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Come on already, we need a true mmo !!!

delete5230delete5230 Posts: 2,963Member Uncommon

What we need is an old school mmo.  In other words we need an mmo that is hard.

 

 We DON'T need.  Dungeon finders, cross realm nothing,Dynamic events with auto group, story telling that other social people can't get involved,cinematic that pulls players away from the game for 3  minutes when in groups....This stuff is bull crap...Bottom line.

 

We DO need.  A somewhat hard mmo.  One that relays on the guy next to you having a hard time soloing too.  A game that joining a guild means something, and helps the players progress as a team.  Make a friend that you click with?....Add him to your friends list....It's all about survival in a hard world.

 

SOMETHING THAT MAKES YOUR HART POUND, BUT WITH FRIENDS,IT CAN BE DONE.  This is an mmo !....I don't know what you call all this crap we have now.  GuildWars 2 in a nice game.  Well made, tons of features.  BUTT is still a  disappointment as a sociable mmo.  It's too easy, no chatting, no social, no guild or friends dependent.  It's almost hard to call it an mmo depending on how you look at it ( yes and no ).

I for one would like ( my opinion ) An old school mmo with no auto features, yet nice graphics.  An mmo where the developers promise to not ever screw it up and make it easy mode.  A game where developers can concentrate on making the world larger, more exploration, more dungeons and raids . Always working on coding to make the game run better.  What I would like to see ( my opinion ) is the opposite of SWTOR, with its shallow game play yet a bunch of crap cintamatics and cut seens that takes away from grouping and game play.

 

NOW THIS IS IMPORTANT :

People here will bash anyone that brings up old school here on mmorpg.com.  BUT understand this:

What we have now is something other than true mmo's, mixed in with mmo's.  New people are here on this site.  I would guess half like auto everything solo based games with others around them, and half would like a social dependent hard mmo.

It would be nice to separate the distinction between the two and call one something different.  However, we no longer have true mmos so maybe there is no point in doing this.

 

What we have now are 30 day fun to play games.

 Without social dependence there is no reason to log in day after day, month after month, year after year.....Community is what keeps players playing.  For me, once I learn all the thousands of features of this newer style of mmo's I get tired of it.  But if you add a very social dependent environment I could play for years,but thats for me, how about you?

There is a market for old school,Why did things even change ?.....I know ! World of Warcraft changed there formula to easy mode,NO ONE ASKED FOR THIS, BLIZZARD DID THIS ON THERE OWN. Now every mmo follows the big dog,because they think this is what players all like......Did your game go F2P ?

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Comments

  • UtukuMoonUtukuMoon ParisPosts: 1,066Member

    Their is one but you are obviously not playing it.

    Vanguard is not quite as harsh as EQ but it really isn't a walk in the park,it's a thinking mans old time MMO.It also has a vast non instanced world which has depth and mystery.

  • immodiumimmodium ManchesterPosts: 1,578Member Uncommon

    It's not so much a game then, but more of a virtual world. Which I would love to see tbh.

    Theres not really been an MMORPG I have played where I have actually cared about the character I have created.

    When I first got into MMORPGs in 2007 with LOTRO, I loved the idea of this living, breathing world I could make a mark in or impact some how. I slowly realised I couldn't and now MMORPG's seem to be getting more action based and cater for people who need instant gratification. They feel more FPS than RPG.

    I missed SWG before it got basterdised by Sony. The Repopulation sounds interesting.

    image
  • worldalphaworldalpha Milton, ONPosts: 403Member
    I agree that MMOs need to have a challenge.  So, that is why I'm developing a challenging MMO RTS, not an RPG, with in-depth economy, military and politics modules.  Check out WorldAlpha.

    Thanks,
    Mike
    Working on Social Strategy MMORTS (now Launched!) http://www.worldalpha.com

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,000Member Uncommon

    Yeah, sure, I'm with you, more of a virtual world, more of a challenge, more socialization mechanics etc etc.

    Along with you and me and perhaps 500K of our friends it still isn't enough of an audience to encourage a AAA developer to sink 100M plus into such a design, so don't get your hopes up.

    What we really need is for a large size indie title to hit the big time, much like CCP did with EVE.

    Which as crazy as it may seem is why I'm going to support DF:UW, despite my misgivings with some of the game mechanics.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,669Member Uncommon

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon

    To the OP...

