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Guild Wars 2: 2 Million and Counting

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  • Sora2810Sora2810 Member Posts: 567
    Originally posted by kadepsyson
    Originally posted by fatboy21007
    Look out WoW,  some1 is gaining steam XD

    WoW has more subscribers than GW2 ever will

    You are true; because GW2 has no subscription.

    Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW.
    Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,855

    GW2 is much less a direct competitor for WoW than any other MMO. Because of the B2P model, for most, it means, they can play GW2 and they can play WoW. From the discussions, I've had in Vent, many in GW2 are still going to buy MoP. The purpose of GW2 was not to take down any individual games but to attack the revenue model itself. I'm not convinced it fully succeeded. Maybe only halfway. It proved B2P is viable, but I don't think it's going to stop WoW.  It only succeeded in opening up options, not closing them. To me, this is better anyway.

     

     

     

  • roo67roo67 Member Posts: 402
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     

    You didn't use maths, blasting or even Honey Badgers in your numbers. You could have at least thrown in some XFire.

    Like this: 8 years at 9 million players at a 50% retention rate gives you 9 million + (4.5 million times 7), which is HONEY BADGER!!!!1! No, it's 40.5 million boxes sold.

    See? That's how we roll around here.

     

    Word. image

    a) whats a honey badger is it like a normal badger ?

    b) will they be playable in the expansion that folllows MoP ?

    image

  • sonoggisonoggi Member Posts: 1,119
    Originally posted by roo67
    Originally posted by IceAge
     

    That's why I ended up with 15 mils boxes sold ONLY for expansions! I then add another 5 mil boxes of the original WoW + another 5 mil just for the sake of being .. wrong! Heck, you can also add 5 mil in plus if you want! That would be 30 mil boxes sold!

     

    Out of interest how many copys did WoW Vanilla sell in its first month ?

    Expansions to a popular established  game such as well are bound to sell well  . So really you need to compare the initial months sales of GW2 and WoW in such an arguement .

     

     this pretty much ends the debate. 2mill copies in the first few WEEKS is amazing. we should return to the WoW vs. GW2 debate in one year. class dismissed. 

  • FuryVFuryV Member UncommonPosts: 515

    Seriously happy to hear this.  Well done Anet.  May both WoW & GW2 live alongside together for years to come.

     

    /Beginhate

  • SirBalinSirBalin Member UncommonPosts: 1,300
    What this doesn't show is all the returns.  I know a ton of people that returned the game.  I returned 2 copies simply because their poor customer service.  I was without the game after being hacked for a week before they even responded to say they have seen my ticket.  A week later they sent a message telling me how to fix it, I responded explaining that I get they are busy, but thats just unacceptable and I've already charged back.  I know just in the community I play in alone probably 10 out of 40 or so returned it...so i'm sure were not the only people that have had this happen.  Would love to know the real net numbers.

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  • KothosesKothoses Member UncommonPosts: 921
    Originally posted by silverreign

    since the game isnt sub based, the box sales vs actual people playing are deceiving. i bought the game but i am not playing anymore. yet my box sale is being considered as a playing member. 2 million box sales doesnt exactly mean 2 million people playing

    Still means 2 million box sales...... from a game where a good portion of its revenue is going to come from box sales.... not sure what else you want to hear from them?

  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,769
    Originally posted by tawess

    How good for them

     

    "World of Warcraft Cataclysm sells 3.3M units in its first day out"

     

    That should tell you units sold equals jack until the concurent users numbers show up. (and that of is where things turn a bit more bleak for WoW.) But then again, good for them. that shows that they have a good chance to make some serious money and that in turn is good for the future employment of the dev team. So *thumbs up*

    Well, since you opened the doors to the 3.3 opening day cata numbers:  What if MOP has a lower number on opening day?  What would that tell us?

    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

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    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

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  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,415
    Originally posted by Galadourn
    Originally posted by kadepsyson
    Originally posted by fatboy21007
    Look out WoW,  some1 is gaining steam XD

    WoW has more subscribers than GW2 ever will

    define 'ever'....

    Not that im a wow fan or a blizzard fan, but if you're going to be fair, then you have to compare just plain old sales of the game's boxes, not even current subs.  And although we don't have that number i think its a safe bet that in the 15-20 million range.

