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Dungeons - The Lack of the Trinity

voxnorvoxnor os, CAPosts: 121Member

Just got done with my first experience in a dungeon - Twilight Arbor Story Mode on my 58 Ranger (down-scaled to 50, of course).

Group looked like this:

54 Necro

54 Warrior

58 Ranger (me)

55 Theif

80 Warrior

 

Now, I will elaborate below, but if I were to blurt out my feelings immediatly it would be "sadly dissapointed and not impressed".

 

Now for the elaboration: I have thus far been a huge fan of GW2 ( a peak at my posting history will show you as much ). And, I had high hopes for the lack of the Trinity. And yet, I can't shake this nasty feeling after my first dungeon. I found that the encounters were either point and click - or a ressurection fest.

 

What I mean by this, is that I think it was and will be very difficult for group strategy to be employed with the lack of the trinity. The second boss, for example, summons a massive amount of spider adds. Our method for handling this was running in circles, shooting the boss, dodging when not out of endurance. This caused frequent deaths - but due to the adds ressurection is not an option - so we would just run back from the spawn point and re-enter the fight in progress. This was not fun.

 

The third boss, however, while gimicky (kitty kat) was tank n' spank, without the tank! (All spank, baby)

 

The point to all this is the following:

 

  1. How can / will ANet make complex, engaging encounters without the trinity?
  2. Will they ever be able to shift the emphasis to good group play and away from good individual play without the trinity?
  3. Why am I dying in story mode? I'd like to go into story mode for the, you know, story.
 
 
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Comments

  • HeroEvermoreHeroEvermore salem, ORPosts: 672Member

    Say what? I got 4 people with me in dungeons who have rez! We all have self heals! I don't need no stinking healer! We have infinite lives ROAR! (I know what ur saying though). I do like the trinity. I like LFG for content because it helps the community engage and u meet friends you will keep longer because you can actually tell when someone is skilled and not just getn rolfpwnd by a boss that does way to much dmg.

    That said: Yay for arenanet for trying something different because the Trinity though it works. Is old. My lack of interest in mmorpgs (the only genre i truly play everything of) was brought back thanks to GW2 (a game i had no faith in yet adore now).

    Hero Evermore
    Guild Master of Dragonspine since 1982.
    Playing Path of Exile and deeply in love with it.

  • XerithXerith Richardson, TXPosts: 970Member

    Fight in explorable mode and tell me the groups dont require team work and coordination. I'm assuming you mean the spider mobs in the Twilight Arbor dungeon which stop to explode once they reach a player. It's up to each team member to avoid those mobs, kite them when they are about to explode, and avoid kiting them into the path of another player. 

    Or do what we did and have a guardian work on rounding them up and forcing them to explode in a corner. 

    My guild has run through every story mode dungeon so far, we are also now working on clearing explorable Arah and a couple others. We have had to work on group synergy, skill compisitions and communication more in GW2 than any previous game. After playing the dungeons here, I can never go back to sitting there while a tank tanks and a healer heals. And this is coming from an ex WoW raiding tank. 

  • voxnorvoxnor os , CAPosts: 121Member
    Originally posted by HeroEvermore

    Say what? I got 4 people with me in dungeons who have rez! We all have self heals! I don't need no stinking healer! We have infinite lives ROAR! (I know what ur saying though). I do like the trinity. I like LFG for content because it helps the community engage and u meet friends you will keep longer because you can actually tell when someone is skilled and not just getn rolfpwnd by a boss that does way to much dmg.

    That said: Yay for arenanet for trying something different because the Trinity though it works. Is old. My lack of interest in mmorpgs (the only genre i truly play everything of) was brought back thanks to GW2 (a game i had no faith in yet adore now).

     

    Don't get me wrong - I agree that the mechanics are refreshing. I am more concerned with how they will make content that is different when they don't have the trinity to abuse? Essentially, from a content designer's standpoint - you have 5 DPS characters with self-healing, who can all battle rez.

