Every single game ever created, only exists because of the accomplishments of previous creations. The game development industry is essentially one huge, disorganized, collaborative entity. New games build on the accomplishments of old games, and seek to improve their shortcomings.
So it really doesn't matter if a game is "first" with a feature. All that matters is that it is able to take what others in the industry have created and build upon that to create a wonderful, unique, work of art.
I liked that part, very much. I mean Pong was for sure based on the accomplishments of the other console based games before it. And im sure that the other Genre defining games were simply built on accomplishments of previous creations as you said.
Originally posted by artemisentr4 The overall solo experience. You can have all the benefits of solo play while auto grouping for the DEs. No need to feel anti social while trying to race to nodes or mobs to tag them first. No need to look for a group for most content. It is a much better social solo experience if you will.
I say this to you and those who feel like you as respectfully as possible.
Please get out of the MMORPG genre. People like you have been ruining games in my genre of choice since EQ and probably even DAOC/UO but never played those long enough to know.
I actually dislike solo-rpgs and find that I cant get involved in the game enough because all I am doing is interacting with scripted events and scripted NPC chatter. That doesnt make me go and complain about SRPG's not having anyone around to play with, but what it does drive me to do is go out and find MMORPG's and realize that grouping up with real people around the world and sharing an amazing adventure in which we talk about our lives (RP or RL) and joke around is exactly what I was looking for.
Then somehow you, who actually likes soloing through games, and all your vocal friends come along and tell the developers of the games that I have now found and entrenched myself in, that you dont like how you cant play the game alone and they should cater to you. Well since youre so vocal and there are so many, they cave, and the genre loses.
In summation, Please stop wanting ANY MMORPG to be more solo friendly. Period.
Originally posted by artemisentr4 The overall solo experience. You can have all the benefits of solo play while auto grouping for the DEs. No need to feel anti social while trying to race to nodes or mobs to tag them first. No need to look for a group for most content. It is a much better social solo experience if you will.
I say this to you and those who feel like you as respectfully as possible.
Please get out of the MMORPG genre. People like you have been ruining games in my genre of choice since EQ and probably even DAOC/UO but never played those long enough to know.
I actually dislike solo-rpgs and find that I cant get involved in the game enough because all I am doing is interacting with scripted events and scripted NPC chatter. That doesnt make me go and complain about SRPG's not having anyone around to play with, but what it does drive me to do is go out and find MMORPG's and realize that grouping up with real people around the world and sharing an amazing adventure in which we talk about our lives (RP or RL) and joke around is exactly what I was looking for.
Then somehow you, who actually likes soloing through games, and all your vocal friends come along and tell the developers of the games that I have now found and entrenched myself in, that you dont like how you cant play the game alone and they should cater to you. Well since youre so vocal and there are so many, they cave, and the genre loses.
In summation, Please stop wanting ANY MMORPG to be more solo friendly. Period.
Not everyone plays MMOs for the same reason you do. Just to name 3:
Living economies / markets
PvP instead of fighting scripts
Playing in a world that is constantly evolving and changing (both through continued development, and the actions of players)
Another thread where people name a dozen games and several genres to describe everything GW2 does and then proceed to say there is no innovation while choosing to ignore some aspects like depositing to the storage or receiving maill from everywhere.
What single game does all the things GW2 does?
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
While im sure many people will reason as to what GW2 changed or improved, it's just dancing around the question...in answer to the question, it has no true innovation whatsoever.
Everything in GW2 has been done before in one guise or another.
The only thing I can think of is that since playing pre-launch I have not spoken to any NPC to get a quest. I just go around exploring, fighting new mob or "grinding" to get crafting mats (mining, gathering, ...) and once in a while (frequently actually) i get a notification that something is happening. I go help with the mission/event, get massive XP then go back to exploring and getting crafting mats. When I do remember that there is a "story" i go to the main quest line, finishing one or two quests, then go back to exploration and gathering.
The above is the one thing that sets GW2 apart from other MMOs to me. The rest is just very polished.
How long can this keep me entertained? What happens when I will max out crafting, exploration and hit the level cap? To be seen....
