I don't usually root for games. I figure if a game fails, the developer did something wrong and it the game should fail. Survival of the fittest and all that. With TSW though, I find myself wanting the game to recover. I don't even play the game. I have no interest in paying a sub and I have no interest in going from quest hub to quest hub and ending up in a repetitiveendgameraidgeargrind either, but I still would like this game to do better.
That's my feeling too, though I did play it.
Where it hurts is that the biggest issues with the game IMO, a sizable number of buggy, broken quests(don't tell me I just don't know how to solve them, I do), are issues that I doubt dictated the lackluster box sales. People just looked at the overall idea and sounded a collective "meh.". Which sucks for me because I like the premise ALOT.
I do have to wonder if they turned alot of people off having box sales, a sub, AND a cash shop.
I wondered the same in a previous thread, I don't understand why the box sales were so low. I loved the idea of the setting (but not its execution) but I didn't know the latter until I played it. Maybe a combination of the Funcom brand, the sub + cashshop as you say, and just bad marketing and sales work. Who knows.
Considering they just laid off folks and are trying to maintain regular releases for their latest game, I'm not surprised they will delay the engine upgrade for AO. Let's face it, AO is not the current money maker (or even the potential money maker at this point), so it would be foolish for them to concentrate any of their resources on that game right now. TSW first and AoC second at this point, with a very small strike team focusing on the smaller, more micro-market MMO gaming field. Concentrating on core interest markets is the future of MMOs, and I think it's the right choice for Funcom. The days of big budget AAA MMOs are gone.
Exactly. But that is the point. Funcom's word means nothing. They change their direction and reword things constantly. They are so wishywashy chasing dollars. It doesn't matter if it's foolish or not. What's more foolish is to Promise something in 2007, not deliver it, continue to promise even as recently as March and still not deliver. And BTW, it's boards are silent. The last update from Dev was in June and it was locked...Go figure.
They have irrpairably damaged theri own reputation. It's not like the project I listed above was some "we'll see when we get to it" back burner project. It's been promised vaporware for longer than many MMOs have been alive.
As soon as some other obstacle or opportunity makes supporting TSW inconvienient or has questionable profitability, you'll see what happens with TSW.
Seeing both funcom AND ea on the box. People either thought not Aoc again or not swtor again. Although its a much better game than both (if your a heavy pveer)
Originally posted by Adiaris Originally posted by RobsolfOriginally posted by lizardbonesI don't usually root for games. I figure if a game fails, the developer did something wrong and it the game should fail. Survival of the fittest and all that. With TSW though, I find myself wanting the game to recover. I don't even play the game. I have no interest in paying a sub and I have no interest in going from quest hub to quest hub and ending up in a repetitiveendgameraidgeargrind either, but I still would like this game to do better.
That's my feeling too, though I did play it. Where it hurts is that the biggest issues with the game IMO, a sizable number of buggy, broken quests(don't tell me I just don't know how to solve them, I do), are issues that I doubt dictated the lackluster box sales. People just looked at the overall idea and sounded a collective "meh.". Which sucks for me because I like the premise ALOT. I do have to wonder if they turned alot of people off having box sales, a sub, AND a cash shop.I wondered the same in a previous thread, I don't understand why the box sales were so low. I loved the idea of the setting (but not its execution) but I didn't know the latter until I played it. Maybe a combination of the Funcom brand, the sub + cashshop as you say, and just bad marketing and sales work. Who knows.
I don't think it's the cost nearly as much as who they used to market their game. I'm sure there's something that Facebook is good for marketing, but I don't think a game like TSW is it. They reached a lot of people, but it was all the wrong people.
Here's something else too, the Facebook game didn't give any impression of what the game would be like. That game was about territory control. TSW isn't about territory control. I think some sort of open world territory control based on pve missions would have been cool.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by lizardbonesI don't usually root for games. I figure if a game fails, the developer did something wrong and it the game should fail. Survival of the fittest and all that. With TSW though, I find myself wanting the game to recover. I don't even play the game. I have no interest in paying a sub and I have no interest in going from quest hub to quest hub and ending up in a repetitiveendgameraidgeargrind either, but I still would like this game to do better.
That's my feeling too, though I did play it. Where it hurts is that the biggest issues with the game IMO, a sizable number of buggy, broken quests(don't tell me I just don't know how to solve them, I do), are issues that I doubt dictated the lackluster box sales. People just looked at the overall idea and sounded a collective "meh.". Which sucks for me because I like the premise ALOT. I do have to wonder if they turned alot of people off having box sales, a sub, AND a cash shop.
