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Future of MMOs

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  • YakkinYakkin Member Posts: 919
    Originally posted by NorseGod

    You're talking about 1st generation MMO players that see themeparks for what they are. Limited, therefore inferior. The same small group of players that were pushed out like last night's Mexican dinner in favor of millions of  "everyone is a winner" brats.

    That kind of attitude, and you wonder why people are so hostile to sandbox MMO players.

    Both sandbox and themepark have different strengths and weaknesses, but that does not make one superior or inferior to the other; it just means they're different. Maybe if you'd stop acting like everyone who doesn't subscribe to the "Themepark is for brainless degenerates, the only true MMO is sandbox" school of thought is a loser or not a true MMO gamer, then maybe we'd be wiling to take you more seriously.

  • ArChWindArChWind Member UncommonPosts: 1,340
    Originally posted by rungard

    to be honest the future of mmos looks pretty grim.

    the costs to make them are astronomical, the market is sautrated with games, the profit model is in jeopardy with the advent of b2P and F2P, and fail rate is very high and irrelevent of budget. the games require high maintenance and the fans are the most critical in existance. it takes 5 years to make content for 1 month.

    funcom will be out of business soon

    EA i believe will back off mmo's with all there failures

    Hard to say with sony, but the parent company is in the shitter and they havent had a hit game in 13 years.

    all that will be left will be Blizzard ( and if titan fails to impress thats it for them)

    and NCSoft will probabally become the dominant force in mmo's

    as much as i like mmo's...i cant see many investors wanting to take chances on this these days at least not in the west. 

    hopefully im wrong.

    The first MMOs were not made by high budget bloated cost. They were made by guys and gals that loved the game design and wanted to make something unique. They spent their free time working at it. The big problem came in when the genre exploded in the market and became a household name and a BIG money maker. Everyone and their dog wanted a piece of the pie.
     
    There are so few people left in this industry that will gather their skills and work at something for free that it has totally ruined the independents chance to make a decent product that would compete. I can fully understand that artist want to contract out and make back their investment in time so it leave a very few that either have to have investments or people willing to roll up their sleeves and work.
     
    But then again, who wants to spend 25% of their lifetime working on something just to have it ridiculed because it does not have this or that functionality at release or lacks something that was considered AAA? Who wants to work at a game design that gives them nothing in return for YEARS of investment when they can make a simple app that will have fast turn around?
     
    The genre is not dying it is evolving. It is just not going in a good direction at the moment.
    ArChWind — MMORPG.com Forums

    If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
  • PresbytierPresbytier Member UncommonPosts: 424
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by Presbytier
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by Presbytier

    I have nothing against sandbox games, and in fact welcome them. My problem is the attitude that anything other than a sandbox is an inferior product and only sandbox can bring MMOs to their true potentiol. I like a mix of themempark and sandbox; that is why I am really looking forward to FFXIV: A Realm Reborn.

    You're talking about 1st generation MMO players that see themeparks for what they are. Limited, therefore inferior. The same small group of players that were pushed out like last night's Mexican dinner in favor of millions of  "everyone is a winner" brats.

    Every few months, for years, the same themepark is released with a different skin. That's great. Good for the themepark-hoppers. But, why is it too much to ask for a properly funded and supported sandbox to come out every once in awhile?

    Sandboxes don't even need to come out every other month like they HAVE TO with themeparks. Sandboxes required years of play time to develope your character. A character that was actually important than some people's families (Evercrack, Everquest Widows, etc.).

    Yes, I know, profits. But you know, there was a time when games were made by gamers. There was a time when stock prices were not quoted on gaming sites. Those days also happen to be the time when people played the same game for years because they loved playing the game that much.

    More on profits, newer games are all about box sales then running away with the money. Let's look at SWTOR. It was everything themepark-hoppers wanted, leading up to launch. Let's say they stay with the monthly payment model. Which game would have generated more income at the 5-year mark, SWTOR or EVE? Think CCP is unhappy with the number of players they have? I'm sure they are making more money than they ever planned for. That probably explains why they have free, yearly expansions. Will SWTOR? How about GW2? Will this "best MMO/ next generation MMO" of the month have a free yearly expansion? My point is, it isn't always about profits.

    Yes to some extant it is always about profits. Let's be realistic here it takes alot of money to make and keep up a quality game. If all you want is a sandbox MMORPG where money is not a big deal go play a graphical MUD.

