I won't play a MMO without a AH. It is so inefficient to barter and chat. If i want to chat, i go to a chat room. AH is great in finding the item i want, and selling those i do not.
I won't play a MMO without a AH. It is so inefficient to barter and chat. If i want to chat, i go to a chat room. AH is great in finding the item i want, and selling those i do not.
That's perfectly fine. Times of 'one mmorpg to rule (almost)all players' are finished.
Originally posted by BTrayaL I have to agree, Auction Houses are bad for community. Very very comfortable, but bad.
But they make an exquisite mini-game.
My three answers to the 'what to do with capped/bored people' has always 'raid, pvp, or strive for world economic domination'.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Originally posted by BTrayaL I have to agree, Auction Houses are bad for community. Very very comfortable, but bad.
But they make an exquisite mini-game.
My three answers to the 'what to do with capped/bored people' has always 'raid, pvp, or strive for world economic domination'.
Economy "mini-game" in games with good crafting and good player shop system (UO, SWG) was much more interesting than doing it with AH. Also because it was not so mini...
I have long been thinking of posting this, finally getting a little time to do so. While playing some games recently, TSW, GW2, SWtor, TERA, etc over the last year, it has dawned on me that the biggest community killer is the Auction House. Recently games (TSW and GW2) launched without a proper AH, and until they were put in place, people actually talked in the channels, making deals, helping people, selling mats etc. I actually made a couple acquaintances that were heavy crafters, who just were after all the supplies they could get their hands on, and I was willing to help em out. It was a good relationship. Then the AH was fixed, and since then I havent even talked to a single person in game. Before you say, well I should try making friends, there really is nothing in either TSW or GW2 that having friends makes beneficial. I dont need them to do anything in game, I dont need them to craft anything for me, etc.
Now long ago, the games we played didnt have Auction Houses, and they were very strong communities. Everyone on a server knew that if you wanted a Ubersword of Giant Slaying, that BobJohnson was the one that could craft it the best, or you could at least ask around and see if someone could hook you up. This built community, numerous times, a conversation would go something like. Hey I hear you can make me "item X', sure I can, but the mats are really tough to come by. But why dont we get a group together and go out on a hunting party to find them. You get your mats, you help me skill up one of my crafting skills, its a win/win. Friendships were formed, alliances were forged, etc.
Unfortunately with the have it all now crowd that play MMO's Auction Houses are an evil necessity. You collect your mats, sell them on the AH for X currency, then search for the item you want and bam, you got it, very short time, very EZ. But during this time, you have no interaction with another player whatsoever, hell you dont even know who made you your item. Items used to be imprinted with crafters as well, so that when someone says hey where did you get that sword you could inspect it and it would say made by "player X".
Anyways, I know I am going to likely be in the minority, but its something I have been thinking of for some time. I think a happy medium might be a game where an Auction House isnt really an AH, but a Job listing, for example you want "Sword X" you search the AH database of "who" can craft it, and it will give you a list with (online/offline) status's, where you then actually need to interact with a player, It might not be all that much different but at least its a step back in the right direction
Thoughts?
Let me guess, former SWG player and enjoyed it's crafting/gathering/selling system?
If so, you were damaged by that experience and enjoyed somethnig that isn' tlikely to return in modern MMO's. You will never be happy again.
But no, I recall playing L1 and it had no auction house, we shouted our sales, and it was way too painful to have to stand in some centralized location waiting for someone to bit for your speel. Maybe in SWG it worked better, but in most other games replacing that was a blessing, and I for one wouldn't want to go back.
Lineage 2 made it a bit better with private stores, but you had to stay logged in 24/7 so your store could stay up when you were afk. (or have a market alt, which many did)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Now bear with me here, my memories of SWG are muddled given that it had oh so many forms over its lifetime and I poked my head in for most of them.
If I recally SWG launched with a terminal system that allowed players to place items for sale on a sort of aution house style. You could search for items you wanted and you had to travel to a terminal in the city it was put up for sale at to retireve the purchased item.
It also allowed crafters to place vendors in their homes/buildings to sell good, these vendors could even be searched via the ingame map and their locations were clearly indicated by way points.
At one point I know that SWG even allowed you to search for items sold at player vendors by using the auction house terminals, you still had to travel to the vendor's shop, but you could one search at one terminal to find what you were looking for and get a waypoint to the shop.