     

    The majorrity of MMO players is actually very happy with things like dungeon finders, instance quests crossrealm interaction and such

     

     

    So dont say We need, but refer to me and my friends, or even the very lonely I.

     

    When do people like the OP start to realise they are currently a very small minority.

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,000Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Wizardry Online

     

    Didn't realize they were far enough along to offer beta sign-ups, thanks for posting that.

    I'm on the list, let's see what happens.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • delete5230delete5230 Posts: 2,963Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    To the OP...

     

    The majorrity of MMO players is actually very happy with things like dungeon finders, instance quests crossrealm interaction and such

     

     

    So dont say We need, but refer to me and my friends, or even the very lonely I.

     

    When do people like the OP start to realise they are currently a very small minority.

    Well we have true mmo's and we have what we have now. Non social games, lots of features, people next to you but your playing alone. You know, the non-mmo's.

    Maybe you fall into the other than catagory that I was talking about.

    This is more for the mmo player, You know the Multi player type player. 

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,000Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    To the OP...

     

    The majorrity of MMO players is actually very happy with things like dungeon finders, instance quests crossrealm interaction and such

     

     

    So dont say We need, but refer to me and my friends, or even the very lonely I.

     

    When do people like the OP start to realise they are currently a very small minority.

    If a majority of players are happy with these features, why do they leave most MMO's so quickly.

    What are they looking for to keep them playing for longer than 2-3 months?

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • FondelFondel HelsinkiPosts: 98Member
    Darkfall Unholy Wars anyone?
  • ConnmacartConnmacart OsloPosts: 681Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    To the OP...

     

    The majorrity of MMO players is actually very happy with things like dungeon finders, instance quests crossrealm interaction and such

     

     

    So dont say We need, but refer to me and my friends, or even the very lonely I.

     

    When do people like the OP start to realise they are currently a very small minority.

    If a majority of players are happy with these features, why do they leave most MMO's so quickly.

    What are they looking for to keep them playing for longer than 2-3 months?

     

    You are assuming that they might want to stay longer, for which there is no indication they do.

    To the OP: People can't even agree on what a "true" MMO is. Let alone get one made. 

    The thing I want most in an MMO is a living world and I got that in GW2 at the moment. Is there room for improvement, yes, but I'm more than satisfied for now. 

  • austriacusaustriacus limaPosts: 624Member
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    To the OP...

     

    The majorrity of MMO players is actually very happy with things like dungeon finders, instance quests crossrealm interaction and such

     

     

    So dont say We need, but refer to me and my friends, or even the very lonely I.

     

    When do people like the OP start to realise they are currently a very small minority.

    If a majority of players are happy with these features, why do they leave most MMO's so quickly.

    What are they looking for to keep them playing for longer than 2-3 months?

     

    Thats the thing, they are not looking for anything to hook them up for years. I though this was clear already.

  • Ghost12Ghost12 Boston, MAPosts: 684Member
    Originally posted by austriacus
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    To the OP...

     

    The majorrity of MMO players is actually very happy with things like dungeon finders, instance quests crossrealm interaction and such

     

     

    So dont say We need, but refer to me and my friends, or even the very lonely I.

     

    When do people like the OP start to realise they are currently a very small minority.

    If a majority of players are happy with these features, why do they leave most MMO's so quickly.

    What are they looking for to keep them playing for longer than 2-3 months?

     

    Thats the thing, they are not looking for anything to hook them up for years. I though this was clear already.

     

    None of us are. When we pick up a game, we arent "looking" for a game to play for years. It just happens.

  • David_LopanDavid_Lopan Madison, WIPosts: 808Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sylvarii

    Their is one but you are obviously not playing it.

    Vanguard is not quite as harsh as EQ but it really isn't a walk in the park,it's a thinking mans old time MMO.It also has a vast non instanced world which has depth and mystery.

      +1

  • LowcaianLowcaian NsjoPosts: 265Member

    The ADD mindset is too strong now. The majority no longer want to find a home, they want fast food. After 2 weeks they come here and post "I'm booored" Look at any gaming forum, be it mmorpgs or singleplayer games. People start discussing the sequel before the game has even launched.

    Yet when some game tries to do something new they don't like it either because it doesn't conform exactly to their image of what a game should be. It doesn't even have to be gamebreaking issues, just annoying details.

    It's over.

