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The time to bring back Sandboxes IS NOW!

Ghost12Ghost12 Boston, MAPosts: 684Member

There is a saying; Only a fool does the same thing over and over again and expects different results.

 

How many big titles did we have after WoW that fell flat on their faces?

 

Remember....

 

+ Warhammer, Age of Reckoning? You know, that game that was gonna “kill WoW”? WAR was going to come out and blow WoW away with its “deep” and “meaningful” PvP/RvR system? And then it came out and was just an inferior version of WoW? Gee wiz, what happened to that game? Whats it running on now, 3 servers?

 

+ Age of Conan? That game from Funcom with awesome graphics, that promised to be a hardcore PvP game? And at the last minute, Funcom wussified the game by watering down the combat system and making it no different than a stroll through Disneyland? I still remember the forums breaking down in absolute rage due to Funcom's lies.

 

+ RIFT? Remember that saying in the trailer video....”We arent in Azeroth anymore”? OH YES TRION, WE'RE STILL IN AZEROTH! 9 MILLION STRONG!

 

+ Aion? That game where you were able to fly around? ….Except that it kinda sucked?

 

And now we have...

 

SWTOR. SWTOR SWTOR SWTOR. Oh man. What a shining example of success. One of the biggest names in the business, Bioware's own Ray Muszyka said in an interview, I believe something along the lines of “It would be foolish to stray away from the WoW model”. Unbelievable. Whelp look what happened. One of the biggest IP's, backed by more than $300,000 million of EA's money, and the game crashed, dubbed, “The Tortanic”. Except that it wasnt really a tragedy. Players complained of a buggy mess of a game with a “boring endgame”. On rails space combat. ON RAILS. IN 2012. IN A AAA GAME! Theres, nothing to do!

 

Guild Wars 2. Now granted, the game just came out. Its supposed to be “innovation”. Dynamic Events ripped straight from the Public Quest system in Warhammer. WvWvW ripped straight from the PvP system from DAOC. And I'll be honest I've played it – its not that great. In fact, ITS SHALLOW AND BORING! YES, I AM CALLING GW2 OUT. ITS BORING. (this is all of course, my opinion)

 

The only thing ArenaNet did right was their propaganda campaign. What a load of baloney. And no, I'm NOT afraid of GW2 gestapo fanboys coming after me. I'm telling you how it is. (or my opinion, whatever makes ya happy)

 

Guess what? Pretty much every big themepark that has come out that has tried to take a “piece of the WoW pie” has pretty much fell flat on their faces. These games are linear, boring, restrictive and shallow. Is this really what we want for a AAA game? I am NOT paying 60$ for GW2. It isnt worth 60$.

 

The whole argument of “sandbox is a small niche, it doesnt work, everyone loves themeparks” IS A LOAD OF BALONEY! If that was the case, wouldnt these games be a bit more successful? Really? 5 years after its release and WAR has 3 or 4 servers? AoC – who plays that game anymore? With every new themepark, a big huge marketing campaign goes off, everyone gets hyped up – until they play the game, and then reality sets in.

If no one cares about sandbox, why do we have a list of sandboxes on the General forum consistently updated?

 

And now here we are....with the announcement of Darkfall Unholy Wars, I believe I have to make some noise.

 

BRING BACK SANDBOX!!! WE WANT SANDBOX!!!

 

WE'VE BEEN WAITING 8 YEARS FOR MORE SANDBOXES. 8 YEARS!

 

BRING IT BACK. SANDBOX IS THE FUTURE.

 

THEMEPARKS ARE THE PAST.

 

The myth of a no sandbox market is a MYTH.

 

What do people find fun? Do you really find the forced, pre-made path of developer made content all that interesting? Do you really find it all that interesting? Do you know that content eventually runs out -as thesr releases have proven? Its limiting AND limited.

 

Or would you rather create content for yourself? Look at how popular Minecraft is. Look at the amazing creations players make. Look at Runescape - a sandbox - one of the most successful sandboxes ever, created in some kid's basement? We, as people, love to create! We love it. And thats what sandbox is all about. That is the essence of sandbox – creating your OWN story. Did you know that line was in the loading screens of the original, beloved SWG?

 

Player made content is the future. It always has been. Creating YOUR OWN game. Your own experience. Give players their freedom back. Give players the freedom to create their own virtual home. Their own virtual business. Give players the freedom to create their own in game art. Give players the freedom to be whoever their alter ego wants to be. This type of content NEVER runs out. Never ever does it run out. it keeps on going on, and on and on.

 

why be forced into one role?

 

Want to be a knight in shining armor? Boom.

 

Want to be a mercenary hunting down other players? Boom.

 

Want to be a dancer, entertaining tired players on the street for some coin? Boom

 

Want to be a leader of a player run corporation? Boom.