Not everyone plays MMOs for the same reason you do. Just to name 3:
Living economies / markets
PvP instead of fighting scripts
Playing in a world that is constantly evolving and changing (both through continued development, and the actions of players)
None of those requires grouping or socializing
Actually a living economy and markets do require socializing. That is until EQ introduced the Bazaar which allowed one to turn their character into a browsable merchant with a search feature built into the zone. (quite unfortunately IMHO, Luclin/PoP were the start of the decline of the entire genre if you ask me but thats a whole other discussion)
PvP, unless it is solely 1v1, requires socialization.
A world that constantly evolves through the actions of players should and would require socializing.
All of those require socialization to occur.
Edit
Afterthought - To those talking about invention and innovation, its po-ta-to po-tah-to thing. In my opinion the inventions are the games/genres themselves, the innovations are the brand new concepts some developers decide to take the time and effort come up with to make their game.
Then there are what you are all calling innovations, which is really just stealing someones idea and putting your wrapper on it. Some call it "Polishing" - This is more on the lines of what is happening, since games would be very odd if they didnt use anything from other games in their genres, Polishing is really the term for what you are all describing, not innovation.
Another thread where people name a dozen games and several genres to describe everything GW2 does and then proceed to say there is no innovation while choosing to ignore some aspects like depositing to the storage or receiving maill from everywhere.
Maybe if the threads stopped proclaiming all the things it innovates people wouldn't feel the need to argue ... but ofc it's the people who disagree's fault and not those who keep saying " it's a revolution " right ?
Seriously you walk into a bar and claim " Donald Duck was the first man on the moon " don't be surprised if people argue with you
People should just enjoy the damn game already and stop trying to worship the golden calf
MMO players scare me sometimes , their actions are borderline cultish
Now did anyone actual read the article i linked to earlier ? I give you Meowheads list of innovations in GW2 !
1. GW2 deliver an AAA MMO with a B2P model. GW1
2. Remove the fight over resources in the PvE world. What does that even mean?
3. Play with who you want, when you want, how you want. (sidekicking up is though removed now) Just partially negated yourself. The part you didnt negate was debunked by someone esle in this thread, EQ2 has had mentoring.
4. Mass PvP is better when it's bigger. Many MMO's have had large scale PvP.
5. Have a relatively low power ceiling, then go for horizontal expansion. Dont really see the innovation, but I may just give you this one... still unsure atm.
6. MMO PvP can be done as an E-Sport. Just because the developers talk about E-sports, doesnt make this the only viable game for it. Any MMO that allows PvP can easily have E-Sports around it if they want or if the community builds it.
7. It's not what you play with, it's who you play with. Shouldnt have included this point, as it does not pertain to any sort of innovation.
8. The controls of an MMO with the abilities of a MOBA and the physical interactions of an FPS. With a pinch of Magic the Gathering. Never seen Darkfall I suppose.
9. Try and have the best soundtrack ever in an MMORPG
Now did anyone actual read the article i linked to earlier ? I give you Meowheads list of innovations in GW2 !
1. GW2 deliver an AAA MMO with a B2P model. GW1
2. Remove the fight over resources in the PvE world. What does that even mean?
3. Play with who you want, when you want, how you want. (sidekicking up is though removed now) Just partially negated yourself. The part you didnt negate was debunked by someone esle in this thread, EQ2 has had mentoring.
4. Mass PvP is better when it's bigger. Many MMO's have had large scale PvP.
5. Have a relatively low power ceiling, then go for horizontal expansion. Dont really see the innovation, but I may just give you this one... still unsure atm.
6. MMO PvP can be done as an E-Sport. Just because the developers talk about E-sports, doesnt make this the only viable game for it. Any MMO that allows PvP can easily have E-Sports around it if they want or if the community builds it.
7. It's not what you play with, it's who you play with. Shouldnt have included this point, as it does not pertain to any sort of innovation.
8. The controls of an MMO with the abilities of a MOBA and the physical interactions of an FPS. With a pinch of Magic the Gathering. Never seen Darkfall I suppose.
9. Try and have the best soundtrack ever in an MMORPG
---
To clarify on point 2: Resource nodes are "instanced" for each player. A mineral node may appear exhausted once you mined it, but other players can still mine from that very node you exhausted.
Questing Format... but its generally the same thing. A 'collective objective' quest over having several different quests.
Outside that, nothing much really.A game really doesn't need to innovate to be good. Look at Rift. despite what neighsayers go on about, it is highly successful for what its for and it didn't do anything to really 'change' the MMO market. Most innovation comes from lesser known games and often times importanted into a big name game which takes credit from an idea they took elsewhere.
