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My guild has no reason to play together. ( somewhat un-sociable game )

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  • AerowynAerowyn Member Posts: 7,928
    Originally posted by Ghost12
     

     

    Ah yes, blame the players for bad design decisions.

     

    When I played MMO's, part of the reason why we grouped was the environment around us. You cannot "force" players to do something when there is no incentive to do it.

     

    Sigh.

    What MMO has a quest system designed to bring players together with EVERY single quest?(aside from personal story). What MMO encourages players to play together for not just group only type quests but for every quest out there? GW2 not only brings players together to fight alongside one another more than any other MMO i have ever played but puts in systems to make players WANT to play with others while doing normal quests by eliminating grieving, mob tagging, shared nodes, ect. Hate the game all you want but no other MMO i ever played encourages players to play with other players throughout the entire game than this one. It's an ACTION based combat system obviously you aren't going to have as much time to sit and talk through fights but plenty will talk after the fight all you have to do is talk it's not a hard concept. I never found "forced" communication enhanced the social aspect of any game and mostly caused more frustration than good.

    You can just see how angry some people are getting over the dungeons because it requires a tiny bit of "communication" imagine if every DE required the same? would be mass exodus here.

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Member Posts: 2,697

    I found it funny last night when I logged in for an hour. I run up to a broken DE (shocker, only see those everywhere past the newbie zones) and I see 2 other people running around checking it out. Then one of them says in a say "No one ever talks in this f&%king game!" and I stared at him for a moment then ran off.

     

    No one does talk, no one is social in this game. Why would you be? There is no need to. Even in WvW only about 5-8 of the people in there talk, everyone else just runs to whereever the action is and shoots at things.

     

    It is like playing a single player game with NPCs that move around more.

  • TeknoBugTeknoBug Member UncommonPosts: 2,156

    Sounds like a guild that isn't "family" like, I'm part of a guild that's been around for 10 years now with 400-500 members, unfortunately SWTOR kind of ripped some of us apart due to how the game was for us so we're down to about 200 or so now, but in GW2 we've been grouping every night looking for events, skillpoint challenges and WvW, talking in guild chat and ventrilo, it's like the old days again. I do notice new recruits we've been picking up aren't as social, so it isn't the guild's nor the game's fault, it's the players' fault- the anti-social culture is growing and there isn't much you can do about it.


    And /map chat, there are ALWAYS conversations going on in that channel and I usually join in and sometimes make friends out of it.


    *YOU* choose to be single-player or social.

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  • SentimeSentime Member UncommonPosts: 270
    Originally posted by teotius
    Game is only unsocial if u make it. People who complain are probably unsocial anyways.

     

    That's interesting because I've been in the same guild for 8 years now, we're played dozens of games and always done things together, and still do in other games, but in GW2, not so much .. the tools and need and content for it just isn't there.

     

  • eggy08eggy08 Member Posts: 525
    Originally posted by Ghost12
    Originally posted by zakiyawow
    Originally posted by delete5230

     

    It's not your guild's fault. It is the players' fault. I belong to a SMALL guild but we have a lot of chat on the vent server. We have a lot of grouping going on between people as well. Just yesterday I went to the lower zone to group with some guildmates because I still get decent xp and loot because of scaling. We then moved to do a jumping puzzle together and had great fun together from all the falling off the puzzle. 

     

    I dont believe in forced grouping. The game allows you to group. It is up to YOU to find people you like to play with and make friends in game. 

     

    Ah yes, blame the players for bad design decisions.

     

    When I played MMO's, part of the reason why we grouped was the environment around us. You cannot "force" players to do something when there is no incentive to do it.

     

    You know its funny, this post is so ridiculous it almost sounds sarcastic. Except its not.

     

    Scary.

    Ah yes, blame the designers for people not putting in much effort to make the game social. Blasphemy.

     

    This game honestly gives more incentive to grouping than any other MMO I have played. There is no sharing of loot. You get your own loot. So, if you were like me, you teamed up with other people to play Diablo 3, so if one of you got a drop for the other you would share it. And since noone shares loot and you get your own, you can group to your hearts content without a single problem arising.

    At the same time, they won't force you to group in the game since it is meant to be a casual game, not a game like FFXI, where groups were a necessity. This doesn't make the game less social, it just basically says to the unsocial that they are not forced to group just to level and do what they want in their play time.

  • eggy08eggy08 Member Posts: 525
    Originally posted by Sentime
    Originally posted by teotius
    Game is only unsocial if u make it. People who complain are probably unsocial anyways.