 

Want to be an architect, designing other players houses? Boom.

 

Want to be a thief, stealing other players' hard earned cash? Boom!

 

Want to become a politician, managing a player city? Boom.

 

Bring back crafting. Player housing. Player cities. Bring back meaningful PvP. Exciting combat. Bring back skill and classless systems.

 

Enough with the themeparks. We've had 8 years of this crap. I'm willing to pay good money- GOOD MONEY – FOR A GOOD SANDBOX MMO. I'm tired of these shallow, boring WoW clones. Sandbox is the future. Its the modern MMO.

 

Hers is a quote from the beaten down Earthrise developer Masthead studies regarding the state of the Genre:

 

"One year after the launch of the game, we have decided to stop the Earthrise servers. Earthrise was released too early and did not meet the expectations of its fans" said Atanas Atanasov, Director of Masthead Studios. "We did our best to revive the game in 2011, but the time was not enough to keep up with the user requirements. There is a huge interest in high quality open world sandbox MMORPGs, unfortunately the big publishers do not show any interest in the genre. It is unfortunate that low budget companies like ours are trying to bring innovativeness in the already saturated MMO market. I hope that one day an independent studio will be able to release the long anticipated open world sandbox MMO, which everyone is talking about, but no one is making. We tried, but did not succeed. We would like to apologize to those who were disappointed from Earthrise and to thank everyone who supported us during the years."

 

BRING BACK SANDBOX!!! I WANT MY FREEDOM BACK!

 

 

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Comments

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,860Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Ghost12
    There is a saying; Only a fool does the same thing over and over again and expects different results.

    How many sandbox titles did we have after EVE that fell flat on their faces?

  • Ghost12Ghost12 Boston, MAPosts: 684Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Ghost12
    There is a saying; Only a fool does the same thing over and over again and expects different results.

     

     


     

    How many sandbox titles did we have after EVE that fell flat on their faces?

     

    Not many? Compared to the amont of themeparks that came out, that amount is miniscule.

  • Johnie-MarzJohnie-Marz La Puente, CAPosts: 865Member
    Good news, I hear Salem is a sandbox MMO.
  • QuicklyScottQuicklyScott BristolPosts: 433Member

    There's such a huge market for sandboxes.

     

    EVE - (with imo average user unfriendly gameplay) has 500,000 subs

    Runescape - peak 10,000,000 players (over 100,000,000 account created)

    The love for SWG pre nge, UO etc

    The hype for all the terrbily low funded Darkfall, Mortal online etc just because they're sandboxes.

     

    The want is there.

     

    Developers are sitting on a gold mine.  A sandbox needs to be made, for the good of the genre.

    image

  • IndromeIndrome NortheimPosts: 292Member

    I lol'd at title. (edit: Originally it was "The time is bring back sandboxes is now")

    Then I almost completely read the post.

    Then my ears started to ring. Ouch. °O

     

    Stop shouting and relax. Everything returns eventually.

    image

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    I don't agree with everything you said, but I admire your enthusiasm and I would really like to try out a good sandbox one of these days.  Hopefully they're listening.
  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,860Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Ghost12

    Not many? Compared to the amont of themeparks that came out, that amount is miniscule.

    That should give you a hint then...people stop producing games that are not doing well.

  • minime2minime2 cardiffPosts: 113Member
    100% agree +1
  • keenberkeenber galwayPosts: 438Member

    A big yes for more aaa sandbox type mmos but a big no to them haveing nothing but pvp servers. Do it like SWG origanaly was.

    Oh and it has to have a sub although its not as big a problem as a theampark as we shouldnt need constent updates with a sandbox. But i dont want to have to keep paying out for this no fail item when i am crafting cause the fail rate is 70%% like most F2P games .

  • Ghost12Ghost12 Boston, MAPosts: 684Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Ghost12

    Not many? Compared to the amont of themeparks that came out, that amount is miniscule.

     

    That should give you a hint then...people stop producing games that are not doing well.

     

    Right, thats why Runescape a sandbox created in some kid's basement became one of the greatest F2P games of all time.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,860Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Ghost12

    Right, thats why Runescape a sandbox created in some kid's basement became one of the greatest F2P games of all time.

    Problem is, Runescape is no sandbox..

  • Johnie-MarzJohnie-Marz La Puente, CAPosts: 865Member

    I guess I could agree a little, I think there would be a great market for a well made PVE Sandbox game. However when you add open world, full loot, pvp; it turns people off.

     

  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne LondonPosts: 1,420Member

    I totally agree with the OP 100%.

     

    For example, a combination of these would be fantastic:

    > Darkfall's combat + crafting mechanics

    > Minecraft's world generation

    > Eve Online's single server universe

    > Skyrim's graphics

     

    And maybe change the setting to a futuristic fantasy world, a like Warhammer 40k.

