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  • DanitaKusorDanitaKusor Member UncommonPosts: 556

    I've never run into any problems with dynamic events not giving rewards and I do every one I come across.  I have seen the anti-farming thing in action when trying to get mats for crafting my level 35 rare gear however.

    Bots were becoming a significant problem though.  I've seen multiple locations where bot had set up camp because they could be certain that an event was going to repeat itself every 10mins or so.  That in my opinion is a failure of the game, it shouldn't have easily predictable events like that... although I will note all the locations I've seen have been in the sub level 30 areas.  Later areas I haven't seen as many bots about.

    As for farming, it's pretty much a waste of time anyway until you get to 70+.  At the moment you are better off selling all the loot you get and buying the mats off the TP.  That's what I ended up doing for my Mesmer.  Cost me around 35s all up for a full set of rare gear which was about the price of 1 piece on the TP.

    The Enlightened take things Lightly

  • sr7olsnipersr7olsniper Member UncommonPosts: 206
    Originally posted by MurlockDance
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    Originally posted by Draftbeer

    There is no official word on this yet, so I'm hoping that Anet just made a fatal mistake

    and they fix it asap...

     

    Anti-grind system for farming mobs was one thing, but for events? Big nono.

     

    Dungeons was somehow understandable so ppl don't run only one dungeon

    all the time. (I put this action in the grey zone, white = ok, black = bad)

    Other games have had WAY better forms of counter bot implementations. What Anet did is, quite frankly, boreding on communism. Then again, they dont really care since there is no subscription and if people quit the game it wont hurt their bottom line.  

    Bots are always an issue, every game has botters and hackers, but you never punish your playerbase to solve the problem. Now even more than before, players are going to just go buy gold fromt he farmers because Anet just did it harder for them to grind for their stuff and the farmers actually undercut Anet in gem prices so that is hilarious.

    If you dont want people to run dungoens consequitively you put a lock out to the whole dungeon, you dont punish a player for choosing path A over path B, specially whent hey claimed their game was all about freedom and your story. Well guess what, its your story but you can only do what we tell you to do, otherwise you are banned/penilized.  

    You apparently do not know what communism is. ANet's actions have nothing to do with communism.

    You mean over-regulation. They are attempting to regulate the ingame economy by keeping people (gold farmers? bots?) from flooding the markets with items/mats/etc. and ingame currency and creating havoc with prices.

    The changes suck... no bones about it.

    Umm, yes that was my bad communism is a economical theory. What i meant to say is a Dictatorship, the oposite of a Democracy. Their manifesto was all about having a world where you could do whatever you wanted to do (as long as it didnt go agasint the EULA), but what they have done now borders on something North Korea would do. 

    At least with a sub game they know that people won't tolerate bullshit and leave. With anet we have no recourse but to buy our own lube so our assholes don't get too stretched out from getting bent over a table at Anets will. - Hrimnir

  • ShakyMoShakyMo Member CommonPosts: 7,207
    Oh also some sort of "cloth nodes"
  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337
    Originally posted by Draftbeer
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper
    ...

    Funny thing, this reminds me of FF14 penalization system. It was the same garbage and everyone roared about it. Looks like Anet have no clue wtf they are doing. 

    Since when Jay Wilson working for ANet?

    What strikes me as weird is that they could have implemented lockouts on dungeons if they wanted people to play a token time length. Instead they got this system that basically forces people to spread their time in multiple dungeon and artificially prolongue their stay, regardless of how successful they are. So people will end up with tokens from multiple dungeons but won't be able to make sets of the same type any time soon. Perhaps they try to prolongue the stay of people in the game.

     

    What I'm waiting to see in the next patch is diminishing returns in karma gained in WvW and I'm done with this game.

