Supporting people doesn't give you progression during events :(

MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCMember UncommonPosts: 6,591

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/z3hpo/supporting_people_doesnt_give_you_progression_in/

 

Seem others have noticed this as well. The PvE events are nothing but a mindless DPS race to reach certain percentages of damage before boss goes down or npc dies, to get credit.

 

Doing things like Rezing, healing, buffing, shielding, cleaning ally during events, aka teamwork, doesn't give credit.

only raw dps is counted towards your contribution .

this is a flawed design, and specifically during events with large number of players.

because the way contribution works, you have to do a PERCENTAGE of RAW DAMAGE to get credit for the fight. But with more people attacking, each player has less chance to reach this dps goal.

 

And if you doing things like "Support Role" during the fight, it means less time you are doing raw DPS, which leads to lots of moments when you get low contribution for the event, and may get a BRONZE medal

or in many cases, YOU GET NO CREDIT AT ALL 

(MEANING, YOU GET NO EXP/NO KARMA/ NO CURRENCY AT ALL AT THE END OF THE EVENT WHILE PURE DPS PLAYERS ARE GETTING GOLD/SILVER/BRONZE MEDALS)

 

This seems to be an issue that many people are having, but nothing is being done about it.

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Comments

  • QuicklyScottQuicklyScott BristolMember Posts: 433

    When I played the beta, one of the main reasons I only DPSd and didn't risk trying to res people was due to that problem. I would say it's quite a big issue.  I  think a solution wouldn't be too hard to make though.

     

    You say nothing has been done about it; but, to be fair, it has only been out a few days, and the launch has been far from smooth.  I would think that is something they can look at in the coming weeks.

    image

  • fascismfascism marquette, MIMember UncommonPosts: 400
    Sad. Rift gives contribution for supporting.
  • fyerwallfyerwall Member UncommonPosts: 3,240
    Yeah, I gave up rezzing people because the second I rez someone the mob would pick me off and I would lay there dead, everyone just going about their business and not rezzing. Once the fight is over and everyone starts to leave only then would I get a rez. The whole "Nice Guys Finish Last" saying kinda fits well in this game.

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  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,836
    No doubt, the "perfect" game. image

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  • stratasaurusstratasaurus Seattle, WAMember Posts: 220
    Other major problem which I think is just as big is you can be there from the start of DE and contribute doing dps all the way till the mob gets to 1% but if you die you get no credit for the event.  I have spent a long time on an event and then died and had the event end before I could run back from the waypoint and gotten no credit.  Or even if you do get back in time to finish the event you will only get a bronze as all your earlier contribution is wiped out.
  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCMember UncommonPosts: 6,591
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    No doubt, the "perfect" game. image

    Not really. Support is part of Anet's trinity, and fun to play. Problem is, people don't get credit for helping with teamwork rather than raw dps on mobs which takes less skill IMO.anybody can sit there and just dps dps dps a mob. Doing support role is all about teamwork, and providing for your allies. 

    image

  • BeilochBeiloch Sun City, CAMember Posts: 74
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    No doubt, the "perfect" game. image

    Not really. Support is part of Anet's trinity, and fun to play. Problem is, people don't get credit for helping with teamwork rather than raw dps on mobs which takes less skill IMO.anybody can sit there and just dps dps dps a mob. Doing support role is all about teamwork, and providing for your allies. 

    Anyone can just DPS poorly. You think they have all those damage parsers in games because everyone can do it well? An entire facet of third party programs in existence just to repeatedly confirm we are all doing fine at DPS! Reminds me of Homer's "everything is okay" alarm.

    I'm surprised by this problem though. With how much emphasis ArenaNet, well rabid fanbois really, put on the idea there is no 'holy trinity' you'd think they would have no problem giving credit to people for just being in the general area casting 'something'

  • compoundcutcompoundcut Coeur d''alene, IDMember Posts: 8
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    No doubt, the "perfect" game. image

    Agreed.  Doing the right thing doesn't mean you will get credit for it Ponds.

