Originally posted by Yamota I would answer if I did not think the OP's question really wasn't a question rather than a statement that GW 2's "endgame" is just fine.
I do think it's fine, but I honestly want to hear from people who do not think it's fine to understand why they feel this way.
Not everything on this forum has to be fanboi/hater motivated, shocking I know .
Against my better judgement but here goes.
A good end game would be one where Guilds would actually fight each other in actual warfare. Not paintball warfare but real warfare where the the war could actually lead to the destruction of said guild.
How could this be achieved? Well for starters advancement past certain stage would allow warring guilds to attack other people, anywhere so to virtually drive them of from leveling etc. That is something I would qualify as Guild Wars rather than the stupid flipping of control points which means virtually nothing.
If that is too much hardcore PvP for the audience they are targetting they could make it so that the Dynamic Events actually meant something. In the sense that it could invade zone after zone after they are pushed back so that people were forced to hold them back or suffer the consequences, for all levels and players. This is what I imagine when they are talking about banding together to take down the dragons which threatens all. But ofcourse it is just rubbish storyline which does not actually happen.
With either of these type of endgames, PvE or PvP, the world would be a heck more dynamic than it is now.
Finally character progression in GW 2 is very weak. After level 40 there is little reason to level any further beside getting more HP, better gear and stats and after level 80 there is almost no reason. There needs to be an additional level of advancement, maybe accessable through the two end game modes I mentioned above where if you lose you actually lose access to this additional level of advancement, be it super skills or whatever.
Now this will never happen because most triple A MMORPG developers try to cater to as many as possible and having an endgame which every single player cannot "win" at would scare people of so they make it accessable (read easy) and simplistic. However I believe it can be done if there would exist a company which does not only look at how many boxes they can sell but rather focus on creating great MMORPGs.
I've seen a lot of posts complaining that GW2 has no end-game recently. But, to be honest, I really don't see how the end-game in GW2 is any worse than that in WoW. However this could just be due to my inexperience with the end game in WoW, or my specific preferences...after all, the end game to WoW never appealed to me, so I never experienced it.
So for those who think GW2 has a poor end game, could you please describe to me what you feel a good end game would be? Maybe an example game? I'm not saying this to be snide, I just honestly don't understand why people are complaining about this, and I want to understand.
Once you hit 80 there's nothing other then spvp/wvw to get you to login to that specific character anymore.
So there's nothing except a dynamically changing player driven environment to keep you logging in? That sounds a SHIT load better than raids.
Dynamically changing player driven environment?? Are we playing the same game?!
He's talking about world versus world.
which is nothing more then flipping points, waiting on timer and getting loot. :P
And there's nothing more to raids than hitting a monster until its dead. Boring.
See, I can make something sound dumb by leaving out all the features too.
But it's equally the truth. My guild, NXG, grab 30 to 40 people and we take the entire map area of our choosing then sit and wait on timer to flip (entire process is like 2 hours a night-max) and loot while we go.
With a group of 30 to 40 it's quite easy to flip points sit on them and wait for teh epic lootz.
Except unlike raiding, there's no way of telling that experience will repeat itself.
I've seen a lot of posts complaining that GW2 has no end-game recently. But, to be honest, I really don't see how the end-game in GW2 is any worse than that in WoW. However this could just be due to my inexperience with the end game in WoW, or my specific preferences...after all, the end game to WoW never appealed to me, so I never experienced it.
So for those who think GW2 has a poor end game, could you please describe to me what you feel a good end game would be? Maybe an example game? I'm not saying this to be snide, I just honestly don't understand why people are complaining about this, and I want to understand.
Once you hit 80 there's nothing other then spvp/wvw to get you to login to that specific character anymore.
So there's nothing except a dynamically changing player driven environment to keep you logging in? That sounds a SHIT load better than raids.
Dynamically changing player driven environment?? Are we playing the same game?!
He's talking about world versus world.
which is nothing more then flipping points, waiting on timer and getting loot. :P
And there's nothing more to raids than hitting a monster until its dead. Boring.
See, I can make something sound dumb by leaving out all the features too.
But it's equally the truth. My guild, NXG, grab 30 to 40 people and we take the entire map area of our choosing then sit and wait on timer to flip (entire process is like 2 hours a night-max) and loot while we go.
With a group of 30 to 40 it's quite easy to flip points sit on them and wait for teh epic lootz.
