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Is Blizzard just that damn good, or are the rest of the developers just that bad?

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  • dead2soondead2soon Member Posts: 149
    I think that the wow dev team is one of the most lazist develeper groups out there and is one of the main reasons I quit wow. For the amount of money they rake in there should really be more frequent updates to content. Do these guys have the resouces reflecting the income the cash cow reels in? I think Blizzard laughs all the way to the back at the complacity of the playerbase.
  • GorkosGorkos Member UncommonPosts: 76

    Maybe Blizzard was once good, but lately everywhere I go I only see stuff like "D3 sucks" "WoW is dated" "WoW new expansion is for 5 year old kids" and so on. I see WAY more haters than fans, tbh. The reason why they are still considered #1 is because people got used to Blizzard being #1 back in the D2 / early WoW years... That's not the case anymore but we all know that fans are blind and WoW has a huge fanbase. It's popular but popular things are not always good. Think about Justin Bieber... WoW is the MMO world's Bieber. It's popular for some unknown reason yet you only see haters everywhere, LOL! It's a mystery.

    Anyway, now there are too many MMOs, all of them are good or not good for various reasons, but it's hard to tell which company is #1, it depends on the player... To me, Blizzard was NEVER #1 and never will be. I played D2 many many years ago, never liked it. I played WoW trial 4 times in the past years and wanted to like it but I couldn't get into it. *shrug* I guess Blizzard's stuff is just not for me.

  • ZekiahZekiah Member UncommonPosts: 2,483
    Originally posted by Badaboom
    Originally posted by Zekiah
    After playing Diablo 3, Blizzard has joined the Fail Club in my book.

    Agreed.  They use to be a company that you could trust to make a good game, but now everything is about the bottom line.  I will now scrutinize any future game from blizzard.

    Agreed. I'm taking the same approach for every company now. Burn me once...

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • Goatgod76Goatgod76 Member Posts: 1,214
    Need some knee pads and chap stick handed out in this thread.
  • korent1991korent1991 Member UncommonPosts: 1,364

    neither of those 2...

    Blizzard isn't just the old company it used to be... They showed me their capabilty with D3, CATA and now MOP that they're lacking behind the "old" self.

    I'll just leave GW2 out of this since GW2 already sold more than 2 million digital copies and the game is just awesome. It's a refresment I needed which lit up this spark for mmo in me again.

    "Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
    -------------------------------

    image
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838
    Originally posted by Rayshe

     

    I played WoW for 2 years. the only reason i played it was because i found people to play with. even that fell though after i played SWTOR i didnt want to play WoW, That however was before SWTOR ruined itself (early Beta). but afterwards i still couldn't go back to it. the game felt Dull and lifeless. then i played TSW, sorry but TSW will be holding my subscription for years to come. the game is just better.

    I am still subbed aswell. In the most fundamental way it is. It just needs more pvp, more world, and fluff.

    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • PsychowPsychow Member Posts: 1,784

    After playing GW2 and finding that the will to play is becoming a chore, I'm seriously considering buying MoP and returning to a better MMO. I can always go back to GW2, which is the best part of the B2P model.

  • GravargGravarg Member UncommonPosts: 3,424

    WoW is one of the best polished games.  And that's just the start.  They have a very good marketing team, and lots of money to market thier games.  Other than Rift, I can't recall a single mmo that bought primetime tv ads.  WoW also has the fact that it can run on just about any computer with an internet connection going for it too.

     

    I think the last thing is one of the biggest reasons why WoW is so successful.  The potential subscriptions for the game is huge.  Unlike most other games that require a computer that's no older than like 2-3 years old.  I can play WoW on a 10 year old machine just fine (except in some raids).  People that will spend $2k on a computer every 2 years is very small.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by korent1991

    neither of those 2...

    Blizzard isn't just the old company it used to be... They showed me their capabilty with D3, CATA and now MOP that they're lacking behind the "old" self.

    I'll just leave GW2 out of this since GW2 already sold more than 2 million digital copies and the game is just awesome. It's a refresment I needed which lit up this spark for mmo in me again.

    If you use sales as an indicator, D3 sells 10M copies in less than 3 months.