  • redman875redman875 illinois, ILMember Posts: 230
    ...how can the greatest mmorpg ever made....
  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYMember RarePosts: 2,242

    [mod edit]

    In any case...as for the thread topic itself.  I think that definitely needs to be fixed. Healing/reviving and what not should be rewarded, too. I'm sure since Arenanet is (hopefully) aware, that they'll fix that. Just DPSing means no one will actually help each other, but just themselves. Personally, I'll keep healing/reviving, as well as DPSing. Its all fun.

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  • DeathengerDeathenger atco, NJMember UncommonPosts: 880
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/z3hpo/supporting_people_doesnt_give_you_progression_in/   Seem others have noticed this as well. The PvE events are nothing but a mindless DPS race to reach certain percentages of damage before boss goes down or npc dies, to get credit.   Doing things like Rezing, healing, buffing, shielding, cleaning ally during events, aka teamwork, doesn't give credit. only raw dps is counted towards your contribution . this is a flawed design, and specifically during events with large number of players. because the way contribution works, you have to do a PERCENTAGE of RAW DAMAGE to get credit for the fight. But with more people attacking, each player has less chance to reach this dps goal.   And if you doing things like "Support Role" during the fight, it means less time you are doing raw DPS, which leads to lots of moments when you get low contribution for the event, and may get a BRONZE medal or in many cases, YOU GET NO CREDIT AT ALL  (MEANING, YOU GET NO EXP/NO KARMA/ NO CURRENCY AT ALL AT THE END OF THE EVENT WHILE PURE DPS PLAYERS ARE GETTING GOLD/SILVER/BRONZE MEDALS)   This seems to be an issue that many people are having, but nothing is being done about it.

    When the OP discovered this one I'll guarantee he rubbed his hands together and made an evil villian laugh whilst posting that here.

     

    Anyway, hopefully they get cracking on fixing that. I believe you were suposed to get credit for support as well as DPS.

     
  • hikaru77hikaru77 buenos airesMember UncommonPosts: 1,054
    This need to be fixed, but dont gonna happen anytime soon. The PVE atm in gw2 is all about DPS as fast as u can to earn contribution points, and to be honest, is bored, i mean it feel like a SP RPG at some point, and even when u have support skills to do some real teamwork, is just useless so at the end everyone is spamming aoes and healing themselves. 
  • RidelynnRidelynn Fresno, CAMember EpicPosts: 6,070

    Well, I can't say with any certainty about Damage tripwires or anything, but I can think of plenty of events where I just had autoattack on my staff guardian while I ran around dropping heals and clearing conditions and rezzing, and I get mostly gold for events.

    Granted, these are lowish level (teens-low 20's), so maybe it changes up higher.

  • DrachasorDrachasor Columbus, OHMember Posts: 2,678

    It's possible that you do get credit, but the numbers need tweaking.  Rezzing in particular can take a LONG time so I could see how that might not work out very well in terms of participation points.

    I'll say that I haven't had a problem getting a gold when I've done a mix of support and attacks.  Of course, the vast majority of support abilities involving attacking the enemy.  If you only stuck with stuff that avoided that, then you probably shouldn't get full marks, imho.  That said, rezzing might be an issue (though I personally haven't had a problem if I rez 2-3 people).

  • daniel!!!daniel!!! nottinghamMember Posts: 400
    but without the support sometimes events become harder, i agree DPS is for getting the rewards, which is sad, but sometimes without the extra support offered (even if sometimes it is tiny) it helps move a DE along

    image

  • Loke666Loke666 KalmarMember EpicPosts: 20,997

    It give you some reward but not enough, that is true.

    It is a balance issue that needs to be fixed. There are others like that as well but the game is just out so I hope they fix this.