     

    image
  • EvelknievelEvelknievel Ehrenfeld, PAPosts: 2,977Member
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    To the OP...

     

    The majorrity of MMO players is actually very happy with things like dungeon finders, instance quests crossrealm interaction and such

     

     

    So dont say We need, but refer to me and my friends, or even the very lonely I.

     

    When do people like the OP start to realise they are currently a very small minority.

     

    No offense LB, but whether a minority of players that want a mmorpg and not another candyland themepark lobby mmo, we are out here waiting for a real immersive, persistent and econmic player driven world.

    I too am tired of these mmo's that last only for a month or two of interest. Folks like you that like the mmo's we got now, thats good for you, we just don't need another mmo that will follow the same mindless formula.

  • zakiyawowzakiyawow Boston, MAPosts: 626Member Common
    Originally posted by delete5230

    What we need is an old school mmo.  In other words we need an mmo that is hard.

     

     We DON'T need.  Dungeon finders, cross realm nothing,Dynamic events with auto group, story telling that other social people can't get involved,cinematic that pulls players away from the game for 3  minutes when in groups....This stuff is bull crap...Bottom line.

     

    We DO need.  A somewhat hard mmo.  One that relays on the guy next to you having a hard time soloing too.  A game that joining a guild means something, and helps the players progress as a team.  Make a friend that you click with?....Add him to your friends list....It's all about survival in a hard world.

    How do you define "Hard" ?

    SOMETHING THAT MAKES YOUR HART POUND, BUT WITH FRIENDS,IT CAN BE DONE.  This is an mmo !....I don't know what you call all this crap we have now.  GuildWars 2 in a nice game.  Well made, tons of features.  BUTT is still a  disappointment as a sociable mmo.  It's too easy, no chatting, no social, no guild or friends dependent.  It's almost hard to call it an mmo depending on how you look at it ( yes and no ).

    There is nothing to stop you from chatting and social in current game. You can still depend on your guild and friends if you so choose. Just hanging out with guild and friends are social activity too.

     

     

    I for one would like ( my opinion ) An old school mmo with no auto features, yet nice graphics.  An mmo where the developers promise to not ever screw it up and make it easy mode.  A game where developers can concentrate on making the world larger, more exploration, more dungeons and raids . Always working on coding to make the game run better.  What I would like to see ( my opinion ) is the opposite of SWTOR, with its shallow game play yet a bunch of crap cintamatics and cut seens that takes away from grouping and game play.

    Money talks wether you like it or not. If there are a huge demand, you bet there will be changes.

     

    NOW THIS IS IMPORTANT :

    People here will bash anyone that brings up old school here on mmorpg.com.  BUT understand this:

    What we have now is something other than true mmo's, mixed in with mmo's.  New people are here on this site.  I would guess half like auto everything solo based games with others around them, and half would like a social dependent hard mmo.

    It would be nice to separate the distinction between the two and call one something different.  However, we no longer have true mmos so maybe there is no point in doing this.

     

    What we have now are 30 day fun to play games.

     Without social dependence there is no reason to log in day after day, month after month, year after year.....Community is what keeps players playing.  For me, once I learn all the thousands of features of this newer style of mmo's I get tired of it.  But if you add a very social dependent environment I could play for years,but thats for me, how about you?

    There is a market for old school,Why did things even change ?.....I know ! World of Warcraft changed there formula to easy mode,NO ONE ASKED FOR THIS, BLIZZARD DID THIS ON THERE OWN. Now every mmo follows the big dog,because they think this is what players all like......Did your game go F2P ?

    There is a market for sure. Just not big enough for AAA developer and investor. As someone metioned, unless there is a indie sleeper hit, it will not change.

     

     

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,453Member Uncommon

    If you played FFXi the old school way and it is totally possible even with all the changes,it would be 10x harder than the hardest game you ever played.

    No hand holding,no markers,no free xp for doing simple quests.

    better yet try not using the internet for  answers,this is the way i had to play this game on launch,no other game came even close and i plaeyd all the major titles.Oh yes and even though there is a lot of level caps removed,try and play it at the level caps we had to follow,i bet LOTS of DEATh !.

    this was a TRUE MMO,built around grouping and team work.Getting content done was very tough and felt reqarding just because of the effort needed.Other games you follow quests around with no care about any of them,just a simple "Where is the next marker to follow?".

