Actually this topic can easily be summed up into two words "player decay".
What is player decay? Player decay is a phrase I just made up to describe a phenomena with MMORPGS that have leveling. Say you make a new MMORPG with forced grouping that has players go from 1-50.
At launch, everyone will be level 1, and soon level 10 will be where most players are at. This means getting groups for level 10 contnet is extremely easy. However, in a year, when most are at 50 (let's assume an easy leveling game), finding those level 10 groups is going to be a lot more difficult, if not impossible, especially if you play on a low populated server (or if there is only one server, a low populated game), during off-hours.
That's all you really need to say on that topic.
This type of system forces people to play during prime time or with friends, unless the game is super popular, still, the problem of player decay exists.
To revisit this thread, it's like banging your head against a wall expecting another good solo MMORPG. Only one giant with an established history of making simple but good PC games is going to make a game that breaks the rules and they already have. Let the little kids move on. It's time to get back to traditional MMORPG design if we ever want to see a good game again.
I wish to shift the focus a bit and move away from 'game design' which is the stickied 'Solo vs group' thread.
From a RL point of view, humans generally don't talk to strangers with no reason. Despite the advancement in technology of 'contact me anywhere', rarely do we see humans just walk up to someone and talk to them.
If we do it is because we want something from the interaction; I talk to cafe lady who wants my money and I need my caffine shot.
Humans want to be in the presence of other people but not actually interact with all of them. I go to bars with my friends and hang out with my friends. I don't go to bars and talk to someone I don't know; unless its staff and my orange juice is 30 seconds late.
Exception is if I am there with a specific focus on 'talking to strangers' like 'Singles Bar / Speed dating' but even then, there is that desire to get something (companionship) out of it.
Forced grouping in MMOs? Fine. Cool. Have at it.
But looking at how most people (maybe its because I lived in large cities most of my life?) live, don't expect a massive amount of people.
I've made sweaping generalization which won't apply 100% (Yes that ONE poster who's like 'but I talk to EVERYONE! ^__^ ) but that's how I view why forced grouping won't be popular. Pretty sure a professional in social / behavioural science can poke holes in my theory though. :P
You did an excellent job in your examples of proving why developers of MMO's should code in forced interdependency between players to achieve certain game goals.
Since modern MMO's don't, players don't bother to socialize or interact except in the few places interdependency remains, which is dungeons and raids pretty much.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I am not even going to read because logically you are wrong.
Please tell me the individual who started their own hunter/gatherer society alone... got pregnant with themselves... I will answer nobody.
It is actually human nature to need each other. I don't know if you need to talk to your parents about sex... but that alone should be enough to explain that.
Also, I believe you may want to be evalutated if you believe people do not need others.
Ok read a portion of your post...
So why are you playing an MMORPG if you do not need to interact with other players? Just curious because right now I still believe you live in a fantasy world or really need to enter a mental facility.
How did you meet your friends? Were you not forced to go to school? Did you all just magically know each other with out ever being social?
I cannot think of one day I left my house and did not talk to a stranger. Hell.. right now I haven't even left my house and I am responding to a stranger...
It is actually human nature to need each other. I don't know if you need to talk to your parents about sex... but that alone should be enough to explain that.
Not all the time. Otherwise, solo gameplay won't be that popular. Surely i need my wife to have my two sons. But i hardly "need" her when i want to kill some stuff to have fun.
Actually this topic can easily be summed up into two words "player decay".
What is player decay? Player decay is a phrase I just made up to describe a phenomena with MMORPGS that have leveling. Say you make a new MMORPG with forced grouping that has players go from 1-50.
At launch, everyone will be level 1, and soon level 10 will be where most players are at. This means getting groups for level 10 contnet is extremely easy. However, in a year, when most are at 50 (let's assume an easy leveling game), finding those level 10 groups is going to be a lot more difficult, if not impossible, especially if you play on a low populated server (or if there is only one server, a low populated game), during off-hours.
That's all you really need to say on that topic.
This type of system forces people to play during prime time or with friends, unless the game is super popular, still, the problem of player decay exists.
Whether or not forced grouping has problems is independent of the issue that a good MMORPG can't be made without it.
Actually this topic can easily be summed up into two words "player decay".
What is player decay? Player decay is a phrase I just made up to describe a phenomena with MMORPGS that have leveling. Say you make a new MMORPG with forced grouping that has players go from 1-50.