  • xpiherxpiher Member UncommonPosts: 3,310

    1) Never played GW1 did you? These systems existed in it as well

    2) You can cirumvent the anti-farming code by moving areas. As soon as you see your rewards drop, pack up and move. Yes, its that easy

    3) Dungeons being broken is a sperate issue. Once they are fixed (which they should be if they are infact broken), the anti-dungeon farming code won't be noticed if you cycle between 2-3 different paths of the same dungeon. 

    image
    Games:
    Currently playing:Nothing
    Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
    Past games:
    Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
    AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
    Warhammer - Xpiher

  • CalerxesCalerxes Member UncommonPosts: 1,641
    Originally posted by Mothanos

    Its either this or a whole game full of bots farming 24/7 weekin week out.
    It will cause massive inflation on the market and damage your time investment versus the bots.

    Sucks but you dont get banned that easy, and you can always give a answer if your reasons are justified.

    Anet just do things diffrent, its their way of the highway, i like it, you dont.
    Personal vieuw and perspective.

    Look at Aion..good god bots bots bots bots gold spamming bots bots gold spamming, and alltough you cannot stop this 100%, you can take measures to keep the number as low as posible, Anet try's this and so far its working out quite good.

    Ive seen 2 bots so far, in Aion i saw 50 bots within 1 hour.

    something has to give unfortunaly :(

     

    The problem is with Arenanet and the way they've made their game there are no bots and gold sellers in SW:TOR, any Perfect World Game, EQ2, LotRO, DDO all popular games, so how come they can do it and Arenanet cannot without implementing draconian measures?

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • VoiidiinVoiidiin Member Posts: 817
    Originally posted by DanitaKusor

    I've never run into any problems with dynamic events not giving rewards and I do every one I come across.  I have seen the anti-farming thing in action when trying to get mats for crafting my level 35 rare gear however.

    Bots were becoming a significant problem though.  I've seen multiple locations where bot had set up camp because they could be certain that an event was going to repeat itself every 10mins or so.  That in my opinion is a failure of the game, it shouldn't have easily predictable events like that... although I will note all the locations I've seen have been in the sub level 30 areas.  Later areas I haven't seen as many bots about.

    As for farming, it's pretty much a waste of time anyway until you get to 70+.  At the moment you are better off selling all the loot you get and buying the mats off the TP.  That's what I ended up doing for my Mesmer.  Cost me around 35s all up for a full set of rare gear which was about the price of 1 piece on the TP.

    That is fantastic, you play the way you enjoy to play, me i like to take my time make armor for myself my alts and my sons characters. I am not in a rush, and if i am low on a critical item i do what i have done in any MMO i have played since UO's release, i go and farm it from mobs or nodes.

    Its all fine and dandy that so many others got to do this to get to level 80 fast, but i chose to take my time, now because of my playstyle i am being penalized.

    Lolipops !

  • MurlockDanceMurlockDance Member Posts: 1,223
    Originally posted by Voiidiin
    Originally posted by KhinRunite
    GW2 as it stands right now is anti-farmers. Sucks to be a farmer right now.

    Umm how is running events in the same zone considered farming? Can you explain this to me ? DEs are suppossed to be the main source of progression in this game how does this make any sense ?

    DO NOT, try to tell me hearts are suppossed to be the main source of progression, it has been said OVER and OVER by ArenaNet that hearts are exactly NOT that.

    As the title says, ArenaNet wants you to play the way they think you should play the game, and if you do not they call you an exploiter and "Fix" how you play.

    I am not a hardcore farmer, i just want to get crafting materials for myself and my kid who plays with me, how am i int he same league as a botter who sells gold and spams chat of other players ?

    That is a good point. What it forces players to do is: farm with deminished returns, or rotate alts, or play GW2 very casually, or run to said bot runners/gold farmers/spammers to buy currency, mats, whatever. Maybe it is a way to prolong the GW2 experience image

    I think all it does is piss off the legitimate players rather than actually combat the issues of the spammers/bot runners. They will still hack peoples' accounts, jump servers, exploit systems, whatever.

    Oh well, this game is going to be competing with TL2 very soon and of course WoW for my gametime. I guess I will be playing it far more casually than expected though with all of these stupid limits. I do find it odd though, the anti-farming stuff conflicts with the daily/monthly goals. But whatever floats ANet's boat.

    Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

    image
  • KhinRuniteKhinRunite Member Posts: 879
    Originally posted by Voiidiin
    Originally posted by KhinRunite
    GW2 as it stands right now is anti-farmers. Sucks to be a farmer right now.

    Umm how is running events in the same zone considered farming? Can you explain this to me ? DEs are suppossed to be the main source of progression in this game how does this make any sense ?

    DO NOT, try to tell me hearts are suppossed to be the main source of progression, it has been said OVER and OVER by ArenaNet that hearts are exactly NOT that.

    As the title says, ArenaNet wants you to play the way they think you should play the game, and if you do not they call you an exploiter and "Fix" how you play.

    I am not a hardcore farmer, i just want to get crafting materials for myself and my kid who plays with me, how am i int he same league as a botter who sells gold and spams chat of other players ?

    I wasn't talking about that. I'm also not in favor of the DR on DE, as it can affect real exploring players as well. Also I don't believe bots actually move between DE spawn points. They usually just stay for a town defense event.

    But right now if I notice the DR kick in I'll just ignore DEs for a while...or maybe end up doing them if they're new to me.

    As for farming mats, I guess I'm in luck. I'm not the type who farms a mob for hours. When I sit down and dedicate my game time for mats farming I usually just take around 30 minutes then I cycle to different mobs. I get bored fighting the same mob for prolonged periods.

  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135

    I think u are overreacting a bit.

    The cap, as you allude to in the OP, is 30minutes. Some games lock you out of content for 24hours. All this does is prevent people from grinding the exact same piece of content, in the exact same area, forever. It forces you to change things up a bit, which is what the game was all about to begin with.

    This game was never supposed to be about grinding loot. Ever. People still do it, but that was never what this game was about. Furthermore, it's insanely easy to get gear, gold, karma, and exp in this game.  If you are upset about your ability to farm for crafting mats. How hard is it to AoE a few mobs in one part of the map for 30mins, then switch to different mobs, then different mobs, and eventually come back to the same spot later. I.E. if you're a tailor, you can farm ANY humanoid to get the matts you need. Bandits, pirates, centaurs, hylak, krait, risen.. every map is flooded with humanoids. If you need tokens / trinkets, every map also has pleanty of beasts to get your venom, blood, and claws from.

    Some of you people are acting like you've ever seen a game put caps rewards. To which I'd ask, have you ever played an MMO?

  • Tawn47Tawn47 Member Posts: 512

    Well thats a bit unfair...  ANet doesn't care how you play - but they are trying to take a pro-active approach to dealing with Bots.

    Maybe these caps are structured wrong and I suggest you keep complaining to get them to relax it somewhat.

    I have to say, much better this approach than the game dies like Aion did from the rampant bots and gold sellers which the devs seemed to do nothing about.

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper Member CommonPosts: 2,751
    Originally posted by Voiidiin
    Originally posted by DanitaKusor
     

    That is fantastic, you play the way you enjoy to play, me i like to take my time make armor for myself my alts and my sons characters. I am not in a rush, and if i am low on a critical item i do what i have done in any MMO i have played since UO's release, i go and farm it from mobs or nodes.

    Its all fine and dandy that so many others got to do this to get to level 80 fast, but i chose to take my time, now because of my playstyle i am being penalized.

    If you don't mind taking your time, how exactly is DR an issue?

     

    I'm sitting at 380 AS and 369 WS on a toon who as done nothing but wander about doing map completion with a few DE's (zero farming) btw and still have all the level 70-80 racial zones and ORR yet to do.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • DraftbeerDraftbeer Member UncommonPosts: 517
    Originally posted by xpiher

    1) Never played GW1 did you? These systems existed in it as well

    2) You can cirumvent the anti-farming code by moving areas. As soon as you see your rewards drop, pack up and move. Yes, its that easy

    3) Dungeons being broken is a sperate issue. Once they are fixed (which they should be if they are infact broken), the anti-dungeon farming code won't be noticed if you cycle between 2-3 different paths of the same dungeon. 