Personally I thought the above was the best system. It allowed me to form relationships with crafters, by going to their shops seeing (usually on display or through vendor NPC text prompts) what they could craft and figuring out if these items, their quality and such fit my needs.
It probably will never be seen in a game again because it requires many things that games are not doing. It requires crafted items to be as good or better than drops. It requires Housing (something many games seem to be getting away from) and it requires a crafting system that is highly customizable. You see the main reason to develop a relationship with the crafter in a game like SWG was because your skills were often such that you needed gear was custom made to fit them, and to add to that all of the clothing/armor was highly customizable for colors, so you could specify the exact colors you wanted items to be.
My point is that in SWG the auction house system actually severed to deepen community ties rather than isolate the community. I think the problem is not the convenience, but rather that design of the convenience.
SWG was the best. On my server everyone knew if you wanted things made, you asked Sixx (Originally BrennenWear). I had it all, got it all and made nearly everything craftble.
Customizing stuff for people kept me busier than anything in game as far as adventuring, I spent weeks, months never even needing or wanting to go kill stuff for exp.
My shops were second to none, I miss it, its too bad we wont see this ever again. Crafting can be as good or better than any adventuring to some. I was one of those, i see the point of the OP but not sure I agree that AH killed the community. Lots in the post I do agree with, however.
Lineage 2 made it a bit better with private stores, but you had to stay logged in 24/7 so your store could stay up when you were afk. (or have a market alt, which many did)
Never understood that in L2. Ultima Online (and think SWG too) had unkillable NPC for rent that were placeable only near your house and they cared of sales. You also had limit of one NPC to not spam them obviously. That like it looked like when I was still playing. Obviously it was working all the time when you was afk and you could pay 'rent' for NPC for significant time ahead so you could even be afk for loooong time. + you could make it so it would buy items you listed as well for price you listed. So it was quite common that I was going to buy in example an armor from player shop of armorsmith I knew and I was selling him through his shop some weapon or resource he needed.
Obviously that system can be also improved alot.
Never understood why L2 had so bad player shop system.
One of the many thing I loved in SWG was driving around with my speeder from vendor to vendor and finding awesome stuff.
Maybe it's because I didn't play SWG but...that sounds like the most boring activity ever. (note: I also hate shopping IRL...)
Very much so. In fact, i want a AH with good searching & pricing functions. D3 was slammed in the beginning because of the cumbersome AH interface. AH needs to be efficient, and let people find that sword they want fast.
I didn't mind the wheeling and dealing done in EQ, but when they put in the bazaar, it was greatly appreciated lol. I kind of liked the bazaar better than the auction house because there was still some negotiating that could go on. You had to stay logged in to show your wares. That helped sometimes if say 10 people had a superb item to sell, but all weren't on at the same time, it was a bit more interesting. Instead of always having 10 of the same item being undercut, values were kept higher since only 2 or 3 were being sold. Also since they had to be on, if they weren't afk, you could /tell them and work out a deal, maybe offer less, or some trades.
When I was playing the progression server not long ago, before we got to the bazaar being put in, we /auction stuff and it worked ok, but so much smoother with bazaar and there was still interaction. Made quite a few deals after searching the bazaar.
Also as said before, even older games with auction houses didn't hamper socialization in the community. It is moreso the style of gameplay that has come out. Even in current games I still see people peddling their wares, and if it is a good price, I'll buy.
I do think people would be more likely to peddle their wares if crafting was actually useful. I remember in daoc, when buying armor, you really wanted to get that 99% quality, or if lucky 100% quality. People aren't just going to use the AH to see that since it took many tries to get that particular quality. Probably would see something like "Making full set master quality (100%) dragonscale armor PST.
The AH would be good for those lesser quality items made of the 95-98% that people don't care if they don't maximize to the fullest. Then you have your spellcrafters that you need to add the stats the way you want them on each piece. Can't do that in AH, need to interact. Then your alchemist to add on effects, procs, some graphics (glowies).
Games just need a reason to have people interact where not everything can be done on the AH, but overall, don't think it really kills communities.
It probably has little to no impact on player interaction. In fact, I have less people on my blacklist cause I don't have to block players that spam they are selling something. Generally there is an alternate channel for these games that have Auction House Systems in them anyway for those of you that like to chat about pricing and such. The point here is that you're idea is not very solid as there really isn't any social aspect in the actual trading process aside from "wts/b" spam, "i want to buy that from you" or "can you bring the price down?"
