Are people really complaining about lack of grind? ( warning:this post does not have a wall of text)

GamerUntouch

People don't know what they want.

I know what they want though, they want WoW.

 

Give them something new and they complain.

Give them the same and they complain.

 

People don't like MMOs and should stop bothering.

Odinthedark1

Originally posted by GamerUntouch

People don't know what they want.

I know what they want though, they want WoW.

 

Give them something new and they complain.

Give them the same and they complain.

 

People don't like MMOs and should stop bothering.

Playing it alt tabbed as i type this, what i REALLY want is a WoW with modern graphics and content just as good, lol.

Edit: Never played vanilla but i liked Burning Crusade....it just kept getting worse and more dumbed down though.

Nadia

Originally posted by coretex666

 I think that it would be nice if some AAA MMO went for different endgame than WoW`s one without actually having to remove the vertical progression after level CAP completely.

The way GW does it is suitable for this type of game and for what it attempts to be. It just wont appeal to everyone. I just do not think that people who do want some sort of vertical progression necessarily want another WoW clone. The progression can be done in many different ways than gear grind.

To me, it often seems that people do not acknowledge this and ultimately tell everyone who wants some vertical progression to go back to WoW or one of its clones. It does not need to be the way WoW does it, yet it does not have to be completely unpresent like in GW.

i agree with this

altho a few people have posted: some people want the *gear grind* of raiding - and to each their own

Nadia

Originally posted by Odinthedark1

what i REALLY want is a WoW with modern graphics and content just as good, lol.

Edit: Never played vanilla but i liked Burning Crusade....it just kept getting worse and more dumbed down though.

offtopic but the RIFT expansion trailer looks good

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k68DrZohC2g&feature=g-all-u

Onigod

I just had to kill like 9 and a half mob of the same kind.... this grind meng..

SlickShoes

Originally posted by nazrek89

if guild wars has grind that's fine - but the grind is for aboslutely nothing.

You're going to say WvWvW - but, what the heck, for a 5% boost to something nearly useless? Granted - it's fun for now. (personally a bit dull to me after the first week) but imagine after we've all played it all the way to 80, and for a month or two - there isn't much to hold us there.

 

Okay okay, so maybe end game dungeons. Well, believe it or not, people want the gear grind for RAIDS. No matter how much someone hates on raiding - that's what they grind the dungeon gear for and work their way to 80. And, my god, oh, my lord (exaggeration skill 100x), can you imagine how crappy a guild wars 2 raid would be? lmao. ALL 25 or 40 OF YOU! JUST FEND FOR YOURSELF. SPAM SKILLS. AND LETS ZERG THIS BEAST!... hehe - no. No trinity is fine and dandy, until players want an organized battle that takes coordination and cooperation of a group effort. then all hell breaks loose.

Okay my bad, so this game is focused on PvP. And boy oh boy, does pvp sure have a grind. But for what!?! AGAIN! For simply cosmetic purposes? SO I CAN BE OH SO HIP AND HIGH FASHION BABY HEH DOES MY LONG COAT WITH EMBROIDERY MAKE YOU HORNY BABY?! Eh.. it's cool for the first week to look like a badass, but as a human, we want to FEEL something in order to believe in it. Not just see it. And we don't feel so powerful with a coat that has changed looks 10x, but the stats are identical every time. 

 

So - it's not really that lack of grind. It's the lack of "want' or "reason" behind the grind in this game. The grind is there. Most definitely. PvE and PvP. But it's worthless and what we old schoolers feel we are working towards is putting this game back on the shelf with every other MMO since UO/EQ and SWG PRE CU, / DAoC. /wave

Even if they had a ranking system for PvP. Where i could see my stats. Watch myself get better or worse. Compare myself to others. Play a 5v5 based on my teams rank or my personal stats combined with others rather than a random 5v5 with one pre-made and one single queued 5 person team.

But no, simple things such as that don't exist. As far as ranks go - they don't even feel that important. You can win a tournament your first time playing and all of a sudden your gear looks just as good as rank 10-19 gear (deer) because free tournament gear tier 2-3 just..does. So even the simple shitty rank by xp bar means nothing.

 

Gr. I want this game to be good. i really do. and i wanted a home. but , every night i'm reading mroe and more about people feeling the same way i do and i realize finally it's not just me. i even saw this coming in beta. i just tried to hide from it.

 

another one is going to bite the dust. 

 

I went off a bit on a .. twirl. But for the most part i was dedicated towards admitting the grind, but the huge fault  line of it.

Thanks. I'm done. Carry on

Just because you want raids in every game doesn't mean everyone else does.

I played the matrix online, SWG and Dark Age of Camelot for a total of 4 years without doing a single raid.

The only time I have raided in any game has been WoW, not everyone that loves MMO's wants to raid as the end game content, I am prefectly happy doing a myriad of other things rather than raiding as a second job.

You have a problem when the only upgrade to your gear is cosmetic, but many people enjoy changing the way there character looks. I don't want to use the BIG BASTARD COAT OF UGLY just because it has great stats.

khameleon

MMORPG players are a joke. 

 

They don't even know what they want.

 

If you give them full pvp then they complain about looters and griefers, etc.

If you give them sandbox then they don't like that there is no map with all points and that they don't know what to do.....

If you give them no grind they forget what there is  to do other than grinding endless and aimlessly.

If you give them full themepark they say WOW clone and dismiss the game.

 

This genre is full of whiners and complainers that are lost and do not know what they want or what a good or bad mmorpg even is.

Odinthedark1

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Odinthedark1

what i REALLY want is a WoW with modern graphics and content just as good, lol.