    Also they were stupid there as well.

    There are ways to keep the economy of a themepark healthly,

    what they do is NOT the way. Only slows down the process

    making ppl's fun less and less meanwhile.

     

    Introduce item decay but remove the DR code completely.

  • NadiaNadia Member UncommonPosts: 11,798
    Originally posted by Voiidiin
    Originally posted by Scalpless
     for dungeons, you can run them as often as you want, as long as you don't just run the same path of the same dungeon over and over again.

    You are wrong about dungeons, after running TA then CM story, i went to AC and was capped.

    the cap is based on how fast you complete them

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/365276/ANET-commentary-on-patched-dungeons.html

    If you speed clear dungeons at a rate of more than 2/ hour, and continue to do that for some time your rewards will slowly begin to degrade. It doesn't kick in after running a single dungeon and it doesn't immediately zero out rewards.

     

  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337
    Originally posted by xpiher

    1) Never played GW1 did you? These systems existed in it as well

    2) You can cirumvent the anti-farming code by moving areas. As soon as you see your rewards drop, pack up and move. Yes, its that easy

    3) Dungeons being broken is a sperate issue. Once they are fixed (which they should be if they are infact broken), the anti-dungeon farming code won't be noticed if you cycle between 2-3 different paths of the same dungeon. 

    As long as you finish any dungeon path or any dungeon in less than 30 mins the diminishing returns will kick in (once the system works properly). So if you enter a dungeon in less than 30 mins after leaving the last one, you'll activate the diminishing returns code.

    Hey all, it is my fault the updates to those 3 dungeon chains did not get into to the notes. There is a lot going on right now and as we establish our patch process sometimes things will slip through the cracks. I wanted to shed some light on the dungeon speed clear stuff as well. You should not see any diminished returns unless you.

    1) Run the same exact chain over twice in a row
    2) Complete multiple dungeons in 30 minutes or less each.

    We also reduced the rewards of completing story mode, once you have already completed it, because the rewards for story mode were never intended to be a high as they were.

    At this time, dungeons should one of the most efficient ways to level and get gold, and it is not our intention to make them feel like a grind. This is a very large game, and we have a lot of people playing it in many different ways. Right now we are working hard to make sure there are not any ways for players to circumvent the normal rewards in the game and then we will be able to look at the actual rewards and make sure they require a reasonable amount of investment.

    Dungeons are meant to be difficult and we will continue to update them to try and reach a point where the time invested to XP/Gold/Tokens is similar for each dungeon. Some right now are just too easy to complete while others may be too hard. Moving forward we will try and post more clear change notes for those dungeons we do fix.

    Thanks for your feedback, we really appreciate your desire to help us keep improving on the game.

    Jon

    You are also prohibited from running the same path twice, which makes little sense. It's normal for one path to be easier than the rest. One would expect people to run this easier path, so they gear up and handle the other paths that would reward people with more for being harder. Easier path, less rewards. Harder path, more rewards.

    Would it make much more sense if path A that is the easiest rewards 20 tokens in total, path B which is a bit harder 40, and path C which is a pain 60?

    Instead we get this convolted system, that punishes players for playing the game.

  • VoiidiinVoiidiin Member Posts: 817
    Originally posted by MurlockDance
    Originally posted by Voiidiin
    Originally posted by KhinRunite
    GW2 as it stands right now is anti-farmers. Sucks to be a farmer right now.

    Umm how is running events in the same zone considered farming? Can you explain this to me ? DEs are suppossed to be the main source of progression in this game how does this make any sense ?

    DO NOT, try to tell me hearts are suppossed to be the main source of progression, it has been said OVER and OVER by ArenaNet that hearts are exactly NOT that.

    As the title says, ArenaNet wants you to play the way they think you should play the game, and if you do not they call you an exploiter and "Fix" how you play.

    I am not a hardcore farmer, i just want to get crafting materials for myself and my kid who plays with me, how am i int he same league as a botter who sells gold and spams chat of other players ?

