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ANET has revolutionised MMO development

chryseschryses LondonPosts: 1,453Member Uncommon

Love or hate GW2, it’s irrelevant to this thread.

It dawned on me last weekend how smart ANET is.  People can argue if GW2 has revolutionised MMO’s but one thing is for sure is that ANET has revolutionised MMO development.

Other MMO’s have 1000’s of missions.  I remember reading somewhere one particular MMO had over 7000 missions alone.  The development to do this is extraordinary, imagine the following:

  • Number of professional writers
  • Number of NPC’s and animations for mission
  • Number of story arches that need to be taken into account
  • Number of mobs and unique NPC’s that the mission takes you to
  • Number of unique items, scenery, housing/setting for the mission giver and action.
  • Number of reward types and balancing, find tuning and bugs to iron out.

The ‘numbers’ are absolutely astronomical.  The cost and time to do the above is as we all know, years in the making.  Partly describes why so many missions mid/end game are so dry and repetitive.  They run out of time/money and ideas!

                                                                                           *********

Then there is ANET.  They HAVE revolutionised MMO development and I am sure other software houses are mad as hell that they didn’t think of this first.

Putting aside the main character story line/mission, ANET have no missions! They have implemented hearts which means there is only 1 NPC.  Only one point for issues, bugs, mobs etc etc.  It really is genius. 

Yes there are DE’s but what ANET has done is got rid of tens of thousands of hours of development and invested that into DE’s that services a group of players at the same time.  I personally feel the world of GW2 is very polished and it looks like a lot of time has been invested to make normally neglected areas such as under water scenery, quite lush.  DE’s do not need professional writers, thousands of unique NPC’s and bugs are isolated so ANET can fix easily.

Love or hate GW2 or the way it’s been developed.  The future of MMO’s may change forever based on what they have done.   

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Comments

  • KingJigglyKingJiggly Simpsonville, SCPosts: 777Member
    Originally posted by chryses

    Love or hate GW2, it’s irrelevant to this thread.

    It dawned on me last weekend how smart ANET is.  People can argue if GW2 has revolutionised MMO’s but one thing is for sure is that ANET has revolutionised MMO development.

    Other MMO’s have 1000’s of missions.  I remember reading somewhere one particular MMO had over 7000 missions alone.  The development to do this is extraordinary, imagine the following:

    • Number of professional writers
    • Number of NPC’s and animations for mission
    • Number of story arches that need to be taken into account
    • Number of mobs and unique NPC’s that the mission takes you to
    • Number of unique items, scenery, housing/setting for the mission giver and action.
    • Number of reward types and balancing, find tuning and bugs to iron out.

    The ‘numbers’ are absolutely astronomical.  The cost and time to do the above is as we all know, years in the making.  Partly describes why so many missions mid/end game are so dry and repetitive.  They run out of time/money and ideas!

                                                                                               *********

    Then there is ANET.  They HAVE revolutionised MMO development and I am sure other software houses are mad as hell that they didn’t think of this first.

    Putting aside the main character story line/mission, ANET have no missions! They have implemented hearts which means there is only 1 NPC.  Only one point for issues, bugs, mobs etc etc.  It really is genius. 

    Yes there are DE’s but what ANET has done is got rid of tens of thousands of hours of development and invested that into DE’s that services a group of players at the same time.  I personally feel the world of GW2 is very polished and it looks like a lot of time has been invested to make normally neglected areas such as under water scenery, quite lush.  DE’s do not need professional writers, thousands of unique NPC’s and bugs are isolated so ANET can fix easily.

    Love or hate GW2 or the way it’s been developed.  The future of MMO’s may change forever based on what they have done.   

    Des take about 6 times as long to make compared to normal quests lol. I completely agree with you, just wanted to point that out.

  • DraemosDraemos Antartica, AKPosts: 1,469Member
    Originally posted by chryses

    Love or hate GW2, it’s irrelevant to this thread.

    It dawned on me last weekend how smart ANET is.  People can argue if GW2 has revolutionised MMO’s but one thing is for sure is that ANET has revolutionised MMO development.

