Is GW2 the final nail in the coffin of the western $15/month mmorpg? Will there be any company that releases a game post GW2 that isn't free to play or buy to play? Is any company foolish to attempt to charge a monthly fee for a new MMORGP?
Is it the final nail, no. But it is a very big obstacle in my opinion, for other companies going forward. While these forums are full of haters as always the fact is the servers are still bursting with people. Tons of people are playing this game. The fact is for the cover price there really is a lot of material here for players to enjoy. In my opinion (I don't think I'm alone in this) this has been the most complete game to be released in a long time AND you don't have to pay a cent to play it after buying the game. Frankly, that's huge.
I'm an MMO optimist. I always have been guilty of this. But, going forward, even I am going to have a hard time justifying paying $15 a month to play a game when I already have a great game for free.
I'd say yes for themeparks since the resolve around pvp and "rinse and repeast" pve when the leveling content is done.
Wich means either you pull out content at insane speed like Rift or you won't keep your playerbase. I expect Wildstar and TESO to be either B2P or F2P since i haven't seen anything in them to show the opposite of this.
In term of sandbox and any kind of mmorpg with open ended "endgame", yeah, P2P is more than viable as long as it's good quality, not filled with bugs and god knows what non-functioning mechanics.
But, this isn't mainly because of GW2. It's the fact that, well, almost every mmorpg out there is F2P. Even the AAA games are going this route, not just some low budget ones. If GW2 was P2P it probably wouldn't last long either unless they pulled a Trion. And even then i don't know.
Originally posted by Jackdog back in the 80's we used to pay 10 cents a minute for online services, even at 1 hour a night that was close to 200 bucks a month in 1980 dollars. We useed ot do it becasue that was all we had unless you were lucky and had a education/military access to ARAPAnet. When EQ came out 15 bucks for a MMO was a bargain, still is I guess but the monthly fee model is on it's last leg. Just some companies still want to be greedy and have a box fee/monthly fee/cash shop...cough Funcom..cough cough Blizzard
I remember those days. I ran up phone bills for Quantumlink that would give me a heart attack these days
I know people (some in my guild) that has already spent $200-300 in GW2, some people rather pay that much to "gain an advantage" over paying $15/mo to grind for the advantage in a month or two.
When City of Heroes went F2P, the total amount I spent in that game was $30, I wanted to get the remaining tokens I needed to get permanent unlock for invention origin sets so I wouldn't have to spend 180 coins every 30 days to unlock them. In GW2 I don't even have to spend a dime to get my needed items, but it'll take a little longer than someone with $50-100 cash in hand.
Is GW2 the final nail in the coffin of the western $15/month mmorpg? Will there be any company that releases a game post GW2 that isn't free to play or buy to play? Is any company foolish to attempt to charge a monthly fee for a new MMORGP?
Are you for real , the nail in the coffing are the current crop of players. Win in a week and move on. Quality is worth paying for and people will always pay. And Id preffer to play against people who work for a living , increases the quality of the player base.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Originally posted by Mithrandolir Originally posted by Jackdogback in the 80's we used to pay 10 cents a minute for online services, even at 1 hour a night that was close to 200 bucks a month in 1980 dollars. We useed ot do it becasue that was all we had unless you were lucky and had a education/military access to ARAPAnet. When EQ came out 15 bucks for a MMO was a bargain, still is I guess but the monthly fee model is on it's last leg. Just some companies still want to be greedy and have a box fee/monthly fee/cash shop...cough Funcom..cough cough Blizzard
I remember those days. I ran up phone bills for Quantumlink that would give me a heart attack these days
Oh god, back when I played UO, I was on dialup and sometimes ran over the cap and got stupidly high fees. I also had a long distance call to Sweden, that bill was horrible, I had to cut down on my grocery shopping for a few weeks.
Originally posted by gessekai332 There is no incentive for most companies to do any work on the game after launch because that is where most of their money has been made (box sales), and sub numbers will almost always plummet after that.
This has been my argument with B2P. My logic is perfect. It's the "other developers", screwing up consistent content release, that are proving me wrong.
B2P only works if the company plans to actually have a future and make money more on future expansions (GW1+GW2). These companies have an incentive to keep on providing content/patches and keep customers happy because they want them to buy the next expansion as well as potentially bring in new customers. They know that if they dont make people happy with their original game as well as keep it up to date, no one will want to buy their next expansion.