It can't kill the social community if the community doesn't really use it as a prime social aspect of the game.
I played WoW up until WotLK, played RoM for 2 years and now Rift. I am F2P player. I support games when I feel they deserve my money and I want the items enough. I don't troll, and I don't take kindly to trolls.
I just don't see it. I've played games with everything from global auction houses to no auction houses. I haven't noticed a difference in the communities. I think this is one of those 'politically correct' things to complain about. If anything, it's an interesting topic, and I like to see what people think.
Now bear with me here, my memories of SWG are muddled given that it had oh so many forms over its lifetime and I poked my head in for most of them.
If I recally SWG launched with a terminal system that allowed players to place items for sale on a sort of aution house style. You could search for items you wanted and you had to travel to a terminal in the city it was put up for sale at to retireve the purchased item.
It also allowed crafters to place vendors in their homes/buildings to sell good, these vendors could even be searched via the ingame map and their locations were clearly indicated by way points.
At one point I know that SWG even allowed you to search for items sold at player vendors by using the auction house terminals, you still had to travel to the vendor's shop, but you could one search at one terminal to find what you were looking for and get a waypoint to the shop.
Personally I thought the above was the best system. It allowed me to form relationships with crafters, by going to their shops seeing (usually on display or through vendor NPC text prompts) what they could craft and figuring out if these items, their quality and such fit my needs.
It probably will never be seen in a game again because it requires many things that games are not doing. It requires crafted items to be as good or better than drops. It requires Housing (something many games seem to be getting away from) and it requires a crafting system that is highly customizable. You see the main reason to develop a relationship with the crafter in a game like SWG was because your skills were often such that you needed gear was custom made to fit them, and to add to that all of the clothing/armor was highly customizable for colors, so you could specify the exact colors you wanted items to be.
My point is that in SWG the auction house system actually severed to deepen community ties rather than isolate the community. I think the problem is not the convenience, but rather that design of the convenience.
Well, SWG sort of had the best of both worlds: it had multi-planet bazaar terminals that allowed you search for the things you needed/wanted and buy/sell lower priced "convenience items". Also could search galaxy wide for stuff people had on listed vendors.
Crafter vendors were needed to sell items over the max value allowed on the bazaar terminals, but the items on the vendor tenrminals were searchable galaxy wide, but you had to go to the actual crafter's shop to make the purchases.
All in all it was a good system, allowing for "convenience shopping" for the cheap stuff, and having the chance to meet the crafter or visit his shop (at least) to get the more important items.
I have long been thinking of posting this, finally getting a little time to do so. While playing some games recently, TSW, GW2, SWtor, TERA, etc over the last year, it has dawned on me that the biggest community killer is the Auction House. Recently games (TSW and GW2) launched without a proper AH, and until they were put in place, people actually talked in the channels, making deals, helping people, selling mats etc. I actually made a couple acquaintances that were heavy crafters, who just were after all the supplies they could get their hands on, and I was willing to help em out. It was a good relationship. Then the AH was fixed, and since then I havent even talked to a single person in game. Before you say, well I should try making friends, there really is nothing in either TSW or GW2 that having friends makes beneficial. I dont need them to do anything in game, I dont need them to craft anything for me, etc.
Now long ago, the games we played didnt have Auction Houses, and they were very strong communities. Everyone on a server knew that if you wanted a Ubersword of Giant Slaying, that BobJohnson was the one that could craft it the best, or you could at least ask around and see if someone could hook you up. This built community, numerous times, a conversation would go something like. Hey I hear you can make me "item X', sure I can, but the mats are really tough to come by. But why dont we get a group together and go out on a hunting party to find them. You get your mats, you help me skill up one of my crafting skills, its a win/win. Friendships were formed, alliances were forged, etc.
Unfortunately with the have it all now crowd that play MMO's Auction Houses are an evil necessity. You collect your mats, sell them on the AH for X currency, then search for the item you want and bam, you got it, very short time, very EZ. But during this time, you have no interaction with another player whatsoever, hell you dont even know who made you your item. Items used to be imprinted with crafters as well, so that when someone says hey where did you get that sword you could inspect it and it would say made by "player X".
Anyways, I know I am going to likely be in the minority, but its something I have been thinking of for some time. I think a happy medium might be a game where an Auction House isnt really an AH, but a Job listing, for example you want "Sword X" you search the AH database of "who" can craft it, and it will give you a list with (online/offline) status's, where you then actually need to interact with a player, It might not be all that much different but at least its a step back in the right direction
Thoughts?