Except unlike raiding, there's no way of telling that experience will repeat itself.
Well, of course, but we haven't been stopped as of yet. (Note, it's only been 4 consecutive nights nothing long term yet.)
End game should be something you did not do before.
Take dungeons for example i always had a hard time to understand how Dungeon runs could be considered endgame if you start doing dungeons very early in the game.
I did enjoy the way FF11 handled it you started doing missions do unlock the actuall content once you were high lvl enough.
I admit there isnt much difference in Killing a God in Sky as to any other HNMS but since you had to unlock the area in a long and challanging quest series it gave you the feeling of doing something you just did not do before.
I've seen a lot of posts complaining that GW2 has no end-game recently. But, to be honest, I really don't see how the end-game in GW2 is any worse than that in WoW. However this could just be due to my inexperience with the end game in WoW, or my specific preferences...after all, the end game to WoW never appealed to me, so I never experienced it.
So for those who think GW2 has a poor end game, could you please describe to me what you feel a good end game would be? Maybe an example game? I'm not saying this to be snide, I just honestly don't understand why people are complaining about this, and I want to understand.
Once you hit 80 there's nothing other then spvp/wvw to get you to login to that specific character anymore.
So there's nothing except a dynamically changing player driven environment to keep you logging in? That sounds a SHIT load better than raids.
Dynamically changing player driven environment?? Are we playing the same game?! Or are you actually claiming that flipping control points back and forth qualifies for dynamically changing player driven environment?
He's talking about world versus world.
There's also guilds claiming keeps and flying their banners, and siege emplacements that can literally be put anywhere on the map to create unique challenges and choke points, but let's just ignore those shall we .
Also...I played Darkfall for some time and TBH, it was basically about just flipping control points (cities) in the end. Yeah, it happened much less frequently in than in GW2, but it was still basically the same.
GW2's WvW is actually what I always wanted the sieges in Darkfall to be. But instead, they were just a bunch of guys hitting buildings with hammers and stealing other dudes' stuff.
I know what he is talking about and you are comparing a budget indy MMO to a triple A one with a 100 million dollar budget. Even so, Darkfall PvP means something, your guilds success and even survival where as in GW 2 it means absolutely nothing. Owning or losing a keep means nothing and it can be lost and gained 10000 times without mattering either way.
Originally posted by Badaboom I don't like "end game." I like "all game." All game is the best type of game.
And I find myself quoting you and agreeing with you yet again.
Well it's true. I couldn't imagine telling my wife during sex that I just want to get to my endgame. I'd be divorced. Why can't we all just enjoy the ride?!
Stating that you want there to be plenty of content to enjoy once you reach max level doesn't imply that you didn't enjoy or don't want to enjoy the process of getting to that point.
i don't like when endgame is a complete shift and change from what I have been doing up to then.. i don't like to feel I need to get to X level to get to the "good stuff". I don't enjoy when all the content I played upto endgame is now trivialized because I outleveled it.. to me this is why I feel GW2 has endgame I will enjoy for a good while.. many enjoy just raid grinding.. i'm not one of those people.. PVP is also big for me in terms of endgame and for me choices in PVP is the big one as long as I find the combat enjoyable in PVP as well.. having a good variety in maps, having a good amount of ways to customize your character in terms of looks and abilities. "Meaningful PVP" really can have a differn't meaning for anyone so Ill just say as long as I find it enjoyable to me ill keep at it.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
A reward system / incentives to keep playing. Most people want to feel like they are progressing their character. The game is really lackign in that area.
A reward system / incentives to keep playing. Most people want to feel like they are progressing their character. The game is really lackign in that area.
how so? it has more rewards/incentives than any other MMO out at release and actually more than many have now.. just because your idea of rewards/incentives may only mean making you more powerful that doesn't discount GW2 has plenty of rewards and incentives to continue playing. Progression isn't only power..
One thing I do hope they add though is some sort of progression for weapon skills or a system that is like the utitlity skill system and you can select differn't weapon skills for the same weapon.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
A reward system / incentives to keep playing. Most people want to feel like they are progressing their character. The game is really lackign in that area.
how so? it has more rewards/incentives than any other MMO out at release and actually more than many have now.. just because your idea of rewards/incentives may only mean making you more powerful that doesn't discount GW2 has plenty of rewards and incentives to continue playing. Progression isn't only power..
