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Reaching the cap

QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common

One person has already reached the max-level in GW2 during the 3-day head-start. Granted he skipped through everything he could, undoubtedly exploited whatever he could, and crafted the last 20 levels or so with the help of is friends (they gathered all the mats), how does this make you feel?

Is the lenght of time you have to spend to reach the cap important and why?

How do you feel about games where the cap is practically unreachable (Eve)?

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

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Comments

  • vee41vee41 TamperePosts: 191Member

    Levels are just one form of progression. GW2 has many more. Check one of my older blogposts for random ramblings of this :)

    Levels are generally the most noticeable way of progress so they tend to be put on pedestal but they really do not mean that much in GW2 context as even casual players can hit the cap in few weeks.

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member

    Why should what other people doing concern me?

    'I am first to 80!'

    'meh, whatever dude'

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,635Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    One person has already reached the max-level in GW2 during the 3-day head-start. Granted he skipped through everything he could, undoubtedly exploited whatever he could, and crafted the last 20 levels or so with the help of is friends (they gathered all the mats), how does this make you feel?

     

    That people are free to enjoy a game in the way they want to really. Some folks love this challange and see it as a personal goal. Most of them once they have it then settle into the game with a new alt and play properly. It's all good.

    It dosen't effect me at all that he has an 80.

    Played 'properly' GW2 has a ton of content for a new launch MMORPG.

     

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,966Member Uncommon

    I have to say, how a "power gamer" manages to level up to max in a day or two isn't really of concern to me, I'm more interested in how long a more average player (like myself) would take.

    When playing TSW, I put roughly 6-7 weeks into the game was only about 1/2 through Egypt at the time.  Sure, some folks probably reached the end in the first 3 days, but that was of no interest, I want to know that I will have about 2-3 months of play time before reaching "end game"

    Even then though, I don't want the power progression to stop, and I prefer there to be alternatives to power progression other than gear grinding, a la DAOC's realm point abilities preferably.

    In fact, it's this one thing that really turns me off on playing GW2, I don't do random acts in MMO's, I don't play them for "fun", the fun in them is never ending power progression.

    Even though some folks hold up EVE as a lateral system, don't kid yourself, more options in EVE definitely translates into more power, in terms of how much money you can earn, resources you can control, or size of ships you can fly.  (Sorry, faction fitted Tengu's are just much more kick-arse than a basic Rifter)

    As Vee41 said in his blog, GW2 focuses more on 3 other areas of progression in a different balance, with far less emphasis on power progression. In fact, so much so I wouldn't really classify GW2 as a traditional MMORPG (I feel power progression is a definining characteristic of the genre as it was first unveiled) and I call it more of a MMOARPG (action) style game.

    But back to the OP, no, it's fine if someone can blow it out to level 80 or whatever, and I really do prefer games like EVE where the progression really never ends, and in fact, just resubbed to EVE once again for round 3 just this weekend. (sort of my silent protest against GW2) image

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • bobfishbobfish SouthamptonPosts: 1,688Member
    Being 80 means nothing in GW2, PvP progression is seperate and you get down levelled for zones, so... pointless.
  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon

    As it's related to GW2 specifically, I couldn't care less as I do not plan on playing it in the forseeable future.

    In general, I prefer RPG's to last a long time.  For quick action I rather play arcade style games or sports games.

    I have no problem playing an RPG where the max level is practically unreachable.  When I get bored I'll leave.  If I continue to find the game fun for years it's good to know there's still more to accomplish.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • RebelScum99RebelScum99 Mesa, AZPosts: 1,090Member

    I can't believe I'm going to defend GW2 in this case, but....I wouldn't think it to be that big of a deal in this game.  Yeah, it seems  reaching level cap in two days is a bit extreme, and judging from some of the levels many have reached in this game already, it does seem that the levelling pace may be a bit fast.  However, unless I'm mistaken, the game isn't designed for it to really be that advantageous for people to level quickly.  

    In fact, the only true advantage I can see from levelling so fast in this game is that it allows more content, or more of the world map, to open up to you quicker.  Aside from that, you really aren't helping yourself that much by hitting max level so quickly.  And GW2 seems to be the type of game where everyone is on a level playing field at all times, whether getting boosted in PvP or getting downgraded from adventuring in lower zones.  Therefore, it would seem to me that you would miss a ton of initial content by speeding your way through the levels rather than exploring and enjoying the journey.  

    Just my two cents.

  • PrenhoPrenho AracajuPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by dave6660

    As it's related to GW2 specifically, I couldn't care less as I do not plan on playing it in the forseeable future.