     

    I mean, what complex encounters can you do with that? How do they spice that up? If they put out too much damange, that squishy guy dies - if they make it too easy, its a 5 man zergfest. And in the end - its all about individual skill, rather than group dynamics. How do they have groups working together when both your damange and survivability are up to yourself?

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  • voxnorvoxnor os , CAPosts: 121Member
    Originally posted by Xerith

    Fight in explorable mode and tell me the groups dont require team work and coordination. I'm assuming you mean the spider mobs in the Twilight Arbor dungeon which stop to explode once they reach a player. It's up to each team member to avoid those mobs, kite them when they are about to explode, and avoid kiting them into the path of another player. 

    Or do what we did and have a guardian work on rounding them up and forcing them to explode in a corner. 

    My guild has run through every story mode dungeon so far, we are also now working on clearing explorable Arah and a couple others. We have had to work on group synergy, skill compisitions and communication more in GW2 than any previous game. After playing the dungeons here, I can never go back to sitting there while a tank tanks and a healer heals. And this is coming from an ex WoW raiding tank. 

     

    Please note - my comments weren't about *difficulty* of the content, as I havn't seen enough to express that. My questions are more rooted in story mode, and how to create content that is fun and isn't simply running in circles...

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  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,045Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by voxnor

    ...

    1. How can / will ANet make complex, engaging encounters without the trinity?
    2. Will they ever be able to shift the emphasis to good group play and away from good individual play without the trinity?
    3. Why am I dying in story mode? I'd like to go into story mode for the, you know, story.

    1. I dont see a problem with that, I in fact think the trinity makes combat more boring.

    2. Yes, but players need to get used to playing in another way. Instead of focusing on a single thing you suddenly need to see the big picture and keep both all mobs and your coplayers in mind.

    3. What do you think? Lack of gear or not enough skills yet. Get good gear and train more. I recommend that you team up with a more experienced guildie of the same class that can give you a lession. Another possibility is that you just play the wrong class, some are hader than others and might not really fit your playstyle.

    Playing without trinity just take a different skill that trinity, you need to multitask and this can be tough in the beginning, but I have myself trained up our guilds noobs and they have gotten it after a few hours.

  • HeroEvermoreHeroEvermore salem, ORPosts: 672Member

    If what you want is something like 40 man raids in vanilla WoW. That kind of strategy and teamwork? It will just not happen in this game. It's built to be a zergfest. Just a very different style of mmo. Much more casual. Just my 2 cents.

     

    Now. In WvWvW. That's a whole different story. Having supreme cooperation in there is where you can find this kind of teamwork if you have a giant guild. (once you an actually get a guild in there at one time).

     

    I just don't see the PvE in this game being able to make such intricate complex challenges because the trinity sets a very specific "This kind of group can accomplish this boss" Type of platform that we are so used to in games. I am not against the loss of this type of gameplay as I find myself being a little more casual in games despite playing them as much. Just not into doing raids for 8 hours ever again in my life.

    Hero Evermore
    Guild Master of Dragonspine since 1982.
    Playing Path of Exile and deeply in love with it.

  • goozmaniagoozmania chino, CAPosts: 145Member Uncommon

    I agree... I have been pretty frustrated with group play in this game. It seems as though the dungeons were designed to require a tank and healer (in some cases, multiple healers lol), and yet there are none. I've not seen a group yet that isn't a zerg (die and revive til the mob dies) or revive fest. The generic heals we (or at least warriors) get do not even account for a minute fraction of the healing required in dungeons.

    I often find, also, that there is nowhere to dodge to, even when I have endurance. There are red circles literally everywhere. I'm dodging one ae right into another; and these ae's freaking destroy me, a heavy armor wearing, vitality specced warrior.