One thing I do hope they add though is some sort of progression for weapon skills or a system that is like the utitlity skill system and you can select differn't weapon skills for the same weapon.
Right, I mean making you more powerful, something more than just different armor/weapon skins for progression. Don't get me wrong, I love the game, and my incentive to keep playing is the awesome guild I am in, which holds events all the time. However, just trying to be honest, I see the lack of character progression... as in getting more powerful, being a real problem for a lot of players.
What its lacking compared to WoW? Well a lot, but WoW is an older game. Biggest thing that purposely isn't being done is raiding... which is a major deal. Over-all a lot of the feeling there is nothing to do has to do with some of the main bits from other games being doable below max.
The best way to tell if you really have stuff to do is ask yourself...
"What is there to do worth wild for me?"
Oh... and make sure btw if you do ask that, you ask it about a game your comparing to, becuase some people seem to list achievements and discovery and all that mumbo jumbo and forget other games have stuff like that too, and yet feel like they can use that as end game and ignore another games content in that regards.
For me, I like to be able to achieve something at the end and GW2... gear? But that becomes trivialized quickly and doesn't matter anywhere really. Woopie, better gear for... being able to pve better... woopie... It just lacks that edge and pvp isn't really able to be counted as end game due to the way its set up. Its fine if they want that a priority but they need to really get working on ranking and other factors to make pvp more competative. PvE... it just needs something to do. It feels like its just for turds and giggles mostly and it just doesn't seem to have any purpose.
A reward system / incentives to keep playing. Most people want to feel like they are progressing their character. The game is really lackign in that area.
how so? it has more rewards/incentives than any other MMO out at release and actually more than many have now.. just because your idea of rewards/incentives may only mean making you more powerful that doesn't discount GW2 has plenty of rewards and incentives to continue playing. Progression isn't only power..
One thing I do hope they add though is some sort of progression for weapon skills or a system that is like the utitlity skill system and you can select differn't weapon skills for the same weapon.
Right, I mean making you more powerful, something more than just different armor/weapon skins for progression. Don't get me wrong, I love the game, and my incentive to keep playing is the awesome guild I am in, which holds events all the time. However, just trying to be honest, I see the lack of character progression... as in getting more powerful, being a real problem for a lot of players.
power progression has always been something they weren't keen on for end-game.. what they could do to satify people in this regard would be more skill progression and more skills in general to unlock. This way they can keep the "everyone on even playing field" game they want and add a sort of progression to "improve" your character. If just getting more powerful is your only goal at endgame i'd say this may not be the game for some people for long term.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Consider the problem: What do you do to keep capped-and-bored players paying (assuming your game collects subs)?
The two biggest traditional answers are "raid or PvP". But there's also a big variety of smaller answers; exploration, achievements, collections, the world domination through wealth game. The more variety you're able to provide, the more players you will keep 'hooked'. And of course Stuff is the easiest thing to make (for the producer) and collect (for the gamer), and feeds the ego directly with adding Trophy value (another Collection).
PvP players have their own ranking-ego-peen systems, apart from Trophies. So do Raiders.
Also note this is where sandboxes and themeparks meet in the middle--in either case, the ultimate goal is to keep players entertained. Smaller systems like housing, crafting, alternate advancement, etc. can serve that purpose too. Again, as many and varied as you can possibly construct.
Isn't it interesting how mature games will always have the edge in terms of Content, but may already be pushing the Limit as far as how long then can keep stringing their eldest veterans along? And you know what--Sandboxes have the same limit...sooner or later, you've been there and done that with every system the game provides.
I wonder if you can plot "Burnout, 95% certainty" at a specific time-played T with deviations-from-the-mean on a Normal curve?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
What its lacking compared to WoW? Well a lot, but WoW is an older game. Biggest thing that purposely isn't being done is raiding... which is a major deal. Over-all a lot of the feeling there is nothing to do has to do with some of the main bits from other games being doable below max.
The best way to tell if you really have stuff to do is ask yourself...
"What is there to do worth wild for me?"
Oh... and make sure btw if you do ask that, you ask it about a game your comparing to, becuase some people seem to list achievements and discovery and all that mumbo jumbo and forget other games have stuff like that too, and yet feel like they can use that as end game and ignore another games content in that regards.