     

    That's interesting because I've been in the same guild for 8 years now, we're played dozens of games and always done things together, and still do in other games, but in GW2, not so much .. the tools and need and content for it just isn't there.

    So yea we're probably just unsocial complainers. 

    Because you need to group and do things together to be social? I assume you still talk to each other and converse about the game and other things though. That's being social. Forcing a group or to have to do content (outside instances) together is not making the game any more social.

  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Member Posts: 2,697
    Originally posted by TeknoBug

    Sounds like a guild that isn't "family" like, I'm part of a guild that's been around for 10 years now with 400-500 members, unfortunately SWTOR kind of ripped some of us apart due to how the game was for us so we're down to about 200 or so now, but in GW2 we've been grouping every night looking for events, skillpoint challenges and WvW, talking in guild chat and ventrilo, it's like the old days again. I do notice new recruits we've been picking up aren't as social, so it isn't the guild's nor the game's fault, it's the players' fault- the anti-social culture is growing and there isn't much you can do about it.


    And /map chat, there are ALWAYS conversations going on in that channel and I usually join in and sometimes make friends out of it.


    *YOU* choose to be single-player or social.

    That is as bad as the argument when people ask for harsh death penalties "Just force harsh penalties on yourself if you want them." It fully lacks any understanding on how human minds work.

     

    A game DIRECTLY affects how social the players will be. You can say it is the players fault if you really want, just as you could say it is the shoppers fault for sending manufacturing overseas because they all shopped at Walmart to get the lowest prices. They didn't HAVE to shop at Walmart, they could have spent more at other stores. But to blame the shoppers is a silly and fundamentally wrong approach.

     

    I've been social to at least some degree in every other MMO I've played. I formed groups for dungeon runs, talked to people, talked in region chats etc. In GW2 I do none of it. Sure you can say I'm choosing to not be social but it is a direct response to how the game is designed. I can "group" up with other people by just jumping in and killing mobs. I can help others by running over and reviving them without saying a word. There is no point in striking up a conversation and you can move around zones so quickly and easily getting something started in map chat is pointless. It is simply designed to not spur social aspects in the people who play the game.

     

    Even in WoW, once they added the dungeon finder tool the amount of talking/friend making/any social aspects dropped dramatically. You simply pushed a button, it stuck you in a group for the dungeon you needed and you all crushed through it without saying a word.

     

    When most gas stations switched to self service and you pay for the gas at the pump with a credit card, do you go inside to be social to the guy working there even though you don't need to interact with him. Or, to use your philosophy, do you CHOOSE to just get out get your gas, get back into your car and leave without being social with anyone?

     

    Ever wonder why millions of people walk by each other in the cities each day, sit next to each other on the subway/bus each day and yet don't say a word to each other? They're all just choosing to not be social, right? Or is it the environment that directs people to be that way?

     

     

    Most human social interactions come from forcing incidents, both in the real world and in a video game. It is, to repeat, silly to assume it is just that fact that millions of gamers are determined to be anti-social in the virtual world as opposed to game design directing people away from social interactions.

  • CastillleCastillle Member UncommonPosts: 2,679
    Originally posted by Sentime
    Originally posted by teotius
    Game is only unsocial if u make it. People who complain are probably unsocial anyways.

     

    That's interesting because I've been in the same guild for 8 years now, we're played dozens of games and always done things together, and still do in other games, but in GW2, not so much .. the tools and need and content for it just isn't there.

    So yea we're probably just unsocial complainers. 

    Funny cuz I play GW2 with my smite and LoL team and were plenty social.  We did ranked (stupidly easy and got  1st places in the  free tourneys we joined) dungeons, wvw, DEs.  Its pretty fun to finally be able to bring MOBA style tactics into an mmo. 

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  • SentimeSentime Member UncommonPosts: 270
    Originally posted by eggy08

     Because you need to group and do things together to be social? I assume you still talk to each other and converse about the game and other things though. That's being social. Forcing a group or to have to do content (outside instances) together is not making the game any more social.

     

    We can, and we do.  But we can do all that outside of GW2.

    The topic is not about the need for a group or forced grouping, it's about the guild having no reason to play together, and it's correct, the game lacks guild content. 

    It has tons of solo content, a little group content and will appeal to those type of players, but for guild content ... not so much.

  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    I thought we all liked freedom, why must the content force us to communicate when we could do it regardless? Don't get me wrong I love group required content but if in a guild of 100 people don't talk to eachother it's not the game.