Another thread where people name a dozen games and several genres to describe everything GW2 does and then proceed to say there is no innovation while choosing to ignore some aspects like depositing to the storage or receiving maill from everywhere.
Maybe if the threads stopped proclaiming all the things it innovates people wouldn't feel the need to argue ... but ofc it's the people who disagree's fault and not those who keep saying " it's a revolution " right ?
Seriously you walk into a bar and claim " Donald Duck was the first man on the moon " don't be surprised if people argue with you
People should just enjoy the damn game already and stop trying to worship the golden calf
MMO players scare me sometimes , their actions are borderline cultish
Sometimes the sum of all parts exceed the parts.
Just because many of the things GW2 have been done before in a way or another, the fact is that they either haven't been done just like GW2 does it and/or they haven't been done at the same time in the same game.
Being able to take a photo of the amazing place you are with your mobile and send it to another person as you talk to them expressing what you feel in the moment, will be a complete difference from talking and then show them the photo when you arrive to your hotel.
People try to simply look at the parts individually, when it is the way they all work together at the same time that makes it different.
One doesn't need new, never done before things/ideas to innovate - sometimes all that it takes is just putting the pieces in a different way.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
They innovated the aspect of fun into an mmorpg, instead of some useless gear grind to make people think they were special because they had better gear than the next guy.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
Afterthought - To those talking about invention and innovation, its po-ta-to po-tah-to thing. In my opinion the inventions are the games/genres themselves, the innovations are the brand new concepts some developers decide to take the time and effort come up with to make their game.
Then there are what you are all calling innovations, which is really just stealing someones idea and putting your wrapper on it. Some call it "Polishing" - This is more on the lines of what is happening, since games would be very odd if they didnt use anything from other games in their genres, Polishing is really the term for what you are all describing, not innovation.
Just my thoughts.
One more edit to clarify.
What you are ignoring is that sometimes using what exists in a different way is enough to make it different, innovative.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
People who say GW2 didn't innovate anything don't understand anything about game design.
Any moron can point to features in 10 different games and say "a better MMO would just use all these things and even make them better!" Heck, we have plenty of people on the forums like this.
It's a completely different beast to actually take those 10 different things, figure out a coherent goal for a game, make all the elements work together, improve several of them, and come out with a finished project that not only doesn't stink, but is good. Heck, making sure you don't pick different elements that aren't compatible with each other is a major issue.
Yeah, GW2 has elements of other games in it. You can trace it's ancestry. Tracing ancestry of an innovation doesn't mean it isn't an innovation. We can trace the ancestry of the telephone to the telegraph and other technologies for instance. That doesn't undercut the fact they managed to improve on many of those other elements, taking them beyond what came before, AND work them all into one game in a coherent way.
That's innovation, because it is a new thing they've made. You have to look at the whole. Now GW2 isn't the most innovative thing ever, but it is innovative.
Of course, the OP sets the bar for innovation so high that nothing that's ever been done is innovative by his standards.
People who say GW2 didn't innovate anything don't understand anything about game design.
Any moron can point to features in 10 different games and say "a better MMO would just use all these things and even make them better!" Heck, we have plenty of people on the forums like this.
It's a completely different beast to actually take those 10 different things, figure out a coherent goal for a game, make all the elements work together, improve several of them, and come out with a finished project that not only doesn't stink, but is good. Heck, making sure you don't pick different elements that aren't compatible with each other is a major issue.
Yeah, GW2 has elements of other games in it. You can trace it's ancestry. Tracing ancestry of an innovation doesn't mean it isn't an innovation. We can trace the ancestry of the telephone to the telegraph and other technologies for instance. That doesn't undercut the fact they managed to improve on many of those other elements, taking them beyond what came before, AND work them all into one game in a coherent way.
That's innovation. Now GW2 isn't the most innovative thing ever, but it is innovative.
no matter how u word it there is no innovation in GW2. it has ALL without EXCEPTIOn been done before..
Originally posted by Nadia GW2 improved on existing features found in different mmos -- and brought it into the same game but better
example:
autoscaling your level within the entire gameworld
past mmos only allowed for this in some situations -- but not all the time
most mmos borrow tho, WOW had nothing that didnt already exist in past games
Originally posted by colddog04
Forced level scaling? I don't think I've played an MMORPG with a system in place where the charater is leveled to the content. I think it works really well in this case.