For me, I like to be able to achieve something at the end and GW2... gear? But that becomes trivialized quickly and doesn't matter anywhere really. Woopie, better gear for... being able to pve better... woopie... It just lacks that edge and pvp isn't really able to be counted as end game due to the way its set up. Its fine if they want that a priority but they need to really get working on ranking and other factors to make pvp more competative. PvE... it just needs something to do. It feels like its just for turds and giggles mostly and it just doesn't seem to have any purpose.
what is the purpose of getting highest rank of anything in any game? fame fortune? your name in gamepro? honestly though aren't games supposed to be about having fun? Now sure some may feel getting the highest this or that = fun for them but in the end what is the purpose truely? In the end it's just a game you play it till it's not fun anymore and you move on. How is getting a set of full exotics and full legandaries and full dungeon gear any differn't than getting a full set of hard to get armor in any other game? Because it doesn't make you that much more powerful than the next guy it just wasn't worth doing? Honestly I'm curious.. I did the raid(somewhat) and PVP gear grinds for years and honestly a lot of it just was not fun at all it was tedious and exhausting and what was it all for? I'd rather just play a game I can enjoy and have fun in.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
A reward system / incentives to keep playing. Most people want to feel like they are progressing their character. The game is really lackign in that area.
how so? it has more rewards/incentives than any other MMO out at release and actually more than many have now.. just because your idea of rewards/incentives may only mean making you more powerful that doesn't discount GW2 has plenty of rewards and incentives to continue playing. Progression isn't only power..
One thing I do hope they add though is some sort of progression for weapon skills or a system that is like the utitlity skill system and you can select differn't weapon skills for the same weapon.
Right, I mean making you more powerful, something more than just different armor/weapon skins for progression. Don't get me wrong, I love the game, and my incentive to keep playing is the awesome guild I am in, which holds events all the time. However, just trying to be honest, I see the lack of character progression... as in getting more powerful, being a real problem for a lot of players.
power progression has always been something they weren't keen on for end-game.. what they could do to satify people in this regard would be more skill progression and more skills in general to unlock. This way they can keep the "everyone on even playing field" game they want and add a sort of progression to "improve" your character. If just getting more powerful is your only goal at endgame i'd say this may not be the game for some people for long term.
I disagree with their choices for end game philosophy, but whatever. The game is great fun with all the awesome events my guild is hosting. BUT, I can see how people will lose interest in the game PDQ once they have their full pvp set and pve set of gear and the only upgrades they can achieve for their character is how they look.
I like the idea of weapon progression... something, anything like that would be great.
I think ANet will start realising this too as they sift through the feedback and are able to see how many people keep playing after a month or so. They are really excellent at listening to the player base.
what is the purpose of getting highest rank of anything in any game? fame fortune?
You'd be amazed just how many Raiders are entirely driven by their Ranking (on a server, in the country, in the world) on a specific web site.
Egoboo works for a while as a motivator, yep.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
what is the purpose of getting highest rank of anything in any game? fame fortune? your name in gamepro? honestly though aren't games supposed to be about having fun? Now sure some may feel getting the highest this or that = fun for them but in the end what is the purpose truely? In the end it's just a game you play it till it's not fun anymore and you move on. How is getting a set of full exotics and full legandaries and full dungeon gear any differn't than getting a full set of hard to get armor in any other game? Because it doesn't make you that much more powerful than the next guy it just wasn't worth doing? Honestly I'm curious.. I did the raid(somewhat) and PVP gear grinds for years and honestly a lot of it just was not fun at all it was tedious and exhausting and what was it all for? I'd rather just play a game I can enjoy and have fun in.
I have fun working for something, it gives some entertainment to me. That being said, I just don't feel compelled to play. Rift (for example) I actually enjoyed playing. The gameplay entertained me and having something to work for motivated me more to play. GW2... I just don't feel any motivation. Heck, on Rift my warrior is basically capped out and done, and yet I still will jump on to PvP or just play and mess around with stuff, yet GW2 I just feel no desire to with a character I hit level 80 days ago.
I think that having something to work towards AND having fun are linked together quite well. Rift I'm not playing nearly as much because I am finished with stuff. Having something to work for and earn makes me feel like I'm doing something.
Then again, it could just because GW2 just doesn't appeal to me... or more so I get tired out of it to quickly. The big problem I think is from lvl 1, I see exactly what my character will basically be like at 80, and doing the same play style in some ways is like doing that 'end game' and as such it drains me of the entertainment of it and when I'm not earning anything, I just lose desire to play.
what is the purpose of getting highest rank of anything in any game? fame fortune?