    "Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood
    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson

  • PresbytierPresbytier Member UncommonPosts: 424
    Originally posted by ArChWind
    Originally posted by rungard

    to be honest the future of mmos looks pretty grim.

    the costs to make them are astronomical, the market is sautrated with games, the profit model is in jeopardy with the advent of b2P and F2P, and fail rate is very high and irrelevent of budget. the games require high maintenance and the fans are the most critical in existance. it takes 5 years to make content for 1 month.

    funcom will be out of business soon

    EA i believe will back off mmo's with all there failures

    Hard to say with sony, but the parent company is in the shitter and they havent had a hit game in 13 years.

    all that will be left will be Blizzard ( and if titan fails to impress thats it for them)

    and NCSoft will probabally become the dominant force in mmo's

    as much as i like mmo's...i cant see many investors wanting to take chances on this these days at least not in the west. 

    hopefully im wrong.

     
     
    The genre is not dying it is evolving. It is just not going in a good direction at the moment.

    All forms of art go through an ebb and flow, but no dedium is ever replaced. Do you think CGI replaced oil paintings...No of course not. So while some things change they never truly replace just expand on what is allready there.

    "Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood
    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson

  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,654
    Originally posted by Enigmatus
    Originally posted by NorseGod

    You're talking about 1st generation MMO players that see themeparks for what they are. Limited, therefore inferior. The same small group of players that were pushed out like last night's Mexican dinner in favor of millions of  "everyone is a winner" brats.

    That kind of attitude, and you wonder why people are so hostile to sandbox MMO players.

    Both sandbox and themepark have different strengths and weaknesses, but that does not make one superior or inferior to the other; it just means they're different. Maybe if you'd stop acting like everyone who doesn't subscribe to the "Themepark is for brainless degenerates, the only true MMO is sandbox" school of thought is a loser or not a true MMO gamer, then maybe we'd be wiling to take you more seriously.

    Oh, you must think I'm asking you for your damn permission for a sandbox MMO, how cute.

    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • YakkinYakkin Member Posts: 919
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by Enigmatus
    Originally posted by NorseGod

    You're talking about 1st generation MMO players that see themeparks for what they are. Limited, therefore inferior. The same small group of players that were pushed out like last night's Mexican dinner in favor of millions of  "everyone is a winner" brats.

    That kind of attitude, and you wonder why people are so hostile to sandbox MMO players.

    Both sandbox and themepark have different strengths and weaknesses, but that does not make one superior or inferior to the other; it just means they're different. Maybe if you'd stop acting like everyone who doesn't subscribe to the "Themepark is for brainless degenerates, the only true MMO is sandbox" school of thought is a loser or not a true MMO gamer, then maybe we'd be wiling to take you more seriously.

    Oh, you must think I'm asking you for your damn permission for a sandbox MMO, how cute.

    Wasn't doing that, just saying you should consider not being a dick to those who like Themepark MMOs.

  • PresbytierPresbytier Member UncommonPosts: 424
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by Enigmatus
    Originally posted by NorseGod

    You're talking about 1st generation MMO players that see themeparks for what they are. Limited, therefore inferior. The same small group of players that were pushed out like last night's Mexican dinner in favor of millions of  "everyone is a winner" brats.

    That kind of attitude, and you wonder why people are so hostile to sandbox MMO players.

    Both sandbox and themepark have different strengths and weaknesses, but that does not make one superior or inferior to the other; it just means they're different. Maybe if you'd stop acting like everyone who doesn't subscribe to the "Themepark is for brainless degenerates, the only true MMO is sandbox" school of thought is a loser or not a true MMO gamer, then maybe we'd be wiling to take you more seriously.

    Oh, you must think I'm asking you for your damn permission for a sandbox MMO, how cute.

    There are over 8 billion people in the world i think it is mighty big enough for fans of both types of games, and even the hybrid types like myself.

    "Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood
    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson

  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,654

    Anyways, my prediction in regards to the title is this...

    "MMOs" will become lobby-based (possibly city hub) instanced co-OPs. LFD teleports to a dungeon map and back to the lobby, by-passing any need to create a world at all.

    All the devs would do is create new dungeons every few months and charge $40 for it or sell access via cash shops. And like the FPS maps of yester year, the maps will start out big then gradually get smaller over time due to dev laziness, cutting costs, and the "whaa, it's too hard" crowd.

