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  • lifeordinarylifeordinary Member Posts: 646
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by lifeordinary
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Tardcore
    You know what this whole kerfuffle reminds me of? When FFXIV announced their Fatigue System.

    It reminds me of the fact that the mmo community has generally gone to shit.

    Stop your generalization. This topic has lot of genuine concerns and questions. 

    Players were blasting through content to get rewards at a rate that ANET felt was unintended. ANET put in diminishing returns as opposed to lock outs to bring rewards within what they consider "reason" whilst still allowing people to speed run to their hearts content.

     

    It is still incredibly easy to get mats for crafting by rotating maps/zones and farming outside of DE's/Dungeons. So (but I can't craft) is not a viable comment

     

    ANET may have dropped a ball by not fixing a "cap" in the first place, they would have dropped more of a ball by not fixing what they felt was not working at all. Or are we saying they should not fix the game to match their intended vision?

     

    People are getting pissy because they cannot get teh super dooper looking items in 5 minutes flat.

     

    So no, not a great deal of genuine concerns as far as I can see.

    Yeah that is matter of opinion because for you it is not a genuine concern. Still no reason to generalise the community. I did say please didn't i?

    Also, i already answered to this 'it wasn't intended way by Anet'. But you never replied.

  • sr7olsnipersr7olsniper Member UncommonPosts: 206
    Originally posted by ForumPvP

    Play our way, or don't play...

    GW2 system ported to WoW battlegrounds

    kill 10 players in 10 minutes  and earn 100 honor.

    kill 100 players in 20 minutes  and earn 200 honor.

    and in gw2 its a good system,revolutionary?

     

    I would argue WoW is doing it a lot better tehse days specailly in MoP, at least if we are talking time to reward ratio. Which at the end equates more people doing your content and "having fun" to a certain degree. 

    At least with a sub game they know that people won't tolerate bullshit and leave. With anet we have no recourse but to buy our own lube so our assholes don't get too stretched out from getting bent over a table at Anets will. - Hrimnir

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper Member CommonPosts: 2,751
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper

     

     

    I don't recall seeing anything in the EULA about a specific set return rate of rewards that every player was entitled to? Perhaps you can find that part for us?

    I dont know if you are trolling or being serious for that question. What I mean by the EULA part is that tehy are not violating the terms of service, aka using bots, hacks, exploits to get an unfair advantage. What the speed runners are doing is within their right since they are playiung the game normally. If you want to fix the issue then you do a small lock out for the people that kill 1 or 2 bosses and leave without completing. But if you give ht eplayers the choice to select 1 out of X amounts of paths and they all give the same rewards but 1 is shorter then it is a no brainer that the players will choose the easiest way out. Anet basically punished the players for being human and that is teh whole point of this thread. If they want to do the slowest time on the dungeon let them do it. Adjust the rewards so that overtime it shouldnt matter which one you do, however they did not do that, htye flat out eliminate rewards after Xammount of farms or tries on a dungeon. 

    Speed runners can still speed run. Given you brought up the EULA it is rather amusing that you think I am the one trolling here.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • babacbabac Member UncommonPosts: 179
    Originally posted by KhinRunite
    GW2 as it stands right now is anti-farmers. Sucks to be a farmer right now.

    +1

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper Member CommonPosts: 2,751
    Originally posted by lifeordinary
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by lifeordinary
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Tardcore
     

     

     

    Yeah that is matter of opinion because for you it is not a genuine concern. Still no reason to generalise the community. I did say please didn't i?

    Also, i already answered to this 'it wasn't intended way by Anet'. But you never replied.

    I must have missed that post, I'll have a look now.

     

    EDIT: I gather it is the post about statistical advantage from gear, and if non is given who cares if people get it straight away? If that is the case then ANET clearly cares who gets the skins straight away as it is part of the longer term progression of the game.

     

    Personally I couldn't give a toss myself, if someone wants to grind the crap 24/7 for a skin then fair play to them.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • sr7olsnipersr7olsniper Member UncommonPosts: 206
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper

     

     

    I don't recall seeing anything in the EULA about a specific set return rate of rewards that every player was entitled to? Perhaps you can find that part for us?