    The ironic part is that in GW2 even the soloable content is shared xp per participation. There is no reason that groups cannot go out together and do anything in the game (well maybe not crafting). Also, don't events scale per players present? There is no excuse IMO, not the games fault.
  • TeknoBugTeknoBug Member UncommonPosts: 2,156


    Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
    just as you could say it is the shoppers fault for sending manufacturing overseas because they all shopped at Walmart to get the lowest prices. They didn't HAVE to shop at Walmart, they could have spent more at other stores. But to blame the shoppers is a silly and fundamentally wrong approach.

    Oh yes it's the shoppers' fault, I've been in the market/union business for 2 decades, we've been supporting products being manufactured in N. America/Europe but people prefer to save a few pennies by buying products made in China, Haiti, Chile, Indonesia and Mexico which leads to more companies resorting to those countries (like Honda). And now nearly everything in your house comes from China.


    Oh about socializing IRL, god it almost never happens anymore, 20 years ago riding the bus or train to work/home I used to have conversations with some people sitting next to me or across from me, just last friday I sat there on a FULL bus and I didn't even hear a single word for 20+ minutes and I realized what was happening- I looked around and 9 out of 10 people were looking down at their phone/tablet/kindle and listening to their ipods.

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  • XtenXten Member Posts: 119
    Originally posted by delete5230

    I belong to a very reputable Guild. The first week we had at least 40 people on ventrilo voice chat at one time, it was hard to get a word in. There were many others in sub chanels playing WvW as groups. We had at least 100 players online most all the time. WE STILL HAVE AT LEAST 100 PLAYERS ONLINE YET NO TALKING. No one one in sub chanels.

    ITS NOT OUR GUILDS FAULT......We had lost our rasion to group.  Don't get me wrong I still love this mmo and same with our guild. It's just another anti social mmo. WvW is fine for grouping, but how much can you play it.

     

    The open world social seems to be totally non-existent. No one is ever in heavy trouble, but with the occasional rez of the guy next to you. Like in another topic here, players names a just a bluer.

    NO REASON TO HAVE A FRIENDS LIST. In weeks of playing I had one request to group, and dismissed the invite. I wish I took it but reacted to quickly to reject it.  Besides what would be the point.  The game is made for auto group.

    MMO's like this is why there is no longevity, other than being B2P. My guess is population will drop often until major patches are given or expansions are released.

     

     

    If your 100 man guild needs a reason like a quest to talk to each other or and make a group with each other and does not talk or group together otherwise then i would say it is your guild that is not very sociable.

     

     

    Could be just me here but pffff.....

     

     

    i remember when i ran a legion 1,5 years ago , also 100 man with a stable core. We used to sit on TS with each other and hardly play even at times , we never needed the game to give us a reason. Build a proper  guild ! lol

  • KarteliKarteli Member CommonPosts: 2,646

    GW2 does have a huge missing gap when it comes to building social communities and rivals, so the OP is pretty much saying what most others are thinking or noticing.

     

    GW2 is just all about the individual player, not about groups or even guilds really.  Sure they exist, but grouping is automatic and it may as well all be NPC's or bots instead of active players.  It's just another form of LFD that WoW trashed their community with.  Guilds seem to exist just as a means for another chatroom filled with select people.

    All players are pretty much anonymous, since there is not a /who command to identify occupants of zones, by class or level or whatever.  You can't really see much information about another player - you can't inspect - you can't review their achievements.  All you can take note of is their downgraded level for a particular zone.

    On the PVE side it's kind of a lonely and boring game.  It's just not competitive PVE wise, and everything you do is really only visual & important to yourself, just like a single player RPG.  You might have an awesome legendary set, but nobody can actually see what items you have and how you upgraded them, for instance.

     

    I'd be worried about the longevity of this game too.  It's a shame, the vast majority of MMORPG's coming out are really not very social, like they used to be.  They are just turning into prettier co-op style games with random participants.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
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  • KuinnKuinn Member UncommonPosts: 2,072

    My guild has reasons to play together: Dungeons, champions, puzzles, PvP or just random DE farming with good company.

     

    In most of standard themepark games the only reasons to play together is Dungeons and PvP.

     

    I've played over a dozen AAA-themepark mmorpgs, none of them required a person to be social in order to complete anything, so maybe it's time to look in the mirror.

  • tiglietiglie Member UncommonPosts: 43

    Stop with the it's the player's fault bull.  This game is a worse single player RPG than SWG was.  I have played with the same core group of people since 2002.  We play multiple games together, and have for over 10 years now.  It was almost a chore to group in this game.  There is no incentive, it's easier to rush along solo, and you even get penalized doing your story quest together, because you end up having to do most steps twice.....even if you are on the same damn quest.  it's not the players fault, it is the games.  The only place some communication is required is in WvW, but unless you are in a small gank group of dedicated players (ala daoc 8 man style play), which is a small portion of this games players, all you have to do is stick to the zerg and auto attack the next keep door. 