    Maybe they should cut to the chase and just start everyone out as the same class with the same gear with stupid looking over-sized shoulder pads and swords. The abilities can be 1 attack and 1 cc without any cool-downs and the first person who cc the enemy instantly wins the "PvP" match.

    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,654
    Originally posted by Presbytier
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by Enigmatus
    Originally posted by NorseGod

    There are over 8 billion people in the world i think it is mighty big enough for fans of both types of games, and even the hybrid types like myself.

    Yet, a group of 300K-400K is a threat to the millions.

    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • PresbytierPresbytier Member UncommonPosts: 424
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by Presbytier
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by Enigmatus
    Originally posted by NorseGod

    There are over 8 billion people in the world i think it is mighty big enough for fans of both types of games, and even the hybrid types like myself.

    Yet, a group of 300K-400K is a threat to the millions.

    Nope not threatened here, so I have no idea what you are getting at.

    "Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood
    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson

  • LeoghanLeoghan Member Posts: 607
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by Presbytier
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by Enigmatus
    Originally posted by NorseGod

    There are over 8 billion people in the world i think it is mighty big enough for fans of both types of games, and even the hybrid types like myself.

    Yet, a group of 300K-400K is a threat to the millions.

    Where do you get that sandboxers are a threat? The reality is that sandboxers (and to an extant I consider myself one) are not unified enough to promise a company that solid 300-400K. Look at Darkfall, a game I'd never touch because it is a sandbox, but it is full loot pvp. Not my kind of game, though I wish those who enjoy it well and I hope they get more games like it. Then you have a game like SWG at launch which in many ways was a crafters dream, it had other sandbox elements that appealed highly to rpers as well, but the main complaints was "where is the game" there wasn't much to do not even a good system in place for PvP. Then there are games like ArchAge, which simply turn off Western MMOers because of they are Asian developed and many of those have lost something in translation, both literally and figuratively. 

     

    MMO developers generally want to see as much RoI on their money as possible, so they try to develop games that will draw in a wider cross-section. Sandboxers are not a threat, the hardcore ones are simply too few for developers to invest money in capturing their hearts. 

  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,654
    Originally posted by Enigmatus
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by Enigmatus
    Originally posted by NorseGod

    You're talking about 1st generation MMO players that see themeparks for what they are. Limited, therefore inferior. The same small group of players that were pushed out like last night's Mexican dinner in favor of millions of  "everyone is a winner" brats.

    That kind of attitude, and you wonder why people are so hostile to sandbox MMO players.

    Both sandbox and themepark have different strengths and weaknesses, but that does not make one superior or inferior to the other; it just means they're different. Maybe if you'd stop acting like everyone who doesn't subscribe to the "Themepark is for brainless degenerates, the only true MMO is sandbox" school of thought is a loser or not a true MMO gamer, then maybe we'd be wiling to take you more seriously.

    [mod edit]

    Wasn't doing that, just saying you should consider not being a dick to those who like Themepark MMOs.

    You locusts hop from game to game and beta to beta, leaving every one of them in ruins before a game even launches. [mod edit]

    I seriously cannot believe that having the balls to make a proper sandbox and putting their foot down to themepark-hoppers is too much to ask.

    Excuse me if I don't shower you with happy thoughts.

     

    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • YakkinYakkin Member Posts: 919
    Originally posted by NorseGod

    Wasn't doing that, just saying you should consider not being a dick to those who like Themepark MMOs.

    You locusts hop from game to game and beta to beta, leaving every one of them in ruins before a game even launches. Then after launch, you whine for more dumb people mechanics, get what you want, and then hop to the next game, leaving everyone else with a pile of crap for simpletons.

    That's like you asking to use my truck for the night, decide you would rather have a convertable, cut off the roof of my truck. You stand there, look at it, then turn around and hand me back my keys. "Meh, I think I'll ride my bicycle instead".

    I seriously cannot believe that having the balls to make a proper sandbox and putting their foot down to themepark-hoppers is too much to ask.

    Excuse me if I don't shower you with happy thoughts.

     

    Where did I ever say I wanted any of that? I was only stating that you could stand to be less of an ass to people who like Themepark MMOs, and you act like I just shot your dog and throw all of these insults and BS at my face. Secondly, I'm not a locust, and I never have been. Also I've never used the official forums of ANY MMO.