    I dont know if you are trolling or being serious for that question. What I mean by the EULA part is that tehy are not violating the terms of service, aka using bots, hacks, exploits to get an unfair advantage. What the speed runners are doing is within their right since they are playiung the game normally. If you want to fix the issue then you do a small lock out for the people that kill 1 or 2 bosses and leave without completing. But if you give ht eplayers the choice to select 1 out of X amounts of paths and they all give the same rewards but 1 is shorter then it is a no brainer that the players will choose the easiest way out. Anet basically punished the players for being human and that is teh whole point of this thread. If they want to do the slowest time on the dungeon let them do it. Adjust the rewards so that overtime it shouldnt matter which one you do, however they did not do that, htye flat out eliminate rewards after Xammount of farms or tries on a dungeon. 

    Speed runners can still speed run. Given you brought up the EULA it is rather amusing that you think I am the one trolling here.

    No one speeds runs or runs anything for the matter to not get anything. If you think people will run somethign over and over again for no purpose whatsoever then you are delusional. Check my post with Chrono Trigger so you can understand my point. The fact that they are not getting locked out, but just punished for doing what they like is the whole point. Specially since the gear supposedly is just cosmetic and there is no big difference between the gear the speed runners can get and the other one the regular ppl can get. 

    At least with a sub game they know that people won't tolerate bullshit and leave. With anet we have no recourse but to buy our own lube so our assholes don't get too stretched out from getting bent over a table at Anets will. - Hrimnir

  • ForumPvPForumPvP Member Posts: 871
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    Originally posted by ForumPvP

    Play our way, or don't play...

    GW2 system ported to WoW battlegrounds

    kill 10 players in 10 minutes  and earn 100 honor.

    kill 100 players in 20 minutes  and earn 200 honor.

    and in gw2 its a good system,revolutionary?

     

    I would argue WoW is doing it a lot better tehse days specailly in MoP, at least if we are talking time to reward ratio. Which at the end equates more people doing your content and "having fun" to a certain degree. 

    Makes me wonder ,do they  have this system on WvWvW also,honor badges will not drop if people kills enemies too fast.

    Is there a cap for those also,is it 100% drop ?

    Now if they control this on PvE side ,why not in PvP as well,if its so good system.

    all roads lead to Rome,i mean cash shop.

     

     

    Let's internet

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Connmacart
     

     

     

     

     

    That's right, I don't think it is a good idea either to let one repeatable task give so easy gain that other tasks become pointless in relation to it. However, there are other methods to solve it, like the token change depending on path like suggested above.

    Reducing loot does not reduce freedom. You still have the option to take that method to get that loot, your rate just decreases in order that you will no longer get the loot at a rate disproportionate to every other task.

     

    Surely changing the tokens dependant upon the path falls into exactly the same line of "its against freedom" thinking you posited before? If I want to run one route over and over again, you are reducing mah freedomz if you make token change dependant upon path.

     

    "2 more for speed run of x" goes up the cry! I don't buy the whole "freedom" argument at all, it is all about people getting bent out of shape about not getting complete sets within an insanely short amount of time.

     

    I am arguing that the amount of "viable choices" dictate how much freedom you have. Maybe it doesn't have to be actual mathematically viable choices, maybe it is just enough that the persons perceive the options as viable. What is "viable" is of course a matter of opinion.

     

    Making only one progression path viable, is bad then from a freedom-stance. Which is why I find it good that they fix such balance issues. The token suggestion, suggested above, would make multiple dungeon paths viable. The current "solutioN" is horrible from a freedom-perspective compared to other solutions.

  • NadiaNadia Member UncommonPosts: 11,798
    Originally posted by Xasapis
    Originally posted by Nadia

    Every mmo released has exploits due to code or oversights

    thats what patches and hotfixes are for

    So now if a dungeon has an easy way to beat the end boss and a harder way, if people choose the easy way they are exploiters? 

    my comment was specifically about one dungeon -  COF not being "bait and switch"

    the developer listed 3 things he changed,  2 of them changed because players were bypassing with workarounds

    https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/dungeons/The-CoF-Buff-My-opinions/page/2#post158017

    taking advantage of a couple bugs found in the same chain, and our leashing/aggro system. I played with groups who did this, and watched you-tube clips of what was going on.

    The problems I identified with the speed run aspect of this are as follows:
    1. You just need 1 person to get to the magmacyte across the magma field. This will cause an invulnerable Magg to run across the entire field through mobs and progress the dungeon. Then this person teleports back.
    2. Instead of fighting the enemies in a timed event at he door buster, you just circle strafe them or leash aggro them to “kill the clock” since it was only a 100 second timer on the event.