This is food for thought, especially the paragraph Kylerian hilighted initially. I have a bit of a unique perspective because I've only ever played 2 graphical MMORPGs; one of them was WoW and that was for 3 months, the other one I've been playing for over 9 years. I agree the auction house worked well in WoW, but in the end it ended up being one domino in a chain of 'features' that ended up turning me away from the game (another big one being that Avatars occupied no real physical space like in Neal Stephenson's 'Snow Crash'... yeah, really).
In the second game, the one I stuck with, auction houses do not exist and there are rare / manufactured items and weaponry. I initially was for the idea of having something like an auction house in game, then I was on the fence. Now, I'm not sure, but I will say this: I just logged off after having bartered a Concussion Railgun to another player over public chat. There were several layers of social interaction that would have been skipped over had the transaction gone through an auction house. There was the 'live' element of asking for someone to make me an offer... discussing the weapon over private chat, comparing it to other items in game (appraisal)... the immediate surprise of having the offer made twice as high as I would have sold for... agreeing on a spot to meet (public or out-of-the-way...? hmm)... then the tense moments after meeting realizing that HE was part of a guild MY alma mater guild had declared KOS, but would it matter? (politics)...
In the end the trade went flawlessly; I came away with twice as much as I had hoped for, and he flew off with a weapon he probably had little idea how to acquire on his own. It could have gone badly: he could have opened fire on my ship instead of transferring the credits (losing faction standing), and I could have flown off after receiving the credits without dropping the weapon (losing reputation). An auction house would probably have eliminated at least some of these variables. Some may see it as an inconvenience, but there is a segment of players that argue in-station player to player trade should be left out because the extra steps are in fact one facet of emergent gameplay; appraisal, location, politics, faction standing, reputation... worthwhile aspects.
Thanks for the interesting topic.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
You may be on to something, OP. As I look back over almost a decade of mmos, the community is strongest where trading is an integral part of it. But the maturity of the player base is relevant, as well as an integrated RP element.
The best all-around community I've seen in the past six months is in LOTRO (as compared to WoW, TSW, EQ2 and Vanguard). Obviously just my personal opinion.
The chat chanell is OPEN,therfore it is NOT the place for personal selling.That IS what an AH is for.
it was my biggest peeve when i left FFXI ,where it simply did not exist.I entered EQ2 and VG and Wow and i was amazed at al lthe bs,WTS and WTB SPAM.All you need to do is realize that if there is 5k players and ALL 5k want to spam chat chanell with their WTS and WTB ,the chat would scroll so fast,it would outrace even the EVE online RMT ISK sellers.
It is nonsense to think selling items is the way to make friends,there are far better ways than spamming a chat chanell.It actually p[isses me off,so you wouldn't gain any friends here spamming my chat chanell.
If you want to open your own private auction channel that is different,you are not disrespecting the rest of the users from using the chat chaenll for IMPORTANT things.
If you are still not clued in,then join a group and every 15 seconds spam the group chat with WTS or wtb and see how long before hey all yell at you.
It is simply put a form of DISRESPECT to others users,it is like saying they can use the AH just fine,but YOUR wares are far more important than theirs and needs to be spammed across open chat.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Originally posted by Wizardry The chat chanell is OPEN,therfore it is NOT the place for personal selling.That IS what an AH is for.it was my biggest peeve when i left FFXI ,where it simply did not exist.I entered EQ2 and VG and Wow and i was amazed at al lthe bs,WTS and WTB SPAM.All you need to do is realize that if there is 5k players and ALL 5k want to spam chat chanell with their WTS and WTB ,the chat would scroll so fast,it would outrace even the EVE online RMT ISK sellers.It is nonsense to think selling items is the way to make friends,there are far better ways than spamming a chat chanell.It actually p[isses me off,so you wouldn't gain any friends here spamming my chat chanell.If you want to open your own private auction channel that is different,you are not disrespecting the rest of the users from using the chat chaenll for IMPORTANT things.If you are still not clued in,then join a group and every 15 seconds spam the group chat with WTS or wtb and see how long before hey all yell at you.It is simply put a form of DISRESPECT to others users,it is like saying they can use the AH just fine,but YOUR wares are far more important than theirs and needs to be spammed across open chat.