  • PresbytierPresbytier Member UncommonPosts: 424
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by Enigmatus
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by Enigmatus
    Originally posted by NorseGod

    You're talking about 1st generation MMO players that see themeparks for what they are. Limited, therefore inferior. The same small group of players that were pushed out like last night's Mexican dinner in favor of millions of  "everyone is a winner" brats.

    That kind of attitude, and you wonder why people are so hostile to sandbox MMO players.

    Both sandbox and themepark have different strengths and weaknesses, but that does not make one superior or inferior to the other; it just means they're different. Maybe if you'd stop acting like everyone who doesn't subscribe to the "Themepark is for brainless degenerates, the only true MMO is sandbox" school of thought is a loser or not a true MMO gamer, then maybe we'd be wiling to take you more seriously.

    Oh, you must think I'm asking you for your damn permission for a sandbox MMO, how cute.

    Wasn't doing that, just saying you should consider not being a dick to those who like Themepark MMOs.

    You locusts hop from game to game and beta to beta, leaving every one of them in ruins before a game even launches. Then after launch, you whine for more dumb people mechanics, get what you want, and then hop to the next game, leaving everyone else with a pile of crap for simpletons.

    That's like you asking to use my truck for the night, decide you would rather have a convertable, cut off the roof of my truck. You stand there, look at it, then turn around and hand me back my keys. "Meh, I think I'll ride my bicycle instead".

    I seriously cannot believe that having the balls to make a proper sandbox and putting their foot down to themepark-hoppers is too much to ask.

    Excuse me if I don't shower you with happy thoughts.

     

    It really looks like someone needs to be showered in happy thoughts. here is the thing: most gamers(dare I make a generalization) want to find that one game that really engages them; unfortunately many times (as I see it) what they find is the same thing re-hashed over and over. This is not a problem exclusive to MMORPG this is something infecting the entire gaming industry. Gone are the days where developers would try something new and different just for the sake of something different. Right now the entire gaming industry is going through a "molting phase" for lack of a better term and only time will tell if it turns out to be a butterfly or a moth.

    "Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood
    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson

  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,654
    Originally posted by Leoghan
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by Presbytier
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by Enigmatus
    Originally posted by NorseGod

    There are over 8 billion people in the world i think it is mighty big enough for fans of both types of games, and even the hybrid types like myself.

    Yet, a group of 300K-400K is a threat to the millions.

    Where do you get that sandboxers are a threat? The reality is that sandboxers (and to an extant I consider myself one) are not unified enough to promise a company that solid 300-400K. Look at Darkfall, a game I'd never touch because it is a sandbox, but it is full loot pvp. Not my kind of game, though I wish those who enjoy it well and I hope they get more games like it. Then you have a game like SWG at launch which in many ways was a crafters dream, it had other sandbox elements that appealed highly to rpers as well, but the main complaints was "where is the game" there wasn't much to do not even a good system in place for PvP. Then there are games like ArchAge, which simply turn off Western MMOers because of they are Asian developed and many of those have lost something in translation, both literally and figuratively. 

     

    MMO developers generally want to see as much RoI on their money as possible, so they try to develop games that will draw in a wider cross-section. Sandboxers are not a threat, the hardcore ones are simply too few for developers to invest money in capturing their hearts. 

    I've been saying all along that sandboxes are not a threat to the millions of themepark-hoppers and their monthly themepark releases. You don't need to convince me of this.

    Nobody that is asking for a properly funded and supported sandbox is delusioned with the hopes of millions of players. Search all the threads on this topic. None of us have stated that. It's the others that bring out the torches each time.

    EQ had 450K players. It was a damn good MMORPG until it started competing for millions. SWG was too, until it started competing for millions. EVE continues to do well without approval of the masses. I love CCP stance of "We'll never change for your kind, gtfo".

    How many "MMOs" are listed on this site? How many of those would complain if they had 450K players? 2/3rds? More? I bet Bioware wished they had 450K loyal and dedicated players. Remember that company?

    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,654
    Originally posted by Enigmatus
    Originally posted by NorseGod

     

    Where did I ever say I wanted any of that? I was only stating that you could stand to be less of an ass to people who like Themepark MMOs, and you act like I just shot your dog and throw all of these insults and BS at my face. Secondly, I'm not a locust, and I never have been. Also I've never used the official forums of ANY MMO.