    GW2 will not reach that number, period, just won't happen.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,769
    Originally posted by roo67
    Originally posted by IceAge
     

    That's why I ended up with 15 mils boxes sold ONLY for expansions! I then add another 5 mil boxes of the original WoW + another 5 mil just for the sake of being .. wrong! Heck, you can also add 5 mil in plus if you want! That would be 30 mil boxes sold!

     

    Out of interest how many copys did WoW Vanilla sell in its first month ?

    Expansions to a popular established  game such as well are bound to sell well  . So really you need to compare the initial months sales of GW2 and WoW in such an arguement .

     

    But you would also have to adjust the number relative to the size of the mmorpg market size.  The market was much smaller back then.

    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • roo67roo67 Member Posts: 402
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by tawess

    How good for them

     

    "World of Warcraft Cataclysm sells 3.3M units in its first day out"

     

    That should tell you units sold equals jack until the concurent users numbers show up. (and that of is where things turn a bit more bleak for WoW.) But then again, good for them. that shows that they have a good chance to make some serious money and that in turn is good for the future employment of the dev team. So *thumbs up*

    Well, since you opened the doors to the 3.3 opening day cata numbers:  What if MOP has a lower number on opening day?  What would that tell us?

    Also you can't really compare sales of expansion pack to an already established game to a new game .

    As I said with my previous post . You can only compare sales from month one after release of WoW vanilla to GW2 at this point .

    When Guild Wars 2 releases its 3rd Xpac then you can compare it to Cataclysm to do anything else is a bit stupid at this point .

  • IceAgeIceAge Member EpicPosts: 3,115
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by IceAge
    Ok, fine! I will explain how I ended up at those numbers :

     

    I toke the offical announcements for box sales for each expansion WoW had untill now! The vast result was that :

    1) BC sold 3.5 mil copies in the first month! Can you safely say that it sold more then 5 mil copies untill now? With a subscription base of 12 mil at is *finest* and 9 mil which they have now? With 50% from the total subs in EU/NA where boxes counts? If yes, please tell me your facts! I will not be offended, trust me!

    2) WOLK sold 2.8 mil 1st 24 hours while Cata sold 3.3 mil. Then Blizzard stoped releasing numbers after the first month ( unless you find a source ) . Now, how many boxes do you think they sold untill now? Where the base subs have been around 4-6 mils ? I add 5 mils copies each expansion, because the medium subscriptions were at 5 mil.

    That's why I ended up with 15 mils boxes sold ONLY for expansions! I then add another 5 mil boxes of the original WoW + another 5 mil just for the sake of being .. wrong! Heck, you can also add 5 mil in plus if you want! That would be 30 mil boxes sold!

    I did not put Asia here, since Blizzard never released Asia box sales, because they don't sell boxes over there as you may know!

    Don't get me wrong, I like when someone comes and .. tell me some good arguments about how I am wrong, so if you do have some good arguments, please share them with me! Again, I will not be offended and I will peaceful communicate with you!



    I do see that you have used some rudimentary maths, but you have still left out honey badgers. Also, you skipped to guessing the final number directly, instead of guessing an intermediate number. You're supposed to guess an intermediate number like the retention rate and then do calculations using the guessed at intermediate numbers. I don't know why, but for some reason guessing the intermediate numbers, and then calculating is preferable to guessing the final result.

     

    Retention rate does not actually means the increase in boxe sales! You added up the retation rate from the begining to this date ( 8 years ) 8x9 = 72 + 9 mils = 81 : 2 = 40.5 mils! This is your number. Retention means static , and you cannot use it when it comes to boxe sales! You cannot multiply numbers of subscriptions with years and then say that 40.5 mils boxes have been sold. What you've done is basically say that 40.5 mil have been played WoW over 8 years! If I understood that correctly! And even so , you cannot actually say that all players have been purchased all the 3 expansion, because that would end up as 121.5 mil boxes sold.

    Anyway , I am not saying that my calculation is correct! What I am saying is that retention is retantion, and you cannot multiply it by 8 for the sake of just muliply it because it has been out for 8 years!

    The same 4.5 mil players ( numbers ) today, are the same 4.5 mil from last year! And the 4.5 mil for the last year are the same 4.5 mil from 2 years ago! And yes, there are almost the same players! You can't say that 4.5 mil from this year , are are totaly new from the 4.5 players from last year or 2 year ago! Ok, maybe not ALL of them, but the majority!

    Originally posted by roo67
    Originally posted by IceAge
     

    That's why I ended up with 15 mils boxes sold ONLY for expansions! I then add another 5 mil boxes of the original WoW + another 5 mil just for the sake of being .. wrong! Heck, you can also add 5 mil in plus if you want! That would be 30 mil boxes sold!

