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"We're working on 1st person mode"

DartoxerDartoxer BudapestPosts: 11Member

You guys might want to check this.

I know one tweet doesn't mean much. But still, compared to what they said back in June, that proper FPV is not something they're focusing on. Maybe they're actually listening to what we say? Or perhaps this was planned from the start?

I'm sorry if this isn't new thread worthy...but I just got excited lol.

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Comments

  • UhwopUhwop Wilm, DEPosts: 1,663Member Uncommon

    WoW has FPV, it's not quite the same as saying you designed the game from the ground up with FPV in mind.  Just because they're making an FPV view doesn't mean that the game is going to play like it was intended to be played in that view anymore then WoW is intended to be played in FPV.

    And to be quit honest, FPV isn't even that big a deal.  Skyrim was designed from the ground up to provide a better 3rd person experience then past ES games provided, and it was evident when you played it that they actually took the time to provide a better experience in 3rd person view.  I found skyrim to be better in 3rd person then in 1st.

    The problem isn't really the view.  It's being pigeon holed into classes, gear, faction, and zone.  An emphasis on single player, story driven content, phasing, zone restricted pvp as "end game" content. 

    It may not necessarilly be a "WoW clone", but it sure sounds like it's going to be a GW2 clone.  As an ES fan it's going to take a lot more then a FPV to get me to play this game if it's anything like GW2.  ESO should be a sandbox, not another themepark MMO. 

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Uhwop

    WoW has FPV, it's not quite the same as saying you designed the game from the ground up with FPV in mind.  Just because they're making an FPV view doesn't mean that the game is going to play like it was intended to be played in that view anymore then WoW is intended to be played in FPV.

    And to be quit honest, FPV isn't even that big a deal.  Skyrim was designed from the ground up to provide a better 3rd person experience then past ES games provided, and it was evident when you played it that they actually took the time to provide a better experience in 3rd person view.  I found skyrim to be better in 3rd person then in 1st.

    The problem isn't really the view.  It's being pigeon holed into classes, gear, faction, and zone.  An emphasis on single player, story driven content, phasing, zone restricted pvp as "end game" content. 

    It may not necessarilly be a "WoW clone", but it sure sounds like it's going to be a GW2 clone.  As an ES fan it's going to take a lot more then a FPV to get me to play this game if it's anything like GW2.  ESO should be a sandbox, not another themepark MMO. 

    Well, it gives me a little hope, if they are "working on it" it means they have heard the overwhelmeing outcry.  Hopefully they have heard us about classes and factions as well.

    The PR for ESO dropped off to nothing after E3 so hopefully that's a sign they have realized they were going in the wrong direction.

    I have, I will admit, enjoyed my time in GW2.  It has some great design elements that keep it interesting.

    That said, if ESO is much like GW2, I won't play it.  It won't feel like TES and will just kinda feel fake.  GW2 is fine because there's no real other precedent for the Guild Wars franchise being anything other than it is, but for TES, it will just feel very limited.

    So while this is a good sign, and a step in the right direction, I'm not yet sold.

  • DAS1337DAS1337 Parma, OHPosts: 2,404Member

    If they can make FPV for people who actually like it.. which is far less than you probably believe, then I say, go for it.  Just because I don't really enjoy FPV and I believe FPV is not realistic in most MMO's today does not mean that people who like it should be excluded from it.  If it can be done without interrupting any other game mechanics, then great.  

     

    THe problem with FPV is that there is a dramatic disadvantage to playing in that perspective when everyone has the option to play in 3rd person.  You can see around corners for one.  You are also more aware of your surroundings.  You can locate your group mates as well as your enemies with greater ease.  Then there is the overwhelming majority who just prefer it.  And of course there are the people who like to look at their characters and get off from it, strange but true.  Personally, I think it's far more immersive that FPV.  FPV in video games, today, is more like tunnel vision.  It's not even an accurate interpretation of what we see as humans in the real world, not even close.

     

    However, as I said, I am not the type to shoot something down just because I do not prefer it.  There are some that do, and if it can be included, I am 100% behind it.

  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member
    Originally posted by DAS1337

    If they can make FPV for people who actually like it.. which is far less than you probably believe, then I say, go for it.  Just because I don't really enjoy FPV and I believe FPV is not realistic in most MMO's today does not mean that people who like it should be excluded from it.  If it can be done without interrupting any other game mechanics, then great.  

