Originally posted by Kilawua Alright, thanks a lot. And I wont need to replace the power supply right out of the box? People have been saying that a lot.
It depends on what you get. If you buy a prebuilt with a piece of junk power supply, then you should replace it right away. If you go to a site that lets you get something built to order and pick out a good quality power supply the first time, then there's no need to replace it--and this also saves you from having to pay for the cheap junk power supply in the first place.
Click the link and scroll down to the power supply section. If you choose the "700 Watts - Standard Power Supply - SLI/CrossFireX Ready", then that's a piece of junk and should be replaced immediately when the computer arrives. There is no such thing as a "standard" power supply, and the reason they won't tell you exactly what it is is that they don't want you to know. That actually brings up a more general point: if a prebuilt computer won't tell you what power supply they're using (exact brand name and model, not just nominal wattage), it's probably because it's junk and they don't want you to know.
If you pay a little bit more and get a Corsair CX430 V2 instead, then as long as you have a suitably low power system, it will have a decent enough power supply when it gets there, with no need to replace it. You might think that 430 W is a lot less than 700 W. But a 430 W power supply that can safely deliver 430 W sure beats a "700 W" power supply for which, if you tried to pull 700 W from it, it would abruptly shut down if you got lucky, and release sparks and smoke if you didn't.
I don't think that actually pulling 430 W from a Corsair CX430 V2 is the best idea. But if you get, say, a Radeon HD 7770 video card together with a Trinity APU, the CX430 V2 will have plenty of power and perform well for you.
Actually, I should back up a moment and say what it means for a power supply to perform well. A power supply pulls in around 120 V, 60 Hz alternating current from the wall. It has to convert that to +12 V, +5 V, and +3.3 V direct current that the computer components actually want. But power supplies never deliver the exact voltages that components want. If a power supply is supposed to send a voltage of 12 volts on the +12 V rail and actually sends 12.1 V, that's pretty good. 11.5 V isn't so good.
Furthermore, the voltage changes as the load does. If a power supply sends 12.1 V at low loads, and that slowly decreases to 11.9 V at full load, that's reasonably good. If a power supply delivers 12.1 V at low loads and 11.5 V at full load, that's rather bad. The latter will put a lot more stress on other components in your system, which tends to cause them to fail more quickly.
And voltages don't just change with the load, either. They also osciallate a fair bit, so that the voltage one microsecond won't be the same as the next. If a power supply sends an average load of 12.1 V, but that's really bouncing back and forth between 12.09 V and 12.11 V, that's pretty good. If the 12.1 V average means bouncing around between 12.03 V and 12.17 V, that's running out of spec and runs a serious risk of damaging your hardware.
There's also the issue of energy efficiency. In order to convert voltages, a power supply has to pull more power from the wall than it sends on to other computer components. The difference in power is converted to heat and is wasted energy. In order to deliver 200 W to other components in the system, a Corsair CX430 V2 would need to pull about 240 W from the wall. The 700 W "standard" power supply would likely need to pull about 300 W from the wall. A really high end power supply like the Kingwin Lazer Platinum 550 W would only need to pull about 220 W.
Higher energy efficiency reduces your electricity bill, and is a good reason to avoid low end power supplies, even apart from the risk of frying your hardware. But there are diminishing returns to energy efficiency, and buying a power supply that is high end as opposed to merely reasonably good won't pay for itself in reduced energy costs, unless perhaps you're running a data center putting a heavy load on the power supply around the clock, and putting out so much heat that you spend more on air conditioning to keep the room with hundreds of servers cool (or rather, only somewhat hot) than you do to power them in the first place.
Originally posted by Kilawua Thanks for trying to help me out on the build-your-own idea. But I really haven't ever owned a computer, and i think it would be good to have some experience with a desktop and upgrading it before trying to build one straight away. :P
Suppose that you buy a prebuilt computer. What would you do with it when it arrived? Monitors, keyboards, mice, speakers, ethernet cables, power cords, and so forth don't magically plug themselves in, you know.
You might think, well, I'd plug them in, of course. But if you can plug in the various components outside of the case, then why can't you do the same inside of the case? The motherboard and case will come with very detailed instructions, and all you hav to do is to follow the directions.