    Other MMO’s have 1000’s of missions.  I remember reading somewhere one particular MMO had over 7000 missions alone.  The development to do this is extraordinary, imagine the following:

    • Number of professional writers
    • Number of NPC’s and animations for mission
    • Number of story arches that need to be taken into account
    • Number of mobs and unique NPC’s that the mission takes you to
    • Number of unique items, scenery, housing/setting for the mission giver and action.
    • Number of reward types and balancing, find tuning and bugs to iron out.

    The ‘numbers’ are absolutely astronomical.  The cost and time to do the above is as we all know, years in the making.  Partly describes why so many missions mid/end game are so dry and repetitive.  They run out of time/money and ideas!

                                                                                               *********

    Then there is ANET.  They HAVE revolutionised MMO development and I am sure other software houses are mad as hell that they didn’t think of this first.

    Putting aside the main character story line/mission, ANET have no missions! They have implemented hearts which means there is only 1 NPC.  Only one point for issues, bugs, mobs etc etc.  It really is genius. 

    Yes there are DE’s but what ANET has done is got rid of tens of thousands of hours of development and invested that into DE’s that services a group of players at the same time.  I personally feel the world of GW2 is very polished and it looks like a lot of time has been invested to make normally neglected areas such as under water scenery, quite lush.  DE’s do not need professional writers, thousands of unique NPC’s and bugs are isolated so ANET can fix easily.

    Love or hate GW2 or the way it’s been developed.  The future of MMO’s may change forever based on what they have done.   

     

    I've highlighted why your argument falls apart.  GW2 doesn't have an endgame that's more appreciable than any other MMO endgame... arguably it's (far) worse than many of the top games.  If GW2 model was revolutionary, they'd have more to show for it.  

  • rexzshadowrexzshadow stockton, CAPosts: 1,428Member
    Originally posted by chryses

    Love or hate GW2, it’s irrelevant to this thread.

    It dawned on me last weekend how smart ANET is.  People can argue if GW2 has revolutionised MMO’s but one thing is for sure is that ANET has revolutionised MMO development.

    Other MMO’s have 1000’s of missions.  I remember reading somewhere one particular MMO had over 7000 missions alone.  The development to do this is extraordinary, imagine the following:

    • Number of professional writers ( So do most other games and the story is still werid. Fyi professional writer write books and movies script, many of them write game as if it were such and that is why lot of game story falls apart. Most game company use professional writes, its how well they ingrate them in that matters)
    • Number of NPC’s and animations for mission ( So is lot of other games idk whats so speical here)
    • Number of story arches that need to be taken into account ( Yes, but than again so did SWTOR)
    • Number of mobs and unique NPC’s that the mission takes you to ( Not really on this part, I honestly wasn't very impressed with it, its nice but also very predictable in a mannar)
    • Number of unique items, scenery, housing/setting for the mission giver and action. (welcome to mmos o.o?)
    • Number of reward types and balancing, find tuning and bugs to iron out. ( So does every other game that want to successed)

    The ‘numbers’ are absolutely astronomical.  The cost and time to do the above is as we all know, years in the making.  Partly describes why so many missions mid/end game are so dry and repetitive.  They run out of time/money and ideas! (There is no end game)

                                                                                               *********

    Then there is ANET.  They HAVE revolutionised MMO development and I am sure other software houses are mad as hell that they didn’t think of this first.

    Putting aside the main character story line/mission, ANET have no missions! They have implemented hearts which means there is only 1 NPC.  Only one point for issues, bugs, mobs etc etc.  It really is genius. ( which is a fusion of every single generic quest type in to one, so instead of doing 5 quest they fused it all to one and feel grindy as fck)

    Yes there are DE’s but what ANET has done is got rid of tens of thousands of hours of development and invested that into DE’s that services a group of players at the same time.  I personally feel the world of GW2 is very polished and it looks like a lot of time has been invested to make normally neglected areas such as under water scenery, quite lush.  DE’s do not need professional writers, thousands of unique NPC’s and bugs are isolated so ANET can fix easily. ( What o.o.....)

    Love or hate GW2 or the way it’s been developed.  The future of MMO’s may change forever based on what they have done.   