Umm... it took PQs and bumped them up a notch (or three). I think that they improved on an already interesting concept for MMORPGs. I don't know if this is an innovation, but it's definitely an improvement over what we've seen before in my opinion.
I don't think I've ever seen a WvW system that is like theirs. Not that it's 3 faction PvP, but that the servers get ranked against each other and change every 2 weeks to promote balanced/difficult matches.
Hmm, what about guesting on servers? I suppose TSW has a similar system in place from what I read. But both games basically innovated that at the same time.
Maybe... the cross server auction house? I think TSW has this too. Both games made it happen around the same time.
I don't know, maybe there are other things. Those are the main things I can think of off hand. Innovation is kind of a terrible word to use since everyone seems to have their emotions attached to it for some reason. But there are definitely things in GW2 that would follow the strict definition of the word in my opinion.
Nadia, I never said to compair this game to WoW. Ever.
Second, Leveling the content in a game to the character has been in since TES:Oblivion and Id venture to say even games before that.
ColdDog - Never said the system had to be in an MMORPG, just any game, which forced level scaling has been in. (Oblivion, Skyrim)
WvW has been implemented on WO but it was called RvR - and No, adding one more W does not make it an innovation, it makes it a re-packaged feature that another game had to innovate.
WvsWvsW Existed in a no server scale but rather team scale in Guild Wars 1 Heroes Ascent in which 3 teams are fighting it out aswell so nope, it didn't came from WOW cause WoW never had such a feature in the first place and even copy their own battlegrounds from other games while borrowing the titles and fame from guild wars 1 after gw1 already had it.
As about innovation:
- no linear approach (Freedom of Choice so everyone can play the way they want)
- everything you do rewards you for your time and effort cause exploration, crafting, gathering, heart quests, DEs, Meta DEs, Dungeons, WvsWvsW, completing a areas vistas/POIs/Hearts/waypoints, sPVP gives you character XP and other rewards.
- underwater combat
- weapon skill system with traits and weapon or elements switch while in combat
- pet system for the rangers having all pets available at all times and being able to switch them on the fly
- crafting speed increasing to reduce the amount of time needed if you are crafting/refining lots of pieces
- being able to work as a team without the need to be in the same party and still getting rewarded for your contribution in a event or heart quest
- gathering nods availability and collectibles system that lets you send to your collectibles bank slots all materials, upgrade stones and mini pets in it no matter where you are in the world
- bank slots and collectibles slots availability not only from the bank itself but also through any crafting station
- no "holy trinity"
- being able to sPVP or WvsWvsW immediately after the tutorial (level 2)
- able to entirely level up through the pvp content (WvsWvsW) without the need to ever do PvE
- items transmutation system making it possible to apply a weapons or armors skin to a other one
There are a few more things but I need to stop typing for now.
People who say GW2 didn't innovate anything don't understand anything about game design.
Any moron can point to features in 10 different games and say "a better MMO would just use all these things and even make them better!" Heck, we have plenty of people on the forums like this.
It's a completely different beast to actually take those 10 different things, figure out a coherent goal for a game, make all the elements work together, improve several of them, and come out with a finished project that not only doesn't stink, but is good. Heck, making sure you don't pick different elements that aren't compatible with each other is a major issue.
Yeah, GW2 has elements of other games in it. You can trace it's ancestry. Tracing ancestry of an innovation doesn't mean it isn't an innovation. We can trace the ancestry of the telephone to the telegraph and other technologies for instance. That doesn't undercut the fact they managed to improve on many of those other elements, taking them beyond what came before, AND work them all into one game in a coherent way.
That's innovation. Now GW2 isn't the most innovative thing ever, but it is innovative.
no matter how u word it there is no innovation in GW2. it has ALL without EXCEPTIOn been done before..
Maybe you should read what I wrote and respond to that, rather than just writing some pithy line that doesn't indicate you gave what I said any thought.
And frankly, DEs on the scale and connectedness that GW2 has them have NOT been done before. They far more advanced than PQs or what Rifts had. And again, it is the sum of the parts that you judge something to be innovative. Otherwise you really don't have anything on the planet that is innovative.
Another thread where people name a dozen games and several genres to describe everything GW2 does and then proceed to say there is no innovation while choosing to ignore some aspects like depositing to the storage or receiving maill from everywhere.