  • DrachasorDrachasor Columbus, OHMember Posts: 2,678
    Originally posted by MMOExposed And if you doing things like "Support Role" during the fight, it means less time you are doing raw DPS, which leads to lots of moments when you get low contribution for the event, and may get a BRONZE medal or in many cases, YOU GET NO CREDIT AT ALL  (MEANING, YOU GET NO EXP/NO KARMA/ NO CURRENCY AT ALL AT THE END OF THE EVENT WHILE PURE DPS PLAYERS ARE GETTING GOLD/SILVER/BRONZE MEDALS)   This seems to be an issue that many people are having, but nothing is being done about it.

    Consider that if you do a little more than look at a monster the wrong way in an event, you'll get a bronze medal, I have to say people that get no credit have to be almost trying to avoid getting credit.  If you are only losing a couple abilities on a 10-20 second cooldown or more, then yeah, I can see how that might lead to no credit.  Frankly, at that point you don't deserve any -- in many ways it is perhaps too easy to get a bronze.

    I think you're overstating the significance of the problem.  I haven't experienced anything like this and I've done support.  Of course, doing support still means doing damage, because the pure-support stuff isn't enough to keep you remotely busy during a fight.

  • AeliousAelious OregonMember RarePosts: 3,482
    Originally posted by stratasaurus
    Other major problem which I think is just as big is you can be there from the start of DE and contribute doing dps all the way till the mob gets to 1% but if you die you get no credit for the event.  I have spent a long time on an event and then died and had the event end before I could run back from the waypoint and gotten no credit.  Or even if you do get back in time to finish the event you will only get a bronze as all your earlier contribution is wiped out.

     Maybe the event wasn't successful or it bugged out.  I have started a DE seen there were a lot of people and started to head to a town.  I had a silver medal show up a few minutes later.

  • Loke666Loke666 KalmarMember EpicPosts: 20,997
    Originally posted by TheScavenger
    [mod edit] In any case...as for the thread topic itself.  I think that definitely needs to be fixed. Healing/reviving and what not should be rewarded, too. I'm sure since Arenanet is (hopefully) aware, that they'll fix that. Just DPSing means no one will actually help each other, but just themselves. Personally, I'll keep healing/reviving, as well as DPSing. Its all fun.

    I dunno, to me this is a regular launch issue that needs fixing, not anything else.

    The game is just out and stuff like this are cound to show up and should be balanced, nothing else. And that is not hating or trolling. Now as a thief I usually do enough DPS for gold even if I do rezz a few players (which at times is the only way to succeed the event, I use a AoE stealth to do it) but buffing is also important and should be rewarded accordingly.

    But this is not a sign that the game sucks, just a simple balancing issue that needs to be fixed, and it is not that hard to fix either.

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCMember UncommonPosts: 6,591
    Originally posted by Drachasor
    Originally posted by MMOExposed And if you doing things like "Support Role" during the fight, it means less time you are doing raw DPS, which leads to lots of moments when you get low contribution for the event, and may get a BRONZE medal or in many cases, YOU GET NO CREDIT AT ALL  (MEANING, YOU GET NO EXP/NO KARMA/ NO CURRENCY AT ALL AT THE END OF THE EVENT WHILE PURE DPS PLAYERS ARE GETTING GOLD/SILVER/BRONZE MEDALS)   This seems to be an issue that many people are having, but nothing is being done about it.

    Consider that if you do a little more than look at a monster the wrong way in an event, you'll get a bronze medal, I have to say people that get no credit have to be almost trying to avoid getting credit.  If you are only losing a couple abilities on a 10-20 second cooldown or more, then yeah, I can see how that might lead to no credit.  Frankly, at that point you don't deserve any -- in many ways it is perhaps too easy to get a bronze.

    I think you're overstating the significance of the problem.  I haven't experienced anything like this and I've done support.  Of course, doing support still means doing damage, because the pure-support stuff isn't enough to keep you remotely busy during a fight.

    Well you are wrong. Anet stated in beta that credit is given to players that do a percentage of damage to the mob. Not just attacked t mob a few times.