    No it won't

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,586Member Uncommon

    From a technological and development standpoint, Trion is far ahead of ANET. Yes, DEs are very complex and required a tremendous amount of resourses to develop. Problem is, No bang for the buck. R.O.I. is too small. There is nothing particularly special about the DE experience. It's OK, but it's not so much better than traditional questing. Not only that, but because they are so intensive, the "Cut N Paste" feel of the coding permeates the whole game. To be honest, DE's didn't feel any more engaging that Rifts did. And I usually pass by those unless there is a reason not to. Beyond that, Rift's Zone Invasions Blow away any DE I have done in GW2. In terms of fun factor, they are just better.


    Hearts? Come on. Go into WoW, find a little quest village and move them to where the actual quest takes place, Now have the quest auto populate into the quest log and there you go....Hearts. Or at least you get the same effect. If you want a truly hub-less quest system, once again, You have to look to Rift. Instant Adventures are more accurately hub-less than Hearts. Not to say they are without their very obvious and appearant limitations due to being such a new development in MMOs. But as a system to be improved upon and modeled in the future, IAs are superior to hearts.

    Sorry, Not to say Rift is a perfect game, I'd be happy to list my (long list of) issues. But still.......

  • Atlan99Atlan99 Calgary, ABPosts: 1,323Member

    I see  a few problems with your argument.

    1)DE's aren't a revolution by Arenanet. They had already been done in several mmo's prior.

    2)If GW2 had more content because it was easier to make content for, I wouldn't have finished all that content within 2 weeks.

  • zellmerzellmer Fakesville, WIPosts: 442Member

    Make this thread in another month or two when EVERYONE is sick of GW2, not just half of their playerbase..

     

     

  • NitreNitre berlinPosts: 37Member

    im already sick of it tbh. i cant even get enough motivation to login.

     

    here i come again azeroth..

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Instant Adventures are technically more accurately hub-less than Hearts. Not to say they are without their very obvious and appearant limitations due to being such a new development in MMOs. But as a system to be improved upon and modeled in the future, IAs are superior to hearts.

    ive never done IA but i did read about - and as a concept, i agree w you

  • chryseschryses LondonPosts: 1,453Member Uncommon

    [mod edit]

    I am breaking this completely down from a resource perspective and how the they have invested their time and money.  I personally don't care what you think of the game.

    For the record, I am a Change Project Manager and my entire role is trying to remove process and utilise resource more effectively.  When I look at what ANET has done, I think it is a big shift in MMO development.

    I realise DE's take up more time etc. But from a pure development perspective, ANET have dodged a huge time and resource black hole and avoided the need to write 1000's of missions and all of the addons. 

     

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,586Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer Instant Adventures are technically more accurately hub-less than Hearts. Not to say they are without their very obvious and appearant limitations due to being such a new development in MMOs. But as a system to be improved upon and modeled in the future, IAs are superior to hearts.
    ive never done IA but i did read about - and as a concept, i agree w you

    The implementation isn't bad, but it needs work. But it was also added as an afterthought and is very limited in scope right now, However, I can see future games or expansions adopting this system and improving on it. It's got a lot of potential. Basically the biggest limitation with IAs as they are is the looping. Stay in the raid group long enough and you are repeating the cycle.

    Just being fair.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,586Member Uncommon

     


    Originally posted by chryses
    [mod edit]

     

    I am breaking this completely down from a resource perspective and how the they have invested their time and money.  I personally don't care what you think of the game.

    For the record, I am a Change Project Manager and my entire role is trying to remove process and utilise resource more effectively.  When I look at what ANET has done, I think it is a big shift in MMO development.

    I realise DE's take up more time etc. But from a pure development perspective, ANET have dodged a huge time and resource black hole and avoided the need to write 1000's of missions and all of the addons. 

     


     

    I'm sorry, I don't see how ANET did anything better. From a dev standpoint, How many DEs are reused in the game? I also have news for you. Rifts are no longer entirely what they used to be. There are new ones. And you cant just go into them and kill everything as fast as you can. They are starting to require elements of strategy such as objects requiring interaction and mobs being required to be moved, kited or pulled to certain locations before you can kill them. And obviously, kill orders. No, it's nothing spectacular, but they are eveolving past what people remember.