    I'm sorry to offend the fanboys who were praising GW2's ending of the holy trinity (actually, I'm not at all) but they have not done so. This is just a frustrating, constant death mess. And if they simply make it easier, it'll probably be too easy and not entertaining. I cannot currently conceive of an idea to balance group content without requiring specific roles... Also, if people come in and say "a ____ build ____ can _____" then they are defeating the purpose. Turning a guardian or engineer into a makeshift healer/tank/whatever is not getting rid of the trinity lol...

  • voxnorvoxnor os , CAPosts: 121Member
    Originally posted by Loke666
    Originally posted by voxnor

    ...

    1. How can / will ANet make complex, engaging encounters without the trinity?
    2. Will they ever be able to shift the emphasis to good group play and away from good individual play without the trinity?
    3. Why am I dying in story mode? I'd like to go into story mode for the, you know, story.

    1. I dont see a problem with that, I in fact think the trinity makes combat more boring.

    2. Yes, but players need to get used to playing in another way. Instead of focusing on a single thing you suddenly need to see the big picture and keep both all mobs and your coplayers in mind.

    3. What do you think? Lack of gear or not enough skills yet. Get good gear and train more. I recommend that you team up with a more experienced guildie of the same class that can give you a lession. Another possibility is that you just play the wrong class, some are hader than others and might not really fit your playstyle.

    Playing without trinity just take a different skill that trinity, you need to multitask and this can be tough in the beginning, but I have myself trained up our guilds noobs and they have gotten it after a few hours.

     

    1) I wasn't saying there was necessarily a problem with it - but *how* - what ideas do you have as to what they will do?

     

    2) I understand its a different mindset - the question is again *how* do you force group gameplay? What types of mechanics can be used? In the trinity there is a standard rule set to be used to that end - what do we use in place here to accomplish these goals?

     

    3) I appreciate the thoughts - but if you are suggesting I need to improve my level 58, green and yellow geared Ranger for a level 50 story mode dungeon... well.. Also - I play the class quite effectively, I am a 10 year MMO vet. Not bragging here, just explaining that personal skill or gear is not an issue.

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  • SteeJanzSteeJanz Gladstone, MOPosts: 332Member Uncommon

    Wouldn't you think to be fair, you would have to give it a few runs, maybe learn the group mechanics that you may be missing.  I recognize what you are saying, death and running back is no fun if you do it a ton.  With that being said, I am finding the dungeons more and more enjoyable, after I have learned the fights and what I am suppose to do. 

    Run explorable mode AC and fight Kohler (?).   At first you will die a ton, but once you get used to it you don't die nearly as much.  You also learn a very valuable lesson, in GW2 you never take your eyes of the boss.  We have been used to the tank taking care of that for us, now everyone must pay attention or you will die.  Also, you recognize that it is better to get some up from a down state before they are defeated.  You get them back up much faster.  Anyway.   It's really kind of unfair to judge a game before you understand it.  They really play the same, don't stand in stuff, avoid big damage attacks, if someone is down, do what ever you can to get the attention of the boss, understand what the boss does and how things affect them.  Some bosses are not affected by CC and stuff like that. 

     

    Basically I think it is a little quick to jump to the forums to post your issue when it may just be you.  Prove it out first.  Run the dungeon multiple times, learn the fights. 

  • HeroEvermoreHeroEvermore salem, ORPosts: 672Member
    Personally I do not mind dying repeatedly in a dungeon and respawning. Sure it's kind of silly but me and my friends just laugh our butts off because lets face it (im a warrior). I am the squishest warrior alive and aoe kills me over and over but at LEAST I LOOK GOOD NAKED WHEN IM FIGHTING :P

    Hero Evermore
    Guild Master of Dragonspine since 1982.
    Playing Path of Exile and deeply in love with it.

  • voxnorvoxnor os , CAPosts: 121Member
    Originally posted by goozmania

    I agree... I have been pretty frustrated with group play in this game. It seems as though the dungeons were designed to require a tank and healer (in some cases, multiple healers lol), and yet there are none. I've not seen a group yet that isn't a zerg (die and revive til the mob dies) or revive fest. The generic heals we (or at least warriors) get do not even account for a minute fraction of the healing required in dungeons.