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
The biggest success story in online gaming has maintained it's hold for almost a decade. It continues to be number 1 by huge margins, but because no one else has been able to compete on the same level with a similar product, we say, the revenue model is old and outdated.
The biggest success story in online gaming has maintained it's hold for almost a decade. It continues to be number 1 by huge margins, but because no one else has been able to compete on the same level with a similar product, we say, the revenue model is old and outdated.
No, we say it's old and outdated because there is no justification for charging subscription fees anymore. Contrary to popular belief, subscription fees were not charged to pay for new content. They were charged to pay for bandwith and server costs.
Back when MMOs started out, these costs were incredibly high. Now that is simply not the case anymore. Companies continue to charge these fees because we expect them to.
Originally posted by nihenah Its definitely not a nail in the coffin for sub based game. But it puts alot more pressure on companies who are charging their customers for content to get their act together and push out more content.
No, we say it's old and outdated because there is no justification for charging subscription fees anymore. Contrary to popular belief, subscription fees were not charged to pay for new content. They were charged to pay for bandwith and server costs.
Back when MMOs started out, these costs were incredibly high. Now that is simply not the case anymore. Companies continue to charge these fees because we expect them to.
While i do also expect to get good content update on a good, frequent matter, i view paying a sub as game time.
A pay 15 bucks, i get access to 100% of the game for a full month. Otherwise, i have to deal with a cash shop and pay that instead. Also, the payed expansions thing.
In the end, all i really care about is how much i like the game. If so, i'll pay a box, xpack and sub if necessary.
Is GW2 the final nail in the coffin of the western $15/month mmorpg? Will there be any company that releases a game post GW2 that isn't free to play or buy to play? Is any company foolish to attempt to charge a monthly fee for a new MMORGP?
LMFAO!!! Please , it's not like GW2 is anywhere near as good as EVE-Online , a awesome sandbox MMO is worth 10-15$ a month any day. GW2 is another free for all MMO with no meaning , once your tired of it , you just move on to the next big hype.
Is GW2 the final nail in the coffin of the western $15/month mmorpg? Will there be any company that releases a game post GW2 that isn't free to play or buy to play? Is any company foolish to attempt to charge a monthly fee for a new MMORGP?
LMFAO!!! Please , it's not like GW2 is anywhere near as good as EVE-Online , a awesome sandbox MMO is worth 10-15$ a month any day. GW2 is another free for all MMO with no meaning , once your tired of it , you just move on to the next big hype.
You can say that about anything... I've played tons of subscription games, sandbox and themepark.. when I'm tired of it.. I just go play something else. Every game is worth the money as long as it keeps you entertained.
The biggest success story in online gaming has maintained it's hold for almost a decade. It continues to be number 1 by huge margins, but because no one else has been able to compete on the same level with a similar product, we say, the revenue model is old and outdated.
No, we say it's old and outdated because there is no justification for charging subscription fees anymore. Contrary to popular belief, subscription fees were not charged to pay for new content. They were charged to pay for bandwith and server costs.
Back when MMOs started out, these costs were incredibly high. Now that is simply not the case anymore. Companies continue to charge these fees because we expect them to.
With just about everything in our society, it's all about supply and demand. And in this case, Blizzard controls the supply and as long as there is a demand, it doesn't matter what justification they need. They own it, They control it. They have all the right to set their price according to the market.
If someone else ever comes out with a kickass MMO, it'll get subs. Simple as that. So weather these companies can justify thier sub, is based 100% on who is willing to pay it. Everything else, is a personal decision for you and what it's worth to you to play/pay. But millions don't really care as they open their wallets each month.
Is GW2 the final nail in the coffin of the western $15/month mmorpg? Will there be any company that releases a game post GW2 that isn't free to play or buy to play? Is any company foolish to attempt to charge a monthly fee for a new MMORGP?
LMFAO!!! Please , it's not like GW2 is anywhere near as good as EVE-Online , a awesome sandbox MMO is worth 10-15$ a month any day. GW2 is another free for all MMO with no meaning , once your tired of it , you just move on to the next big hype.
Maybe its not near as good for YOU. For me GW2 is worth much more than EVE online. Its all about what different people like. People seem to confuse their opinion with facts.
