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So if you don't like GW2; where are the good arguements?

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  • MMOwandererMMOwanderer Member Posts: 415
    Originally posted by Angier2758
    Originally posted by kol56
    Originally posted by Angier2758

     But what makes it meaningful then?  Full loot FFA  ??  I admit if I were making the game I'd have done it with different races and different classes for each side (which doesn't work with their system, but still).

    Meaningfull lore or story connections. Controlling territory. Affecting the economy. Reserving huge rewards of whatever type. Well, atleast to me.

    Right now, the only reward i know of is a PVE general buff. Hell, TSW already as that. OP, i can't talk about the released game, but from my experience in beta, i don't "hate" the game at all, but i just didn't find anything amazing about it.

    Here's my general impressions of WVW: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/361986/page/1

    For example, i find the RP/fluff items, the crafting, the personall story, GFX, to be mediocre from what i saw, amongst other stuff. They don't suck, but aren't good either.

    Like i said, i don't think there's anything necessarily bad or negative or horrible about the game, just many mediocre features, and many, like combat, DE, art style, character creation, etc, to be good. Expect maybe the large scale of hub cities and bosses lie Shadow Behemoth.

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Member UncommonPosts: 2,759
    Originally posted by kol56
    Originally posted by Angier2758
    Originally posted by kol56
    Originally posted by Angier2758

    3)  What's the point of pvp?  to kill people....you got gear, ranks? bonuses for your server?  When WoW came out people killed people for the sheer fun of pvp.... no xp loss they just had to run back. 

    It's just themepark PVP, meaningless and shallow, it's still better than almost everything released in the last 8 years.

    It's like a COD match, they are fun for a while.... but i don't think i could be able to play it for years without geting bored.

    Years? weeks.

     But what makes it meaningful then?  Full loot FFA  ??  I admit if I were making the game I'd have done it with different races and different classes for each side (which doesn't work with their system, but still).

    Well, things like player player built castles with sieges, maybe even town building.

    Open world PVP, that means PVE progression with PVP on the mix, no, having 1 or 2 open world bosses on the WwW with no real rewards doesn't count.

    Guild VS Guild drama PVP, having real enemies, not just players from different servers.

    Politics, Alliances, etc.

    In my opinion, GW2 removed the best things about DAoC's PVP while making it more accessible. And when you do that, you remove longterm appeal

    And this isn't a Sandbox vs Themepark kind of thing, Lineage 2 was a themepark and the PVP had more depth than GW2.

    But this is all an opinion and just that, it will be better for some people and worse for others.

    Well technically, if you really want  PvP mixed inw ith your PvE, theres actually mobs spread out all ove rthe maps in WvW, and they often get drawn into the mix of battles too. Taking over a lot of the objectives also requires PvE, taking out all the guards, taking out the resources and their escorts, etc. You could jump into WvW and do that and be at risk of being attacked by other players while leveling, getting loot, making money. Theres also resource nodes all ove rthe map too if you want to go do some risky resource gathering.

    The option is there if you choose it. Thats one of the great things about the game. Lots of diffeent things to do for people who like different ways of playing, and all of them = progress.

    As for the guild vs guild, politics, etc. Thats only been done in a small portion of games, and done well in much fewer. Majority of popular PvP games are faction based, and as such you usually have no communication with the other side, and your enot fighting against the guilds you can communicate with. But if you want GvG action / rivalries, the battleground style pvp lets you fight people on your server so your guilds can battle it out there. Also in WvW, you do see guild names, just not individual names. So you can still get a bit of rivalry going each time youre in rotation vs that server. Its not like theres 100 servers and youll rarely get to fight them. Chances are any rivals you have from other servers are going to be 1 of the 2 servers youre fighting against sometime in the rotation every month or 2.

  • Angier2758Angier2758 Member UncommonPosts: 1,026
    Originally posted by kol56
    Originally posted by Angier2758
    Originally posted by kol56
    Originally posted by Angier2758

    3)  What's the point of pvp?  to kill people....you got gear, ranks? bonuses for your server?  When WoW came out people killed people for the sheer fun of pvp.... no xp loss they just had to run back. 