    Ok then. So, nothing I have said applies to you. I never stated your name. Um, why are you even talking to me?

    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • LeoghanLeoghan Member Posts: 607
    Originally posted by Presbytier
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by Enigmatus
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by Enigmatus
    Originally posted by NorseGod

    You're talking about 1st generation MMO players that see themeparks for what they are. Limited, therefore inferior. The same small group of players that were pushed out like last night's Mexican dinner in favor of millions of  "everyone is a winner" brats.

    That kind of attitude, and you wonder why people are so hostile to sandbox MMO players.

    Both sandbox and themepark have different strengths and weaknesses, but that does not make one superior or inferior to the other; it just means they're different. Maybe if you'd stop acting like everyone who doesn't subscribe to the "Themepark is for brainless degenerates, the only true MMO is sandbox" school of thought is a loser or not a true MMO gamer, then maybe we'd be wiling to take you more seriously.

    Oh, you must think I'm asking you for your damn permission for a sandbox MMO, how cute.

    Wasn't doing that, just saying you should consider not being a dick to those who like Themepark MMOs.

    You locusts hop from game to game and beta to beta, leaving every one of them in ruins before a game even launches. Then after launch, you whine for more dumb people mechanics, get what you want, and then hop to the next game, leaving everyone else with a pile of crap for simpletons.

    That's like you asking to use my truck for the night, decide you would rather have a convertable, cut off the roof of my truck. You stand there, look at it, then turn around and hand me back my keys. "Meh, I think I'll ride my bicycle instead".

    I seriously cannot believe that having the balls to make a proper sandbox and putting their foot down to themepark-hoppers is too much to ask.

    Excuse me if I don't shower you with happy thoughts.

     

    It really looks like someone needs to be showered in happy thoughts. here is the thing: most gamers(dare I make a generalization) want to find that one game that really engages them; unfortunately many times (as I see it) what they find is the same thing re-hashed over and over. This is not a problem exclusive to MMORPG this is something infecting the entire gaming industry. Gone are the days where developers would try something new and different just for the sake of something different. Right now the entire gaming industry is going through a "molting phase" for lack of a better term and only time will tell if it turns out to be a butterfly or a moth.

    I've often looked at it a little differently. Gaming and MMO's more recently are going through a commercialization process. Think of hamburgers. Their origins now shrouded in mystery, but once they were the provence of local mom and pop type establishments (I think of MUDs in this respect) then came the car hops and burger joints that tried to bring in a larger crowd (think UO, EQ).

    Then came McDonalds and the like, now in todays culutre we frown on McDonalds and for good reason, but when they first started expanding and dotting the American landscape they offered something that was missing from the previous burger experience - a dependable burger. You could count on McDonalds burgers to have a certain standard and quality, not something that could be said for every burger joint out there at the time and this made the burger a house hold name. This is what WoW did, for better or worse (I tend to think a little of both). 

    Now the growth and dominance of McDonalds has come to produce a lower quality product, it has been homogenized to the point of no longer satisfying most burger enthusiasts tastes. Furthermore it has sparked many an imitator, some that some people argue do it better than McDonalds (taste is always subjective). This too is WoW, it is so large and so successful, that it can lower that standards of its quality because there is a quality in and of itself to "over a billion server". 

    Now McDonalds didn't kill the burger and the commercialization and widespread distribution of chain burger joints didn't mean that it was the end of good mom and pop joints, it thinned the herd no doubt, but many survived or new ones sprung up. MMO's though not as ubiquitous as burgers are going through a similar process, we may even see crazy new things like avacodos on our MMO's but will still see good and bad ones come and go. 

  • YakkinYakkin Member Posts: 919
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by Enigmatus
    Originally posted by NorseGod

     

    Where did I ever say I wanted any of that? I was only stating that you could stand to be less of an ass to people who like Themepark MMOs, and you act like I just shot your dog and throw all of these insults and BS at my face. Secondly, I'm not a locust, and I never have been. Also I've never used the official forums of ANY MMO.

    Ok then. So, nothing I have said applies to you. I never stated your name. Um, why are you even talking to me?

    Well you were responding to my posts, thus I assumed you were talking about me in addition to those I was referring to in my posts.