Hopefully sub based games will offer features not available in most F2P/B2P titles, such as quality customer service, game design catering to those with more niche tastes, or really special features not found in the other titles.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Is GW2 the final nail in the coffin of the western $15/month mmorpg? Will there be any company that releases a game post GW2 that isn't free to play or buy to play? Is any company foolish to attempt to charge a monthly fee for a new MMORGP?
Not by a long shot. The economy on the other hand....still needs to go under a lot more for the companies to even consider changing the "gold model" as they call it.
The biggest success story in online gaming has maintained it's hold for almost a decade. It continues to be number 1 by huge margins, but because no one else has been able to compete on the same level with a similar product, we say, the revenue model is old and outdated.
I hope you're not talking about WoW because it's nowhere close to being number one in online gaming or even MMOs. Worldwide versus other MMOs it is about number 5 in revenue generation. With regards to other online games it probably doesn't even rate in the top 5. MMOs are still niche and the p2p revenue model is antiquated.
Oh, thank you for the correction.
The (fifth) biggest success story in online gaming has maintained it's hold for almost a decade. It continues to be number (5) by huge margins, but because no one else has been able to compete on the same level with a similar product (using this model), we say, the revenue model is old and outdated.
I think we will see more buy to play games in future . I think the likes of the Elder Scrolls Online would be very wise to look at it as a possible buisness model .
For a while B2P , F2P and SUB based games will co-exist but if B2P games become more common in the future ( and I think they will ) and more SUB based games have to go to a F2P format when their numbers start to fall I think theres going to be less and less subscription based games .
Also if the market does have more B2P games this will have an undoubted effect on the current mmos that still off a subscription . I wonder how games like Rift or Terra will survive it . Even WoW I think could potentially lose millions more subs and it may along with EVE which offers a different type of gameplay to most mmos be one of the few to survive .
I would think in ten years they will be very few and far between . Subscription games wont disapear overnight but its a buisness model thats never been written in stone ( apart form in the dogmatic minds of some mmo gamers ) .
I actually think TOR should have been buy to play given its linear nature . It is more like playing a single player prg with some mmo elements . It would have been ideally suited to B2P more so than a freeumium model .
Is GW2 the final nail in the coffin of the western $15/month mmorpg? Will there be any company that releases a game post GW2 that isn't free to play or buy to play? Is any company foolish to attempt to charge a monthly fee for a new MMORGP?
Actually, GW2 isnt a game I would compare with a blockbuster mmorpg and their monthly fees, it would need a lot more to get sucked into the game world. If GW2 would charge a monthly sub it would end like SWTOR probably. The game is fine as it is, but if you played GW1 before you know more or less what you can expect. It is ideal for players who dont want to invest enormous time into an mmorpg with lowering ones sight on the other hand.
Is GW2 the final nail in the coffin of the western $15/month mmorpg? Will there be any company that releases a game post GW2 that isn't free to play or buy to play? Is any company foolish to attempt to charge a monthly fee for a new MMORGP?
It isn't the final nail but it sure creates a new yardstick against which sub MMOs will be compared.
People will continue to pay subs for what they could get for free elsewhere and aggressively rationalize it here and elsewhere. You don't have to look any farther than the Xbox Gold memberships needed to have access to Netflix vs. getting it for no additional fee in the PS3... people still use the Xbox sub.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
It makes it alot harder for MMO desingers to ask a sub and get the population they need with Guildwars 2 up there. You may not like GW2 and hate every thing that makes it a monster mmo, fact remains that even WoW might rethink their sub model if their subs keep declining the way it goes.
Ive heared that since Wotlk, they lost around 4 million subs, thats a massive number, they still have alot of subs going, but they drop faster then they are gaining.
MoP will be the 1st sign of how well sub based super mmo's do versus GW2. It might not show it the second MoP goes live, but within months when people played out the contend they might return to GW2 and quit their Sub untill a new patch or Xpac comes out.
I think other mmo studios suffer the most, TSW / SWTOR / and soon to be released Arch Age, they will suffer alot and might also rethink their way of generating income.
One thing is for sure, the Launch of GW2 and their playment model is executed perfectly, not PtW cashop, and free contend without even buying patches or Xpacs.
Time will tell us what is posible, but i bet my left finger on it that sub based mmo's need to push out alot of bang for the bucks or wont retain a high subscription number.
with gw2 i don't see any reason to pay for a sub for any game like EVAH
That being said, there is still room for diversification in revenue models, just as long as its not p2w since this has proven to be a bomb.