    I often find, also, that there is nowhere to dodge to, even when I have endurance. There are red circles literally everywhere. I'm dodging one ae right into another; and these ae's freaking destroy me, a heavy armor wearing, vitality specced warrior.

    I'm sorry to offend the fanboys who were praising GW2's ending of the holy trinity (actually, I'm not at all) but they have not done so. This is just a frustrating, constant death mess. And if they simply make it easier, it'll probably be too easy and not entertaining. I cannot currently conceive of an idea to balance group content without requiring specific roles... Also, if people come in and say "a ____ build ____ can _____" then they are defeating the purpose. Turning a guardian or engineer into a makeshift healer/tank/whatever is not getting rid of the trinity lol...

     

    This is EXACTLY the point I am driving at. I cannot concieve it either - and I am pleading for someone hear to share some ideas. I am not saying their aren't any - but I fear there may not be.

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  • voxnorvoxnor os , CAPosts: 121Member
    Originally posted by SteeJanz

    Wouldn't you think to be fair, you would have to give it a few runs, maybe learn the group mechanics that you may be missing.  I recognize what you are saying, death and running back is no fun if you do it a ton.  With that being said, I am finding the dungeons more and more enjoyable, after I have learned the fights and what I am suppose to do. 

    Run explorable mode AC and fight Kohler (?).   At first you will die a ton, but once you get used to it you don't die nearly as much.  You also learn a very valuable lesson, in GW2 you never take your eyes of the boss.  We have been used to the tank taking care of that for us, now everyone must pay attention or you will die.  Also, you recognize that it is better to get some up from a down state before they are defeated.  You get them back up much faster.  Anyway.   It's really kind of unfair to judge a game before you understand it.  They really play the same, don't stand in stuff, avoid big damage attacks, if someone is down, do what ever you can to get the attention of the boss, understand what the boss does and how things affect them.  Some bosses are not affected by CC and stuff like that. 

     

    Basically I think it is a little quick to jump to the forums to post your issue when it may just be you.  Prove it out first.  Run the dungeon multiple times, learn the fights. 

     

    I can understand your recomendations - and were I not me, I would think it was sound advice. But as someone with 10 years in MMO's, most of them in moderate to hardcore PVE environments, I feel I have earned the ability to safely judge something quite quickly.

     

    For example, on the nightmare spawning boss (#2 in story mode), I completely understood his tactics. I know all of my skills, and selected some great AoE kiting tools for utility. And all of that, played near flawlessly, still got me killed, still had me running in circles, and still was a zerg-fest.

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  • SiphaedSiphaed Everywhere!Posts: 879Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by voxnor

    Just got done with my first experience in a dungeon - Twilight Arbor Story Mode on my 58 Ranger (down-scaled to 50, of course).

    Group looked like this:

    54 Necro

    54 Warrior

    58 Ranger (me)

    55 Theif

    80 Warrior

     

    Now, I will elaborate below, but if I were to blurt out my feelings immediatly it would be "sadly dissapointed and not impressed".

     

    Now for the elaboration: I have thus far been a huge fan of GW2 ( a peak at my posting history will show you as much ). And, I had high hopes for the lack of the Trinity. And yet, I can't shake this nasty feeling after my first dungeon. I found that the encounters were either point and click - or a ressurection fest.

     

    What I mean by this, is that I think it was and will be very difficult for group strategy to be employed with the lack of the trinity. The second boss, for example, summons a massive amount of spider adds. Our method for handling this was running in circles, shooting the boss, dodging when not out of endurance. This caused frequent deaths - but due to the adds ressurection is not an option - so we would just run back from the spawn point and re-enter the fight in progress. This was not fun.