     

    THe problem with FPV is that there is a dramatic disadvantage to playing in that perspective when everyone has the option to play in 3rd person.  You can see around corners for one.  You are also more aware of your surroundings.  You can locate your group mates as well as your enemies with greater ease.  Then there is the overwhelming majority who just prefer it.  And of course there are the people who like to look at their characters and get off from it, strange but true.  Personally, I think it's far more immersive that FPV.  FPV in video games, today, is more like tunnel vision.  It's not even an accurate interpretation of what we see as humans in the real world, not even close.

     

    However, as I said, I am not the type to shoot something down just because I do not prefer it.  There are some that do, and if it can be included, I am 100% behind it.

     i dont kinow a single person that can see just like a satellite. Part of the reason why games arent as good nowadays is this movement to 3rd person which does increase efficiency in playing at the cost of pretty much everything else. I prefer to be looking through my players eyes rather than controlling him from space.

    its a clear cut case of the more you see the less you actually see.

  • adam_noxadam_nox hays, KSPosts: 2,036Member Uncommon

    Right, and while we are at it, we should limit the speed at which you can look left and right, and add a delay for body turning after a specific arc of the neck for realism and immersion as well. 

     

    There's a good reason why mmos aren't usually played first person.  A game has to be balanced around it's limitations, and you can't balance it against both that and 3rd person in a game where melee competence and tracking other players or competent AI is important online. 

     

    I wouldn't mind a game entirely in first person, but I sure wouldn't want to pvp in one where people can just circle strafe you or run through you due to lag even with collision detection.   It can be balanced, but mmo devs are clueless about this sort of thing, so let's just leave it out.

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by adam_nox

    Right, and while we are at it, we should limit the speed at which you can look left and right, and add a delay for body turning after a specific arc of the neck for realism and immersion as well. 

     

    There's a good reason why mmos aren't usually played first person.  A game has to be balanced around it's limitations, and you can't balance it against both that and 3rd person in a game where melee competence and tracking other players or competent AI is important online. 

     

    I wouldn't mind a game entirely in first person, but I sure wouldn't want to pvp in one where people can just circle strafe you or run through you due to lag even with collision detection.   It can be balanced, but mmo devs are clueless about this sort of thing, so let's just leave it out.

    Very true, I would not PvP in first person if third-person was available, only because I'd get corner-looked and out-maneuvered too easily.

    I would however PvE and quest in first-person.  Mortal Online is first-person only and the combat is a ton of fun, easy to learn, hard to master.  Too bad the rest of the game is pretty much garbage.

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member
    I hope they dont disregard the large player base who prefer 3rd person perspective just to get into this.  I was one of the largest supporters of Skyrims announcement to be playable in 3rd person view but the implementation left alot to be desired.

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

  • GaladournGaladourn AthensPosts: 1,052Member

    FPV is nice in theory, but fails when it comes to the actual implementation. Darkfall was boasting a FPV-only gameplay, and soon the majority of the players, even those who were fanatical opponents of TPV, finally agreed that it was needed.

    You cannot simulate the situational awareness of the human head through a computer screen; humans have peripheral vision and are generally much more aware of their surroundings than could possibly be simulated through a computer game.

    So a big no to FPV from me if it is mandatory, fine if it is an option.

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,660Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Galadourn

    FPV is nice in theory, but fails when it comes to the actual implementation. Darkfall was boasting a FPV-only gameplay, and soon the majority of the players, even those who were fanatical opponents of TPV, finally agreed that it was needed.

    You cannot simulate the situational awareness of the human head through a computer screen; humans have peripheral vision and are generally much more aware of their surroundings than could possibly be simulated through a computer game.

    So a big no to FPV from me if it is mandatory, fine if it is an option.

    So... does being able to see in every direction around you, including directly behind you, all at the same time somehow simulate it better? Being able to see that guy trying to come at you from behind rather than having to listen to sounds and be wary of your surrounding is a better simulation? How about being able to see around corners several feet away from you while youre standing face first in a wall? Or being able to see over buildings and other objects many times taller than you?

    Yes FPV isnt perfect, but its a hell of a lot more "realistic" than a 3rd person view where you can stare at your own ass (and hell, even the asses of people who are behind you running the same direction) while running along. As far as awareness of your surroundings, yeah lack of peripheral vision sucks but youre just losing a portion of your viewing range as well as the fact thats ome people have poor to almost non-existant peripheral vision IRL anyway. But you can still use your ears to pick up on things to your sides. You can easily  tell from listening that someone is coming at you from the right or left.

    Sorry but I would have to question the sanity of anyone who honestly believes 3rd person view is more realistic or immersive than 1st person.