But in games where there is no AH, the /trade channel or somesuch is the method for selling and buying. This does have the effect of bringing a community together, as over time you get to see who the main players are in your economy. And as an outgrowth of that tradeskill or economic community is the banding together of players against scammers and goldsellers, which can produce server pride and teamwork even across faction lines.
It is the lack of the ability for the players to run their own vendors that seems to kill communities in terms of economy more.
I notice that most games that have player run vendors (such as SWG, EU or Darkfall) players seems to associate with each other more because they want to find where the good items are sold and who is a good crafter.
It also makes people travel around more, those more chances to run into each other and chat.
Auction houses do remove a bit of community. In UO you'd find a great blacksmith who always had great mat's and skills and stick to him if he treated you well. It is pretty anonymous now. But I would not call it a community killer.
Also, solo quests are not community killers either. That's a huge fallacy. In UO everything was solo. There were no real quests. You befriended people by chance, trading, shared interests and so on.
WIth that said, I am sure there is a way to enhance the auction house somewhat to give it a more personal touch. Maybe vendors can have their own sections/tabs (when searched criteria is met), and they could even offer discounts on bulk deals. Maybe even offer certain prices for preferred customers? It could even show "online" and you could message them to work out a deal. I dunno, just thoughts off the top of my head. But again, I don't think its a community killer.
Comments
I won't play a MMO without a AH. It is so inefficient to barter and chat. If i want to chat, i go to a chat room. AH is great in finding the item i want, and selling those i do not.
That's perfectly fine. Times of 'one mmorpg to rule (almost)all players' are finished.
But they make an exquisite mini-game.
My three answers to the 'what to do with capped/bored people' has always 'raid, pvp, or strive for world economic domination'.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Economy "mini-game" in games with good crafting and good player shop system (UO, SWG) was much more interesting than doing it with AH. Also because it was not so mini...
KInda why I miss it so much.
Let me guess, former SWG player and enjoyed it's crafting/gathering/selling system?
If so, you were damaged by that experience and enjoyed somethnig that isn' tlikely to return in modern MMO's. You will never be happy again.
But no, I recall playing L1 and it had no auction house, we shouted our sales, and it was way too painful to have to stand in some centralized location waiting for someone to bit for your speel. Maybe in SWG it worked better, but in most other games replacing that was a blessing, and I for one wouldn't want to go back.
Lineage 2 made it a bit better with private stores, but you had to stay logged in 24/7 so your store could stay up when you were afk. (or have a market alt, which many did)
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Now bear with me here, my memories of SWG are muddled given that it had oh so many forms over its lifetime and I poked my head in for most of them.
If I recally SWG launched with a terminal system that allowed players to place items for sale on a sort of aution house style. You could search for items you wanted and you had to travel to a terminal in the city it was put up for sale at to retireve the purchased item.
It also allowed crafters to place vendors in their homes/buildings to sell good, these vendors could even be searched via the ingame map and their locations were clearly indicated by way points.
At one point I know that SWG even allowed you to search for items sold at player vendors by using the auction house terminals, you still had to travel to the vendor's shop, but you could one search at one terminal to find what you were looking for and get a waypoint to the shop.
Personally I thought the above was the best system. It allowed me to form relationships with crafters, by going to their shops seeing (usually on display or through vendor NPC text prompts) what they could craft and figuring out if these items, their quality and such fit my needs.
It probably will never be seen in a game again because it requires many things that games are not doing. It requires crafted items to be as good or better than drops. It requires Housing (something many games seem to be getting away from) and it requires a crafting system that is highly customizable. You see the main reason to develop a relationship with the crafter in a game like SWG was because your skills were often such that you needed gear was custom made to fit them, and to add to that all of the clothing/armor was highly customizable for colors, so you could specify the exact colors you wanted items to be.
My point is that in SWG the auction house system actually severed to deepen community ties rather than isolate the community. I think the problem is not the convenience, but rather that design of the convenience.
I agree
SWG was the best. On my server everyone knew if you wanted things made, you asked Sixx (Originally BrennenWear). I had it all, got it all and made nearly everything craftble.
Customizing stuff for people kept me busier than anything in game as far as adventuring, I spent weeks, months never even needing or wanting to go kill stuff for exp.
My shops were second to none, I miss it, its too bad we wont see this ever again. Crafting can be as good or better than any adventuring to some. I was one of those, i see the point of the OP but not sure I agree that AH killed the community. Lots in the post I do agree with, however.