    So what did I do?
    1. I made it so that Magg has to get to the other side of the Magma field and close to the magmacyte – not just a player. Magg not taking aggro from nearby enemies was a big reason for this issue to be resolved. By giving him aggro, and forcing you to escort him to the ending, I fixed what I considered to be a bug/exploit that I introduced through poor planning.
    2. I extended the time from 100 seconds to 200 seconds at the Door Buster event. I intended for you to fight those guys, not circle strafe them and aggro leash chain them. I also added 1 additional mob to the encounter at the very middle (a bow dude) to account for you now having twice the time to defeat the waves that come in.

     

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper Member CommonPosts: 2,751
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper

     

     

     

     

     

    No one speeds runs or runs anything for the matter to not get anything. If you think people will run somethign over and over again for no purpose whatsoever then you are delusional. Check my post with Chrono Trigger so you can understand my point. The fact that they are not getting locked out, but just punished for doing what they like is the whole point. Specially since the gear supposedly is just cosmetic and there is no big difference between the gear the speed runners can get and the other one the regular ppl can get. 

    I know exactly why people speed run, I do it myself in most mmos. It is done to get lootz as quickly as possible.
    If though people are able to speed run for loot faster then the devs intended to be possible for a game, it is clear as day that it should be changed.

     

    Diminishing returns is a better system then lockouts. DR allows players who enjoy the gameplay to keep on doing it whilst at the same time curbing loot gain. Lockouts fk everyone up.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • sr7olsnipersr7olsniper Member UncommonPosts: 206
    Originally posted by ForumPvP
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    Originally posted by ForumPvP

    Play our way, or don't play...

    GW2 system ported to WoW battlegrounds

    kill 10 players in 10 minutes  and earn 100 honor.

    kill 100 players in 20 minutes  and earn 200 honor.

    and in gw2 its a good system,revolutionary?

     

    I would argue WoW is doing it a lot better tehse days specailly in MoP, at least if we are talking time to reward ratio. Which at the end equates more people doing your content and "having fun" to a certain degree. 

    Makes me wonder ,do they  have this system on WvWvW also,honor badges will not drop if people kills enemies too fast.

    Is there a cap for those also,is it 100% drop ?

    Now if they control this on PvE side ,why not in PvP as well,if its so good system.

    all roads lead to Rome,i mean cash shop.

     

     

    That is the elepahnt in the room that apperently the diehard fans dont want to see. It is all pointing at teh cash shop at teh moment and that really makes Anet seem desperate to the extreme. Funny thing is, if they had pull this stunt on a subscription game right about now you would be reading the "X ammount of ppl unsubbed" threads. 

    At least with a sub game they know that people won't tolerate bullshit and leave. With anet we have no recourse but to buy our own lube so our assholes don't get too stretched out from getting bent over a table at Anets will. - Hrimnir

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper Member CommonPosts: 2,751
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Connmacart
     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I am arguing that the amount of "viable choices" dictate how much freedom you have. Maybe it doesn't have to be actual mathematically viable choices, maybe it is just enough that the persons perceive the options as viable. What is "viable" is of course a matter of opinion.

     

    Making only one progression path viable, is bad then from a freedom-stance. Which is why I find it good that they fix such balance issues. The token suggestion, suggested above, would make multiple dungeon paths viable. The current "solutioN" is horrible from a freedom-perspective compared to other solutions.

    Please reiterate the token suggestion again.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • sr7olsnipersr7olsniper Member UncommonPosts: 206
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper

     

     

     

     

     

    No one speeds runs or runs anything for the matter to not get anything. If you think people will run somethign over and over again for no purpose whatsoever then you are delusional. Check my post with Chrono Trigger so you can understand my point. The fact that they are not getting locked out, but just punished for doing what they like is the whole point. Specially since the gear supposedly is just cosmetic and there is no big difference between the gear the speed runners can get and the other one the regular ppl can get. 

    I know exactly why people speed run, I do it myself in most mmos. It is done to get lootz as quickly as possible.
    If though people are able to speed run for loot faster then the devs intended to be possible for a game, it is clear as day that it should be changed.

     

    Diminishing returns is a better system then lockouts. DR allows players who enjoy the gameplay to keep on doing it whilst at the same time curbing loot gain. Lockouts fk everyone up.