  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    IMO the next successful "generation" of MMOs will be a mixture of our current combat oriented goal based adventuring, sandbox building tools (house, town, dungeons/scenerios) naturally occurring game world and finally social game tools.

    The amount of people playing social games makes MMORPGs look like Yatzee Online. The ironic part is why those types of community building social aspects did not evolve along with the graphics and quest systems have. I'm not saying that's why MMOs have gone stale lately but it's one of the reasons IMO.

    The first company to release a quality game that pulls social gamers over will finally see the WoW numbers the clones never got.
  • UWNVMEUWNVME Member UncommonPosts: 174
    Originally posted by Lazzaro

    No innovation, almost every BIG MMO wants to copy WOW for the cash money.

    And then Arena Net tries something different with GW2 and you guys complain because it's now too different from WoW.

  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,654
    Originally posted by Leoghan
    Originally posted by Presbytier
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by Enigmatus
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by Enigmatus
    Originally posted by NorseGod

    I've often looked at it a little differently. Gaming and MMO's more recently are going through a commercialization process. Think of hamburgers. Their origins now shrouded in mystery, but once they were the provence of local mom and pop type establishments (I think of MUDs in this respect) then came the car hops and burger joints that tried to bring in a larger crowd (think UO, EQ).

    Then came McDonalds and the like, now in todays culutre we frown on McDonalds and for good reason, but when they first started expanding and dotting the American landscape they offered something that was missing from the previous burger experience - a dependable burger. You could count on McDonalds burgers to have a certain standard and quality, not something that could be said for every burger joint out there at the time and this made the burger a house hold name. This is what WoW did, for better or worse (I tend to think a little of both). 

    Now the growth and dominance of McDonalds has come to produce a lower quality product, it has been homogenized to the point of no longer satisfying most burger enthusiasts tastes. Furthermore it has sparked many an imitator, some that some people argue do it better than McDonalds (taste is always subjective). This too is WoW, it is so large and so successful, that it can lower that standards of its quality because there is a quality in and of itself to "over a billion server". 

    Now McDonalds didn't kill the burger and the commercialization and widespread distribution of chain burger joints didn't mean that it was the end of good mom and pop joints, it thinned the herd no doubt, but many survived or new ones sprung up. MMO's though not as ubiquitous as burgers are going through a similar process, we may even see crazy new things like avacodos on our MMO's but will still see good and bad ones come and go. 

    Not to derail your good post, but I have to tell you.

    While I was reading that, I was thinking, "but I hate McDonalds and the people that eat there. I just want 1 Rubios in my city."

    Now I'm hungry for fish tacos and can't stop thinking about it. Too bad the nearest Rubios is a 6 hour flight away.

    Curse you, sir!

    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • PsyMike3dPsyMike3d Member UncommonPosts: 388
    Every few months, for years, the same themepark is released with a different skin. That's great. Good for the themepark-hoppers. But, why is it too much to ask for a properly funded and supported sandbox to come out every once in awhile?

    Sandboxes don't even need to come out every other month like they HAVE TO with themeparks. Sandboxes required years of play time to develope your character. A character that was actually important than some people's families (Evercrack, Everquest Widows, etc.).

    Yes, I know, profits. But you know, there was a time when games were made by gamers. There was a time when stock prices were not quoted on gaming sites. Those days also happen to be the time when people played the same game for years because they loved playing the game that much.

     

    tottaly agree!

  • VincerKadenVincerKaden Member UncommonPosts: 457

    My opinion: the future of MMOs lies with player-created content using developer-made tools.

    Development studios would be tasked with making the tools easy for entry-level, but also have advanced screens for hooking those who want to be fully involved.

    A second challenge I'd foresee is making sure that all of the content worked seamlessly.

    Probably a lot more, but I'll just keep my answer simple and short.

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  • magickal32magickal32 Member UncommonPosts: 7

    i dont know about the others here, but ive all but given up on mmo games.  