    Seriously. Stand up, go put your face against the wall, and tell me how well you can see around the nearest corner. Next, go out your front door and stand directly in front of it and tell us how much of your roof & backyard you can see. Then log into your favorite MMO with 3rd person view and tell me how immersive and realistic that feels compared to what you just did.

    At the very least, i would like to see them make it more of a close up 3rd person / OTS (over the shoulder view) where you cant pan out to ridiculous distances and  see everything. Enough that its fairly close to FPV, but gives you a little bit larger field of view to your sides and you cant see peope sneaking up on you until theyre practically already in position. Something similar to what they used in games like Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter and their OTS view.

  • GaladournGaladourn AthensPosts: 1,052Member
    Originally posted by kaiser3282
    Originally posted by Galadourn

    FPV is nice in theory, but fails when it comes to the actual implementation. Darkfall was boasting a FPV-only gameplay, and soon the majority of the players, even those who were fanatical opponents of TPV, finally agreed that it was needed.

    You cannot simulate the situational awareness of the human head through a computer screen; humans have peripheral vision and are generally much more aware of their surroundings than could possibly be simulated through a computer game.

    So a big no to FPV from me if it is mandatory, fine if it is an option.

    So... does being able to see in every direction around you, including directly behind you, all at the same time somehow simulate it better? 

    Locked TPV above character's shoulder.  moves together with the character. problem solved. That's how they did it in Darkfall, that's how they've done it in Mount&Blade, and works fine.

  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member

    i dunno for me its a totally different game when its played in first person. I dont know how they expect to make good use of monster queues for combat while everyone is zoomed out into space somewhere. Guild wars 2 has a similar problem. You cant often see what you need to see because your either in the way or your zoomed out too far. They also have the problem that spell effects totally prevent you from seeing anything at all. I had to play asura in that game just so i could see what i was doing. I cant imagine you could play a norn without zooming all the way out.

    when your bound to an active combat system and from the sounds of it, this will be the case, you have to make sure that the ques are very visible. That being said, i am open to 3rd person views but they should really put some thought into how they are done.

    I wouldnt mind a 3rd person view that is pushed offcenter a bit and only shows the characters head and shoulders at the bottom of the screen. That would be the next best think to FPV i guess.

     

  • I hope 1st person isn't the "main mode." I prefer 3rd person view in RPGs. It can work with dungeon crawlers like Eye of the Beholder and that sort though.
  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Axxar
    I hope 1st person isn't the "main mode." I prefer 3rd person view in RPGs. It can work with dungeon crawlers like Eye of the Beholder and that sort though.

    Or like, um, Elder Scrolls games.

    derp

  • ZigZagsZigZags Modesto, CAPosts: 328Member

    Wow....If they are actually LISTENING to the fans BEFORE they release the game....that would be a huge breakthrough in this industry and maybe they have a chance. I think the LACK of hype and bashing of this game is a good thing. Earlier it sounded like this game was just going to be a huge disaster trying to make a quick buck off TES fans. I still have my reservations about this game but this is a step in the RIGHT direction. 

    Now: Skyrim
    Later: ?
    Played: M59, UO, EQ, Runescape, DAOC, SB, EQ2, WoW, EVE, Darkfall, AoC, FFXI, FFXIV, WAR, SWTOR
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  • GaladournGaladourn AthensPosts: 1,052Member
    Originally posted by Fagmod
    Well they already fck'd up this game by making it autoaim/tab targeting, so FPV/TPV doesn't really matter anymore.

    pretty much

  • ScalplessScalpless SnowballvillePosts: 1,396Member Uncommon

    This probably has less to do with listening to the fans and more to do with not being completely deaf. If TESO is a WoW clone with an ES look, it'll fail miserably and they know it, so they're trying to make it more TES-like.

    That being said, I still wonder what was up with that PR guy who said they're making this game similar to WoW. Is he a BS school dropout? You'd think any modern PR guy knows that, even if you're making a WoW clone, you're supposed to say your game is nothing like WoW.

  • AdamTMAdamTM Frankfurt Am MainPosts: 1,376Member
    Originally posted by Scalpless

    This probably has less to do with listening to the fans and more to do with not being completely deaf. If TESO is a WoW clone with an ES look, it'll fail miserably and they know it, so they're trying to make it more TES-like.

    That being said, I still wonder what was up with that PR guy who said they're making this game similar to WoW. Is he a BS school dropout? You'd think any modern PR guy knows that, even if you're making a WoW clone, you're supposed to say your game is nothing like WoW.

    The people hired for PR in this industry mostly have no idea what they are talking about and take orders from the top on how to present the game. Except the top doesn't know what they are doing exactly either.