At launch, everyone will be level 1, and soon level 10 will be where most players are at. This means getting groups for level 10 contnet is extremely easy. However, in a year, when most are at 50 (let's assume an easy leveling game), finding those level 10 groups is going to be a lot more difficult, if not impossible, especially if you play on a low populated server (or if there is only one server, a low populated game), during off-hours.
That's all you really need to say on that topic.
This type of system forces people to play during prime time or with friends, unless the game is super popular, still, the problem of player decay exists.
I agree, but only to an extent. Player decay is really the product of solo friendly games, where getting to the max level can happen in a short amount of time (also, when said max level is a ridiculously high number, like 90). Back when EQ was at its prime, 3 expansions in, with 300-500k players, there were always people, of all level ranges, grouping 24 hours a day. Most of the dungeons, even from the original release, were packed with 3+ full groups and some farmers annoying said groups.
If levelling takes a long time, and the level cap remains fairly low (alternate advancement can be included in lieu of physical levels, at that point), player decay can be thwarted indefinitely. This would keep a lot of content from becoming trivial and unused, and allows more people to group together. Sure, in EQ, you'd find people with 1000 aa's not wanting to group with a fresh level 60; but the important part is they still can group, and use the same content. 1000aa guy might want to do the more difficult stuff for better gear, but he still gets exp and money from weaker stuff, so there's still incentive.
I think forced grouping is the answer for a fun successful MMO. I also believe that WoW is more forced grouping than people let on; its clones, however, have not been. WoW and EQ2 created somewhat of a hybrid group/solo model, but both pretty much required grouping throughout the entire level range, if you wanted to complete the good quests and get the good rewards.
You don't go to bars to meet strangers...and you order orange juice while there?
I stopped reading there, it's a can of worms.
I know that part was just too much for me too.
I only go to bars to creepily stare at strangers and scurry away if they notice or try to interact with me and I only order bottled water... cuz I am just that cool.
Don't get me started if that bottled water takes too long to get to me. Thats when interaction 101 takes place.. the whole bar is going to know just how bad I want my damn water.
It's human behavior to want to choose when and where to be social and not have it crammed down your throat. Games should work much the same way.
Except in games if you want to simulate human interaction...
We're forced in our day to day lives to interact with people all the time. Sometimes this leads to social encounters. Some people need the incentive or the push.
MMOs would work in the same way. They'd set up the potential for a social exchange and leave it to you to take it further.
Modern MMOs just make you 100% self sufficient, which means no socializing or social community ever develops. And without a community holding people to games, they peter out and die very quickly (see every WoW clone).
Games are first and foremost recreational. The word 'forced' rings badly with that.
Lets not forget that "we" the gamers has pushed the genre in the direction it is in and not the developers. They only follow where the money is.
Except that the money was never in WoW clones. They didn't understand what made WoW a success and they never figured it out.
Of course they have. They simply can't reproduce it for a variety of reasons.
If that was true, and they knew they couldn't reproduce it, don't you think they wouldn't have wasted money trying? No. They don't understand at all, which is why SWTOR was such a huge failure.
I wish to shift the focus a bit and move away from 'game design' which is the stickied 'Solo vs group' thread.
From a RL point of view, humans generally don't talk to strangers with no reason. Despite the advancement in technology of 'contact me anywhere', rarely do we see humans just walk up to someone and talk to them.
If we do it is because we want something from the interaction; I talk to cafe lady who wants my money and I need my caffine shot.
And this is the theory behind 'forced' grouping. It's a simple way of bringing people together, because they 'want something from the interaction'. If the game is designed so that you find it difficult or maybe even impossible to solo then you need to seek out aid in the form of other players, much like you seek out the cafe lady for your mug of coffee. It's what humans have been doing all through time, seeking aid from others to make their tasks easier, from hunting to building skyscrapers, or calling Virgin tech support to fix your damn phone line.
Once those people are together for an extended period a bond forms between them, especially in the case of interdependency, as in the tank needs the healer to keep him alive, while the healer needs the crowd control to keep him alive, who in turn needs the tank to keep him alive...
That's the idea behind forced grouping. But I don't like the word 'forced', it gives it a negative connotation, I just call it multiplayer. The word forced is a recent idea brought in by the soloers of the MMO world, who would be better off playing a single player game.