Maybe if the threads stopped proclaiming all the things it innovates people wouldn't feel the need to argue ... but ofc it's the people who disagree's fault and not those who keep saying " it's a revolution " right ?
Seriously you walk into a bar and claim " Donald Duck was the first man on the moon " don't be surprised if people argue with you
People should just enjoy the damn game already and stop trying to worship the golden calf
MMO players scare me sometimes , their actions are borderline cultish
Sometimes the sum of all parts exceed the parts.
Just because many of the things GW2 have been done before in a way or another, the fact is that they either haven't been done just like GW2 does it and/or they haven't been done at the same time in the same game.
Being able to take a photo of the amazing place you are with your mobile and send it to another person as you talk to them expressing what you feel in the moment, will be a complete difference from talking and then show them the photo when you arrive to your hotel.
People try to simply look at the parts individually, when it is the way they all work together at the same time that makes it different.
One doesn't need new, never done before things/ideas to innovate - sometimes all that it takes is just putting the pieces in a different way.
While I can't say I disagree with you that wasn't really the tone of my post .. My point was I highly doubt the threads claiming the game isn't innovation came before those that did .( in regards to the person I quoted ).
So if you are going to claim that standpoint you can not be surprised or shocked or angry if people argue or disagree said claim .
Myself personally I don't see how it matters in the grand scheme of things .. It's just a game .. I will enjoy it or I won't , when I'm bored I will leave .. I have no emotional attachment to it or any game either good or bad .
I guess some people have the need to feel they are part of something special .. while to me it's nothing more than a game *shrugs*
Edit:
- no linear approach (Freedom of Choice so everyone can play the way they want)
- everything you do rewards you for your time and effort cause exploration, crafting, gathering, heart quests, DEs, Meta DEs, Dungeons, WvsWvsW, completing a areas vistas/POIs/Hearts/waypoints, sPVP gives you character XP and other rewards.
- underwater combat
Those things on their own are not innovation and have been done before .. As other's have said GW2 innovates by taking the mixed ingrediants from other places and baking them into one cake .Not by the list of ingrediants themselves
no matter how u word it there is no innovation in GW2. it has ALL without EXCEPTIOn been done before..
Maybe you should read what I wrote and respond to that, rather than just writing some pithy line that doesn't indicate you game what I said any though.
That's all she does in the GW2 forums. The stark amount of people... sorry I should say forumers... they are a very minor part of the global game community... who want this game to fail simply because its fanbase was excited is mindblowing.
Comments
I liked that part, very much. I mean Pong was for sure based on the accomplishments of the other console based games before it. And im sure that the other Genre defining games were simply built on accomplishments of previous creations as you said.
It just took everthing you love in a MMO and made it better ;D
oh and course they did beautifuly illustrated ,astetic art and enviroments that feels so alive ! XD
http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fYEQRAoY6alUmaO3ey3E+5Ex2jdqTey9woKtpdFwKA;TwAg0CnowxgjAHbNOck4siYMyGiJGA
What GW2 truly innovate have been discusssed alot here and other places. The absolute best answer is given in this topic
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/view/forums/thread/336987/The-Tao-of-Arenanet.html
that absolutly should have been a sticky topic in this forum when it was made.
that post had laid out very well, what actual is INNOVATIVE in GW2. READ IT
I say this to you and those who feel like you as respectfully as possible.
Please get out of the MMORPG genre. People like you have been ruining games in my genre of choice since EQ and probably even DAOC/UO but never played those long enough to know.
I actually dislike solo-rpgs and find that I cant get involved in the game enough because all I am doing is interacting with scripted events and scripted NPC chatter. That doesnt make me go and complain about SRPG's not having anyone around to play with, but what it does drive me to do is go out and find MMORPG's and realize that grouping up with real people around the world and sharing an amazing adventure in which we talk about our lives (RP or RL) and joke around is exactly what I was looking for.
Then somehow you, who actually likes soloing through games, and all your vocal friends come along and tell the developers of the games that I have now found and entrenched myself in, that you dont like how you cant play the game alone and they should cater to you. Well since youre so vocal and there are so many, they cave, and the genre loses.
In summation, Please stop wanting ANY MMORPG to be more solo friendly. Period.