     

    The third boss, however, while gimicky (kitty kat) was tank n' spank, without the tank! (All spank, baby)

     

    The point to all this is the following:

     

    1. How can / will ANet make complex, engaging encounters without the trinity?
    2. Will they ever be able to shift the emphasis to good group play and away from good individual play without the trinity?
    3. Why am I dying in story mode? I'd like to go into story mode for the, you know, story.
     
     

    First off, your problem was "Let's just nuke the boss and ignore the adds".  That's a poor strategy and nothing to do with groups needing tanks/heals/DPS trinity.

     

       Instead, it has to do with assigning the group AOE attackers to spam AOE's that apply CONDITIONS to slowly get rid of the adds.  In this case, you had a Necromancer. They can place a lot of AOE's that apply poison conditions and even a fear.  By doing a blend of these, the adds become a non-issue. 


  • voxnorvoxnor os , CAPosts: 121Member
    Originally posted by Siphaed
    Originally posted by voxnor

    Just got done with my first experience in a dungeon - Twilight Arbor Story Mode on my 58 Ranger (down-scaled to 50, of course).

    Group looked like this:

    54 Necro

    54 Warrior

    58 Ranger (me)

    55 Theif

    80 Warrior

     

    Now, I will elaborate below, but if I were to blurt out my feelings immediatly it would be "sadly dissapointed and not impressed".

     

    Now for the elaboration: I have thus far been a huge fan of GW2 ( a peak at my posting history will show you as much ). And, I had high hopes for the lack of the Trinity. And yet, I can't shake this nasty feeling after my first dungeon. I found that the encounters were either point and click - or a ressurection fest.

     

    What I mean by this, is that I think it was and will be very difficult for group strategy to be employed with the lack of the trinity. The second boss, for example, summons a massive amount of spider adds. Our method for handling this was running in circles, shooting the boss, dodging when not out of endurance. This caused frequent deaths - but due to the adds ressurection is not an option - so we would just run back from the spawn point and re-enter the fight in progress. This was not fun.

     

    The third boss, however, while gimicky (kitty kat) was tank n' spank, without the tank! (All spank, baby)

     

    The point to all this is the following:

     

    1. How can / will ANet make complex, engaging encounters without the trinity?
    2. Will they ever be able to shift the emphasis to good group play and away from good individual play without the trinity?
    3. Why am I dying in story mode? I'd like to go into story mode for the, you know, story.
     
     

    First off, your problem was "Let's just nuke the boss and ignore the adds".  That's a poor strategy and nothing to do with groups needing tanks/heals/DPS trinity.

     

       Instead, it has to do with assigning the group AOE attackers to spam AOE's that apply CONDITIONS to slowly get rid of the adds.  In this case, you had a Necromancer. They can place a lot of AOE's that apply poison conditions and even a fear.  By doing a blend of these, the adds become a non-issue. 

     

    What AoE's are you referring to? Our Necro was not staff based.

     

    I provide a few AoEs, all on very length CD's and not castable while moving. When we attempted a strategy of killing the adds - it went very, very poorly.

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  • curacura WarsawPosts: 950Member Uncommon

    Im sure they could make much more complex scenarios, but im not sure if they would be to your taste.

    I never liked trinity, putting it mildly, and i saw all theese, so called, strategies to be more of a tasks lists. There was no room for improvisation. Boring as hell. Besieds, to be honest, If average 14 yo can learn it, it aint strategy.

  • lathaanlathaan viennaPosts: 475Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by voxnor

    Just got done with my first experience in a dungeon - Twilight Arbor Story Mode on my 58 Ranger (down-scaled to 50, of course).

    Group looked like this:

    54 Necro

    54 Warrior

    58 Ranger (me)

    55 Theif

    80 Warrior

     

    Now, I will elaborate below, but if I were to blurt out my feelings immediatly it would be "sadly dissapointed and not impressed".