It's human behavior to want to choose when and where to be social and not have it crammed down your throat. Games should work much the same way.
Except in games if you want to simulate human interaction...
We're forced in our day to day lives to interact with people all the time. Sometimes this leads to social encounters. Some people need the incentive or the push.
MMOs would work in the same way. They'd set up the potential for a social exchange and leave it to you to take it further.
Modern MMOs just make you 100% self sufficient, which means no socializing or social community ever develops. And without a community holding people to games, they peter out and die very quickly (see every WoW clone).
Games are first and foremost recreational. The word 'forced' rings badly with that.
Lets not forget that "we" the gamers has pushed the genre in the direction it is in and not the developers. They only follow where the money is.
Except that the money was never in WoW clones. They didn't understand what made WoW a success and they never figured it out.
Of course they have. They simply can't reproduce it for a variety of reasons.
If that was true, and they knew they couldn't reproduce it, don't you think they wouldn't have wasted money trying? No. They don't understand at all, which is why SWTOR was such a huge failure.
It's quite simple, they have to follow suit. People want familiarity like it or not. If they don't implement XYZ features people will simply leave. That's probably why SWTOR failed. It wasn't enough like WoW
It is actually human nature to need each other. I don't know if you need to talk to your parents about sex... but that alone should be enough to explain that.
Not all the time. Otherwise, solo gameplay won't be that popular. Surely i need my wife to have my two sons. But i hardly "need" her when i want to kill some stuff to have fun.
Actually, ask anyone who goes "hunting" in real life how often they go out in the woods alone. While some do of course, most hunters go out in pack, because the social interaction is more important than the hunting itself.
Heck, my grandfather hunted deer every year and admitted he only shot one, because he had no real interest in doing so, he was there for the drinking and socialization.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Or I guess in games like DAoC and Eve where grouping isn't necessarily required, but the best possible experience comes from doing so.
It's true the MMO playerbase has changed since then though.
And it backfired horribly for DDO in it's first incarnation (pre-F2P conversion).
I've always despised needing a group for everything.
That being said, I do like teaming now and then, so for me the ideal game has a mix of both.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
You don't go to bars to meet strangers...and you order orange juice while there?
I stopped reading there, it's a can of worms.
I know that part was just too much for me too.
I only go to bars to creepily stare at strangers and scurry away if they notice or try to interact with me and I only order bottled water... cuz I am just that cool.
Don't get me started if that bottled water takes too long to get to me. Thats when interaction 101 takes place.. the whole bar is going to know just how bad I want my damn water.
Not sure why this is surprizing.
A night out with friends is usually hitting a nice restaurant -> bar / nightclub.
I'm usually the driver (and I don't like majority of the alcholoic drinks) so I order mainly from the 'DD menu'.
If that's 'weird' I don't know what to say.
This thread did show me there are some people that claim to suddenly walk up to a complete stranger while walking down the street and talk to them.
I would be creeped out if that happens to me but then again, I lived in cities most of my life.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
It's human behavior to want to choose when and where to be social and not have it crammed down your Games are first and foremost recreational. The word 'forced' rings badly with that. That's exactly why we don't want to be 'forced' when we get home from work and want to relax.
To some people perhaps, but how many people willingly choose to pursue all kinds of recreational activities with other people, often with set shedules to boot? A lot. Why? Because sometimes we have to "force" and commit ourselves if we want to participate in something which requires a group effort... or simply be social for that matter. Funny thing is, most people don't complain because they are actually doing something they enjoy. In Massivly Multiplayer Online games on the other hand some people seem to be taking issue with the core concept of the games they are playing.
That said, I do prefer when an MMO leaves you the opportunity to get the base progression done on your own. But that doesn't mean an MMO shouldn't encourage plenty of grouping, you are after all playing a mulitplayer game, and so there should be more than enough rewarding group options around. And no, I don't consider things like the DE's from GW2 real grouping by any stretch of the imagination.
If you really don't want to be around other people when playing an MMO, why not play a singleplayer RPG instead? It's most likely got a much better story and a lot less grind as well.
WoW for the most part made it possible to solo from 1 to max level.With WoW's success other companies followed suit,thus you see what we see today..
Casual,accessable,solo friendly themeparks.
I don't agree with your assesment.