Not everyone plays MMOs for the same reason you do. Just to name 3:
Living economies / markets
PvP instead of fighting scripts
Playing in a world that is constantly evolving and changing (both through continued development, and the actions of players)
None of those requires grouping or socializing
nothing really.. they have tried to improve some things that are common in themepark mmorpgs..
Another thread where people name a dozen games and several genres to describe everything GW2 does and then proceed to say there is no innovation while choosing to ignore some aspects like depositing to the storage or receiving maill from everywhere.
What single game does all the things GW2 does?
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
while (horse = dead):
beat horse
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
The only thing I can think of is that since playing pre-launch I have not spoken to any NPC to get a quest. I just go around exploring, fighting new mob or "grinding" to get crafting mats (mining, gathering, ...) and once in a while (frequently actually) i get a notification that something is happening. I go help with the mission/event, get massive XP then go back to exploring and getting crafting mats. When I do remember that there is a "story" i go to the main quest line, finishing one or two quests, then go back to exploration and gathering.
The above is the one thing that sets GW2 apart from other MMOs to me. The rest is just very polished.
How long can this keep me entertained? What happens when I will max out crafting, exploration and hit the level cap? To be seen....
Actually a living economy and markets do require socializing. That is until EQ introduced the Bazaar which allowed one to turn their character into a browsable merchant with a search feature built into the zone. (quite unfortunately IMHO, Luclin/PoP were the start of the decline of the entire genre if you ask me but thats a whole other discussion)
PvP, unless it is solely 1v1, requires socialization.
A world that constantly evolves through the actions of players should and would require socializing.
All of those require socialization to occur.
Edit
Afterthought - To those talking about invention and innovation, its po-ta-to po-tah-to thing. In my opinion the inventions are the games/genres themselves, the innovations are the brand new concepts some developers decide to take the time and effort come up with to make their game.
Then there are what you are all calling innovations, which is really just stealing someones idea and putting your wrapper on it. Some call it "Polishing" - This is more on the lines of what is happening, since games would be very odd if they didnt use anything from other games in their genres, Polishing is really the term for what you are all describing, not innovation.
Just my thoughts.
One more edit to clarify.
Now did anyone actual read the article i linked to earlier ? I give you Meowheads list of innovations in GW2 !
1. GW2 deliver an AAA MMO with a B2P model.
2. Remove the fight over resources in the PvE world.
3. Play with who you want, when you want, how you want. (sidekicking up is though removed now)
4. Mass PvP is better when it's bigger.
5. Have a relatively low power ceiling, then go for horizontal expansion.
6. MMO PvP can be done as an E-Sport.
7. It's not what you play with, it's who you play with.
8. The controls of an MMO with the abilities of a MOBA and the physical interactions of an FPS. With a pinch of Magic the Gathering.
9. Try and have the best soundtrack ever in an MMORPG
---
Maybe if the threads stopped proclaiming all the things it innovates people wouldn't feel the need to argue ... but ofc it's the people who disagree's fault and not those who keep saying " it's a revolution " right ?
Seriously you walk into a bar and claim " Donald Duck was the first man on the moon " don't be surprised if people argue with you
People should just enjoy the damn game already and stop trying to worship the golden calf
MMO players scare me sometimes , their actions are borderline cultish
To clarify on point 2: Resource nodes are "instanced" for each player. A mineral node may appear exhausted once you mined it, but other players can still mine from that very node you exhausted.
Questing Format... but its generally the same thing. A 'collective objective' quest over having several different quests.
Outside that, nothing much really.A game really doesn't need to innovate to be good. Look at Rift. despite what neighsayers go on about, it is highly successful for what its for and it didn't do anything to really 'change' the MMO market. Most innovation comes from lesser known games and often times importanted into a big name game which takes credit from an idea they took elsewhere.
Sometimes the sum of all parts exceed the parts.
Just because many of the things GW2 have been done before in a way or another, the fact is that they either haven't been done just like GW2 does it and/or they haven't been done at the same time in the same game.
Being able to take a photo of the amazing place you are with your mobile and send it to another person as you talk to them expressing what you feel in the moment, will be a complete difference from talking and then show them the photo when you arrive to your hotel.
People try to simply look at the parts individually, when it is the way they all work together at the same time that makes it different.
One doesn't need new, never done before things/ideas to innovate - sometimes all that it takes is just putting the pieces in a different way.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
They innovated the aspect of fun into an mmorpg, instead of some useless gear grind to make people think they were special because they had better gear than the next guy.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
What you are ignoring is that sometimes using what exists in a different way is enough to make it different, innovative.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
People who say GW2 didn't innovate anything don't understand anything about game design.