     

    Out of interest how many copys did WoW Vanilla sell in its first month ?

    Expansions to a popular established  game such as well are bound to sell well  . So really you need to compare the initial months sales of GW2 and WoW in such an arguement .

     

    Coming from this person it had: http://www.pvcmuseum.com/games/charts/world-of-warcraft-sales.htm Worldwide (January 2005) - 700,000

    Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
    Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910


    Originally posted by roo67
    Originally posted by Loktofeit Originally posted by lizardbones   You didn't use maths, blasting or even Honey Badgers in your numbers. You could have at least thrown in some XFire. Like this: 8 years at 9 million players at a 50% retention rate gives you 9 million + (4.5 million times 7), which is HONEY BADGER!!!!1! No, it's 40.5 million boxes sold. See? That's how we roll around here.  
    Word.
    a) whats a honey badger is it like a normal badger ?

    b) will they be playable in the expansion that folllows MoP ?




    a) Honey Badger do not give a f***. They just don't.

    b) I don't think so. But if you could, I might actually be able to stomach the mess that was Cataclysm's leveling to play one.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,855
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Only morons claim wow is dead.

    If by dead, you mean the single largest subscription based online game for 8 years running and continues to retain a huge majority of it's player base even to the point if any game could just pick up a fraction of what WoW dropped off, it would be considered a tremendous success, then Yeah. WoW is dead.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,855
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by tawess

    How good for them

     

    "World of Warcraft Cataclysm sells 3.3M units in its first day out"

     

    That should tell you units sold equals jack until the concurent users numbers show up. (and that of is where things turn a bit more bleak for WoW.) But then again, good for them. that shows that they have a good chance to make some serious money and that in turn is good for the future employment of the dev team. So *thumbs up*

    Well, since you opened the doors to the 3.3 opening day cata numbers:  What if MOP has a lower number on opening day?  What would that tell us?

    It would tell us that MOP had lower numbers on opening day.

    I gotta love how a congratulatory thread going out to ANET turns into a "WoW's goin down" thread.

    It just goes to show you how big WoW REALLY is. When the game can dominate Arena Net's own success threads in 3rd party forums, forget about player bases.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910


    Originally posted by IceAge
    Originally posted by lizardbones   Originally posted by IceAge Ok, fine! I will explain how I ended up at those numbers :   I toke the offical announcements for box sales for each expansion WoW had untill now! The vast result was that : 1) BC sold 3.5 mil copies in the first month! Can you safely say that it sold more then 5 mil copies untill now? With a subscription base of 12 mil at is *finest* and 9 mil which they have now? With 50% from the total subs in EU/NA where boxes counts? If yes, please tell me your facts! I will not be offended, trust me! 2) WOLK sold 2.8 mil 1st 24 hours while Cata sold 3.3 mil. Then Blizzard stoped releasing numbers after the first month ( unless you find a source ) . Now, how many boxes do you think they sold untill now? Where the base subs have been around 4-6 mils ? I add 5 mils copies each expansion, because the medium subscriptions were at 5 mil. That's why I ended up with 15 mils boxes sold ONLY for expansions! I then add another 5 mil boxes of the original WoW + another 5 mil just for the sake of being .. wrong! Heck, you can also add 5 mil in plus if you want! That would be 30 mil boxes sold! I did not put Asia here, since Blizzard never released Asia box sales, because they don't sell boxes over there as you may know! Don't get me wrong, I like when someone comes and .. tell me some good arguments about how I am wrong, so if you do have some good arguments, please share them with me! Again, I will not be offended and I will peaceful communicate with you! I do see that you have used some rudimentary maths, but you have still left out honey badgers. Also, you skipped to guessing the final number directly, instead of guessing an intermediate number. You're supposed to guess an intermediate number like the retention rate and then do calculations using the guessed at intermediate numbers. I don't know why, but for some reason guessing the intermediate numbers, and then calculating is preferable to guessing the final result.  Retention rate does not actually means the increase in boxe sales! You added up the retation rate from the begining to this date ( 8 years ) 8x9 = 72 + 9 mils = 81 : 2 = 40.5 mils! This is your number. Retention means static , and you cannot use it when it comes to boxe sales! You cannot multiply numbers of subscriptions with years and then say that 40.5 mils boxes have been sold. What you've done is basically say that 40.5 mil have been played WoW over 8 years! If I understood that correctly! And even so , you cannot actually say that all players have been purchased all the 3 expansion, because that would end up as 121.5 mil boxes sold.Anyway , I am not saying that my calculation is correct! What I am saying is that retention is retantion, and you cannot multiply it by 8 for the sake of just muliply it because it has been out for 8 years!The same 4.5 mil players ( numbers ) today, are the same 4.5 mil from last year! And the 4.5 mil for the last year are the same 4.5 mil from 2 years ago! And yes, there are almost the same players! You can't say that 4.5 mil from this year , are are totaly new from the 4.5 players from last year or 2 year ago! Ok, maybe not ALL of them, but the majority! Originally posted by roo67 Originally posted by IceAge  
    That's why I ended up with 15 mils boxes sold ONLY for expansions! I then add another 5 mil boxes of the original WoW + another 5 mil just for the sake of being .. wrong! Heck, you can also add 5 mil in plus if you want! That would be 30 mil boxes sold!  
    Out of interest how many copys did WoW Vanilla sell in its first month ? Expansions to a popular established  game such as well are bound to sell well  . So really you need to compare the initial months sales of GW2 and WoW in such an arguement .  
    Coming from this person it had: http://www.pvcmuseum.com/games/charts/world-of-warcraft-sales.htm Worldwide (January 2005) - 700,000