Furthermore, different slots and sockets are all different shapes and sizes. If you're not mechanically savvy enough to understand the idea of putting a square peg in a square hole and a round peg in a round hole, as opposed to the other way around, then maybe you shouldn't try building your own. But that's about the level of difficulty of assembly, unless you have to deal with the infernal push pins to mount a CPU heatsink on an Intel processor socket. (AMD's "get it kind of close and then flip a bar" mounting mechanism is much easier to deal with, and it doesn't matter if it's the heatsink is slightly crooked or off-center when it's done.) If you ignore the instructions and plug everything in where it fits, there are a few places where performance won't be optimal, and you likely won't manage to properly connect the motherboard to the power switch on the case. But that's about all that can go wrong, and easily fixable by reading the instructions.
Buying a custom-built computer makes sense for people who have a lot of money but not a lot of time, and value their time more than their money. But such people tend to have a lot larger budgets than you.
It has the most parts that are acceptable...I think. :P I'm just looking to play middle of the line games, graphics wise.
Can't I replace the parts with a trinity if it turns out to be phenomenal, like you said?
No, you can't. It's a different motherboard socket. You might be able to upgrade the processor to Vishera instead, but that would require a BIOS update that may or may not be forthcoming, given the ancient chipset that it uses. But paying for a $160 processor up front and then planning on replacing it later is a waste of money. Between a cheap junk power supply and a cheap junk motherboard, if you buy that and it fries in a year, you'll have gotten what you paid for.
So if I wait a little bit, will Cyberpower or IBuyPower or whatever, have an acceptable computer I can get? I really don't want to build my own. Since I can't say I can't build my own to you. :P Haha
Originally posted by Kilawua So if I wait a little bit, will Cyberpower or IBuyPower or whatever, have an acceptable computer I can get? I really don't want to build my own. Since I can't say I can't build my own to you. :P Haha
Probably. I think AVA Direct's business model consists of listing parts on New Egg or Amazon or whatever, ordering them off the site when you place an order, screwing them together, and then shipping them to you, so they have no reason to delay. In the past, Cyber Power PC and iBuyPower have commonly put new platforms up as available for order on the day that parts launched. HP is usually pretty quick at adopting AMD processors, though they probably won't let you get a reasonable configuration for a gaming system.
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"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
It depends on what you get. If you buy a prebuilt with a piece of junk power supply, then you should replace it right away. If you go to a site that lets you get something built to order and pick out a good quality power supply the first time, then there's no need to replace it--and this also saves you from having to pay for the cheap junk power supply in the first place.
Let's give an example:
http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/AMD_Quad_Core_Configurator/
Click the link and scroll down to the power supply section. If you choose the "700 Watts - Standard Power Supply - SLI/CrossFireX Ready", then that's a piece of junk and should be replaced immediately when the computer arrives. There is no such thing as a "standard" power supply, and the reason they won't tell you exactly what it is is that they don't want you to know. That actually brings up a more general point: if a prebuilt computer won't tell you what power supply they're using (exact brand name and model, not just nominal wattage), it's probably because it's junk and they don't want you to know.
If you pay a little bit more and get a Corsair CX430 V2 instead, then as long as you have a suitably low power system, it will have a decent enough power supply when it gets there, with no need to replace it. You might think that 430 W is a lot less than 700 W. But a 430 W power supply that can safely deliver 430 W sure beats a "700 W" power supply for which, if you tried to pull 700 W from it, it would abruptly shut down if you got lucky, and release sparks and smoke if you didn't.
I don't think that actually pulling 430 W from a Corsair CX430 V2 is the best idea. But if you get, say, a Radeon HD 7770 video card together with a Trinity APU, the CX430 V2 will have plenty of power and perform well for you.
Actually, I should back up a moment and say what it means for a power supply to perform well. A power supply pulls in around 120 V, 60 Hz alternating current from the wall. It has to convert that to +12 V, +5 V, and +3.3 V direct current that the computer components actually want. But power supplies never deliver the exact voltages that components want. If a power supply is supposed to send a voltage of 12 volts on the +12 V rail and actually sends 12.1 V, that's pretty good. 11.5 V isn't so good.