You can still have F2P with funny hats (TF2 and soon Firefall and PS2(hopefully)
and
B2P wth funny hats (GW2 and we'll see what comes next)
Buy the box + subscription + paid expansions + funny hats is just not going to wash anymore unless you're targetting the jetset crowd as your player audience.
Comments
Is it the final nail, no. But it is a very big obstacle in my opinion, for other companies going forward. While these forums are full of haters as always the fact is the servers are still bursting with people. Tons of people are playing this game. The fact is for the cover price there really is a lot of material here for players to enjoy. In my opinion (I don't think I'm alone in this) this has been the most complete game to be released in a long time AND you don't have to pay a cent to play it after buying the game. Frankly, that's huge.
I'm an MMO optimist. I always have been guilty of this. But, going forward, even I am going to have a hard time justifying paying $15 a month to play a game when I already have a great game for free.
I think it will depend on the game itself.
I'd say yes for themeparks since the resolve around pvp and "rinse and repeast" pve when the leveling content is done.
Wich means either you pull out content at insane speed like Rift or you won't keep your playerbase. I expect Wildstar and TESO to be either B2P or F2P since i haven't seen anything in them to show the opposite of this.
In term of sandbox and any kind of mmorpg with open ended "endgame", yeah, P2P is more than viable as long as it's good quality, not filled with bugs and god knows what non-functioning mechanics.
But, this isn't mainly because of GW2. It's the fact that, well, almost every mmorpg out there is F2P. Even the AAA games are going this route, not just some low budget ones. If GW2 was P2P it probably wouldn't last long either unless they pulled a Trion. And even then i don't know.
I remember those days. I ran up phone bills for Quantumlink that would give me a heart attack these days
I know people (some in my guild) that has already spent $200-300 in GW2, some people rather pay that much to "gain an advantage" over paying $15/mo to grind for the advantage in a month or two.
When City of Heroes went F2P, the total amount I spent in that game was $30, I wanted to get the remaining tokens I needed to get permanent unlock for invention origin sets so I wouldn't have to spend 180 coins every 30 days to unlock them. In GW2 I don't even have to spend a dime to get my needed items, but it'll take a little longer than someone with $50-100 cash in hand.
Are you for real , the nail in the coffing are the current crop of players. Win in a week and move on. Quality is worth paying for and people will always pay. And Id preffer to play against people who work for a living , increases the quality of the player base.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Oh god, back when I played UO, I was on dialup and sometimes ran over the cap and got stupidly high fees. I also had a long distance call to Sweden, that bill was horrible, I had to cut down on my grocery shopping for a few weeks.
B2P only works if the company plans to actually have a future and make money more on future expansions (GW1+GW2). These companies have an incentive to keep on providing content/patches and keep customers happy because they want them to buy the next expansion as well as potentially bring in new customers. They know that if they dont make people happy with their original game as well as keep it up to date, no one will want to buy their next expansion.
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
Whys that ? Don't you like playing games with mature , intelligent people with a bit of common sence ?
The biggest success story in online gaming has maintained it's hold for almost a decade. It continues to be number 1 by huge margins, but because no one else has been able to compete on the same level with a similar product, we say, the revenue model is old and outdated.
No, we say it's old and outdated because there is no justification for charging subscription fees anymore. Contrary to popular belief, subscription fees were not charged to pay for new content. They were charged to pay for bandwith and server costs.
Back when MMOs started out, these costs were incredibly high. Now that is simply not the case anymore. Companies continue to charge these fees because we expect them to.
This^
Hopefully this will rise the bar for P2P
While i do also expect to get good content update on a good, frequent matter, i view paying a sub as game time.
A pay 15 bucks, i get access to 100% of the game for a full month. Otherwise, i have to deal with a cash shop and pay that instead. Also, the payed expansions thing.
In the end, all i really care about is how much i like the game. If so, i'll pay a box, xpack and sub if necessary.
LMFAO!!! Please , it's not like GW2 is anywhere near as good as EVE-Online , a awesome sandbox MMO is worth 10-15$ a month any day. GW2 is another free for all MMO with no meaning , once your tired of it , you just move on to the next big hype.
You can say that about anything... I've played tons of subscription games, sandbox and themepark.. when I'm tired of it.. I just go play something else. Every game is worth the money as long as it keeps you entertained.