     

    Now for the elaboration: I have thus far been a huge fan of GW2 ( a peak at my posting history will show you as much ). And, I had high hopes for the lack of the Trinity. And yet, I can't shake this nasty feeling after my first dungeon. I found that the encounters were either point and click - or a ressurection fest.

     

    What I mean by this, is that I think it was and will be very difficult for group strategy to be employed with the lack of the trinity. The second boss, for example, summons a massive amount of spider adds. Our method for handling this was running in circles, shooting the boss, dodging when not out of endurance. This caused frequent deaths - but due to the adds ressurection is not an option - so we would just run back from the spawn point and re-enter the fight in progress. This was not fun.

     

    The third boss, however, while gimicky (kitty kat) was tank n' spank, without the tank! (All spank, baby)

     

    The point to all this is the following:

     

    1. How can / will ANet make complex, engaging encounters without the trinity?
    2. Will they ever be able to shift the emphasis to good group play and away from good individual play without the trinity?
    3. Why am I dying in story mode? I'd like to go into story mode for the, you know, story.
     
     

    most people that call the trinity (=tank and spank) a "tactic" will need YEARS to adopt to the real strategy that is needed in GW2 dungeons. they are great, but you need to work together - thats what people unlearned over the years ... i tried to pug a dungeon once. 2 out of 5 members had never heard of the combo system, none of them was familiar to the term smoke/blindness-tanking. go figure.

  • voxnorvoxnor os , CAPosts: 121Member
    Originally posted by cura

    Im sure they could make much more complex scenarios, but im not sure if they would be to your taste.

    I never liked trinity, putting it mildly, and i saw all theese, so called, strategies to be more of a tasks lists. There was no room for improvisation. Boring as hell. Besieds, to be honest, If average 14 yo can learn it, it aint strategy.

     

    I'm confused by your response? Strategies using the trinity are "14 year old simple" as you say. And so you want no strategy at all? Or are you suggesting that GW 2 strategy is more in depth?

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  • voxnorvoxnor os , CAPosts: 121Member
    Originally posted by lathaan
    Originally posted by voxnor

     

     

    most people that call the trinity (=tank and spank) a "tactic" will need YEARS to adopt to the real strategy that is needed in GW2 dungeons. they are great, but you need to work together - thats what people unlearned over the years ... i tried to pug a dungeon once. 2 out of 5 members had never heard of the combo system, none of them was familiar to the term smoke/blindness-tanking. go figure.

     

    While I want to agree - the fight mechanics I saw didn't lend to this. If we may nit-pick - what combo system would have made the nightmare boss less of a zerg fest?

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  • KoreanSoWhatKoreanSoWhat TOronto, ONPosts: 80Member
    Originally posted by voxnor
    Originally posted by SteeJanz

    Wouldn't you think to be fair, you would have to give it a few runs, maybe learn the group mechanics that you may be missing.  I recognize what you are saying, death and running back is no fun if you do it a ton.  With that being said, I am finding the dungeons more and more enjoyable, after I have learned the fights and what I am suppose to do. 

    Run explorable mode AC and fight Kohler (?).   At first you will die a ton, but once you get used to it you don't die nearly as much.  You also learn a very valuable lesson, in GW2 you never take your eyes of the boss.  We have been used to the tank taking care of that for us, now everyone must pay attention or you will die.  Also, you recognize that it is better to get some up from a down state before they are defeated.  You get them back up much faster.  Anyway.   It's really kind of unfair to judge a game before you understand it.  They really play the same, don't stand in stuff, avoid big damage attacks, if someone is down, do what ever you can to get the attention of the boss, understand what the boss does and how things affect them.  Some bosses are not affected by CC and stuff like that. 

     

    Basically I think it is a little quick to jump to the forums to post your issue when it may just be you.  Prove it out first.  Run the dungeon multiple times, learn the fights. 