You'd be amazed just how many Raiders are entirely driven by their Ranking (on a server, in the country, in the world) on a specific web site.
Egoboo works for a while as a motivator, yep.
oh I know it well as I used to be like that.. but once I got that ranking it was like okay whoop whoop now what.. lets wait 6 more months and they add another set of rankings.. i did this for years but it gets to a point you gotta say why am I doing this again? I just don't see the drive in that type of play anymore and glad a game came out where I can enjoy most of what it has to offer and not worry about getting "to the top".
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
what is the purpose of getting highest rank of anything in any game? fame fortune? your name in gamepro? honestly though aren't games supposed to be about having fun? Now sure some may feel getting the highest this or that = fun for them but in the end what is the purpose truely? In the end it's just a game you play it till it's not fun anymore and you move on. How is getting a set of full exotics and full legandaries and full dungeon gear any differn't than getting a full set of hard to get armor in any other game? Because it doesn't make you that much more powerful than the next guy it just wasn't worth doing? Honestly I'm curious.. I did the raid(somewhat) and PVP gear grinds for years and honestly a lot of it just was not fun at all it was tedious and exhausting and what was it all for? I'd rather just play a game I can enjoy and have fun in.
I have fun working for something, it gives some entertainment to me. That being said, I just don't feel compelled to play. Rift (for example) I actually enjoyed playing. The gameplay entertained me and having something to work for motivated me more to play. GW2... I just don't feel any motivation. Heck, on Rift my warrior is basically capped out and done, and yet I still will jump on to PvP or just play and mess around with stuff, yet GW2 I just feel no desire to with a character I hit level 80 days ago.
I think that having something to work towards AND having fun are linked together quite well. Rift I'm not playing nearly as much because I am finished with stuff. Having something to work for and earn makes me feel like I'm doing something.
Then again, it could just because GW2 just doesn't appeal to me... or more so I get tired out of it to quickly. The big problem I think is from lvl 1, I see exactly what my character will basically be like at 80, and doing the same play style in some ways is like doing that 'end game' and as such it drains me of the entertainment of it and when I'm not earning anything, I just lose desire to play.
Right, this pretty much sums up what I think the majority of players are going through or will go through soon. There is just nothing to strive for. That is a crucial element to these type of games that I don't think ANet should have totally discarded.
I think ANet will start realising this too as they sift through the feedback and are able to see how many people keep playing after a month or so. They are really excellent at listening to the player base.
I think Anet remembers the same crowd leaving GW1, for the same reasons, in even shorter time. "What? Only 20 levels! Omg!" (the classic 'failed to read the box' reaction).
It's an experimental thing; can we get players to accept something different from what they're used to?
Gamers are a pretty reactionary bunch; that answer's generally "no". And I don't think it was terribly unpredictable.
I remember 2005. The first reaction, for tens of thousands of players, was "WoW had X. Why can't this game have X too?"
Sure enough, 2012. Same reaction.
Every game premeire since 2004, in fact. "Why can't we make this game just like WoW?"
Remember SWTOR, in January? "Why can't we have a new game that isn't just like WoW?"
Remember Rift? "Why can't we have a new game that isn't just like WoW?"
When developers deliver what players ask for, they get ripped. When developers try to be different, they get ripped.
Welcome to mmorpg.com.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
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Wurm Online might be a good example
Against my better judgement but here goes.
A good end game would be one where Guilds would actually fight each other in actual warfare. Not paintball warfare but real warfare where the the war could actually lead to the destruction of said guild.
How could this be achieved? Well for starters advancement past certain stage would allow warring guilds to attack other people, anywhere so to virtually drive them of from leveling etc. That is something I would qualify as Guild Wars rather than the stupid flipping of control points which means virtually nothing.
If that is too much hardcore PvP for the audience they are targetting they could make it so that the Dynamic Events actually meant something. In the sense that it could invade zone after zone after they are pushed back so that people were forced to hold them back or suffer the consequences, for all levels and players. This is what I imagine when they are talking about banding together to take down the dragons which threatens all. But ofcourse it is just rubbish storyline which does not actually happen.
With either of these type of endgames, PvE or PvP, the world would be a heck more dynamic than it is now.
Finally character progression in GW 2 is very weak. After level 40 there is little reason to level any further beside getting more HP, better gear and stats and after level 80 there is almost no reason. There needs to be an additional level of advancement, maybe accessable through the two end game modes I mentioned above where if you lose you actually lose access to this additional level of advancement, be it super skills or whatever.