    In general, I prefer RPG's to last a long time.  For quick action I rather play arcade style games or sports games.

    I have no problem playing an RPG where the max level is practically unreachable.  When I get bored I'll leave.  If I continue to find the game fun for years it's good to know there's still more to accomplish.

    Agree, games like this usually are busted and forgotten after one month(look at SWTOR and TSW). I want a non-carebear game where I can spend at least 4-5 years of a long journey, epic pvps and drama. This game probably will be Lineage Eternal.

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by Prenho
    Originally posted by dave6660
     

    Agree, games like this usually are busted and forgotten after one month(look at SWTOR and TSW). I want a non-carebear game where I can spend at least 4-5 years of a long journey, epic pvps and drama. This game probably will be Lineage Eternal.

    You know you are setting yourself up for a disapointment whenever a new game releases, right? That goal is impossible to achieve.

    I don't even think such longterm games are good for the industry. But that is a topic for another thread.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • PrenhoPrenho AracajuPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by Prenho
    Originally posted by dave6660
     

    Agree, games like this usually are busted and forgotten after one month(look at SWTOR and TSW). I want a non-carebear game where I can spend at least 4-5 years of a long journey, epic pvps and drama. This game probably will be Lineage Eternal.

    You know you are setting yourself up for a disapointment whenever a new game releases, right? That goal is impossible to achieve.

    I don't even think such longterm games are good for the industry. But that is a topic for another thread.

    Why not? I played Lineage 1 for almost 10 years(it still is the 3rd most played MMo in Korea, 14 years old game).

     

    EDIT: I played WoW(3 years ago) and got bored after 2 months...(I don't know how there are people playing this for years), I reached the level cap in less than month, and the only thing to do after this are boring instances over and over, or arenas with meaningless pvp over and over...

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by Prenho
    Originally posted by dave6660
     

    Agree, games like this usually are busted and forgotten after one month(look at SWTOR and TSW). I want a non-carebear game where I can spend at least 4-5 years of a long journey, epic pvps and drama. This game probably will be Lineage Eternal.

    You know you are setting yourself up for a disapointment whenever a new game releases, right? That goal is impossible to achieve.

    I don't even think such longterm games are good for the industry. But that is a topic for another thread.

    What exactly is "impossible to achieve"?  Many players have stayed with one game for 4-5 years.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 , CAPosts: 2,439Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by Prenho
    Originally posted by dave6660
     

    Agree, games like this usually are busted and forgotten after one month(look at SWTOR and TSW). I want a non-carebear game where I can spend at least 4-5 years of a long journey, epic pvps and drama. This game probably will be Lineage Eternal.

    You know you are setting yourself up for a disapointment whenever a new game releases, right? That goal is impossible to achieve.

    I don't even think such longterm games are good for the industry. But that is a topic for another thread.

    What is your point then? Reaching cap in a the short term is good for an MMO? You brought up the question.

    EVE, the amount of progression which doesn't end. It has proven to not only work well but hasn't harmed the industry at all, it has improved it with more diversity.

     

    Reaching cap in longer than a month of playing is important to me. Why does progression have to be over so soon? I didn't buy it with the intent to quit and buy the next game shortly afterwards.

     

    What is so bad with an MMO that is intended to LAST?

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    One person has already reached the max-level in GW2 during the 3-day head-start. Granted he skipped through everything he could, undoubtedly exploited whatever he could, and crafted the last 20 levels or so with the help of is friends (they gathered all the mats), how does this make you feel?

    Is the lenght of time you have to spend to reach the cap important and why?

    How do you feel about games where the cap is practically unreachable (Eve)?

    Not relevant to ME. I have a life and i don't play night and day. So what if some other person has no life and lives a game?

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by mmoguy43
    Originally posted by Quirhid
     

    What is your point then? Reaching cap in a the short term is good for an MMO? You brought up the question.

    EVE, the amount of progression which doesn't end. It has proven to not only work well but hasn't harmed the industry at all, it has improved it with more diversity.

     

    Reaching cap in longer than a month of playing is important to me. Why does progression have to be over so soon? I didn't buy it with the intent to quit and buy the next game shortly afterwards.

     

    What is so bad with an MMO that is intended to LAST?

    My point is you cannot offer a "journey" lasting 4-5 years for everyone, it is impossible. Some people are slower than others. Some people tire more easily. I doubt those who spend 4-5 years in one game are the norm. Infact I think they are a minority.