     

    I can understand your recomendations - and were I not me, I would think it was sound advice. But as someone with 10 years in MMO's, most of them in moderate to hardcore PVE environments, I feel I have earned the ability to safely judge something quite quickly.

     

    For example, on the nightmare spawning boss (#2 in story mode), I completely understood his tactics. I know all of my skills, and selected some great AoE kiting tools for utility. And all of that, played near flawlessly, still got me killed, still had me running in circles, and still was a zerg-fest.

     

    It is just plain simple. Balance/System of Guild War 2 Dungeons is broken at this moment. Don't even try to deny it because it is a cold fact. 

    People who have experience in rpg, or mmorpg, or any kind of games whatsoever feel it is not fun, and is obviously imbalanced.

    Ex) most explorer mode is even easier than most story modes. STUPID. (And it is because they didn't balance level adjustment system well enough, more like they screwed it up.)

     

    Wait till they fix it. or Walk away just like me.

  • k61977k61977 Pendleton, SCPosts: 145Member Uncommon

    Just a couple of quick questions.  Are you running instances with people you know or guildies?  If it is pugs you might be running the instances with people that have now idea to get out of the red circle ect.  I did the final instance with a guy myself the other night who just couldn't keep himself alive.  I stopped rezzing him after the 20th death.  I love the lack of the trinty myself.  I have been playing mmos since one of the first ultima online.

    It gets really boring in fights where all you have to do is push buttons, tanks just spam aggro, healers just heal, dps just goes through the rotations.  Very little else going on.  This on the other hand has been great.  You have to keep moving, you have to look at which weapon you are using when.  And you even have to pay attention to the idiot that drags 10 mobs to you and dies.

    This game might not be for the hardcore raiders.  I myself got tired of raiding a long time ago.  Waiting for 10-40 people to get together to do something then to take hours just wasn't fun. 

    My next question is have you tried playing the other classes past 40?  I love some and hate others myself.  I prefer the ranger but the warrior is great for pvp.

    To answer your questions:

    1.  They already have.  I constantly have to pay attention to what is going on.  The battles are twitch bases encounters, if you are slow to react you die.

    2.  Group play is what you make it.  A pug in not really group play to me.  If you play alone and are not in a guild then you might find this hard.  Having friends ingame to do this stuff leads to group play.

    3.  I like the fact myself that the game is harder than others.  Even though it is story you get the feeling you accomplished something when done other than oh I just downed this guy without dieing.  And if you think story mode is hard go try some explorer modes.

    image

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,045Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by voxnor

    1) I wasn't saying there was necessarily a problem with it - but *how* - what ideas do you have as to what they will do?

    2) I understand its a different mindset - the question is again *how* do you force group gameplay? What types of mechanics can be used? In the trinity there is a standard rule set to be used to that end - what do we use in place here to accomplish these goals?

    3) I appreciate the thoughts - but if you are suggesting I need to improve my level 58, green and yellow geared Ranger for a level 50 story mode dungeon... well.. Also - I play the class quite effectively, I am a 10 year MMO vet. Not bragging here, just explaining that personal skill or gear is not an issue.

    1. Well, there are plenty of interesting stuff you can do with no trinity. Nasty surprises and constantly forcing players to adapt their tactics to the situation instead of just standing still and rotate skill are my favorites.

    2. It is all about flexibility. You need to learn to act like a team and a good team now what the other members will do. This is indeed easier in trinity but it comes natural when you play together with the same people a while. PUGs are harder, particularly without using ventrilo but you just need to communicate.

    3. Green gear is not good enough no. Anything below yellow is trash in GW2 sadly. But the lower colors usually suck in any MMO.

     I am a MMO vet from Meridian 59 16 years ago and that does not mean I dont have anything to learn. The combat system takes some time and training to get used to and that is nothing to be ashamed of. It is just different to what we are used to. I also died like a dog in the personal story of the beta. Now it is rare.