Now this will never happen because most triple A MMORPG developers try to cater to as many as possible and having an endgame which every single player cannot "win" at would scare people of so they make it accessable (read easy) and simplistic. However I believe it can be done if there would exist a company which does not only look at how many boxes they can sell but rather focus on creating great MMORPGs.
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Except unlike raiding, there's no way of telling that experience will repeat itself.
Well, of course, but we haven't been stopped as of yet. (Note, it's only been 4 consecutive nights nothing long term yet.)
End game should be something you did not do before.
Take dungeons for example i always had a hard time to understand how Dungeon runs could be considered endgame if you start doing dungeons very early in the game.
I did enjoy the way FF11 handled it you started doing missions do unlock the actuall content once you were high lvl enough.
I admit there isnt much difference in Killing a God in Sky as to any other HNMS but since you had to unlock the area in a long and challanging quest series it gave you the feeling of doing something you just did not do before.
I know what he is talking about and you are comparing a budget indy MMO to a triple A one with a 100 million dollar budget. Even so, Darkfall PvP means something, your guilds success and even survival where as in GW 2 it means absolutely nothing. Owning or losing a keep means nothing and it can be lost and gained 10000 times without mattering either way.
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Stating that you want there to be plenty of content to enjoy once you reach max level doesn't imply that you didn't enjoy or don't want to enjoy the process of getting to that point.
End game for me means hitting level cap and have epic stuff to do.
In GW2 i do WvW / Meta Events / Orr / story or Eploration Dungeons
Enough contend for me to last 3 or 4 months at least, maybe even longer...
As long as i have fun at my level cap it means end game for me.
Out of curiosity, what server are you on?
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
Darkhaven. Don't feal ashamed. We have loads of people transferring here for the wvw wins.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Hahaha,.....ooookaaaay
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
A reward system / incentives to keep playing. Most people want to feel like they are progressing their character. The game is really lackign in that area.
how so? it has more rewards/incentives than any other MMO out at release and actually more than many have now.. just because your idea of rewards/incentives may only mean making you more powerful that doesn't discount GW2 has plenty of rewards and incentives to continue playing. Progression isn't only power..
One thing I do hope they add though is some sort of progression for weapon skills or a system that is like the utitlity skill system and you can select differn't weapon skills for the same weapon.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Right, I mean making you more powerful, something more than just different armor/weapon skins for progression. Don't get me wrong, I love the game, and my incentive to keep playing is the awesome guild I am in, which holds events all the time. However, just trying to be honest, I see the lack of character progression... as in getting more powerful, being a real problem for a lot of players.
What its lacking compared to WoW? Well a lot, but WoW is an older game. Biggest thing that purposely isn't being done is raiding... which is a major deal. Over-all a lot of the feeling there is nothing to do has to do with some of the main bits from other games being doable below max.
The best way to tell if you really have stuff to do is ask yourself...
"What is there to do worth wild for me?"
Oh... and make sure btw if you do ask that, you ask it about a game your comparing to, becuase some people seem to list achievements and discovery and all that mumbo jumbo and forget other games have stuff like that too, and yet feel like they can use that as end game and ignore another games content in that regards.
For me, I like to be able to achieve something at the end and GW2... gear? But that becomes trivialized quickly and doesn't matter anywhere really. Woopie, better gear for... being able to pve better... woopie... It just lacks that edge and pvp isn't really able to be counted as end game due to the way its set up. Its fine if they want that a priority but they need to really get working on ranking and other factors to make pvp more competative. PvE... it just needs something to do. It feels like its just for turds and giggles mostly and it just doesn't seem to have any purpose.
power progression has always been something they weren't keen on for end-game.. what they could do to satify people in this regard would be more skill progression and more skills in general to unlock. This way they can keep the "everyone on even playing field" game they want and add a sort of progression to "improve" your character. If just getting more powerful is your only goal at endgame i'd say this may not be the game for some people for long term.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Put simply?
Variety.
Consider the problem: What do you do to keep capped-and-bored players paying (assuming your game collects subs)?
The two biggest traditional answers are "raid or PvP". But there's also a big variety of smaller answers; exploration, achievements, collections, the world domination through wealth game. The more variety you're able to provide, the more players you will keep 'hooked'. And of course Stuff is the easiest thing to make (for the producer) and collect (for the gamer), and feeds the ego directly with adding Trophy value (another Collection).