     

    I think a shorter lifespan is good for games. Ideally, I'd be satisfied if the genre would be renewed every 2-3 years across the board. That would mean that entirely new titles would reign 3 years from now. Past ones shrivel or die.

    In the case of Eve, I think Eve 2.0 is long overdue. Its good to wipe the slate clean from time to time. I don't take a stance on exactly how long MMO should last, tho.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by mmoguy43

    What is so bad with an MMO that is intended to LAST?

    Nothing last forever. Content costs money to make.

    To make things last longer, players are asked to repeat content. So it really depends on your tolerance of repetition.

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by mmoguy43

    What is so bad with an MMO that is intended to LAST?

    Nothing last forever. Content costs money to make.

    To make things last longer, players are asked to repeat content. So it really depends on your tolerance of repetition.

    Nobody asked for a game to last forever.

    Nothing is wrong with repeating content as long as it stays interesting.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • BanquettoBanquetto CityPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon
    I think an (effectively) endless progression like EVE is a lot easier to swallow than a finite but extremely long progression like the 3-5 year one mentioned.

    Especially since 3-5 years for a hardcore gamer = 30-50 years for a casual. :-)
  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 , CAPosts: 2,439Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Banquetto
    I think an (effectively) endless progression like EVE is a lot easier to swallow than a finite but extremely long progression like the 3-5 year one mentioned.

    Especially since 3-5 years for a hardcore gamer = 30-50 years for a casual. :-)

    Good point. If there is an end everyone will want to reach it eventually. Casuals may never be capable of reaching it and end up being unsatisfied. With no real end to progression you can simply keep going as long as you want.

    But also, something like EVEs passive progression or even smaller difference in power gained from progression could be a way to have hardcore and casuals co-exist and play on somewhat equal ground.

    I think 3-5 years is a good goal for an MMO as in lastability and 1-3 years time to progress to cap if it is going to be finite.

     

    What doesn't make sense is MMOs with 1-2 weeks of progression that expect to last 5 years by having 1 week of gameplay expansions about every year. The expection of keeping players busy with raiding, PvP battlegrounds, and rolling alts doesn't fly with the majority.

     

  • ajayazirajayazir RC, BCPosts: 108Member
    MisterSlin is at 88% world completion, compared to the lvling in this game I think world completion is pretty impressive.
  • rissiesrissies aurora, COPosts: 161Member
    That high world completion -is- pretty impressive, but I imagine they're missing a lot along the way. I'm less concerned about the firsties and benchmarks than about the people who rush to eighty and then complain about getting there too quickly.
  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    It's important to me since a high level player usually (and I stress usually) knows the ins and outs of the game and is often someone who is more knowledgeable about the game, which comes in handy when you need help / guidance. If a level doesn't reflect experience anymore (as in that person in GW2) you can no longer identify people through it.
  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ajayazir
    MisterSlin is at 88% world completion, compared to the lvling in this game I think world completion is pretty impressive.

    So in GW2 terms does that mean he didn't just grind to max level as fast as he could but actually completed the content too?

    If so, I guess that means fans get a little over 72 hours of gameplay before they start looking for "the next big thing".

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,255Member Uncommon

    Why do THEMEPARK MMO need levels in the first place. Look at Darkfall. It's very THEMEPARK like, but with full open world and no levels. 

    Gives the game a different feel than avg THEMEPARK MMO.

    image

  • Muerte_XMuerte_X ventura, CAPosts: 104Member
    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Why do THEMEPARK MMO need levels in the first place. Look at Darkfall. It's very THEMEPARK like, but with full open world and no levels. 

    Gives the game a different feel than avg THEMEPARK MMO.

    They don't. Not that I played it, but TSW is a themepark with no levels... but it's 'gated' by skills/gear (from what I hear). Although I have also heard 'the rails are strong with that one' so the open world part is questionable.

     

    Edit: In response to the OP... I don't know. I haven't been playing a ton of hours, but if I'm capped and done in a month, I will be dissapointed. I know there will be stuff to go back to, altidis, and Pvp, but searching for the last tidbits of exploration does not sound apealling to me. If this guy just rushed to cap through crafting as I have heard, well that doesn't sound fun at all. So long as my experience is not so shortlived, I will be happy.

    Often lurking, rarely posting

  • AkulasAkulas GoldcoastPosts: 1,615Member Uncommon
    There should be a very high amount of levels so there is always something to aim for but if I'm right your total xp keeps going up anyways so there is always something once you done all the achievments and leveled up.

    This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

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