Any moron can point to features in 10 different games and say "a better MMO would just use all these things and even make them better!" Heck, we have plenty of people on the forums like this.
It's a completely different beast to actually take those 10 different things, figure out a coherent goal for a game, make all the elements work together, improve several of them, and come out with a finished project that not only doesn't stink, but is good. Heck, making sure you don't pick different elements that aren't compatible with each other is a major issue.
Yeah, GW2 has elements of other games in it. You can trace it's ancestry. Tracing ancestry of an innovation doesn't mean it isn't an innovation. We can trace the ancestry of the telephone to the telegraph and other technologies for instance. That doesn't undercut the fact they managed to improve on many of those other elements, taking them beyond what came before, AND work them all into one game in a coherent way.
That's innovation, because it is a new thing they've made. You have to look at the whole. Now GW2 isn't the most innovative thing ever, but it is innovative.
Of course, the OP sets the bar for innovation so high that nothing that's ever been done is innovative by his standards.
no matter how u word it there is no innovation in GW2. it has ALL without EXCEPTIOn been done before..
WvsWvsW Existed in a no server scale but rather team scale in Guild Wars 1 Heroes Ascent in which 3 teams are fighting it out aswell so nope, it didn't came from WOW cause WoW never had such a feature in the first place and even copy their own battlegrounds from other games while borrowing the titles and fame from guild wars 1 after gw1 already had it.
As about innovation:
- no linear approach (Freedom of Choice so everyone can play the way they want)
- everything you do rewards you for your time and effort cause exploration, crafting, gathering, heart quests, DEs, Meta DEs, Dungeons, WvsWvsW, completing a areas vistas/POIs/Hearts/waypoints, sPVP gives you character XP and other rewards.
- underwater combat
- weapon skill system with traits and weapon or elements switch while in combat
- pet system for the rangers having all pets available at all times and being able to switch them on the fly
- crafting speed increasing to reduce the amount of time needed if you are crafting/refining lots of pieces
- being able to work as a team without the need to be in the same party and still getting rewarded for your contribution in a event or heart quest
- gathering nods availability and collectibles system that lets you send to your collectibles bank slots all materials, upgrade stones and mini pets in it no matter where you are in the world
- bank slots and collectibles slots availability not only from the bank itself but also through any crafting station
- no "holy trinity"
- being able to sPVP or WvsWvsW immediately after the tutorial (level 2)
- able to entirely level up through the pvp content (WvsWvsW) without the need to ever do PvE
- items transmutation system making it possible to apply a weapons or armors skin to a other one
There are a few more things but I need to stop typing for now.
Maybe you should read what I wrote and respond to that, rather than just writing some pithy line that doesn't indicate you gave what I said any thought.
And frankly, DEs on the scale and connectedness that GW2 has them have NOT been done before. They far more advanced than PQs or what Rifts had. And again, it is the sum of the parts that you judge something to be innovative. Otherwise you really don't have anything on the planet that is innovative.
While I can't say I disagree with you that wasn't really the tone of my post .. My point was I highly doubt the threads claiming the game isn't innovation came before those that did .( in regards to the person I quoted ).
So if you are going to claim that standpoint you can not be surprised or shocked or angry if people argue or disagree said claim .
Myself personally I don't see how it matters in the grand scheme of things .. It's just a game .. I will enjoy it or I won't , when I'm bored I will leave .. I have no emotional attachment to it or any game either good or bad .
I guess some people have the need to feel they are part of something special .. while to me it's nothing more than a game *shrugs*
Edit:
- no linear approach (Freedom of Choice so everyone can play the way they want)
- everything you do rewards you for your time and effort cause exploration, crafting, gathering, heart quests, DEs, Meta DEs, Dungeons, WvsWvsW, completing a areas vistas/POIs/Hearts/waypoints, sPVP gives you character XP and other rewards.
- underwater combat
Those things on their own are not innovation and have been done before .. As other's have said GW2 innovates by taking the mixed ingrediants from other places and baking them into one cake .Not by the list of ingrediants themselves
That's all she does in the GW2 forums. The stark amount of people... sorry I should say forumers... they are a very minor part of the global game community... who want this game to fail simply because its fanbase was excited is mindblowing.