Also agree that WTS/B spam sux hehe
Never understood that in L2. Ultima Online (and think SWG too) had unkillable NPC for rent that were placeable only near your house and they cared of sales. You also had limit of one NPC to not spam them obviously. That like it looked like when I was still playing. Obviously it was working all the time when you was afk and you could pay 'rent' for NPC for significant time ahead so you could even be afk for loooong time. + you could make it so it would buy items you listed as well for price you listed. So it was quite common that I was going to buy in example an armor from player shop of armorsmith I knew and I was selling him through his shop some weapon or resource he needed.
Obviously that system can be also improved alot.
Never understood why L2 had so bad player shop system.
One of the many thing I loved in SWG was driving around with my speeder from vendor to vendor and finding awesome stuff.
Maybe it's because I didn't play SWG but...that sounds like the most boring activity ever. (note: I also hate shopping IRL...)
Very much so. In fact, i want a AH with good searching & pricing functions. D3 was slammed in the beginning because of the cumbersome AH interface. AH needs to be efficient, and let people find that sword they want fast.
I didn't mind the wheeling and dealing done in EQ, but when they put in the bazaar, it was greatly appreciated lol. I kind of liked the bazaar better than the auction house because there was still some negotiating that could go on. You had to stay logged in to show your wares. That helped sometimes if say 10 people had a superb item to sell, but all weren't on at the same time, it was a bit more interesting. Instead of always having 10 of the same item being undercut, values were kept higher since only 2 or 3 were being sold. Also since they had to be on, if they weren't afk, you could /tell them and work out a deal, maybe offer less, or some trades.
When I was playing the progression server not long ago, before we got to the bazaar being put in, we /auction stuff and it worked ok, but so much smoother with bazaar and there was still interaction. Made quite a few deals after searching the bazaar.
Also as said before, even older games with auction houses didn't hamper socialization in the community. It is moreso the style of gameplay that has come out. Even in current games I still see people peddling their wares, and if it is a good price, I'll buy.
I do think people would be more likely to peddle their wares if crafting was actually useful. I remember in daoc, when buying armor, you really wanted to get that 99% quality, or if lucky 100% quality. People aren't just going to use the AH to see that since it took many tries to get that particular quality. Probably would see something like "Making full set master quality (100%) dragonscale armor PST.
The AH would be good for those lesser quality items made of the 95-98% that people don't care if they don't maximize to the fullest. Then you have your spellcrafters that you need to add the stats the way you want them on each piece. Can't do that in AH, need to interact. Then your alchemist to add on effects, procs, some graphics (glowies).
Games just need a reason to have people interact where not everything can be done on the AH, but overall, don't think it really kills communities.
can u plz stop saying that the SWG and SWTOR and other similar games have AH?
since the prices are fixed, arent AHs. Cuz simply they dont have auction ability
It probably has little to no impact on player interaction. In fact, I have less people on my blacklist cause I don't have to block players that spam they are selling something. Generally there is an alternate channel for these games that have Auction House Systems in them anyway for those of you that like to chat about pricing and such. The point here is that you're idea is not very solid as there really isn't any social aspect in the actual trading process aside from "wts/b" spam, "i want to buy that from you" or "can you bring the price down?"
It can't kill the social community if the community doesn't really use it as a prime social aspect of the game.
I played WoW up until WotLK, played RoM for 2 years and now Rift.
I am F2P player. I support games when I feel they deserve my money and I want the items enough.
I don't troll, and I don't take kindly to trolls.
But they act in many ways like an auction house.
When you go to an auction there is a starting amound and then you bid, each person bidding increases that amount.
That is what happens in these MMO's. The only difference is the seller (not the game) has arbitrarily chosen an upper limit.
The AH is a plus in a bazaar
I self identify as a monkey.
Well, SWG sort of had the best of both worlds: it had multi-planet bazaar terminals that allowed you search for the things you needed/wanted and buy/sell lower priced "convenience items". Also could search galaxy wide for stuff people had on listed vendors.
Crafter vendors were needed to sell items over the max value allowed on the bazaar terminals, but the items on the vendor tenrminals were searchable galaxy wide, but you had to go to the actual crafter's shop to make the purchases.
All in all it was a good system, allowing for "convenience shopping" for the cheap stuff, and having the chance to meet the crafter or visit his shop (at least) to get the more important items.