     

  • fyerwallfyerwall Posts: 3,155Member Uncommon
    What did they revolutionize? They have missions - hearts are still quest hubs, regardless of the fact they auto-populate in your log when you approach them. As for the professional writers comment, the story is blandly generic and most of the dialogue is just plain bad. Voice acting is horrific at times while the rest of it feels apathetic in delivery - like they forced office staff to read it. DEs feel the same as they did in Rift, so I don't see much revolution there.

    There are 3 types of people in the world.
    1.) Those who make things happen
    2.) Those who watch things happen
    3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"


    image

  • ElSandmanElSandman BrisbanePosts: 94Member
    Originally posted by chryses

    ....

    I realise DE's take up more time etc. .... 

     

    And therein lies the flaw in your argument.  Anet themselves have admitted that creating DEs take roughly 3x as long as traditional quest giver type content.

     

    And the shame of it is, at the end of the day, the gloss of the psuedo grouping in dynamic events wears off quickly, and I would rather regain the better story telling that can be provided by quest givers!

     

  • DraemosDraemos Antartica, AKPosts: 1,469Member
    Originally posted by chryses

    [mod edit]

    I am breaking this completely down from a resource perspective and how the they have invested their time and money.  I personally don't care what you think of the game.

    For the record, I am a Change Project Manager and my entire role is trying to remove process and utilise resource more effectively.  When I look at what ANET has done, I think it is a big shift in MMO development.

    I realise DE's take up more time etc. But from a pure development perspective, ANET have dodged a huge time and resource black hole and avoided the need to write 1000's of missions and all of the addons. 

     

    Oh, you're a project manager.  That explains your interest in mundane and useless time management nonsense.

  • SiugSiug TallinnPosts: 1,236Member Uncommon
    So far I haven't seen anything in GW2 that even remotedly resembles revolution. Rolled a new toon and feel exhausted because I just cannot do those bland copy paste zones and tedious DE's yet again. So I stopped playing. Must be playing GW2 wrong (tm) image
  • NitreNitre berlinPosts: 37Member
    Originally posted by Piiritus
    So far I haven't seen anything in GW2 that even remotedly resembles revolution. Rolled a new toon and feel exhausted because I just cannot do those bland copy paste zones and tedious DE's yet again. So I stopped playing. Must be playing GW2 wrong (tm) image

     

    congrats to your GW2 burnout syndrome. it hit me a week ago. didnrt login since..just cant be bothered.
  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,934Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rexzshadow
    Originally posted by chryses
    • Number of professional writers ( So do most other games and the story is still werid. Fyi professional writer write books and movies script, many of them write game as if it were such and that is why lot of game story falls apart. Most game company use professional writes, its how well they ingrate them in that matters)

    Really? Jeff Grubb actually sold a lot of books ("Curse of the azure bonds" is a classic and he did create the classic RPG setting Forgotten realms with Ed Greenwood). R-A Salvatore is of course even bigger but Copernicus got cancelled.

    So which "real" authors do work on MMOs right now? Someone who written stuff besides ratkilling quests I mean.

  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member
    Originally posted by ElSandman
    Originally posted by chryses

    ....

    I realise DE's take up more time etc. .... 

     

    And therein lies the flaw in your argument.  Anet themselves have admitted that creating DEs take roughly 3x as long as traditional quest giver type content.

     

    And the shame of it is, at the end of the day, the gloss of the psuedo grouping in dynamic events wears off quickly, and I would rather regain the better story telling that can be provided by quest givers!

     

    Please play SWTOR then or TSW. That's what I'd do atleast.

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • DjildjameshDjildjamesh maasdijkPosts: 406Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nitre
    Originally posted by Piiritus
    So far I haven't seen anything in GW2 that even remotedly resembles revolution. Rolled a new toon and feel exhausted because I just cannot do those bland copy paste zones and tedious DE's yet again. So I stopped playing. Must be playing GW2 wrong (tm) image

     

    congrats to your GW2 burnout syndrome. it hit me a week ago. didnrt login since..just cant be bothered.

    goodluck finding an MMO wich WILL  last you haha.

    You people are like MMO-zombies ... EVERLASTING HUNGER TO DEVOUR CONTENT WAAAAAARAAARGH LOL.