    But that wasnt the only option I gave, I said lock outs or weekly cap. The cap seems a better option for you at least and it is something that already works on other games. Like I said, no player wants to be punished and diminishing returns in fact punishes the player. It is not about if at the end of the day it is teh same, but the way it is persieved. If you read the posts about FF14 diminishing system you will see the same argument. It is never about making the overall gameplay fair but about how they go with doing it. If you take stuff away from a player then they will fight it back. A better solution wouldve been to give smaller rewards fromt eh get go and have it rump up as you go. At the end of the day its the same but one decreases while the other one increases. Do you see my point?

     

    At least with a sub game they know that people won't tolerate bullshit and leave. With anet we have no recourse but to buy our own lube so our assholes don't get too stretched out from getting bent over a table at Anets will. - Hrimnir

  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    ...

    Please reiterate the token suggestion again.

    Allow me to repeat my post:

    <div cfbody"="">

    Or simply reward the harder paths with more rewards:

    • Path A takes 20mins? Give 20 tokens total
    • Path B takes 40mins? Give 40 tokens
    • Path C takes 2 hours? Give 120 tokens
    That way you'd have a choice, do I do the easiest path until I get sick of it or just go for the others as well, knowing it will take more time but it'll be worth it?

    They wouldn't even need to adjust the difficulty between the paths. They'd only need to adjust the challenge vs reward ratio.

    If somebody is taking advantage of a bugged mob or mobs are not behaving as intended (please fix the underwater mobs constantly resetting), then I see no problem with that. Unfortunately for us, Anet didn't put the diminishing returns because there were bugs, the bugs will eventually get ironed out. They put the roadblocks because people were getting too much gold to keep the gem store relevant.
  • OmnifishOmnifish Member Posts: 616
    Originally posted by MurlockDance
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    Originally posted by Draftbeer

    There is no official word on this yet, so I'm hoping that Anet just made a fatal mistake

    and they fix it asap...

     

    Anti-grind system for farming mobs was one thing, but for events? Big nono.

     

    Dungeons was somehow understandable so ppl don't run only one dungeon

    all the time. (I put this action in the grey zone, white = ok, black = bad)

    Other games have had WAY better forms of counter bot implementations. What Anet did is, quite frankly, boreding on communism. Then again, they dont really care since there is no subscription and if people quit the game it wont hurt their bottom line.  

    Bots are always an issue, every game has botters and hackers, but you never punish your playerbase to solve the problem. Now even more than before, players are going to just go buy gold fromt he farmers because Anet just did it harder for them to grind for their stuff and the farmers actually undercut Anet in gem prices so that is hilarious.

    If you dont want people to run dungoens consequitively you put a lock out to the whole dungeon, you dont punish a player for choosing path A over path B, specially whent hey claimed their game was all about freedom and your story. Well guess what, its your story but you can only do what we tell you to do, otherwise you are banned/penilized.  

    You apparently do not know what communism is. ANet's actions have nothing to do with communism.

    You mean over-regulation. They are attempting to regulate the ingame economy by keeping people (gold farmers? bots?) from flooding the markets with items/mats/etc. and ingame currency and creating havoc with prices.

    The changes suck... no bones about it.

    I'd say their trying to overregulate the economy so your more likely to go to the CS and buy gems for gold. They can dress it up however they like but the cynic in me says this is the most likely reason.  

    Basically if your the sort of player who likes to play the economics models and come out at a profit, this really isn't the game for you.

    P.S. Communism has an economic angle to it as well as political.  Communism economically overregulates market supply and demand to eliminate free enterprise and growth in public markets, to maintain the political agenda. So considering that I think he's point has merit.

    This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper Member CommonPosts: 2,751
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper

     

     

     

     

     

     

    But that wasnt the only option I gave, I said lock outs or weekly cap. The cap seems a better option for you at least and it is something that already works on other games. Like I said, no player wants to be punished and diminishing returns in fact punishes the player. It is not about if at the end of the day it is teh same, but the way it is persieved. If you read the posts about FF14 diminishing system you will see the same argument. It is never about making the overall gameplay fair but about how they go with doing it. If you take stuff away from a player then they will fight it back. A better solution wouldve been to give smaller rewards fromt eh get go and have it rump up as you go. At the end of the day its the same but one decreases while the other one increases. Do you see my point?

     

    Lock outs punish the player far more then DR, they stop someone from playing.