     

  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne LondonPosts: 1,420Member
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

    I guess I could agree a little, I think there would be a great market for a well made PVE Sandbox game. However when you add open world, full loot, pvp; it turns people off.

     

    I agree. I think the solution is to have something like Eve, where you have zones.

    However, Eve's PvE isn't good enough to maintain interest, so it's not a perfect example.

  • ApraxisApraxis RegensburgPosts: 1,515Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Ghost12
    There is a saying; Only a fool does the same thing over and over again and expects different results.

     

     


     

    How many sandbox titles did we have after EVE that fell flat on their faces?

    Well.. none. And not even EvE is a AAA mmo. The last sandbox AAA mmo was SWG as much as i can recall. And that didnt that worst after all. Ok, they got problems, and they scapped it was a few bad expansions and their unability to iron out the bugs. But at that time SWG was big. And before SWG? UO. That are 2 AAA sandbox mmos in my book, we ever saw. And both didnt bad at their time. After that not only one AAA sandbox. NOT one. You cant bring those underfinanced indy mmos to the table, because as much as i know there is not one indy themepark running well. Indy sandbox is at least EvE still alive and doing well.

    And to OP. Darkfall Unholy Water will not be a savior either. It isnt a full fletched out sandbox, and it is far away from being AAA. So dont count on it.. at best it wil do mediocre for a indy mmo. AT BEST.

  • Johnie-MarzJohnie-Marz La Puente, CAPosts: 865Member
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

    I guess I could agree a little, I think there would be a great market for a well made PVE Sandbox game. However when you add open world, full loot, pvp; it turns people off.

     

    I agree. I think the solution is to have something like Eve, where you have zones.

    However, Eve's PvE isn't good enough to maintain interest, so it's not a perfect example.

    Well if you had Wurms crafting: Chop down a tree, it falls down, flatten the ground, buld a road, build a house or a town. But do it with skyrim graphics and a more intuitive UI. That would be great.

  • Ghost12Ghost12 Boston, MAPosts: 684Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Ghost12

    Right, thats why Runescape a sandbox created in some kid's basement became one of the greatest F2P games of all time.

     

    Problem is, Runescape is no sandbox..

    *facepalm*

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    Do you think the success of Runescape, like WoW, was based on the amount of computers it could be played on?  Just thinking out loud... but if that were true, the guy hoping for "Skyrim" graphics can keep hoping.
  • strangewizardstrangewizard Anywhere, SCPosts: 42Member
    Originally posted by Eir_S
    Do you think the success of Runescape, like WoW, was based on the amount of computers it could be played on?  Just thinking out loud... but if that were true, the guy hoping for "Skyrim" graphics can keep hoping.

    It is hard to say. I'm inclined to say not at all.

    Getting a good gaming machine costs only around $1000 nowadays, to play new games on high settings. Computers have become very cheap.

    You can even get a gaming computer for as low as around $800, sometimes lower, that can run new games well.

    Dropping $1000ish every 3 years isn't hard at all. Just as a reference point, that is $27 a month over 3 years. People spend $27 a month going out to movies or dinner without even thinking about it, so that argument is a weak one.

    No, they are succesful because Runescape can be played in a web browser and WoW was in the right place at the right time.

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    If you build it, they will come.
  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common

    Look, another MMO Moses. Please tell us more revelations oh enlightened one! We will buy whatever you're selling.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • haplo602haplo602 Posts: 212Member Uncommon

    While I am all for sandbox MMOs (long year EVE player and always returning there), what you want is not easy.

     

    Look at EVE as an example. It had YEARS of improvement yet there are still gaps in almost all mechanics (maybe except the skill system). And you will end up with a THEMEPARK part in the game anyway just to get people started in the game. They need guidance, they need a sense of direction and growth. Any achievement in EVE feels like a 2nd job (be it PvE, PvP, market, industry ....). This is not for the common gamer.

     

    What the themeparks do wrong at the moment is an abuse of direction control. Players have almost no freedom in the game outside the main storylines (SWTOR is a great example). And some delusional fixation on endgame. ENDGAME IN AN MMORPG !!!

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,641Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ghost12

     

    BRING BACK SANDBOX!!! I WANT MY FREEDOM BACK!

     

     

    Are you saying that you will playing and supporting DF:UW?

    Because if you are not, then as far I can see you are part of the issue not the solution. For sandboxes to be made the ones here now have to be successful to prove a market.

    Unless you are talking about a PvE sandbox ofc, because that hasn't been tried in literally years and I would be right with you in seeing one made to test the support.

  • pwainpwain dortmundPosts: 125Member Common
    yes it's time for sandboxes
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Austin, TXPosts: 1,413Member Uncommon

    As usual, overestimating your numbers and underestimating the difficulties of producing this type of game.  

     

     

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

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This discussion has been closed.