    That is a good point. What it forces players to do is: farm with deminished returns, or rotate alts, or play GW2 very casually, or run to said bot runners/gold farmers/spammers to buy currency, mats, whatever. Maybe it is a way to prolong the GW2 experience image

    I think all it does is piss off the legitimate players rather than actually combat the issues of the spammers/bot runners. They will still hack peoples' accounts, jump servers, exploit systems, whatever.

    Oh well, this game is going to be competing with TL2 very soon and of course WoW for my gametime. I guess I will be playing it far more casually than expected though with all of these stupid limits. I do find it odd though, the anti-farming stuff conflicts with the daily/monthly goals. But whatever floats ANet's boat.

    LOL i am Pre-loading this as we discuss this GW2 topic. Funny thing is i had zero intention of purchasing another game, i truly felt GW2 was going to occupy my time exclusively for quite sometime, now i just purchased Torchlight 2, Borderlands2, Mechwarrior Online (yes its f2p), and OMG so much fun FTL.

    But yes its rather odd how i really believed in ArenaNet's Manifesto, Promises, and basically a bunch of Hyperbole that now seems very faint.

    Lolipops !

  • MurlockDanceMurlockDance Member Posts: 1,223
    Originally posted by sr7olsniper

    Umm, yes that was my bad communism is a economical theory. What i meant to say is a Dictatorship, the oposite of a Democracy. Their manifesto was all about having a world where you could do whatever you wanted to do (as long as it didnt go agasint the EULA), but what they have done now borders on something North Korea would do. 

    Thanks for that image

    And agreed with respect to ANet but they have done similar things in GW1. They are stuck between a rock and a hard place though with the exploiters.

     

    On another point: I wonder if it is really as simple as just moving area once you stop getting nodes/mat drops/whatever. I did switch a couple times lastnight and I noticed that after a point I just didn't get drops anywhere I went. I went from level 15-25 area to Asura starter zone to Norn starter zone and I barely found any nodes where earlier this week I found lots of them. The mobs did not drop mats. This was in a 2 hour play session. I was finding lots of mats beforehand, and then suddenly none.

    The DEs all worked for me though I stopped getting rewards towards the end of the session, even though I had been in the Norn zone for only 30 minutes. I can't honestly remember if I had played 4 DEs or not but I tend not to farm DEs i.e. I try to move around and do different DEs for the sake of what little sanity I have left.

    Maybe it is bugged?

    Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

    image
  • VoiidiinVoiidiin Member Posts: 817
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Voiidiin
    Originally posted by Scalpless
     for dungeons, you can run them as often as you want, as long as you don't just run the same path of the same dungeon over and over again.

    You are wrong about dungeons, after running TA then CM story, i went to AC and was capped.

    the cap is based on how fast you complete them

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/365276/ANET-commentary-on-patched-dungeons.html

    If you speed clear dungeons at a rate of more than 2/ hour, and continue to do that for some time your rewards will slowly begin to degrade. It doesn't kick in after running a single dungeon and it doesn't immediately zero out rewards.

     

    Sure thats fine, dungeons were really not my main gripe it was the arbitrary caps they placed on DEs and Mob killing/rewards.

    Its pretty clear you guys are only picking portions of my OP to suit your view of the game, its the whole update they released that basically makes players play only a specific way when it comes to the PvE.

    As i have already said, i am a big fan of GW2, this update has soured me on it though. 

    Lolipops !

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155
    Originally posted by Mothanos

    Its either this or a whole game full of bots farming 24/7 weekin week out.
    It will cause massive inflation on the market and damage your time investment versus the bots.

    Sucks but you dont get banned that easy, and you can always give a answer if your reasons are justified.

    Anet just do things diffrent, its their way of the highway, i like it, you dont.
    Personal vieuw and perspective.

    Look at Aion..good god bots bots bots bots gold spamming bots bots gold spamming, and alltough you cannot stop this 100%, you can take measures to keep the number as low as posible, Anet try's this and so far its working out quite good.