     

    i started out playing eq1, right around the time when people said it began its decline, around luclin.  i didnt expect much, but man, did i ever fall in love with the game.  i played it on a crappy system, with a 56k modem.  laggy as all crap, but i didnt care.  why?  because i wasnt as picky back then.  we learn as we get older and more experienced, and we learn the things that we like, and dont like.  there were quite a few things about eq1 that i loved, but then, there were some things i didnt like as well.  

    wow enters the arena.  i played from beta and felt that it really took away all that i didnt like about eq1, but kept pretty much everything that i did like.  i played wow too much for me to even admit out loud lol.  over time, even the things that wow brought to the field werent quite enough for me...and many others.  

    now you have many veteran mmo players, like me, who are hopping from game to game looking for the next big thing, but im starting to think its never going to happen.  if it does, it wont be something that people can predict.  

    here are some things id like to see in a game:

    1) never ending character progression.  a system like the AA points in eq1 would be great.  just a reason to do something with your max level toon besides the usual "end game" content that most mmo games provide.  

    2) a nice variety of race and class selection.  this is something where i feel the older games really excelled and the newer games have failed.  nowadays, there are really only 3 character archetypes used in mmo games.  tank, healer, dps.  while games usually have multiple classes within a given archetype, they essentially play the same.  this is something id like to see done away with.  

    3) id like to see characters to be able to do unique things outside of combat.  remember the days of hunting down a cleric for a rez in eq1?  or finding an enchanter for his KEI buff?  not only does this create a purpose for a character besides what they bring to a battle, it creates a hub to find other players, and helps develop a sense of community.  its also really cool to be useful for something to other players.  

    4) how about a change from the grind to level then raid endgame system that most games use?  just listen to the players talk in game.  i hear people in games like wow about how the game doesnt even begin until you hit max level.  why is that?  because those players dont enjoy the leveling and progression process so much, they enjoy the raiding and gear grind.  then you have players like me, who enjoy the leveling and progression, but dont really enjoy the riading and gear grind so much.  that makes me ask, why does a game change at max level?  id like to see a game stay the same throughout.  this touches on my earlier mention of constant progression, even at max level.  id also like to see some raiding at the lower levels too.  

    well, there it is.  i know this is a post about the future of gaming, and not suggestions, but this is the future of gaming id LIKE to see.  do i expect to see any of these things?  not really.  i expect to see games that are more and more focused on combat, with fast progression, and little to do once you reach max level.  i guy can dream though, right?

  • Goatgod76Goatgod76 Member Posts: 1,214
    Originally posted by JWTuna

    Bieng optimistic, a freak tidal wave might crush the venue of whichever the next big gaming event is, decimating the current breed of mmo designers and clearing the way for open-minded independant ventures making clever, niche games and concepts, based on the opinions of gamers. 

     

    Otherwise, the future is bleak indeed. mmo's will continue to be pitched to the lowest common denominator to max revenue, which will mean lower and lower standards. WoW, GW2, Tera, etc...are all designed to attract players to mmos, who shouldnt really be playing mmos. So, as a basic rule the only changes made to mmo structure will be to make playing it simpler and easier. Goodbye charator development and open worlders, because choice and exploration is 'bad'. Hello god mode and auto-matched instances.  

     

    Any ideas that make a game more complex or challenging will be junked. Developing the sandbox element would be great, but this clearly falls under 'making a game more complex'. Wizardry will struggle because permadeath is mentally shattering to maintream audiences. DFUW will struggle, just as DF did, because pvp looting (well, pvp of anykind really) is too scary. And so on, and so forth. 

     

    I hate to say it, but GW2 is the future of MMOs. 

    Look at Vanguard: Saga of Heroes.

    I am currently subbed to it.  I did the beta as well and left because it was going bad with the suits rushing it along and the dev's not listening to the players testing it....but I have played many other MMORPG's. EQ was my first...I'm starting with this  so you see I am not being a fanboy about Vanguard...but personally? And from my own opinion? Vanguard is the best true MMORPG atm.

    HUGE world, non-instanced, TONS of quests, challenging (I have died more times in a couple of months in Vanguard than I have in the last 5 I have played combined), COMMUNITY (Despite being small)....

    Sadly....because of what is mentioned in this quoted section, it was botched and nearly forgotten from being rushed out the door. It is still bug ridden, and due to an older game engine pretty laggy, but since they have gone F2P to lvl 20, and added a cash shop...it is starting to get some love with fixes. Slowly, but it's happening. But even despite these issues, I still have been enjoying it far more ...and have once again been sucked into long hours of playtime..more so than any of the current ones on the market.

    The stuff now I personally wouldn't call MMORPG's. More glorified console games that happen to have other people running around like  NPC's.

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