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper Member CommonPosts: 2,751
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by korent1991

    neither of those 2...

    Blizzard isn't just the old company it used to be... They showed me their capabilty with D3, CATA and now MOP that they're lacking behind the "old" self.

    I'll just leave GW2 out of this since GW2 already sold more than 2 million digital copies and the game is just awesome. It's a refresment I needed which lit up this spark for mmo in me again.

    If you use sales as an indicator, D3 sells 10M copies in less than 3 months.

    Sales can be a by product of quality, they are though not the direct signal of definite quality.

     

    Hype, general attatchement to a genre/trend/theme/IP, ease of use/access. Numerous factors can lead to sales figures which have zip to do with quality.

     

    Note: I am not saying said games are or are not quality and I am not saying that quality will not "out" and make an impact on sales figures. Merely that using sales to determine a products quality, especially in the short-medium term, is not always the best case to put forward.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by korent1991

    neither of those 2...

    Blizzard isn't just the old company it used to be... They showed me their capabilty with D3, CATA and now MOP that they're lacking behind the "old" self.

    I'll just leave GW2 out of this since GW2 already sold more than 2 million digital copies and the game is just awesome. It's a refresment I needed which lit up this spark for mmo in me again.

    If you use sales as an indicator, D3 sells 10M copies in less than 3 months.

    Sales can be a by product of quality, they are though not the direct signal of definite quality.

     

    Hype, general attatchement to a genre/trend/theme/IP, ease of use/access. Numerous factors can lead to sales figures which have zip to do with quality.

     

    Note: I am not saying said games are or are not quality and I am not saying that quality will not "out" and make an impact on sales figures. Merely that using sales to determine a products quality, especially in the short-medium term, is not always the best case to put forward.

    Or you can use aggregated review score on gamerankings or metacritics. D3 has i think soemthing like 89%.

    At the end of the day, since we are talking about an entertainment product, quality is in the eyes of the beholder. i like the D3 new skill system a lot, and i know there are those who hate it. I like the RMAH a lot, and i know there are those who hate it.

    There is simple no right or wrong. I suppose the ONLY dimension that people *may* agree on (and not even everyone) is whether the software works as designed without bugs .. but even that differs depending on everyone's set up.

    Thus, in this kind of discussion, i think there are two valid things to say:

    1) my personal opinion .. i like xx because of yy ... in fact, airing one's OPINION is age old in forums.

    2) State facts and let other to interpret. Like D3 sold 10M in 3 months. There is no argument about that. Or XXX game get YYY scores on metacritics. These are self-evident.

     

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Member Posts: 2,574
    Blizzard is a joke anymore.  I wont be picking up this expansion and I know at least 20 others who were dedicated fans of their games who wont either.  They along with me will be happy sieging and farming in GW2, where skill matters and fun is required.

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

  • TsaboHavocTsaboHavoc Member UncommonPosts: 435
    Wow was the first casual easy mode mmorpg with a lot of marketing and reputation behind. Ppl invested time and money in that thing and got attached to it. how many will gonna give up years of investiment for another easy casual mmorpg with less content and polish than wow? yes, not many.
  • YakkinYakkin Member Posts: 919
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    At the end of the day, since we are talking about an entertainment product, quality is in the eyes of the beholder.

    There is simply no right or wrong.

    +1. Kinda like How I consider Sonic Unleashed one of Sonic's best 3D games, yet I know it's flawed and there are people who hate the game for various reasons.

    Now to hide in my reinforced bunker from the wave of people who hate Modern Sonic games.

  • trenshodtrenshod Member UncommonPosts: 128
    Originally posted by bcbully

    Let me start by sayin I played WoW for five years, with an embarrassing amout of time  /played on just my main not to mention my 8 alts. I stopped playing about a year and a half ago, and have no plans to go back. WoW is dated, and was taken in a direction that I could not agree with. Which brought a level of distrust for Blizzard that hasn't eased yet. 

     

    With that said, how is it possible that Blizzard can take this old game with an older engine and probably sell more copies of it's 4th expansion than GW2, SwTOR, TSW and RIFT combined?! What does this say about the rest of the developers out there? How is it that Blizzard can make a game where millions of people play for years and these other developers can't make a game where most people want to play 6 months?  To be far I did play RIFT for ten months. I tip my hat to the TRION team, but that's a far cry from years. 