     

    So if you have an event with over 20 people, to kill a champion,  and they need to do at least 5% total damage to get bronze, then a maximum of 20 people will get credit. 

    But let's say somebody were to do 6% total damage, than that means somebody else only did 4% total damage, and won't get a reward at all. Look it up. Many people are having this issue right now.

    image

  • TardcoreTardcore MinskMember Posts: 2,325
    I'm hearing my house mates bitching about this issue as well. I have to ask, that if this really is a big deal how come we never heard anyone mention it during beta?

    image

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  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAMember UncommonPosts: 4,775
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/z3hpo/supporting_people_doesnt_give_you_progression_in/   Seem others have noticed this as well. The PvE events are nothing but a mindless DPS race to reach certain percentages of damage before boss goes down or npc dies, to get credit.   Doing things like Rezing, healing, buffing, shielding, cleaning ally during events, aka teamwork, doesn't give credit. only raw dps is counted towards your contribution . this is a flawed design, and specifically during events with large number of players. because the way contribution works, you have to do a PERCENTAGE of RAW DAMAGE to get credit for the fight. But with more people attacking, each player has less chance to reach this dps goal.   And if you doing things like "Support Role" during the fight, it means less time you are doing raw DPS, which leads to lots of moments when you get low contribution for the event, and may get a BRONZE medal or in many cases, YOU GET NO CREDIT AT ALL  (MEANING, YOU GET NO EXP/NO KARMA/ NO CURRENCY AT ALL AT THE END OF THE EVENT WHILE PURE DPS PLAYERS ARE GETTING GOLD/SILVER/BRONZE MEDALS)   This seems to be an issue that many people are having, but nothing is being done about it.

    3 events today on my Engineer I didn't kill a single mob, didn't attack a single mob. All I did was throw out elixers, healing packs and drop healing turrets as well as rezzed people to test this.

    I got gold in all 3 DE's... 

  • DrachasorDrachasor Columbus, OHMember Posts: 2,678
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    Originally posted by Drachasor
    Originally posted by MMOExposed And if you doing things like "Support Role" during the fight, it means less time you are doing raw DPS, which leads to lots of moments when you get low contribution for the event, and may get a BRONZE medal or in many cases, YOU GET NO CREDIT AT ALL  (MEANING, YOU GET NO EXP/NO KARMA/ NO CURRENCY AT ALL AT THE END OF THE EVENT WHILE PURE DPS PLAYERS ARE GETTING GOLD/SILVER/BRONZE MEDALS)   This seems to be an issue that many people are having, but nothing is being done about it.

    Consider that if you do a little more than look at a monster the wrong way in an event, you'll get a bronze medal, I have to say people that get no credit have to be almost trying to avoid getting credit.  If you are only losing a couple abilities on a 10-20 second cooldown or more, then yeah, I can see how that might lead to no credit.  Frankly, at that point you don't deserve any -- in many ways it is perhaps too easy to get a bronze.

    I think you're overstating the significance of the problem.  I haven't experienced anything like this and I've done support.  Of course, doing support still means doing damage, because the pure-support stuff isn't enough to keep you remotely busy during a fight.

    Well you are wrong. Anet stated in beta that credit is given to players that do a percentage of damage to the mob. Not just attacked t mob a few times.

     

    So if you have an event with over 20 people, to kill a champion,  and they need to do at least 5% total damage to get bronze, then a maximum of 20 people will get credit. 

    But let's say somebody were to do 6% total damage, than that means somebody else only did 4% total damage, and won't get a reward at all. Look it up. Many people are having this issue right now.

    Except getting credit is a lot easier than that.  If you have 20 people, it might be more like you need to do 2% of the total damage...because yeah, it isn't that hard to get a gold.  And I've gotten bronze rewards haflway across the map when I have only attacked something a few times running through an area while busy doing something else -- basic credit is very easy to get.

    Do you have a link to where Anet said that participation was only about damage?  Because I don't recall that ever being said.  I checked the wiki, tried a quick internet search...nothing.  To me that sounds like it could just be one of those rumors that becomes a "fact" over time as people repeat it.

