard" bandwagon near the end of its run.  Will the game "fail" because of it? Probably not, and they could remedy it by adding in more emergent systems to augment the static story-driven content. But the game's design is firmly centered around very "WoW era" design, pacing and mechanics, and that could come back to bite them in the ass in the next couple years.

    Just my opinion.

  • Cod_EyeCod_Eye jarrowPosts: 1,016Member
    I think people are misinterperating what SE are trying to get across.
  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon
    Final Fantasy MMO can stand on it's own legs, unlike any other generic MMO out there that feeds off of WoW. That's because the franchise already has a demographic existing outside the MMO space.

    All they have to do is cater to that demographic, and it won't matter whether the game is a WoW clone or not. Said demographic is only interested in an FF MMO at best.

    Though the demographic demands a lot from the company, features that they connect to the franchise. Impressive audiovisuals, engaging stories and familiar elements that only a Final Fantasy can have, like summons, jobs, moogles and chocobos. SE is making sure that their demographic can identify this game as a Final Fantasy, while making sure that it isn't bashed by others for being inferior to the other games in the genre.

    "Housing is standard in most mmo's."
    - yolteotl79

  • iatesandiatesand Portland, TNPosts: 42Member Uncommon
    Tagent 

    The problem with what you say is that in order for a sandbox MMO to function you need pvp. Player driven content = pvp. And let’s face it.. Lots of people hate pvp in their MMO. Players are just opposed to having their enjoyable night of questing ruined by being ganked over and over by some 2 -3 people. Some people like it, most people do not.

    The reason WoW or EQ did so well was because very large groups of players enjoyed challenging  PvE content, they liked working out a new mob strategies and  group/raid content. But that leads to bigger mobs and more stuff. It’s pretty much the back bone of Themepark games. And as long as you have a level based system then things levels will go up, mobs will get harder and repeat

    I’m not sure you can name a working sandbox game that isn’t based at its core with pvp. I have been playing EVE for years and even though they have dozens of “expansions” it’s more or less mass Player on Player content that drives the game. Look at Planeside and PS2 it is 100% player content. But you can’t sell a game to the masses based on PVP.

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