    A weekly cap is potentially a better option.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • PieRadPieRad Member Posts: 1,108
    Originally posted by Caliburn101
    Originally posted by PieRad
    Originally posted by Caliburn101
    Originally posted by PieRad
    Originally posted by Caliburn101
    Originally posted by AvatarBlade
    -snip-
    -snip-
    -snip-
    -snip-
    -snip- You can't have better weapons than exotic CoF weapons, they are all the same statwise.

    For example: Crafted exotic beserker greatsword, is exactly the same as the exotic power/precision/crit.dmg greatsword from CoF, just saying :P

    Molten weapons are level 80??

    As for the labels - 'no lifer', 'casual', 'carebear' etc. - they are just shorthand. I have been a no-lifer, a carebear and a casual myself. You can't avoid the labels even when you try - so I use them....

    ... and example of ME being lazy - true....

    Yes, when you go to the token vendor he got 2 tabs, 1 for rares, and 1 for exotics, and the exos are lvl 80, not sure about the rares though, they might be lower.

    image

  • RaekonRaekon Member UncommonPosts: 531
    Originally posted by Voiidiin
    Originally posted by Raekon
    Originally posted by Voiidiin
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Voiidiin
    Originally posted by Scalpless
     for dungeons, you can run them as often as you want, as long as you don't just run the same path of the same dungeon over and over again.

    You are wrong about dungeons, after running TA then CM story, i went to AC and was capped.

    the cap is based on how fast you complete them

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/365276/ANET-commentary-on-patched-dungeons.html

    If you speed clear dungeons at a rate of more than 2/ hour, and continue to do that for some time your rewards will slowly begin to degrade. It doesn't kick in after running a single dungeon and it doesn't immediately zero out rewards.

     

    Sure thats fine, dungeons were really not my main gripe it was the arbitrary caps they placed on DEs and Mob killing/rewards.

    Its pretty clear you guys are only picking portions of my OP to suit your view of the game, its the whole update they released that basically makes players play only a specific way when it comes to the PvE.

    As i have already said, i am a big fan of GW2, this update has soured me on it though. 

     

    Were you one of the guys that were indeed botting so the patch gave you a restriction upon it?

    Just asking cause you are coming across that way.

     

    This is just plain inflammatory, and an attempt to try and marginalize my view on the changes made to the game. Did i say something to insult you in anyway, shape, or form ?

    NO.

    Where in all that i have posted in this entire thread have i ever given the impression i was a botter ? You are simply trying to turn a discussion of game changes into a flame war and you should be ashamed at the your words you typed. 

    Because i want to get materials for my crafting professions for me and my son you attempt to label me as a illegal player who is considered substandard to others, all because you disagree with how i view the recent changes ArenaNet made to the game.

    I will not argue with you about the rest of your post because it only feeds into your incendiary attitude towards others who do not conform to your way of thinking. It's your opinion and you are very welcome to it.

    If you want to have an intelligent discussion about this subject (the game update not your attempt to belittle me) i will gladly discuss it with you, otherwise i would ask you try and keep personal attacks out of a very nice thread where actual players have been actually discussing something they feel passionate about.

     

    Good day sir.

    Funny how you avoid answering questions and for leaving out parts that showcase in which parts of your post you were indeed wrong.

    I didn't say you are botter nor did I bellitle anything yet you immediately were insulted and stamped me as someone that tries to start a flame war.

    Several others already pointed out that the changes shouldn't be affecting your gameplay since you can move on and go kill other type of mobs to avoid this, yet you are not interested to listen to anyone but rather keep arguing on how unfair the patch was in your particular way of playing.

    As I said I have 8 characters, getting materials with each and everyone of them as I go without any limitations affecting me.

    Your dungeons argument were already answered by others and me through even a official answer that were added in this thread by someone else.

    After that however you claimed that it wasn't your primary problem/issue contradicting your own post.

    This type of behaviour shows that you don't care what other ways are there to avoid being affected by the patch but rather want what you want, the way that you want it and don't care about anything else.

    With that said, you should be the one to be ashamed here upon your immature and selfish approach before you say other people about what they should be ashamed off.

    Good day to you too!

  • sr7olsnipersr7olsniper Member UncommonPosts: 206
    Originally posted by Omnifish
    Originally posted by MurlockDance
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    Originally posted by Draftbeer

    There is no official word on this yet, so I'm hoping that Anet just made a fatal mistake

    and they fix it asap...