This is food for thought, especially the paragraph Kylerian hilighted initially. I have a bit of a unique perspective because I've only ever played 2 graphical MMORPGs; one of them was WoW and that was for 3 months, the other one I've been playing for over 9 years. I agree the auction house worked well in WoW, but in the end it ended up being one domino in a chain of 'features' that ended up turning me away from the game (another big one being that Avatars occupied no real physical space like in Neal Stephenson's 'Snow Crash'... yeah, really).
In the second game, the one I stuck with, auction houses do not exist and there are rare / manufactured items and weaponry. I initially was for the idea of having something like an auction house in game, then I was on the fence. Now, I'm not sure, but I will say this: I just logged off after having bartered a Concussion Railgun to another player over public chat. There were several layers of social interaction that would have been skipped over had the transaction gone through an auction house. There was the 'live' element of asking for someone to make me an offer... discussing the weapon over private chat, comparing it to other items in game (appraisal)... the immediate surprise of having the offer made twice as high as I would have sold for... agreeing on a spot to meet (public or out-of-the-way...? hmm)... then the tense moments after meeting realizing that HE was part of a guild MY alma mater guild had declared KOS, but would it matter? (politics)...
In the end the trade went flawlessly; I came away with twice as much as I had hoped for, and he flew off with a weapon he probably had little idea how to acquire on his own. It could have gone badly: he could have opened fire on my ship instead of transferring the credits (losing faction standing), and I could have flown off after receiving the credits without dropping the weapon (losing reputation). An auction house would probably have eliminated at least some of these variables. Some may see it as an inconvenience, but there is a segment of players that argue in-station player to player trade should be left out because the extra steps are in fact one facet of emergent gameplay; appraisal, location, politics, faction standing, reputation... worthwhile aspects.
Thanks for the interesting topic.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
You may be on to something, OP. As I look back over almost a decade of mmos, the community is strongest where trading is an integral part of it. But the maturity of the player base is relevant, as well as an integrated RP element.
The best all-around community I've seen in the past six months is in LOTRO (as compared to WoW, TSW, EQ2 and Vanguard). Obviously just my personal opinion.
The chat chanell is OPEN,therfore it is NOT the place for personal selling.That IS what an AH is for.
it was my biggest peeve when i left FFXI ,where it simply did not exist.I entered EQ2 and VG and Wow and i was amazed at al lthe bs,WTS and WTB SPAM.All you need to do is realize that if there is 5k players and ALL 5k want to spam chat chanell with their WTS and WTB ,the chat would scroll so fast,it would outrace even the EVE online RMT ISK sellers.
It is nonsense to think selling items is the way to make friends,there are far better ways than spamming a chat chanell.It actually p[isses me off,so you wouldn't gain any friends here spamming my chat chanell.
If you want to open your own private auction channel that is different,you are not disrespecting the rest of the users from using the chat chaenll for IMPORTANT things.
If you are still not clued in,then join a group and every 15 seconds spam the group chat with WTS or wtb and see how long before hey all yell at you.
It is simply put a form of DISRESPECT to others users,it is like saying they can use the AH just fine,but YOUR wares are far more important than theirs and needs to be spammed across open chat.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
But in games where there is no AH, the /trade channel or somesuch is the method for selling and buying. This does have the effect of bringing a community together, as over time you get to see who the main players are in your economy. And as an outgrowth of that tradeskill or economic community is the banding together of players against scammers and goldsellers, which can produce server pride and teamwork even across faction lines.
Don't think it is just the AH itself.
It is the lack of the ability for the players to run their own vendors that seems to kill communities in terms of economy more.
I notice that most games that have player run vendors (such as SWG, EU or Darkfall) players seems to associate with each other more because they want to find where the good items are sold and who is a good crafter.
It also makes people travel around more, those more chances to run into each other and chat.
Auction houses do remove a bit of community. In UO you'd find a great blacksmith who always had great mat's and skills and stick to him if he treated you well. It is pretty anonymous now. But I would not call it a community killer.
Also, solo quests are not community killers either. That's a huge fallacy. In UO everything was solo. There were no real quests. You befriended people by chance, trading, shared interests and so on.
WIth that said, I am sure there is a way to enhance the auction house somewhat to give it a more personal touch. Maybe vendors can have their own sections/tabs (when searched criteria is met), and they could even offer discounts on bulk deals. Maybe even offer certain prices for preferred customers? It could even show "online" and you could message them to work out a deal. I dunno, just thoughts off the top of my head. But again, I don't think its a community killer.