With just about everything in our society, it's all about supply and demand. And in this case, Blizzard controls the supply and as long as there is a demand, it doesn't matter what justification they need. They own it, They control it. They have all the right to set their price according to the market.
If someone else ever comes out with a kickass MMO, it'll get subs. Simple as that. So weather these companies can justify thier sub, is based 100% on who is willing to pay it. Everything else, is a personal decision for you and what it's worth to you to play/pay. But millions don't really care as they open their wallets each month.
Maybe its not near as good for YOU. For me GW2 is worth much more than EVE online. Its all about what different people like. People seem to confuse their opinion with facts.
Hopefully sub based games will offer features not available in most F2P/B2P titles, such as quality customer service, game design catering to those with more niche tastes, or really special features not found in the other titles.
Heck, EVE already does that now.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Not by a long shot. The economy on the other hand....still needs to go under a lot more for the companies to even consider changing the "gold model" as they call it.
Oh, thank you for the correction.
The (fifth) biggest success story in online gaming has maintained it's hold for almost a decade. It continues to be number (5) by huge margins, but because no one else has been able to compete on the same level with a similar product (using this model), we say, the revenue model is old and outdated.
I think we will see more buy to play games in future . I think the likes of the Elder Scrolls Online would be very wise to look at it as a possible buisness model .
For a while B2P , F2P and SUB based games will co-exist but if B2P games become more common in the future ( and I think they will ) and more SUB based games have to go to a F2P format when their numbers start to fall I think theres going to be less and less subscription based games .
Also if the market does have more B2P games this will have an undoubted effect on the current mmos that still off a subscription . I wonder how games like Rift or Terra will survive it . Even WoW I think could potentially lose millions more subs and it may along with EVE which offers a different type of gameplay to most mmos be one of the few to survive .
I would think in ten years they will be very few and far between . Subscription games wont disapear overnight but its a buisness model thats never been written in stone ( apart form in the dogmatic minds of some mmo gamers ) .
I actually think TOR should have been buy to play given its linear nature . It is more like playing a single player prg with some mmo elements . It would have been ideally suited to B2P more so than a freeumium model .
Actually, GW2 isnt a game I would compare with a blockbuster mmorpg and their monthly fees, it would need a lot more to get sucked into the game world. If GW2 would charge a monthly sub it would end like SWTOR probably. The game is fine as it is, but if you played GW1 before you know more or less what you can expect. It is ideal for players who dont want to invest enormous time into an mmorpg with lowering ones sight on the other hand.
It isn't the final nail but it sure creates a new yardstick against which sub MMOs will be compared.
People will continue to pay subs for what they could get for free elsewhere and aggressively rationalize it here and elsewhere. You don't have to look any farther than the Xbox Gold memberships needed to have access to Netflix vs. getting it for no additional fee in the PS3... people still use the Xbox sub.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
It makes it alot harder for MMO desingers to ask a sub and get the population they need with Guildwars 2 up there.
You may not like GW2 and hate every thing that makes it a monster mmo, fact remains that even WoW might rethink their sub model if their subs keep declining the way it goes.
Ive heared that since Wotlk, they lost around 4 million subs, thats a massive number, they still have alot of subs going, but they drop faster then they are gaining.
MoP will be the 1st sign of how well sub based super mmo's do versus GW2.
It might not show it the second MoP goes live, but within months when people played out the contend they might return to GW2 and quit their Sub untill a new patch or Xpac comes out.
I think other mmo studios suffer the most, TSW / SWTOR / and soon to be released Arch Age, they will suffer alot and might also rethink their way of generating income.
One thing is for sure, the Launch of GW2 and their playment model is executed perfectly, not PtW cashop, and free contend without even buying patches or Xpacs.
Time will tell us what is posible, but i bet my left finger on it that sub based mmo's need to push out alot of bang for the bucks or wont retain a high subscription number.
with gw2 i don't see any reason to pay for a sub for any game like EVAH
That being said, there is still room for diversification in revenue models, just as long as its not p2w since this has proven to be a bomb.
You can still have F2P with funny hats (TF2 and soon Firefall and PS2(hopefully)
and
B2P wth funny hats (GW2 and we'll see what comes next)
Buy the box + subscription + paid expansions + funny hats is just not going to wash anymore unless you're targetting the jetset crowd as your player audience.