     

    There is a reason you keep seeing these post......this game is a glorified single player experience.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo Member CommonPosts: 7,207
    I disagree, its much easier to do things as a guild whether its WvW or running around orr.

    There is no need to all turn up at exactly the same time. There is no telling people sorry all 25 l 40 whatever slots are full.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo Member CommonPosts: 7,207
    It makes a massive difference if your in WvW as a guild.
  • prpshrtprpshrt Member Posts: 258
    They should bring back alliance battles  & jade quarry. Also uber elite missions like urgoz and the deep. I'd actually go play em but they're all dead now.
  • ConnmacartConnmacart Member UncommonPosts: 722
    Originally posted by tiglie

    Stop with the it's the player's fault bull.  This game is a worse single player RPG than SWG was.  I have played with the same core group of people since 2002.  We play multiple games together, and have for over 10 years now.  It was almost a chore to group in this game.  There is no incentive, it's easier to rush along solo, and you even get penalized doing your story quest together, because you end up having to do most steps twice.....even if you are on the same damn quest.  it's not the players fault, it is the games.  The only place some communication is required is in WvW, but unless you are in a small gank group of dedicated players (ala daoc 8 man style play), which is a small portion of this games players, all you have to do is stick to the zerg and auto attack the next keep door. 

     

    There is a reason you keep seeing these post......this game is a glorified single player experience.

    You are not grouping for the sake of grouping, but only for your personal gain it seems. No incentive? Easier to rush along solo? Both of those are only for your own benefit and not for the sake of playing together, which would make a lot of MMOs singleplayer experiences for you I would say. It also makes you one of those non social players.

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Member UncommonPosts: 4,775
    Originally posted by delete5230

    I belong to a very reputable Guild. The first week we had at least 40 people on ventrilo voice chat at one time, it was hard to get a word in. There were many others in sub chanels playing WvW as groups. We had at least 100 players online most all the time. WE STILL HAVE AT LEAST 100 PLAYERS ONLINE YET NO TALKING. No one one in sub chanels.

    ITS NOT OUR GUILDS FAULT......We had lost our rasion to group.  Don't get me wrong I still love this mmo and same with our guild. It's just another anti social mmo. WvW is fine for grouping, but how much can you play it.

     

    The open world social seems to be totally non-existent. No one is ever in heavy trouble, but with the occasional rez of the guy next to you. Like in another topic here, players names a just a bluer.

    NO REASON TO HAVE A FRIENDS LIST. In weeks of playing I had one request to group, and dismissed the invite. I wish I took it but reacted to quickly to reject it.  Besides what would be the point.  The game is made for auto group.

    MMO's like this is why there is no longevity, other than being B2P. My guess is population will drop often until major patches are given or expansions are released.

    It's not the games fault, it's the guild leader, officers and members fault. 

    Why aren't you grouping up for personal stories? You can do that you know. There are several dungeons that players can get together and do. Not only is there WvW but there is also sPvP, does your guild have a team or few for sPvP?

     

    Socializing is becoming a dead aspect in almost every MMO because players are to lazy to socialize or simply are to afraid to for w/e reason. Forced grouping doesn't create a social atmosphere. It creates a use and be used atmosphere where you have to put up with some fould mouth twit until you can find a replacement healer or tank, raids lead to an event once or twice a week where you spend a more time prepairing than you do actually going through the content. 

    I have a friends list and I find a use for it. I keep my friends on it, when I'm doing a dungeon run I check to see who's on and if they want to get a group together. I'll check in with my sPvP friends and see if they are doing PvP today. The main guild I'm in does WvW a lot, when I'm up for that I pop in there. 

    I've made friends out doing DE's with random people, now we clear zones together when in the mood. 

    It is your guilds fault, theres plenty of reason to group... especially if you are complaining about the lack of socialization. You are the cause of the problem, the game gives you the means to socialize and the activities to do together. I would like more but plenty of activities do exist. 

     

    Want more socialization? Go out and socialize and quit blaming others for your own inability to socialize. 

  • PaRoXiTiCPaRoXiTiC Member UncommonPosts: 603

    It's not the game its the people.

     

    We have grown up and we are not 10-17 years old anymore. No longer do we think it is "COOL" to group and talk to people over the internet. The "New" factor on MMO's is gone. Once you people realize this you can start to enjoy playing video games for what they are again. 