Furthermore, the voltage changes as the load does. If a power supply sends 12.1 V at low loads, and that slowly decreases to 11.9 V at full load, that's reasonably good. If a power supply delivers 12.1 V at low loads and 11.5 V at full load, that's rather bad. The latter will put a lot more stress on other components in your system, which tends to cause them to fail more quickly.
And voltages don't just change with the load, either. They also osciallate a fair bit, so that the voltage one microsecond won't be the same as the next. If a power supply sends an average load of 12.1 V, but that's really bouncing back and forth between 12.09 V and 12.11 V, that's pretty good. If the 12.1 V average means bouncing around between 12.03 V and 12.17 V, that's running out of spec and runs a serious risk of damaging your hardware.
There's also the issue of energy efficiency. In order to convert voltages, a power supply has to pull more power from the wall than it sends on to other computer components. The difference in power is converted to heat and is wasted energy. In order to deliver 200 W to other components in the system, a Corsair CX430 V2 would need to pull about 240 W from the wall. The 700 W "standard" power supply would likely need to pull about 300 W from the wall. A really high end power supply like the Kingwin Lazer Platinum 550 W would only need to pull about 220 W.
Higher energy efficiency reduces your electricity bill, and is a good reason to avoid low end power supplies, even apart from the risk of frying your hardware. But there are diminishing returns to energy efficiency, and buying a power supply that is high end as opposed to merely reasonably good won't pay for itself in reduced energy costs, unless perhaps you're running a data center putting a heavy load on the power supply around the clock, and putting out so much heat that you spend more on air conditioning to keep the room with hundreds of servers cool (or rather, only somewhat hot) than you do to power them in the first place.
I think I'm going to end up going with this one, I guess. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883227408&nm_mc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r&cm_mmc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r-_-Desktop+PC-_-iBUYPOWER-_-83227408
It has the most parts that are acceptable...I think. :P I'm just looking to play middle of the line games, graphics wise.
Can't I replace the parts with a trinity if it turns out to be phenomenal, like you said?
Suppose that you buy a prebuilt computer. What would you do with it when it arrived? Monitors, keyboards, mice, speakers, ethernet cables, power cords, and so forth don't magically plug themselves in, you know.
You might think, well, I'd plug them in, of course. But if you can plug in the various components outside of the case, then why can't you do the same inside of the case? The motherboard and case will come with very detailed instructions, and all you hav to do is to follow the directions.
Furthermore, different slots and sockets are all different shapes and sizes. If you're not mechanically savvy enough to understand the idea of putting a square peg in a square hole and a round peg in a round hole, as opposed to the other way around, then maybe you shouldn't try building your own. But that's about the level of difficulty of assembly, unless you have to deal with the infernal push pins to mount a CPU heatsink on an Intel processor socket. (AMD's "get it kind of close and then flip a bar" mounting mechanism is much easier to deal with, and it doesn't matter if it's the heatsink is slightly crooked or off-center when it's done.) If you ignore the instructions and plug everything in where it fits, there are a few places where performance won't be optimal, and you likely won't manage to properly connect the motherboard to the power switch on the case. But that's about all that can go wrong, and easily fixable by reading the instructions.
Buying a custom-built computer makes sense for people who have a lot of money but not a lot of time, and value their time more than their money. But such people tend to have a lot larger budgets than you.
No, you can't. It's a different motherboard socket. You might be able to upgrade the processor to Vishera instead, but that would require a BIOS update that may or may not be forthcoming, given the ancient chipset that it uses. But paying for a $160 processor up front and then planning on replacing it later is a waste of money. Between a cheap junk power supply and a cheap junk motherboard, if you buy that and it fries in a year, you'll have gotten what you paid for.
Just be patient and wait a few days.
Probably. I think AVA Direct's business model consists of listing parts on New Egg or Amazon or whatever, ordering them off the site when you place an order, screwing them together, and then shipping them to you, so they have no reason to delay. In the past, Cyber Power PC and iBuyPower have commonly put new platforms up as available for order on the day that parts launched. HP is usually pretty quick at adopting AMD processors, though they probably won't let you get a reasonable configuration for a gaming system.