    The only people that know what they are doing are the designers and people actually involved in crafting the game. Everyone else is there for either the investment or the secure 40h/week desk job.

    The problem is that you can't do PR for game like you do PR for other products based on your excell spreadsheets, you have to "get it".

    The gaming "community" is too tightly knit, too well informed and too well organized in comparison to marketing toasters or the newest model of a car. In themselves, games are too diverse, and there are too many niches, styles, preferences and mechanics to account for "old guard" marketing.

    This especially is true for MMORPGs as people who play MMOs essentially "live" online. You can maybe try to market your newest Call Of Battlefield 13 in the same way as you would a movie with "visceral entertainment", but with MMOs it breaks down.

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  • ScalplessScalpless SnowballvillePosts: 1,396Member Uncommon

    Hiring an outsider to do MMORPG PR sounds like a very stupid move. I don't know much about how other companies do business, but I know that ANet's PR people are usually also the community managers, so they read the forums, organise in-game events from time to time (although they stopped doing that because of dickish players IIRC) and play the game at least a bit. Also, Funcom's designers handle their PR, and designers usually know what the genre is about.

    I know saying all "suits" are idiots is the cool thing to do nowadays, but I think rich people are often rich for a reason and know how to market their products. Especially in Zenimax/Bethesda. Their PR is almost always better than the games themselves ("Radiant AI!!!"), so them screwing up this bad is strange.

  • ZefireZefire lol, CAPosts: 676Member
    I think that elder scrolls 5 is the last elder scrolls they released so they take their last approach as elder scrolls online.If they fail they dont care they just wanna see if they will earn any money from this.Elder scrolls as a a single player will never exist again.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    They've already started preliminary work on tes 6 havent they?

    You do realise tes6 and TESO are being built by separate studios right?.
  • GaladournGaladourn AthensPosts: 1,052Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    They've already started preliminary work on tes 6 havent they?

    You do realise tes6 and TESO are being built by separate studios right?.

    no matter how many times this is repeated, people still don't get it...

  • hardiconhardicon jackson, MSPosts: 358Member

    i hope its not solely first person or at least not the type of first person where all you see is a disembodies arm holding a weapon.  that type of view plays hell with people with motion sickness, or at least with me.  over the shoulder camera angle like wow is fine.

    either way im not that worried about it, ill play this game most likely but its not like im really hyped and wouldnt really care if it went under.  so sick of boring mmos that i just dont get excited about any of them anymore.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    I get more dizziness from third person games,especially lazy console ports trapped on a low for and gw2 if I don't twiddle with the camera controls.
  • AdamTMAdamTM Frankfurt Am MainPosts: 1,376Member
    Originally posted by Scalpless

    Hiring an outsider to do MMORPG PR sounds like a very stupid move. I don't know much about how other companies do business, but I know that ANet's PR people are usually also the community managers, so they read the forums, organise in-game events from time to time (although they stopped doing that because of dickish players IIRC) and play the game at least a bit. Also, Funcom's designers handle their PR, and designers usually know what the genre is about.

    I know saying all "suits" are idiots is the cool thing to do nowadays, but I think rich people are often rich for a reason and know how to market their products. Especially in Zenimax/Bethesda. Their PR is almost always better than the games themselves ("Radiant AI!!!"), so them screwing up this bad is strange.

    Thats why I said MMOs are -different.

    Beth and Zenimax have extensive knowledge what to say to their customer base when it comes to their offline TES/Fallout franchise, but they have no hint at whats going on in the MMO space.

    WoW has been designated a success, so they market to WoW standard, while not understanding that WoW is a dinosaur design, slowly dying of old age.

    They also don't get that nowadays customer taste change from year to year as their gaming experience grows. Sure, you can always capture your noob demographic that never heard of an (MMO)RPG, but nowadays that percentage is rapidly shrinking. Most of my nephews (8-10yo) already started with F2P MMORPGs like Champions online. At age 16 they will want something else than the WoW formula and will have enough experience to distinguish cheap "knockoff toys" from quality releases.

    The amount of clueless gamers is shrinking as the internet and games permeate society.

    Companies are just too slow to react with their policies and strategies, they can't keep up with the change, some of us old players cant keep up with the chane either.

    image
  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    They've already started preliminary work on tes 6 havent they?

    You do realise tes6 and TESO are being built by separate studios right?.

    No, there has been no mention of TES6 whatsoever, the only rumors about BGS' next project are of Fallout 4 and they are just rumors.

    Much of their team is still busy with Skyrim DLC anyway.

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