I wondered the same in a previous thread, I don't understand why the box sales were so low. I loved the idea of the setting (but not its execution) but I didn't know the latter until I played it. Maybe a combination of the Funcom brand, the sub + cashshop as you say, and just bad marketing and sales work. Who knows.
I don't think it's the cost nearly as much as who they used to market their game. I'm sure there's something that Facebook is good for marketing, but I don't think a game like TSW is it. They reached a lot of people, but it was all the wrong people.
Here's something else too, the Facebook game didn't give any impression of what the game would be like. That game was about territory control. TSW isn't about territory control. I think some sort of open world territory control based on pve missions would have been cool.
Ah yes, had forgotten about that. I didn't look into it. Generally, I'm in favour of using multiple tools for a launch campaign, and especially in the mmo market I think companies are too tunnel visioned and need to branch out to potential new customers, but if their FB app had nothing to do with the game itself... that's bad. Still, it would result in loss of subs rather than loss of box purchases (ie. I did the FB thing loved it, bought the game and WTF no territory control!). Still definitely had some impact one way or the other, thanks for posting!
Originally posted by lizardbones Originally posted by ShakyMo What quest hubs. Theres like one hub in the entire game, in the newbie zone.
Well, they shouldn't have put it there. I got tired of it after the first few quests. I wouldn't be surprised if that's why a lot of people in the beta didn't buy the game. I would be surprised if the general feel of the game changed considerably after the newbie zone too. This update talks about a 10 man raid. It's a raid...one of the main reasons I've stopped playing MMORPG. Raids are too much on the OCD end of the spectrum. I need things closer to the ADD end of the spectrum.
In any event, I'm not going to buy the game and sign up for a sub to find out if the feeling of running through quest hubs goes away. I do want this game to do better than it has, but the setting and the story wasn't enough to overcome the feeling that I was just doing the same old things with different graphics.
TSW is a great game, I'm still enjoying it after 3 months almost as much as I enjoy the doom-sayers who take a break from GW2 to come troll these boards in creative new ways.
Originally posted by tryklon Did not read anything about improving horrible animations... is he improving horrible animations soon?
No, FunCom has no plans to implement a patch based solely on the personal opinions of a vocal minority.
The animations are fine.
Apparently that vocal minority is bigger than you think if they only sold 200k and are already thinking of alternate strategies to keep the game afloat.....And I'm sorry but the animations and combat in this game were flat out awful.
Apparently that vocal minority is bigger than you think if they only sold 200k and are already thinking of alternate strategies to keep the game afloat.....And I'm sorry but the animations and combat in this game were flat out awful.
Well it's apparent to you that the 'animations and combat in this game were flat out awful'... since you've been repeating that line rather consistently of late.
Personally, I think the animations and combat are fine - could they use some polish? I suppose so, but it's been my experience that combat/animations only takes up a small part of the game experience. If I see the same animation repeatedly, no matter how fluid or organic it seems, then I'm eventually going to just file it away in the background and focus on the gameplay.
Apparently that vocal minority is bigger than you think if they only sold 200k and are already thinking of alternate strategies to keep the game afloat.....And I'm sorry but the animations and combat in this game were flat out awful.
Well it's apparent to you that the 'animations and combat in this game were flat out awful'... since you've been repeating that line rather consistently of late.
Personally, I think the animations and combat are fine - could they use some polish? I suppose so, but it's been my experience that combat/animations only takes up a small part of the game experience. If I see the same animation repeatedly, no matter how fluid or organic it seems, then I'm eventually going to just file it away in the background and focus on the gameplay.
To each their own. /shrug
Yeah I was very disappointed in the game...I thought it would be alot better, but like you say to each their own.
It's a shame if it had come out in 2011 it would have been mmo of the year. It is so much a better mmo than swtor.
I will probably POP back for the occasional month once some more quests from the monthly issues have built up, but there's nothing for me endgame since they cut the pvp back and made it a wow like token grind. Which is a shame as the skill wheel, 3 sides and the combat is ideal for pvp. If they'd stuck with the original agartha plan I would have probably not even bothered with gw2.
It's a shame they bottled it and made pvp to compete with wow/swtor/rift rather than pvp to compete with gw2 / ps2, would have been enough a year ago but not now, now pvpers have options.
Did it cross your mind that TSW is a vastly more important venture to this company? Especially considering their financial situation..
Certainly. However, I'm not reassured by that. In fact, I think it makes their situation even worse. After they implemented the full fledged cash shop in AO, the game just went in the tank. It was in a bad situation, but it was still saveable. Once they implemented the cash shop, (and not the one they had from years ago with costumes, and hover bikes. I mean the new one. They took all the things wrong with AO, and made half-assed workarounds you could buy in the form of consumables from the shop.