WoW only makes part of the content accsesible to the solo player. If you want to progress your character further, you need to group for instances, raids, arena, bgs...
They chose to make the leveling/questing part soloable, but they could easily have made the leveling require grouping, and something else be accessible to the solo player. It's a design decision.
Saying WoW doesn't offer group content is just plain lying. You can't even honestly claim ignorance considering how well known WoW is.
WoW for the most part made it possible to solo from 1 to max level.With WoW's success other companies followed suit,thus you see what we see today..
Casual,accessable,solo friendly themeparks.
I don't agree with your assesment.
WoW only makes part of the content accsesible to the solo player. If you want to progress your character further, you need to group for instances, raids, arena, bgs...
They chose to make the leveling/questing part soloable, but they could easily have made the leveling require grouping, and something else be accessible to the solo player. It's a design decision.
Saying WoW doesn't offer group content is just plain lying. You can't even honestly claim ignorance considering how well known WoW is.
Indeed, it's a somewhat funny claim. WoW's end-game has never been particularly accessible or casual, at least not to new players.
Pre-Cata WoW also had a lot of elite/group challenges spread throughout its leveling experience. Which brought people together on a somewhat regular basis at least. It's understandable that these are mostly removed by now, seeing as leveling is usually a much more lonely affair in such an old game. But that doesn't mean new games should make everything similarly simple to boot. And I think thats where a lot of mistakes are made with new MMO's.
For me it's just to be in a living world. Not to make friends or to "be social" but to be around people who are making the world live and vibrant.
I do believe that there should be content that can only be done in a group. Personally, I just like how Lineage 2 did it in the beginning. I could solo all I wanted but I could also group in better areas. And it didn't hurt me as far as gear because people would sell gear that could only be obtained in a group to other players.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
It seems like the OP drew the exact opposite conclusion from his premise than he should have. His statements demonstrate that many or even most people don't naturally socialize unless given some direct reward or reason for doing so. Therefore, games should give people direct rewards or reasons to group up and socialize since they will not naturally do so otherwise.
I think you're wrong, sorry. People don't just go up and talk to people when they want something from them, they also do it when they see someone in need, and want to help.
And forced grouping, or having everyone work on the same thing, takes advantage of both of these - you want something, and you want to help people.
In GW2, I have only once seen someone run past a dead guy without stopping to res him. I frequently see people run past me in battles, stop, whack the mob off, and go back to running. They dont NEED anything, they just like helping out.
"When people don't know much about something, they tend to fill in the blanks the way they want them to be filled in. They are almost always disappointed." - Will Wright
Or I guess in games like DAoC and Eve where grouping isn't necessarily required, but the best possible experience comes from doing so.
It's true the MMO playerbase has changed since then though.
And it backfired horribly for DDO in it's first incarnation (pre-F2P conversion).
I've always despised needing a group for everything.
That being said, I do like teaming now and then, so for me the ideal game has a mix of both.
I think if done proprly it will work. In EQ you could solo... depending on what class you chose. You could also solo much lower levels... for the most part however, it was much more efficient to group. Not required but much more efficient and rewarding. You did not really get gear from solo content (unless you were going back content at a much higher level).
You don't go to bars to meet strangers...and you order orange juice while there?
I stopped reading there, it's a can of worms.
I know that part was just too much for me too.
I only go to bars to creepily stare at strangers and scurry away if they notice or try to interact with me and I only order bottled water... cuz I am just that cool.
Don't get me started if that bottled water takes too long to get to me. Thats when interaction 101 takes place.. the whole bar is going to know just how bad I want my damn water.
Not sure why this is surprizing.
A night out with friends is usually hitting a nice restaurant -> bar / nightclub.
I'm usually the driver (and I don't like majority of the alcholoic drinks) so I order mainly from the 'DD menu'.
If that's 'weird' I don't know what to say.
This thread did show me there are some people that claim to suddenly walk up to a complete stranger while walking down the street and talk to them.
I would be creeped out if that happens to me but then again, I lived in cities most of my life.
Went ahead and highlighted and enlarged the part of your statement we do not comprehend.
Comments
Actually this topic can easily be summed up into two words "player decay".
What is player decay? Player decay is a phrase I just made up to describe a phenomena with MMORPGS that have leveling. Say you make a new MMORPG with forced grouping that has players go from 1-50.