Edit: Never played vanilla but i liked Burning Crusade....it just kept getting worse and more dumbed down though.

offtopic but the RIFT expansion trailer looks good

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k68DrZohC2g&feature=g-all-u

Wow ur right that first boss looks crazy insane as he towers over like 40 players lol.

Doomedfox

People who complain about the lack of grind must be out of there mind.

GW2 is one of the most grindy games i have ever played whoever complains abot the lack of grind just did not play this game and is just hating.

Odinthedark1

Originally posted by Doomedfox

People who complain about the lack of grind must be out of there mind.

GW2 is one of the most grindy games i have ever played whoever complains abot the lack of grind just did not play this game and is just hating.

Not so much the lack of a grind as the lack of a meaningful grind.

Mikeha

I dont see why people keep saying grind. A grind is a repeative action thats not enjoyable. Just because you work toward getting something or work toward doing something does not mean you are grinding. This is what people are complaining about. They are not complaining about a lack of grind.

dzoni87

Originally posted by khameleon

MMORPG players are a joke. 

 

They don't even know what they want.

 

If you give them full pvp then they complain about looters and griefers, etc.

If you give them sandbox then they don't like that there is no map with all points and that they don't know what to do.....

If you give them no grind they forget what there is  to do other than grinding endless and aimlessly.

If you give them full themepark they say WOW clone and dismiss the game.

 

This genre is full of whiners and complainers that are lost and do not know what they want or what a good or bad mmorpg even is.

Pretty much with you on this... 

This is the same reason why i am losing interest with MMORPGs more and more. Tha bad thing is that devs change the play style according to constant un-objective complaints of playerbase. I mean look at the WoW now..

Could it be that we may see End-game Tiered Radis in GW2 as well in future. Who knows. If that will be the case, i will stop following MMORPG genre as a whole

Well, hope that wont be the case.

MMOwanderer

Originally posted by coretex666

Are people complaining about lack of vertical character progression / development? Yes. (the type of people who appreciate it in MMOs)

Are people complaining about lack of GRIND? No.

 

I think this may be it. I actually don't remember anyone saying the game lacked "grinding".

lifeordinary

Originally posted by coretex666

 I think that it would be nice if some AAA MMO went for different endgame than WoW`s one without actually having to remove the vertical progression after level CAP completely.

The way GW does it is suitable for this type of game and for what it attempts to be. It just wont appeal to everyone. I just do not think that people who do want some sort of vertical progression necessarily want another WoW clone. The progression can be done in many different ways than gear grind.

To me, it often seems that people do not acknowledge this and ultimately tell everyone who wants some vertical progression to go back to WoW or one of its clones. It does not need to be the way WoW does it, yet it does not have to be completely unpresent like in GW.

There is vertical progression in GW2 to acquire weapons and armor but it is not directly related to dungeons. Does that solve the problem? in GW2 there is no content locked away or divided in tiers, based on what armor you are wearing. What GW2 has done is that it seperated armor / weapon progression from dungeon progression.

Muntz

Originally posted by MMOwanderer

Originally posted by coretex666

Are people complaining about lack of vertical character progression / development? Yes. (the type of people who appreciate it in MMOs)

Are people complaining about lack of GRIND? No.

 

I think this may be it. I actually don't remember anyone saying the game lacked "grinding".

To what end? The game is designed without a strong vertical progression; content is balanced for it. The challenges are there. Vertical progression for the sake of vertical progression is time == power. Certainly many MMOs go this route but it isn't a  must have. Guild Wars 2 gives you time == prestige. IMHO this opens up more options for players both casual and hardcore as there are many, many ways to get prestige one of which is how your  gear looks but it isn't the only route. If you need the better gear/stats progression you will be disappointed, I recommend not getting the game but I'd ask myself why do I need it. Again, it's my opinion but the games that do the better gear/stats really limit the reward system of the game and worse limit game play to a single tread mill. I've lost interest in such games. 

vesuvias

Originally posted by MMOwanderer

Originally posted by coretex666

Are people complaining about lack of vertical character progression / development? Yes. (the type of people who appreciate it in MMOs)

Are people complaining about lack of GRIND? No.

 

I think this may be it. I actually don't remember anyone saying the game lacked "grinding".

What these particular people are complaining about, without really even knowing it, is a lack of  PvE competition where time commitment trumps every other aspect of gameplay and the game atrificially inflates power to support it. They loved thier old school MMO's where 2 years of 8 hour a day commitment was supported in game with such a huge power differential that no newb would dare challenge them. Newbs weren't worthy of the latest content they needed to "EARN" it... the old fashioned way... by playing the same content in a video game over and over agian 8 hours a day for years straight.

 

What they fail to understand is that Arenanet specifically and very intentionally sacrificed  that gameplay for inclusion and elimination of barriers to entry. Arenanet wisely realised that we were never really playing a "Massively" Multiplayer games since most players could never actually play togeather because of these huge power differentials. We were simply playing along side of each other. Yeah you had you 10 closest friends doing content with you but you never needed and in alot of cases couldn't play with the other 10,000 that populated your server.

 

The type of gameplay wanted by these naysayers is better provided by co-op rpgs. Massively Multiplayer games should be inclusive at all costs or there is no point is being Massive.

Darkmoth

While I'm as much a fan of vertical progression as anyone, it doesn't have to exist in every game. GW2 is what it is, and I think it's done a great job at achieving it's goals.

GW2 isn't a vertical progression game. WoW and Rift are. Isn't that what we want - variety in the MMO gamespace?

Nadia

Originally posted by Darkmoth

While I'm as much a fan of vertical progression as anyone, it doesn't have to exist in every game. GW2 is what it is, and I think it's done a great job at achieving it's goals.

GW2 isn't a vertical progression game. WoW and Rift are. Isn't that what we want - variety in the MMO gamespace?

i share the same viewpoint