    You have added exclamation points, this is good. Not as good as Honey Badger, but still, pretty good. You are also adding references to some of your statements. This is really good. You're still missing some intermediate guessed numbers though. You're supposed to guess a ratio of something and use it in your calculations. Make sure everyone knows it's a "ballpark" figure and you're golden.

    Because Bacon, that's why.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by roo67

    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Originally posted by lizardbones   You didn't use maths, blasting or even Honey Badgers in your numbers. You could have at least thrown in some XFire. Like this: 8 years at 9 million players at a 50% retention rate gives you 9 million + (4.5 million times 7), which is HONEY BADGER!!!!1! No, it's 40.5 million boxes sold. See? That's how we roll around here.  
    Word.
    a) whats a honey badger is it like a normal badger ?

     

    b) will they be playable in the expansion that folllows MoP ?

     



    a) Honey Badger do not give a f***. They just don't.

    b) I don't think so. But if you could, I might actually be able to stomach the mess that was Cataclysm's leveling to play one.

     

    a) Honey Badger is one badass badger. Check this out.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
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  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,855
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
     

    Except WoW never had 9 - 12 million subscriptions.  It had 9 - 12 million active accounts of which a majority of those were in Asia.  The payment model there isn't the $15/mo is it.  So they weren't generating $15/mo  * 9mill players.  They were generating a few million sub dollars plus the rest from Asia which is really hard to calculate.  It's still not surpassed by any Western game, but it pales in comparison to the most popular Asian games.  I think WoW comes in at 5th in revenue comparison to the F2P games.

    I want to point this out because WoW's success is only measured against the Western market but uses it's entire player pool to do so.  The hard to swallow fact is that, compared with Asia, the West is a much smaller demographic.

    ANet will eventually crush WoW because it only has room to grow for several years.  WoW has very little room left to progress.  In all it's kind of a silly comparison because WoW was from a previous paradigm and the world and market are much different now.  I still believe that no one will topple the success Blizzard had at their pinnacle with WoW, including Blizzard themselves.

    I can appreciate your perspective and there is a lot of truth especially about the differences between the western and asian marktets, except it reads like you are trying to trivialize their revenue from the asian markets. Or trying to get us to exclude it.

    And you are also making a pretty bold prediction there. Don't forget, this is ANET's 2nd attempt at this. And it really doesn't look like it's going to happen this time either.

  • ThraliaThralia Member Posts: 219
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    ANet will eventually crush WoW because it only has room to grow for several years.  WoW has very little room left to progress.  In all it's kind of a silly comparison because WoW was from a previous paradigm and the world and market are much different now.  I still believe that no one will topple the success Blizzard had at their pinnacle with WoW, including Blizzard themselves.

    ROFLMAO ! You are DELUSIONAL kid ;)

     

    gw2 sold 2m copies by now as b2p game?  Diablo 3 sold 10m copies prerelease (with wows annual pass but it doesnt matter cause money is money.

     

    not even talking about WoW.. there will never again be a mmorpg so successfull because the market is overflooded.

     

    except project titan possibly. i bought every single  blizzard game since warctaft 2 and i blizzard never failed to impress me and i gladly give them my money for their next MMORPG .