     

    IMO people don't want a true MMO,they want fast easy rewards ,nothing too difficult to play.


    Samoan Diamond

  • MukeMuke BredaPosts: 2,172Member Uncommon
    go play EVE.

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • GreenishBlueGreenishBlue Baltimore, MDPosts: 263Member
    OP's statements about GW2 are false. Whoever plays GW2 knows why. If the OP is looking for an old school MMO, well, there are a couple of old school MMOs still running. I guess OP is looking for games like Darkfall and Mortal Online. Perhaps he is not aware of those games.

    image
  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,000Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by austriacus
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    To the OP...

     

    The majorrity of MMO players is actually very happy with things like dungeon finders, instance quests crossrealm interaction and such

     

     

    So dont say We need, but refer to me and my friends, or even the very lonely I.

     

    When do people like the OP start to realise they are currently a very small minority.

    If a majority of players are happy with these features, why do they leave most MMO's so quickly.

    What are they looking for to keep them playing for longer than 2-3 months?

     

    Thats the thing, they are not looking for anything to hook them up for years. I though this was clear already.

    Yeah, I guess you're correct, the majority of the modern MMO playerbase treats these as single player experiences, to be set aside in a short period of time.  I keep forgetting this.

    Folks looking for a longer term experience are in the minority now, but theres' still some of us out there hoping for complex and engaging content that will keep us playing for some time to come.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • SeelinnikoiSeelinnikoi LONDONPosts: 661Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Wizardry Online

     

    "Thirty years in the making, Wizardry Online is a Free to Play, hardcore fantasy MMORPG."

     

    Bwahahaha! Are they serious?

  • smh_alotsmh_alot Area 51Posts: 976Member
    People like to forget that a lot of new mechanics and features were introduced as a solution for old problems and annoyances.

    - Old school MMO gamers started to detest mob grinding for leveling. That's why MMO's like EQ2 and WoW introduced quest based leveling and advertised it.

    - Old school MMO gamers started to get fed up with enforced grouping and sometimes hour(s) long waits to do anything fun, so solo based leveling got expanded upon.

    - Harsh death penalties, long travel times, even if they helped give that vibe of a dangerous, vast world, there was a reason that they were gotten rid of in follow-up MMO's, and that's because a lot of the old school MMO gamers disliked them.

    - Old school MMO gamers weren't happy with spot camping especially in dungeons, so instanced dungeons were introduced, all to yourself and your group.


    You can get rid of those features, from quests to instanced dungeons etc, but they were introduced as solutions to problems that people had in the first place, and they were received with relief and satisfaction by old school MMO gamers when these features first got introduced.

    If the issues with the old mechanics weren't regarded as annoyances and problems in the first place, those new features would never have been introduced and happily welcomed by (a very large part of) that first generation of MMO gamers in the first place.


    So I wonder how an MMO that got rid of all those features again and is made like an oldschool MMO will truly do, and if the first generation MMO gamers that are now pining for such an MMO would be happy or if they'd realize how much they disliked those issues and annoyances for which a lot of later features were one possible solution for. AFter all, MMO games like Vanguard or the EQ classic servers that take you back to that oldschool MMO gaming were minimally successful as well.
  • deffbeedeffbee brooklyn, NYPosts: 12Member
    What's the use all that is going to happen is people will speed through content, and then complain that there is nothing else left to do and call it broken.  Maybe this genre needs to just die, because the majority of MMO fans are just too fickle.
  • ZeGermanZeGerman Andover, MAPosts: 196Member Uncommon

    I think your in the wrong genre budy there has never been a legitimately hard MMO.  There have been plenty of games that are stupid and design monster than no matter what you do you have to have a higher level of gear or friends to kill them but that is not difficulty.  

    If you play a hard first person shooter a more talented player could play the last level with the gun you got for the first level and be fine because they are a better player.  But MMORPG combat traditionaly  has never taken any skill only time to build your character. 

    I think this will change about MMO's as combat evolves.  I feel that GW2 still allows all players to do the end game even if a its a little more rough for the baddies but because the combat is dynamic and motion based its come farther than most games towards skill based combat.   But this idea that MMO's used to be hard is just bullshit, all the older MMO's like Diablo 2, EQ and AO simply took hardcore gamers not skill.  Most average players could play for hundreds of hours get geared join a guild and face roll everything from their out playing with one hand on their twenty button mouse and the other hand you know where.

     

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