    It's just themepark PVP, meaningless and shallow, it's still better than almost everything released in the last 8 years.

    It's like a COD match, they are fun for a while.... but i don't think i could be able to play it for years without geting bored.

    Years? weeks.

     But what makes it meaningful then?  Full loot FFA  ??  I admit if I were making the game I'd have done it with different races and different classes for each side (which doesn't work with their system, but still).

    Well, things like player player built castles with sieges, maybe even town building.

    Open world PVP, that means PVE progression with PVP on the mix, no, having 1 or 2 open world bosses on the WwW with no real rewards doesn't count.

    Guild VS Guild drama PVP, having real enemies, not just players from different servers.

    Politics, Alliances, etc.

    In my opinion, GW2 removed the best things about DAoC's PVP while making it more accessible. And when you do that, you remove longterm appeal

    And this isn't a Sandbox vs Themepark kind of thing, Lineage 2 was a themepark and the PVP had more depth than GW2.

    But this is all an opinion and just that, it will be better for some people and worse for others.

     This is an honest arguement. Kudos.

    They do have pvp ranks and pvp gear so there is some progression... they could easily add alliances and switch the eternal wvw area into player owned/built keeps.  Maybe add temporary feuds etc.

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Member UncommonPosts: 2,759
    Originally posted by Boardwalker
    Originally posted by kol56

    It's just themepark PVP, meaningless and shallow, it's still better than almost everything released in the last 8 years.

    It's like a COD match, they are fun for a while.... but i don't think i could be able to play it for years without geting bored.

    Years? weeks.

    This ^. An MMO without PvP without progression is just an FPS shooter. And that's not a knock on FPS shooters.

     

    Progression n an MMO is a key part of what makes an MMO compelling. Can you imagine if they took progression out of pve? For example, you sign up for a dungeon and automaticallly receive all the gear that you need before you begin. Nothing that you can get in the dungeon will be better than what you already have. After you complete it the first few times just for the sake of doing it, what's the point?

     

    If you're not improving your character in a repeated activity, you'll eventually stop doing it in favor of something that actually improves your character.

     

    I like fighting for the sake of fighting as much as anyone, but not having pvp progression in an MMO it just seems out of place.

    Youre only given gear in the instanced PvP. In WvW, you have the same gear as in PVE. You can get much better gear through earning karma and badges in WvW. When I say much better, thats relative to GW2 gear scaling. Your not going to see massive jumps in gear like you do in many othe rgames like WAR and WoW, but they definitely give you an edge. Progression is there, its just not like many other games, like WoW, where its OMG your gearscore sucks you have absolutely no chance of being useful to our group.

    Also similar to the gear, youre only given every skill and max Trait Points in the instanced PvP. Once again in WvW, you have the same skills and Traits as in PvE. A level 1 going into WvW only has their weapon skils + 1 heal, no Utility or Elite skills at all, and no trait points. Someone who progresses to 80 can unlock most, if not every Utility and Elite Skill, but also has 70 points to spend in Traits. Traits make a big difference too. For example a thif can spend 30 points in their 2nd line of traits giving them a much higher % to crit (300 more Precision), as well as a 30% increase to crit damage. Then within each trait line you also get 3 static, and 3 of your choosing, buffs/procs. Things like increased durations of effects, increased damage with X weapon, increasd buff durations, extra effects added to certain categories of skills, increased max initiative for thief, increased Initiatve regen, for thief, etc.

    As you can see there is way more progression than people like to give it credit for. But lower level players do still have some chance against you if they play well enough. Its not absolutely pointless to try to go into fights without all of that stuff, you just wont perform as well.

  • AmjocoAmjoco Member UncommonPosts: 4,860

    It just seems like this website would be full of cool nerdy gameplayers hyping each other up about each game that comes out. Instead, it always seems to turn to childish sarcastic remarks, to see if we can get other people pissed. It makes no sense. /shrug

     

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

This discussion has been closed.