    When you talk about people doing support not doing any damage at all, I have to seriously question whether they deserve any credit.  You can't do significant support without doing damage.  If you stick to things that don't damage, then you are crippling your performance.  I can see how someone used to healers in games like WoW might try to do that, and so they get crappy credit.  On the other hand, that's a poor way to play the game so they should get crappy credit.  This wouldn't distinguish how credit is awarded, btw, since sticking to such abilities means that you aren't participating much at all.

  • DrachasorDrachasor Columbus, OHMember Posts: 2,678
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/z3hpo/supporting_people_doesnt_give_you_progression_in/   Seem others have noticed this as well. The PvE events are nothing but a mindless DPS race to reach certain percentages of damage before boss goes down or npc dies, to get credit.   Doing things like Rezing, healing, buffing, shielding, cleaning ally during events, aka teamwork, doesn't give credit. only raw dps is counted towards your contribution . this is a flawed design, and specifically during events with large number of players. because the way contribution works, you have to do a PERCENTAGE of RAW DAMAGE to get credit for the fight. But with more people attacking, each player has less chance to reach this dps goal.   And if you doing things like "Support Role" during the fight, it means less time you are doing raw DPS, which leads to lots of moments when you get low contribution for the event, and may get a BRONZE medal or in many cases, YOU GET NO CREDIT AT ALL  (MEANING, YOU GET NO EXP/NO KARMA/ NO CURRENCY AT ALL AT THE END OF THE EVENT WHILE PURE DPS PLAYERS ARE GETTING GOLD/SILVER/BRONZE MEDALS)   This seems to be an issue that many people are having, but nothing is being done about it.

    3 events today on my Engineer I didn't kill a single mob, didn't attack a single mob. All I did was throw out elixers, healing packs and drop healing turrets as well as rezzed people to test this.

    I got gold in all 3 DE's... 

    I'm actually rather surprised you managed that, given that it is rather hard to keep busy if you stick to non-attacks....the game just doesn't provide many options for that.  Fascinating.

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAMember UncommonPosts: 4,775
    Originally posted by Drachasor
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/z3hpo/supporting_people_doesnt_give_you_progression_in/   Seem others have noticed this as well. The PvE events are nothing but a mindless DPS race to reach certain percentages of damage before boss goes down or npc dies, to get credit.   Doing things like Rezing, healing, buffing, shielding, cleaning ally during events, aka teamwork, doesn't give credit. only raw dps is counted towards your contribution . this is a flawed design, and specifically during events with large number of players. because the way contribution works, you have to do a PERCENTAGE of RAW DAMAGE to get credit for the fight. But with more people attacking, each player has less chance to reach this dps goal.   And if you doing things like "Support Role" during the fight, it means less time you are doing raw DPS, which leads to lots of moments when you get low contribution for the event, and may get a BRONZE medal or in many cases, YOU GET NO CREDIT AT ALL  (MEANING, YOU GET NO EXP/NO KARMA/ NO CURRENCY AT ALL AT THE END OF THE EVENT WHILE PURE DPS PLAYERS ARE GETTING GOLD/SILVER/BRONZE MEDALS)   This seems to be an issue that many people are having, but nothing is being done about it.

    3 events today on my Engineer I didn't kill a single mob, didn't attack a single mob. All I did was throw out elixers, healing packs and drop healing turrets as well as rezzed people to test this.

    I got gold in all 3 DE's... 

    I'm actually rather surprised you managed that, given that it is rather hard to keep busy if you stick to non-attacks....the game just doesn't provide many options for that.  Fascinating.

    Engineer has a ton of non attack stuff lol. Healing Kit turns your whole ability bar into nothing but healing packs and elixers and the cool downs are short. Healing turret does it's thing on it's own. I'm going to try rezzing only later because I think I recall an event from a few days ago where all I did was rez and got nada so I'm thinking rezzing doesn't give you squat. 

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