     

    You people will never be pleased, with ANYTHING

  • GeevesGeeves SydneyPosts: 148Member
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    To be honest, DE's didn't feel any more engaging that Rifts did. And I usually pass by those unless there is a reason not to. Beyond that, Rift's Zone Invasions Blow away any DE I have done in GW2. In terms of fun factor, they are just better.

    I strongly disagree with this. I've found GW2s event chains very interesting to the point that I'll hang around after every event I come across to see if it chains into another point in the map. I only got to about level 35 in Rift but the rifts always seemed to act like blobs on the map or basic invasions into allied towns. In the first 20 levels I've seen way more complexity in GW2s DEs than I'd seen in my time in Rift.

    MUNDO!!

  • redman875redman875 illinois, ILPosts: 230Member

    This thread will be a very fun bump in a month.

     

    So much content that people started leaving the game since there was nothing to do weeks ago!

     

    Nah im kidding...repeating the same old quests int he form of DE is content right?  Even if all the DE are the same mechanically.

     

    Maybey the real revolution will be with mmorpgs with no endgame?  Just do the quests...erm DE since that got revolutionized (i think it was by funcom in AO with their alien invasion expansion however) and when your done you can breath a sigh of reliefe that you wont have to participate in a boring endgame...since there is none. 

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,934Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ElSandman
    Originally posted by chryses

    ....

    I realise DE's take up more time etc. .... 

    And therein lies the flaw in your argument.  Anet themselves have admitted that creating DEs take roughly 3x as long as traditional quest giver type content.

    And the shame of it is, at the end of the day, the gloss of the psuedo grouping in dynamic events wears off quickly, and I would rather regain the better story telling that can be provided by quest givers!

    Really? The first quest I ever did in MMOs was go and kill 10 rats in a moat in M59. I done it ever since, but at least in GW2 most of those allow me to do other stuff as well to complete them.

    Quests can indeed be great and epic, I played a few of those in various games but 99% of them in all games are rat killing quests, FEDEX quests or escort the insane guy with the bad AI no matter what.

    Sure DEs take longer time to make than those but the great quests take long time to make as well. Like EQ2s HQs, those were actually fun.

    Nah, I like the DEs because they at least make quests like defend point x more interesting since you dont do them alone and the different deliverance helps as well.

    If you want to keep quests I think TSW is on the right quests, few epic quests instead of huge questlogs filled with stuff so bad that not even the worst fantasy writer would use a single of them in his books.

    Quests kinda makes you think they would be more about finding the holy grail or throwing the one ring into mount Doom and less about cleaning out rats of someones basement.

    GW2s heart quests however are counted in here, they usually suck as well.

  • Johnie-MarzJohnie-Marz La Puente, CAPosts: 865Member

    A rose by any other name...

    I am still watering corn and feeding cattle, killing spiders, killing bandits. A quest is a quest. Whether you are told to kill ten spiders or just go out into a field and kill spiders until the game tells you, you have killed enough to move on to the next area.

    It is sort of like the term"Guild." Many games call it by a different name, but it's still a "guild."

     

    What GW2 does well, is. You don't get sent from one quest to another. That is what's turing me off to quests in most MMO's. In GW2 you can do the hearts which ever order you want. The game doesn't feel as on rails as the new wave of MMO's. 

     

    But, even though they have a differnt delivery system. they are still quests.

    A quest by any other name is still a quest.

  • koljanekoljane BelgradePosts: 127Member Uncommon

    I thought this post was serious, but i had a good laugh about all that revolutionary :D

     

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    From a technological and development standpoint, Trion is far ahead of ANET. 

    Trion just reuses existing resources.  master mode dungeons, chronicles, conquest, instant adventures...this all uses prexisting artwork and zones.  Its a smart strategy, but their aggressive release schedule isnt because the technology is better.   Its because most of what they have released is designed to get max content out of minimum real estate.  

     

    GW2s DEs at least attempt to leave the RPG in MMORPG, whereas IAs are, so far, just another queue mechanic to do content with no meaning to it whatsoever.  Its cool that its out in the open world and not in an instance, but itsnot compelling content.  Could it be built upon?  sure.  but as it is now its nothing to get excited about.

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