    Ive seen 2 bots so far, in Aion i saw 50 bots within 1 hour.

    something has to give unfortunaly :(

    The honest way would to be to give easy-to-access but exact and detailed information about how large the penalty is, when it kicks in and for how long. Or, they could just have done the usual solution of giving persons X tries every Y time. 

    I would prefer the latter solution actually. 

  • lifeordinarylifeordinary Member Posts: 646
    Originally posted by xpiher

    1) Never played GW1 did you? These systems existed in it as well

    2) You can cirumvent the anti-farming code by moving areas. As soon as you see your rewards drop, pack up and move. Yes, its that easy

    3) Dungeons being broken is a sperate issue. Once they are fixed (which they should be if they are infact broken), the anti-dungeon farming code won't be noticed if you cycle between 2-3 different paths of the same dungeon. 

    And? is that somehow  going to make players feel better about it? GW2 is not GW1.

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155
    Originally posted by xpiher

    1) Never played GW1 did you? These systems existed in it as well

    2) You can cirumvent the anti-farming code by moving areas. As soon as you see your rewards drop, pack up and move. Yes, its that easy

    3) Dungeons being broken is a sperate issue. Once they are fixed (which they should be if they are infact broken), the anti-dungeon farming code won't be noticed if you cycle between 2-3 different paths of the same dungeon. 

    Yes lots of people did not play GW1 and it doesn't justify implementing it in GW2. 

  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 Member Posts: 636

    Let's be clear - running the same explorable choice in the same dungeon 100 times is not done for enjoyment of the challenge or experience - it's done for gear and the warm glow of leetism, or alternatively, to feel you have kept up with the leetists.... neither are good in my opinion, and ANet agrees with this sentiment.

    That said - it is however not right that this wasn't better managed. The OP (or anyone else) should be able to run whatever dungeons they want as many time as they want to.

    Where ANet should put in the limitations to balance economy, gently discourage leetist tendencies and mitigate the negative feedback effect of general dungeon rinse/repeaters and economy trashing matt grinders et al is with diminishing returns to keep the gulf in 'kewl' gear not getting too great between the small 24/7 minority and the 7/48 majority and the economy not getting ruined for the many by the few.

    Run it as often as you like - but you should get something like 15 tokens, 10 tokens, 5 tokens then 2 tokens per run afterwards within a 24 hour period. Grind mobs all day - but your drop vendor-trash/crafting-matts ratios should bottom out after a while. This entirely sensible and reasonable.

    No lockouts, play how you like, but you can't pimp yourself in 1 week by making your fingers bleed and then moan about the game being over for you. Nor will you have to suffer what amounts to denial of service for something you are paying for.

    A far better game-moderating method than temporary content bans.

    I may not like the 24/7 no-lifer playstyle and resultant elitist expectation on the one hand and the passive-aggressive frustration is produces on the other that it engenders, but the fact is, anyone deserves to play how they like as long as they don't exploit - and what is being discussed here is in now way an exploit and should not be treated as a 'lesser version' of one by selective play-content being blocked.

  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337

    This is what they are actually doing, diminishing returns on dungeon rewards if you are too good or too fast, diminishing returns in dynamic events if you follow the zone crowd around and do as many as you can, diminishing rewards in collecting materials if you are a crafter and your daily routine is gathering them.

     

    The only part of the game that is not hit with diminishing returns yet is WvW. Once it does, my enjoyment of the game will plummet and it'll be time to move on to some other mmorpg, with more reasonable developers.

  • UtukuMoonUtukuMoon Member Posts: 1,066
    This has nothing to do with botters and more to do with ArenaNet wanting everyone to use the cash shop.

    Did you really think that buying the game is enough for ArenaNet,nope cashshop is their bread and butter.

  • ConnmacartConnmacart Member UncommonPosts: 722
    People, step back and realise what you are whining about. You are whining about not getting a virtual item as fast as before. This is what is wrong with todays MMOs. It's not the MMOs that are the problem it is the people playing them. Like in evolution learn to adapt or die a slow painful death.
This discussion has been closed.