     

    It's not any of the games. It's you. 

  • ShakyMoShakyMo Member CommonPosts: 7,207
    It's a generation of gamers that have the "must do it for the loot" mentality, not for fun, whether that be putting up with crappy raid guild politics, or jumping on a new server and power leveling so that they are ahead of the gear curve in pvp.

    I feel sad for this generation, brainwashed into a pavlovs dog response to big shineys numbers. But i guess its both their fault, as every major mmo game they grew up with enforced this position of "this is what all mmos are like". My generation didn't have this, only one game played like this - EQ. (ok maybe Ao too). Gw2 to me is a breath of fresh air, its a return to the good themepark games that were about having fun not farming loot - daoc, ac, coh etc..

    Hopefully the next generation of gamers, free from the tyrany of a decades worth of EQ / wow clones will start playing to have fun. Gw2 us a start, let's good future
  • RyukanRyukan Member UncommonPosts: 828

    My guild has about 50 people in it right now and when we are on we have no problem talking in vent or guild chat. We form small groups here and there and we hold out weekly guild events like WvW or Keg Brawl or make stuff up. Gonna go with the "not the game's fault, its the players' fault" sentiment here. Seems to be more random interaction with others for me by way of helping kill stuff and reviving people as well as the fact that buffs that affect allies extend beyond just people in your specific group.

    GW2 does a better job at fostering random (even ungrouped) cooperation rather than the random competition for mobs, nodes and quest objects unlike many other MMO's. Although more MMO's are coming around to this sort of thinking lately. Themepark MMO's should not be about competition in the open game world, leave that to the sandbox/open world/full PvP MMO's.

  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Member Posts: 2,697
    Originally posted by TeknoBug

     


    Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
    just as you could say it is the shoppers fault for sending manufacturing overseas because they all shopped at Walmart to get the lowest prices. They didn't HAVE to shop at Walmart, they could have spent more at other stores. But to blame the shoppers is a silly and fundamentally wrong approach.


    Oh yes it's the shoppers' fault, I've been in the market/union business for 2 decades, we've been supporting products being manufactured in N. America/Europe but people prefer to save a few pennies by buying products made in China, Haiti, Chile, Indonesia and Mexico which leads to more companies resorting to those countries (like Honda). And now nearly everything in your house comes from China.

     


    Oh about socializing IRL, god it almost never happens anymore, 20 years ago riding the bus or train to work/home I used to have conversations with some people sitting next to me or across from me, just last friday I sat there on a FULL bus and I didn't even hear a single word for 20+ minutes and I realized what was happening- I looked around and 9 out of 10 people were looking down at their phone/tablet/kindle and listening to their ipods.

    People weren't talking the streets of major cities or while sitting on a subway long before smart phones and other technology came around. They'd read books or newspapers to pass the time.

     

    It isn't a change of times or anything else, it is human nature and you can work with that nature to create socialization or to cause people to not socialize at all. So it is the products/stores fault not the person.

     

    It is so far from the shopper's fault it isn't even funny, although I am not surprised a union person who determine otherwise (not that unions drive up the cost of goods which helps make them more expensive than goods from other countries or anything like that...........). It goes beyond the scope of socializing in the world but if goods of at least comparable quality (not exact quality, they can be a bit worse) come out that are cheaper, people will natural buy the cheaper goods. Quality went to crap in U.S. products but the prices didn't decrease so everyone stopped buying them. Why do people buy Dyson vacuum cleaners when they're so expensive? The quality of them. It shows that it isn't just the cheapest product wins. Ford reinvented itself when the auto industry collapsed by saying it wasn't going to fight for having the cheapest cars anymore, it was going to instead make them a bit more expensive but they would be quality products. Ford bounced back faster and better than the other US auto manufacturers.   None of this is the consumer's fault, it is the companies who determine what the people will buy.

     

     

    So again, the game design directly determines how social the gamers will be. To say otherwise lacks understanding of how human beings actually work. There is a reason why when there are multiple MMOs out at one time, people will talk to one another a lot more in one than in the other. It isn't that magically the other game got 100% of the anti-social market. It is the design of the game that is causing it. As much as gamers THINK they hate it, they need down time in a game to socialize and to appreciate aspects of the game more. But in order to attract more gamers, games specifically take out any reason to stop, have down time, or even go to a town in order to give gamers what they THINK they want. Then those gamers get bored extremely fast and don't know why.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo Member CommonPosts: 7,207
    I agree with the down time thing.
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