"Not enough people online to get the buffs you need? Don't worry, we will sell the buffs in the cash shop."
"What? You say there aren't enough players in the game anymore to form groups to go out and level? Well, we arne't going to fix the code in the game to make it possible for players to level, but we will put leveling packs in the cash shop."
That list can go on.
They also killed 2 major sources of in-game income for both the paid customers (S-10 turn ins) and Fr00bs (Token Gun bags) in order to funnel players to buy items in the CS and resell them in game. And that doesn't even count the fact that this cash shop is Pay2Win
Did I mention there is a P2W cash shop in a game that still charges a $15.00 monthly sub fee?
This is FC's mentality. What makes anyone think that won't permiate TSW once the dust settles?
Fact is, now, this company has not choice but to try and wring every cent from TSW as they can.
Originally posted by tryklon Did not read anything about improving horrible animations... is he improving horrible animations soon?
I guess you mean quest animations? They are really bad. Bad. Period. And boring ad nauseam. But about combat have no complains. But stopped to play for other reasons. Mainly I was bothered by button mashing feeling because 7 buttons are simply not enough. Not enough to be fun. And there were few others issues, but not really important for me.
It's a shame if it had come out in 2011 it would have been mmo of the year. It is so much a better mmo than swtor.
I will probably POP back for the occasional month once some more quests from the monthly issues have built up, but there's nothing for me endgame since they cut the pvp back and made it a wow like token grind. Which is a shame as the skill wheel, 3 sides and the combat is ideal for pvp. If they'd stuck with the original agartha plan I would have probably not even bothered with gw2.
It's a shame they bottled it and made pvp to compete with wow/swtor/rift rather than pvp to compete with gw2 / ps2, would have been enough a year ago but not now, now pvpers have options.
I don't see a problem with this idea - if folks would prefer to go to other games, and check back with TSW when more content is released, then that's a perfectly fine idea. In fact, I would expect it... and based on his letter, it's clear Ragnar understands it too. TSW is in need of more content, to be sure - and if Funcom is committed to the TSW project, then we'll see it over time.
Heck, given enough time and growth, PvP might get a needed revamp to bring it more in-line with what PvPers are asking for. I'm not a PvPer so I wouldn't know, but so far, Ragnar & Co. have been pretty active in answering questions and concerns on the TSW forums so I know they're looking at feedback there.
Comments
I wondered the same in a previous thread, I don't understand why the box sales were so low. I loved the idea of the setting (but not its execution) but I didn't know the latter until I played it. Maybe a combination of the Funcom brand, the sub + cashshop as you say, and just bad marketing and sales work. Who knows.
Exactly. But that is the point. Funcom's word means nothing. They change their direction and reword things constantly. They are so wishywashy chasing dollars. It doesn't matter if it's foolish or not. What's more foolish is to Promise something in 2007, not deliver it, continue to promise even as recently as March and still not deliver. And BTW, it's boards are silent. The last update from Dev was in June and it was locked...Go figure.
They have irrpairably damaged theri own reputation. It's not like the project I listed above was some "we'll see when we get to it" back burner project. It's been promised vaporware for longer than many MMOs have been alive.
As soon as some other obstacle or opportunity makes supporting TSW inconvienient or has questionable profitability, you'll see what happens with TSW.
Seeing both funcom AND ea on the box. People either thought not Aoc again or not swtor again. Although its a much better game than both (if your a heavy pveer)
I'd say more of a man who knows some good PR will keep him in a paycheck. Prolly some passion there to, but not the driving force.
I wondered the same in a previous thread, I don't understand why the box sales were so low. I loved the idea of the setting (but not its execution) but I didn't know the latter until I played it. Maybe a combination of the Funcom brand, the sub + cashshop as you say, and just bad marketing and sales work. Who knows.
I don't think it's the cost nearly as much as who they used to market their game. I'm sure there's something that Facebook is good for marketing, but I don't think a game like TSW is it. They reached a lot of people, but it was all the wrong people.
Here's something else too, the Facebook game didn't give any impression of what the game would be like. That game was about territory control. TSW isn't about territory control. I think some sort of open world territory control based on pve missions would have been cool.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Ah yes, had forgotten about that. I didn't look into it. Generally, I'm in favour of using multiple tools for a launch campaign, and especially in the mmo market I think companies are too tunnel visioned and need to branch out to potential new customers, but if their FB app had nothing to do with the game itself... that's bad. Still, it would result in loss of subs rather than loss of box purchases (ie. I did the FB thing loved it, bought the game and WTF no territory control!). Still definitely had some impact one way or the other, thanks for posting!