At launch, everyone will be level 1, and soon level 10 will be where most players are at. This means getting groups for level 10 contnet is extremely easy. However, in a year, when most are at 50 (let's assume an easy leveling game), finding those level 10 groups is going to be a lot more difficult, if not impossible, especially if you play on a low populated server (or if there is only one server, a low populated game), during off-hours.
That's all you really need to say on that topic.
This type of system forces people to play during prime time or with friends, unless the game is super popular, still, the problem of player decay exists.
You did an excellent job in your examples of proving why developers of MMO's should code in forced interdependency between players to achieve certain game goals.
Since modern MMO's don't, players don't bother to socialize or interact except in the few places interdependency remains, which is dungeons and raids pretty much.
Probably not your intent however.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I am not even going to read because logically you are wrong.
Please tell me the individual who started their own hunter/gatherer society alone... got pregnant with themselves... I will answer nobody.
It is actually human nature to need each other. I don't know if you need to talk to your parents about sex... but that alone should be enough to explain that.
Also, I believe you may want to be evalutated if you believe people do not need others.
Ok read a portion of your post...
So why are you playing an MMORPG if you do not need to interact with other players? Just curious because right now I still believe you live in a fantasy world or really need to enter a mental facility.
How did you meet your friends? Were you not forced to go to school? Did you all just magically know each other with out ever being social?
I cannot think of one day I left my house and did not talk to a stranger. Hell.. right now I haven't even left my house and I am responding to a stranger...
Not all the time. Otherwise, solo gameplay won't be that popular. Surely i need my wife to have my two sons. But i hardly "need" her when i want to kill some stuff to have fun.
Whether or not forced grouping has problems is independent of the issue that a good MMORPG can't be made without it.
I agree, but only to an extent. Player decay is really the product of solo friendly games, where getting to the max level can happen in a short amount of time (also, when said max level is a ridiculously high number, like 90). Back when EQ was at its prime, 3 expansions in, with 300-500k players, there were always people, of all level ranges, grouping 24 hours a day. Most of the dungeons, even from the original release, were packed with 3+ full groups and some farmers annoying said groups.
If levelling takes a long time, and the level cap remains fairly low (alternate advancement can be included in lieu of physical levels, at that point), player decay can be thwarted indefinitely. This would keep a lot of content from becoming trivial and unused, and allows more people to group together. Sure, in EQ, you'd find people with 1000 aa's not wanting to group with a fresh level 60; but the important part is they still can group, and use the same content. 1000aa guy might want to do the more difficult stuff for better gear, but he still gets exp and money from weaker stuff, so there's still incentive.
I think forced grouping is the answer for a fun successful MMO. I also believe that WoW is more forced grouping than people let on; its clones, however, have not been. WoW and EQ2 created somewhat of a hybrid group/solo model, but both pretty much required grouping throughout the entire level range, if you wanted to complete the good quests and get the good rewards.
You don't go to bars to meet strangers...and you order orange juice while there?
I stopped reading there, it's a can of worms.
I know that part was just too much for me too.
I only go to bars to creepily stare at strangers and scurry away if they notice or try to interact with me and I only order bottled water... cuz I am just that cool.
Don't get me started if that bottled water takes too long to get to me. Thats when interaction 101 takes place.. the whole bar is going to know just how bad I want my damn water.
If that was true, and they knew they couldn't reproduce it, don't you think they wouldn't have wasted money trying? No. They don't understand at all, which is why SWTOR was such a huge failure.
And this is the theory behind 'forced' grouping. It's a simple way of bringing people together, because they 'want something from the interaction'. If the game is designed so that you find it difficult or maybe even impossible to solo then you need to seek out aid in the form of other players, much like you seek out the cafe lady for your mug of coffee. It's what humans have been doing all through time, seeking aid from others to make their tasks easier, from hunting to building skyscrapers, or calling Virgin tech support to fix your damn phone line.
Once those people are together for an extended period a bond forms between them, especially in the case of interdependency, as in the tank needs the healer to keep him alive, while the healer needs the crowd control to keep him alive, who in turn needs the tank to keep him alive...
That's the idea behind forced grouping. But I don't like the word 'forced', it gives it a negative connotation, I just call it multiplayer. The word forced is a recent idea brought in by the soloers of the MMO world, who would be better off playing a single player game.