     

    Anti-grind system for farming mobs was one thing, but for events? Big nono.

     

    Dungeons was somehow understandable so ppl don't run only one dungeon

    all the time. (I put this action in the grey zone, white = ok, black = bad)

    Other games have had WAY better forms of counter bot implementations. What Anet did is, quite frankly, boreding on communism. Then again, they dont really care since there is no subscription and if people quit the game it wont hurt their bottom line.  

    Bots are always an issue, every game has botters and hackers, but you never punish your playerbase to solve the problem. Now even more than before, players are going to just go buy gold fromt he farmers because Anet just did it harder for them to grind for their stuff and the farmers actually undercut Anet in gem prices so that is hilarious.

    If you dont want people to run dungoens consequitively you put a lock out to the whole dungeon, you dont punish a player for choosing path A over path B, specially whent hey claimed their game was all about freedom and your story. Well guess what, its your story but you can only do what we tell you to do, otherwise you are banned/penilized.  

    You apparently do not know what communism is. ANet's actions have nothing to do with communism.

    You mean over-regulation. They are attempting to regulate the ingame economy by keeping people (gold farmers? bots?) from flooding the markets with items/mats/etc. and ingame currency and creating havoc with prices.

    The changes suck... no bones about it.

    I'd say their trying to overregulate the economy so your more likely to go to the CS and buy gems for gold. They can dress it up however they like but the cynic in me says this is the most likely reason.  

    Basically if your the sort of player who likes to play the economics models and come out at a profit, this really isn't the game for you.

    P.S. Communism has an economic angle to it as well as political.  Communism economically overregulates market supply and demand to eliminate free enterprise and growth in public markets, to maintain the political agenda. So considering that I think he's point has merit.

    This is also true, and while my train of thought was about the political aspects of it, you have explained the problem with these changes better than I could. 

    At least with a sub game they know that people won't tolerate bullshit and leave. With anet we have no recourse but to buy our own lube so our assholes don't get too stretched out from getting bent over a table at Anets will. - Hrimnir

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155
     

    Edit: just noticed that the original poster reposted his as reply, so my quoting is not necessary.

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper Member CommonPosts: 2,751
    Originally posted by Xasapis
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    ...

    Please reiterate the token suggestion again.

    Allow me to repeat my post:

    <div cfbody"="">

    Or simply reward the harder paths with more rewards:

    • Path A takes 20mins? Give 20 tokens total
    • Path B takes 40mins? Give 40 tokens
    • Path C takes 2 hours? Give 120 tokens
    That way you'd have a choice, do I do the easiest path until I get sick of it or just go for the others as well, knowing it will take more time but it'll be worth it?

    They wouldn't even need to adjust the difficulty between the paths. They'd only need to adjust the challenge vs reward ratio.

    If somebody is taking advantage of a bugged mob or mobs are not behaving as intended (please fix the underwater mobs constantly resetting), then I see no problem with that. Unfortunately for us, Anet didn't put the diminishing returns because there were bugs, the bugs will eventually get ironed out. They put the roadblocks because people were getting too much gold to keep the gem store relevant.

    The sliding scale looks good, but the problem is that people are getting tokens too quickly (as far as ANET are concerned). If people can get 20 tokens in 20 mins and do that all day long, then that will still seem excessive. Just having different rewards for different paths does not alter that.

     

     

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Xasapis
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    ...

    Please reiterate the token suggestion again.

    Allow me to repeat my post:

    <div cfbody"="">

    Or simply reward the harder paths with more rewards:

    • Path A takes 20mins? Give 20 tokens total
    • Path B takes 40mins? Give 40 tokens
    • Path C takes 2 hours? Give 120 tokens
    That way you'd have a choice, do I do the easiest path until I get sick of it or just go for the others as well, knowing it will take more time but it'll be worth it?

    They wouldn't even need to adjust the difficulty between the paths. They'd only need to adjust the challenge vs reward ratio.

    If somebody is taking advantage of a bugged mob or mobs are not behaving as intended (please fix the underwater mobs constantly resetting), then I see no problem with that. Unfortunately for us, Anet didn't put the diminishing returns because there were bugs, the bugs will eventually get ironed out. They put the roadblocks because people were getting too much gold to keep the gem store relevant.