Well, they shouldn't have put it there. I got tired of it after the first few quests. I wouldn't be surprised if that's why a lot of people in the beta didn't buy the game. I would be surprised if the general feel of the game changed considerably after the newbie zone too. This update talks about a 10 man raid. It's a raid...one of the main reasons I've stopped playing MMORPG. Raids are too much on the OCD end of the spectrum. I need things closer to the ADD end of the spectrum.
In any event, I'm not going to buy the game and sign up for a sub to find out if the feeling of running through quest hubs goes away. I do want this game to do better than it has, but the setting and the story wasn't enough to overcome the feeling that I was just doing the same old things with different graphics.
Trial version is for three days. Don't have to spend a dime to check it out:
http://www.thesecretworld.com/news/sign_up_now_for_our_free_three_day_trial
Apparently that vocal minority is bigger than you think if they only sold 200k and are already thinking of alternate strategies to keep the game afloat.....And I'm sorry but the animations and combat in this game were flat out awful.
Well it's apparent to you that the 'animations and combat in this game were flat out awful'... since you've been repeating that line rather consistently of late.
Personally, I think the animations and combat are fine - could they use some polish? I suppose so, but it's been my experience that combat/animations only takes up a small part of the game experience. If I see the same animation repeatedly, no matter how fluid or organic it seems, then I'm eventually going to just file it away in the background and focus on the gameplay.
To each their own. /shrug
Can't wait until they "back down". Well, more than they already have.
I think the term will be "bend over", not "back down", next time.
Yeah I was very disappointed in the game...I thought it would be alot better, but like you say to each their own.
Well I'm not disappointed in TSW, so on that regard we'll just have to 'agree to disagree'... and leave it at that.
./Beats fist on podium for effect
"We...
Won't...
Back...
Dow.............
.....................
hey what's that over there....did someone drop a dollar?"
Did it cross your mind that TSW is a vastly more important venture to this company? Especially considering their financial situation..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I just like gw2 more
It's a shame if it had come out in 2011 it would have been mmo of the year. It is so much a better mmo than swtor.
I will probably POP back for the occasional month once some more quests from the monthly issues have built up, but there's nothing for me endgame since they cut the pvp back and made it a wow like token grind. Which is a shame as the skill wheel, 3 sides and the combat is ideal for pvp. If they'd stuck with the original agartha plan I would have probably not even bothered with gw2.
It's a shame they bottled it and made pvp to compete with wow/swtor/rift rather than pvp to compete with gw2 / ps2, would have been enough a year ago but not now, now pvpers have options.
Certainly. However, I'm not reassured by that. In fact, I think it makes their situation even worse. After they implemented the full fledged cash shop in AO, the game just went in the tank. It was in a bad situation, but it was still saveable. Once they implemented the cash shop, (and not the one they had from years ago with costumes, and hover bikes. I mean the new one. They took all the things wrong with AO, and made half-assed workarounds you could buy in the form of consumables from the shop.
"Not enough people online to get the buffs you need? Don't worry, we will sell the buffs in the cash shop."
"What? You say there aren't enough players in the game anymore to form groups to go out and level? Well, we arne't going to fix the code in the game to make it possible for players to level, but we will put leveling packs in the cash shop."
That list can go on.
They also killed 2 major sources of in-game income for both the paid customers (S-10 turn ins) and Fr00bs (Token Gun bags) in order to funnel players to buy items in the CS and resell them in game. And that doesn't even count the fact that this cash shop is Pay2Win
Did I mention there is a P2W cash shop in a game that still charges a $15.00 monthly sub fee?
This is FC's mentality. What makes anyone think that won't permiate TSW once the dust settles?
Fact is, now, this company has not choice but to try and wring every cent from TSW as they can.
I guess you mean quest animations? They are really bad. Bad. Period. And boring ad nauseam. But about combat have no complains. But stopped to play for other reasons. Mainly I was bothered by button mashing feeling because 7 buttons are simply not enough. Not enough to be fun. And there were few others issues, but not really important for me.
I don't see a problem with this idea - if folks would prefer to go to other games, and check back with TSW when more content is released, then that's a perfectly fine idea. In fact, I would expect it... and based on his letter, it's clear Ragnar understands it too. TSW is in need of more content, to be sure - and if Funcom is committed to the TSW project, then we'll see it over time.
Heck, given enough time and growth, PvP might get a needed revamp to bring it more in-line with what PvPers are asking for. I'm not a PvPer so I wouldn't know, but so far, Ragnar & Co. have been pretty active in answering questions and concerns on the TSW forums so I know they're looking at feedback there.