    Training makes excellence as someone said. As a vet is a mentor probably not neccesarily though, but you still need to be open to new things and forget the skill rotation we are used to. As a thief at least all my attacks are timed to when I need them most and my build is made to remove conditions and get me out of trouble.

    It can be so easy that your build is the only problem. If you die a lot you should try putting more points in vitality, toughness and heal. If that makes you live longer that might be better than just high DPS.

  • DeserttFoxxDeserttFoxx North York, ONPosts: 2,360Member Uncommon

    The OP point is, story mode is for people who want the story, they just want to follow along and be told a tale, they dont want any type of challenge.

     

    Ive done every dungeon so far, and i can tell you story mode is harder then explorable mode in about 7 of the 8 dungeons in guild wars 2. And a lot of that is due to the fact that there is no trinity, without a trinity you cant do anything but chaotic tank and spanks and body rush encounters.

    Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy

    Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman

    Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson

  • AoriAori Carbondale, ILPosts: 1,886Member Uncommon

    So what i'm getting from alot of posts is.. don't bother playing unless you have a dedicated group of gamers with you.

    Ah gone are the days when a random group of people could struggle past content and feel a sense of accomplishment.

     

  • voxnorvoxnor os , CAPosts: 121Member
    Originally posted by Loke666
    Originally posted by voxnor

    1) I wasn't saying there was necessarily a problem with it - but *how* - what ideas do you have as to what they will do?

    2) I understand its a different mindset - the question is again *how* do you force group gameplay? What types of mechanics can be used? In the trinity there is a standard rule set to be used to that end - what do we use in place here to accomplish these goals?

    3) I appreciate the thoughts - but if you are suggesting I need to improve my level 58, green and yellow geared Ranger for a level 50 story mode dungeon... well.. Also - I play the class quite effectively, I am a 10 year MMO vet. Not bragging here, just explaining that personal skill or gear is not an issue.

    1. Well, there are plenty of interesting stuff you can do with no trinity. Nasty surprises and constantly forcing players to adapt their tactics to the situation instead of just standing still and rotate skill are my favorites.

    2. It is all about flexibility. You need to learn to act like a team and a good team now what the other members will do. This is indeed easier in trinity but it comes natural when you play together with the same people a while. PUGs are harder, particularly without using ventrilo but you just need to communicate.

    3. Green gear is not good enough no. Anything below yellow is trash in GW2 sadly. But the lower colors usually suck in any MMO.

     I am a MMO vet from Meridian 59 16 years ago and that does not mean I dont have anything to learn. The combat system takes some time and training to get used to and that is nothing to be ashamed of. It is just different to what we are used to. I also died like a dog in the personal story of the beta. Now it is rare.

    Training makes excellence as someone said. As a vet is a mentor probably not neccesarily though, but you still need to be open to new things and forget the skill rotation we are used to. As a thief at least all my attacks are timed to when I need them most and my build is made to remove conditions and get me out of trouble.

    It can be so easy that your build is the only problem. If you die a lot you should try putting more points in vitality, toughness and heal. If that makes you live longer that might be better than just high DPS.

     

    1) "Nasty Surprises" - So, move when red circles come. Ok. "Forcing players... instead of standing still". So, move out of red ricles. Ok....

    2) "Learn to act like a team". We were acting like a team as much as any PuG will. Is your point that PuG's should not be able to complete story mode without several deaths?

    3) "Green gear is not good enough" - This is a level 50 dungeon. All of us were downscaled by at least 5 levels, giving us extra traits. Are you suggesting I gear up specifically for one PuG dungeon run at level 50?

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  • voxnorvoxnor os , CAPosts: 121Member
    Originally posted by Aori

    So what i'm getting from alot of posts is.. don't bother playing unless you have a dedicated group of gamers with you.

    Ah gone are the days when a random group of people could struggle past content and feel a sense of accomplishment.

     

     

    This is my major issue, and what I am getting at here alongside a few other points. If story mode is not for PuG's, what is?

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