PvP players have their own ranking-ego-peen systems, apart from Trophies. So do Raiders.
Also note this is where sandboxes and themeparks meet in the middle--in either case, the ultimate goal is to keep players entertained. Smaller systems like housing, crafting, alternate advancement, etc. can serve that purpose too. Again, as many and varied as you can possibly construct.
Isn't it interesting how mature games will always have the edge in terms of Content, but may already be pushing the Limit as far as how long then can keep stringing their eldest veterans along? And you know what--Sandboxes have the same limit...sooner or later, you've been there and done that with every system the game provides.
I wonder if you can plot "Burnout, 95% certainty" at a specific time-played T with deviations-from-the-mean on a Normal curve?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
what is the purpose of getting highest rank of anything in any game? fame fortune? your name in gamepro? honestly though aren't games supposed to be about having fun? Now sure some may feel getting the highest this or that = fun for them but in the end what is the purpose truely? In the end it's just a game you play it till it's not fun anymore and you move on. How is getting a set of full exotics and full legandaries and full dungeon gear any differn't than getting a full set of hard to get armor in any other game? Because it doesn't make you that much more powerful than the next guy it just wasn't worth doing? Honestly I'm curious.. I did the raid(somewhat) and PVP gear grinds for years and honestly a lot of it just was not fun at all it was tedious and exhausting and what was it all for? I'd rather just play a game I can enjoy and have fun in.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I disagree with their choices for end game philosophy, but whatever. The game is great fun with all the awesome events my guild is hosting. BUT, I can see how people will lose interest in the game PDQ once they have their full pvp set and pve set of gear and the only upgrades they can achieve for their character is how they look.
I like the idea of weapon progression... something, anything like that would be great.
I think ANet will start realising this too as they sift through the feedback and are able to see how many people keep playing after a month or so. They are really excellent at listening to the player base.
You'd be amazed just how many Raiders are entirely driven by their Ranking (on a server, in the country, in the world) on a specific web site.
Egoboo works for a while as a motivator, yep.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I have fun working for something, it gives some entertainment to me. That being said, I just don't feel compelled to play. Rift (for example) I actually enjoyed playing. The gameplay entertained me and having something to work for motivated me more to play. GW2... I just don't feel any motivation. Heck, on Rift my warrior is basically capped out and done, and yet I still will jump on to PvP or just play and mess around with stuff, yet GW2 I just feel no desire to with a character I hit level 80 days ago.
I think that having something to work towards AND having fun are linked together quite well. Rift I'm not playing nearly as much because I am finished with stuff. Having something to work for and earn makes me feel like I'm doing something.
Then again, it could just because GW2 just doesn't appeal to me... or more so I get tired out of it to quickly. The big problem I think is from lvl 1, I see exactly what my character will basically be like at 80, and doing the same play style in some ways is like doing that 'end game' and as such it drains me of the entertainment of it and when I'm not earning anything, I just lose desire to play.
oh I know it well as I used to be like that.. but once I got that ranking it was like okay whoop whoop now what.. lets wait 6 more months and they add another set of rankings.. i did this for years but it gets to a point you gotta say why am I doing this again? I just don't see the drive in that type of play anymore and glad a game came out where I can enjoy most of what it has to offer and not worry about getting "to the top".
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Right, this pretty much sums up what I think the majority of players are going through or will go through soon. There is just nothing to strive for. That is a crucial element to these type of games that I don't think ANet should have totally discarded.
I think Anet remembers the same crowd leaving GW1, for the same reasons, in even shorter time. "What? Only 20 levels! Omg!" (the classic 'failed to read the box' reaction).
It's an experimental thing; can we get players to accept something different from what they're used to?
Gamers are a pretty reactionary bunch; that answer's generally "no". And I don't think it was terribly unpredictable.
I remember 2005. The first reaction, for tens of thousands of players, was "WoW had X. Why can't this game have X too?"
Sure enough, 2012. Same reaction.
Every game premeire since 2004, in fact. "Why can't we make this game just like WoW?"
Remember SWTOR, in January? "Why can't we have a new game that isn't just like WoW?"
Remember Rift? "Why can't we have a new game that isn't just like WoW?"
When developers deliver what players ask for, they get ripped. When developers try to be different, they get ripped.
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Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.