Random people can't do shit. If you want something done, do it yourself - or trust in a premade. 95% of the time, random people suck*.
*(Based on empirical data from varying games gathered over the years.)
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
It's quite simple, they have to follow suit. People want familiarity like it or not. If they don't implement XYZ features people will simply leave. That's probably why SWTOR failed. It wasn't enough like WoW
Actually, ask anyone who goes "hunting" in real life how often they go out in the woods alone. While some do of course, most hunters go out in pack, because the social interaction is more important than the hunting itself.
Heck, my grandfather hunted deer every year and admitted he only shot one, because he had no real interest in doing so, he was there for the drinking and socialization.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
And it backfired horribly for DDO in it's first incarnation (pre-F2P conversion).
I've always despised needing a group for everything.
That being said, I do like teaming now and then, so for me the ideal game has a mix of both.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
Not sure why this is surprizing.
A night out with friends is usually hitting a nice restaurant -> bar / nightclub.
I'm usually the driver (and I don't like majority of the alcholoic drinks) so I order mainly from the 'DD menu'.
If that's 'weird' I don't know what to say.
This thread did show me there are some people that claim to suddenly walk up to a complete stranger while walking down the street and talk to them.
I would be creeped out if that happens to me but then again, I lived in cities most of my life.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
To some people perhaps, but how many people willingly choose to pursue all kinds of recreational activities with other people, often with set shedules to boot? A lot. Why? Because sometimes we have to "force" and commit ourselves if we want to participate in something which requires a group effort... or simply be social for that matter. Funny thing is, most people don't complain because they are actually doing something they enjoy. In Massivly Multiplayer Online games on the other hand some people seem to be taking issue with the core concept of the games they are playing.
That said, I do prefer when an MMO leaves you the opportunity to get the base progression done on your own. But that doesn't mean an MMO shouldn't encourage plenty of grouping, you are after all playing a mulitplayer game, and so there should be more than enough rewarding group options around. And no, I don't consider things like the DE's from GW2 real grouping by any stretch of the imagination.
If you really don't want to be around other people when playing an MMO, why not play a singleplayer RPG instead? It's most likely got a much better story and a lot less grind as well.
I don't agree with your assesment.
WoW only makes part of the content accsesible to the solo player. If you want to progress your character further, you need to group for instances, raids, arena, bgs...
They chose to make the leveling/questing part soloable, but they could easily have made the leveling require grouping, and something else be accessible to the solo player. It's a design decision.
Saying WoW doesn't offer group content is just plain lying. You can't even honestly claim ignorance considering how well known WoW is.
Indeed, it's a somewhat funny claim. WoW's end-game has never been particularly accessible or casual, at least not to new players.
Pre-Cata WoW also had a lot of elite/group challenges spread throughout its leveling experience. Which brought people together on a somewhat regular basis at least. It's understandable that these are mostly removed by now, seeing as leveling is usually a much more lonely affair in such an old game. But that doesn't mean new games should make everything similarly simple to boot. And I think thats where a lot of mistakes are made with new MMO's.
I think it was just a different group of people.
For me it's just to be in a living world. Not to make friends or to "be social" but to be around people who are making the world live and vibrant.
I do believe that there should be content that can only be done in a group. Personally, I just like how Lineage 2 did it in the beginning. I could solo all I wanted but I could also group in better areas. And it didn't hurt me as far as gear because people would sell gear that could only be obtained in a group to other players.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Argument invalid.
Worked great in FFXI.
/thread.
I think you're wrong, sorry. People don't just go up and talk to people when they want something from them, they also do it when they see someone in need, and want to help.
And forced grouping, or having everyone work on the same thing, takes advantage of both of these - you want something, and you want to help people.
In GW2, I have only once seen someone run past a dead guy without stopping to res him. I frequently see people run past me in battles, stop, whack the mob off, and go back to running. They dont NEED anything, they just like helping out.
"When people don't know much about something, they tend to fill in the blanks the way they want them to be filled in. They are almost always disappointed." - Will Wright
I think if done proprly it will work. In EQ you could solo... depending on what class you chose. You could also solo much lower levels... for the most part however, it was much more efficient to group. Not required but much more efficient and rewarding. You did not really get gear from solo content (unless you were going back content at a much higher level).
Went ahead and highlighted and enlarged the part of your statement we do not comprehend.