    The sliding scale looks good, but the problem is that people are getting tokens too quickly (as far as ANET are concerned). If people can get 20 tokens in 20 mins and do that all day long, then that will still seem excessive. Just having different rewards for different paths does not alter that.

     

     

    That's a good point and it can be solved by lock-outs or just nerfing the token gains to a lower token/minute ratio. I would prefer those solutions over the current one.

  • sr7olsnipersr7olsniper Member UncommonPosts: 206
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Xasapis
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    ...

    Please reiterate the token suggestion again.

    Allow me to repeat my post:

    <div cfbody"="">

    Or simply reward the harder paths with more rewards:

    • Path A takes 20mins? Give 20 tokens total
    • Path B takes 40mins? Give 40 tokens
    • Path C takes 2 hours? Give 120 tokens
    That way you'd have a choice, do I do the easiest path until I get sick of it or just go for the others as well, knowing it will take more time but it'll be worth it?

    They wouldn't even need to adjust the difficulty between the paths. They'd only need to adjust the challenge vs reward ratio.

    If somebody is taking advantage of a bugged mob or mobs are not behaving as intended (please fix the underwater mobs constantly resetting), then I see no problem with that. Unfortunately for us, Anet didn't put the diminishing returns because there were bugs, the bugs will eventually get ironed out. They put the roadblocks because people were getting too much gold to keep the gem store relevant.

    The sliding scale looks good, but the problem is that people are getting tokens too quickly (as far as ANET are concerned). If people can get 20 tokens in 20 mins and do that all day long, then that will still seem excessive. Just having different rewards for different paths does not alter that.

     

     

    It actually Does. If you see it this way, you run 2 dungones 20 minutes each for 40 tokens total or 1 dungeon that takes 40 mins for 40 tokens. At the end of the day it is the same winnings per time ration but the player has the choice to decide how they want to play the game. Ultimetaly the earnings will be the same no matter what in a given amount of time but the players has freedom to choose whatever fits their playstyle

    At least with a sub game they know that people won't tolerate bullshit and leave. With anet we have no recourse but to buy our own lube so our assholes don't get too stretched out from getting bent over a table at Anets will. - Hrimnir

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper Member CommonPosts: 2,751
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Xasapis
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    ...

     

     

     

    It actually Does. If you see it this way, you run 2 dungones 20 minutes each for 40 tokens total or 1 dungeon that takes 40 mins for 40 tokens. At the end of the day it is the same winnings per time ration but the player has the choice to decide how they want to play the game. Ultimetaly the earnings will be the same no matter what in a given amount of time but the players has freedom to choose whatever fits their playstyle

    ANET don't seem to be concerned about how many dungeons you are running, they are concerned about the rewards you are getting within x time frame from dungeons.

     

    The crux of the issue is that ANET don't want people getting the rewards as fast as they have been and if you don't place a cap or DR on the number of dungeon runs you can do, or the rewards you get from them. Then scaling system does nothing to solve that problem. Unless the tokens given per run are reduced in order to fall within ANET's expectations regardless of how many runs a day you do.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • sr7olsnipersr7olsniper Member UncommonPosts: 206
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Xasapis
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    ...

     

     

     

    It actually Does. If you see it this way, you run 2 dungones 20 minutes each for 40 tokens total or 1 dungeon that takes 40 mins for 40 tokens. At the end of the day it is the same winnings per time ration but the player has the choice to decide how they want to play the game. Ultimetaly the earnings will be the same no matter what in a given amount of time but the players has freedom to choose whatever fits their playstyle

    ANET don't seem to be concerned about how many dungeons you are running, they are concerned about the rewards you are getting within x time frame from dungeons.

     

    The crux of the issue is that ANET don't want people getting the rewards as fast as they have been and if you don't place a cap or DR on the number of dungeon runs you can do, or the rewards you get from them. Then scaling system does nothing to solve that problem. Unless the tokens given per run are reduced in order to fall within ANET's expectations regardless of how many runs a day you do.

    Again that is a better solution than the curretn one. It is all a motter of perspective same issue with FF14. IF you reduce the takens toa fix ration people wont complain. however if you do DR people will take it as punishment, rightfuly so, and complain. 

    At least with a sub game they know that people won't tolerate bullshit and leave. With anet we have no recourse but to buy our own lube so our assholes don't get too stretched out from getting bent over a table at Anets will. - Hrimnir

This discussion has been closed.