     

    So which one is it? Blizzard is that good, or does the rest of the industry suck that bad? It's either more of one or the other.

     

    edit - and an "e" to the "on" in the pole....

     

     

     

     

    IMO its all about timing, they were the first to bring it to market in a huge way that the masses flocked too. Once the mass of WoW fans had assembled it was just a matter of time that it exploded and now it doesn't need much fuel to feed the fire. I think the ball is in Bizzards hands as to when the WoW train stops. I don't think they have any plans of letting up at least until Titan comes out.

  • ThaneUlfgarThaneUlfgar Member Posts: 283

    I voted "Blizzard is that good."

     

    I like their games, for the most part.

     

    I like RTS games.

     

    I was not a huge fan of D3, but whatever.

  • AnnwynAnnwyn Member UncommonPosts: 2,854

    I voted for the second option, but I don't think it's because they are bad developers, they're just going at it the wrong way.

    When Blizzard set out to make WoW, they looked at older MMOs, what people liked about them, what they disliked about them, what they personally liked/disliked and how far they could take an MMORPG that puts all that knowledge together. In a way, WoW is "unique". Yes people will say "It's an EQ clone" and whatever, but had WoW only been an EQ clone I seriously don't think it'd have done so well. It worked because they put all the knowledge they had altogether, and made an MMO with all of this in mind.  I really don't like Themepark MMOs, but I've got to give credits to Blizzard on this.

    The problem with other developers however, is that they aren't looking around, they're just looking at WoW. So they gather all that knowledge about what WoW players like or dislike, what they personnaly like or dislike, and make an MMORPG with this. They'll add a few cool features and whatnot, but essentially, they're still making a WoW-like MMORPG! Blizzard set out to improve the MMORPG formula, while these developers set out to improve the WoW formula...against an MMORPG that has 7-8 years worth of content put in while they (the other developers) release a game with enough content for a launch. It's an absolutely disastrous and shortsighted way of thinking that leads to no good.

    What these developers should do is what Blizzard once did, look at the MMORPG market as a whole, and not just the single most popular P2P MMORPG in the world. If they bothered to do this, they'd know what players are actually currently looking forward to, and what players feel about current MMORPGs. There's so much to learn from other games success and failures, to ignore them is pure insanity. With this in mind, they'd finally be able to build an MMORPG that has could have an impact. 

  • MurlockDanceMurlockDance Member Posts: 1,223
    Originally posted by Fuggly
    It sayss nothing baout the developers and everything about the player base.  WoW just has brainwashed its players, and has brainead un-game-diversified morons plaaying it.

    I am starting to think that people who claim WoW players are brainwashed are brainwashed themselves. Many, many MMO players play WoW and OTHER games. Yes, there are some WoW players who have never tried anything else in the MMO genre, but most people I have come across and talked to in both WoW EU and WoW USA have played or currently play other games. I am one of them.

    There is no doubt in my mind that WoW is still one of the most polished and fun MMOs out there. Is it the best? No, it is one of the best MMOs out there, and overall the best in its style of MMO (by that I mean a quest-centric, endgame raid or PvP geargrind game).

    One does not have to be completely hide-bound to one game y'know or a moron because they happen to like something you don't.

     

    I do think that at least old Blizzard was just that damned good. I am not as sure about recent Blizzard after the D3 release. I still hold out hope for D3.

    However, if you think about it, it is not surprising that Blizzard has overall released topnotch games: they do seem to be able to attract good talent. Sometimes that good talent branches off and makes new studios that release good products too, like Runic and ANet. In that sense, Blizzard is far more than the company it is today. I would say that they have been one of the most influential companies in the gaming industry.

    And then one should compare them to what else is as big and out there: EA for example, or SOE, or NCSoft... Blizzard's reputation, although not entirely intact, is not doing as badly as some of the other companies.

    There is a new bunch of game companies cropping up who are currently indie and I have a lot of hope for. Maybe they will be the new Blizzards of the future, and hopefully Blizz will be able to continue to make good, entertaining games as well. They are going to have to play it carefully though after the D3 fiasco.

    Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

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  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591

    I gotta laugh at some of the logic in this thread

    Blizzard cant even compete and are rookies with talent such as

     http://boardgames.about.com/od/monopolyfaq/f/copies_sold.htm and http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Mario

    Apparently sales mean everything to some and if that is the case Monopoly is a much superior game to WoW or all Blizzard games combined for that matter.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • AcidonAcidon Member UncommonPosts: 796
    Originally posted by arctarus
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    So diablo 3 was "good"?

    talking about mmo here bro....

    To be fair, someone in the thread *did* actually bring up D3 and say it was good.

    I keep that dusty CE Box on my shelf to remind me of what a dupe I was.

  • AnnwynAnnwyn Member UncommonPosts: 2,854
    Originally posted by laserit

    I gotta laugh at some of the logic in this thread

    Blizzard cant even compete and are rookies with talent such as

     http://boardgames.about.com/od/monopolyfaq/f/copies_sold.htm and http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Mario

    Apparently sales mean everything to some and if that is the case Monopoly is a much superior game to WoW or all Blizzard games combined for that matter.

  • LissylLissyl Member UncommonPosts: 271
    Originally posted by Fuggly
    [mod edit]

    While I'm not sure what being 'brainead' is, it doesn't sound like something good.  Clearly, we'd all be much better off plaaying games with people like you.  Your attitude would warm anyone's day.

    Wow, just look at all the nice other players we're missing.

  • Angier2758Angier2758 Member UncommonPosts: 1,026
    Originally posted by Lissyl

    You can see the disconnect people get when discussing WoW just by reading what they type.  Like the guy who said 'the old zones have never been updated'.  Yet most of the old-world was updated with Cataclysm.  Why doesn't he know this?  Or the people who say 'Well they have all that time invested'.  Sure, time investment is a great thing, but it hasn't prevented most of us from trying other games.  One thing people forget is that more people have tried WoW and quit than people who played it at it's highest sub total (according to a Blizz employee).  People talk about GW1 selling 6 million boxes and that being half of WoW...it's not even close.  That's more like 24 million boxes (again, presuming the Blizz employee was speaking truth).  It's not that we leave other games because they're 'not like WoW'.  How can people even say that...then say that every game is a WoW knock-off in the next line?

    The core play aesthetics are different.  Blizz wanted to reach the players that no one else wanted.  Once they had their attention, they offered the most diverse set of options of any game out there, cannibalized the best features from the best new games (often making the features even better), and then topping it with (on average) excellent Customer Service.  People don't play WoW for 'the best graphics', 'the best pvp', 'the best grouping', etc.  We play WoW because on any given single day, we can do 100 million different things, with different people or alone.  Top that with a lore that is very deep (even if some parts are contradictory or redacted occasionally) layered atop gameplay that ranges from intense high-caliber difficulty (like it or not, heroic raids are -hard-) to complete mindless relaxation (fishing, for instance) and -everything- inbetween.  The big value of WoW is -choice-, and -no one- offers as much.  Not even close to as much.  WoW doesn't do any -single- thing better than -everyone- else, they just do -more-, better, than -anyone- else.  It's really not hard to understand...but it's very hard to match.

     You do realize what you said is *effectively* WoW's been out a long time... right?

    like 95% of what WoW is was built after WoW came out....

    Unfortunately I'm amazed that more gamers don't realize that no other game that comes out will have more choices.... it's impossible due to scope and cost.

     

  • LordOfPitLordOfPit Member UncommonPosts: 86
    Coming back to this thread, I can safely say that Blizzard used to be a great developer back in the days of their first titles. The Lost Vikings II was great, as were Warcraft and Starcraft. Regarding World of Warcraft, I have to say it was one of the MMO's that taught me a lot about MMO's, specifically what I dislike in an MMO and in an MMO community.
  • TomBaker_fanTomBaker_fan Member Posts: 131
    Originally posted by bcbully

     

     

    With that said, how is it possible that Blizzard can take this old game with an older engine and probably sell more copies of it's 4th expansion than GW2, SwTOR, TSW and RIFT combined?! 

     

     

     

     

    Not this time.....

    image

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