     

  • TdogSkalTdogSkal Member UncommonPosts: 1,244
    Originally posted by Nikkita
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
    Originally posted by DiSpLiFF
    Originally posted by gravesworn
    Really can we compare it to other mmos as far as financial inqury is concerned? Would we not need to compare it to other non subscription based games? Does anyone know how to find the first two weeks of box sales for wow? I dont know how you to compare a subscription based game over a non subscription based game.

    Diablo 3 sold over 3.6 million in 24 hours if you want to compare to non-subscription game. 

    just throwing it out there. 

    Yea but I think its pretty safe to say that Most of those who bought D3 got it because they loved D2 and had to wait 10+ years for a new Diablo and I think its safe to say that the good majority do not play D3 anymore because it was a crappy game.

    So yes Diablo 3 should have out sold Guild Wars 2.  Many more people have been waiting on Diablo 3 then Guild Wars 2.

    7 million total in GW1 sales. Acording to your logic regarding Diablo, GW1 too also has an established fan base so it should have sold a lot more then?

     

    No, per my logic, more then 7 million people played D2 and where waiting for the next Diablo which is a much bigger fan base then Guild wars or Guild wars 2.   Also, People know that Guild Wars 2 is not Guild Wars 1 but people did not know that Diable 3 was not going to be like Diable 2 at the time. 

    You might need to learn about logic before you hurt yourself.

    Sooner or Later

  • TdogSkalTdogSkal Member UncommonPosts: 1,244
    Originally posted by Lethality
    Originally posted by Nikkita
     

    7 million total in GW1 sales. Acording to your logic regarding Diablo, GW1 too also has an established fan base so it should have sold a lot more then?

     

    Yeah they seem to gloss over this. The minute you say GW1 was a minor game, they say BUT IT SOLD 7 MILLOIN!N!N!#!@!

    And as soon as GW2 doesn't sell 7 million, they say NTO AS BIG AS DIABLO LOLOLLO

     

     

    Gloss over what? That D2 had more then 7 million people playing it and waiting for the next diablo?  Nope, nobody but you and the other haters do not realize or care to understand that the Diablo fan base is larger then the Guild Wars 2 fan base. 

    Diablo 3 had people waiting 10+ years for it, of course it sold better.   Non MMO gamer where waiting on Diablo3 as well as MMO gamers.  I know its hard for people like you think there are gamers that never touch MMOs but thats reality.

    Sooner or Later

  • AxiosImmortalAxiosImmortal Member UncommonPosts: 645
    Originally posted by kadepsyson
    Originally posted by fatboy21007
    Look out WoW,  some1 is gaining steam XD

    WoW has more subscribers than GW2 ever will

    Gotta be a troll post, GW2 has no subs.

    Looking at: The Repopulation
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  • wrightstufwrightstuf Member UncommonPosts: 659
    Originally posted by kadepsyson
    Originally posted by fatboy21007
    Look out WoW,  some1 is gaining steam XD

    WoW has more subscribers than GW2 ever will

    thats not saying much, as gw2 doesnt have a subscription :p

     

  • wrightstufwrightstuf Member UncommonPosts: 659
    Originally posted by silverreign

    since the game isnt sub based, the box sales vs actual people playing are deceiving. i bought the game but i am not playing anymore. yet my box sale is being considered as a playing member. 2 million box sales doesnt exactly mean 2 million people playing

    thats a good point. i also bought the game but dont play.

    you cant compare a sub based game to a B2P game easily. its apples to oranges.

    like if you were going by box sales for WoW, for example...its box sales thru the years i'm sure far outnumber its active subs

  • ThraliaThralia Member Posts: 219

    yes yes dont compare p2p with b2p

     

    d3 vs gw2 sales is good ..and oh yeah i still play it and so is everyone of my friends..maybe u dont know but diablo was never a game u play non stop. it was alwaays a game u coem back to and play for few hours.. a backup game for fun in short bursts so to say.

    also we arent here talking if the game is a success for the players..we are talking about success as in sales and i predict GW2 will not reach GW 1 sales ever simply because the market was almost EMPTY when GW1 was released and i myself stuck with it for many many years (also playing wow at same time).

    i mean look at all the MMO releases in 2012 !! its CRAZY how many good new games are coming out and NONE of them will hold the playerbase for long.

     

    2012 is simply a awesome year for the gamer but a very bad year for publishers and developers.

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