Originally posted by mad-hatter Guild Wars is not a PVE game, they don't intend you to slowly level your way in a huge grind, the name of the game is PVP good sir, just like GW1, maybe you should have read a bit about it before you purchased it.
Wow didn't know this game was only about PvP. Thanks for informing me!!
Obviously this is not what Anet intended for their DE's and it will get fixed (especially the one mob kill and it respawns instantly). Their's really no defending it people...but it's not that big of a deal really.
Originally posted by Wickedjelly Originally posted by lizardbones So the only part that is missing is the down time between events, yes? So they're not fighting less, they're just traveling less. If these people wanted, they could run around in a zerg anywhere in the game completing DEs and the only difference is it would take them longer to travel from one DE to the next. Now, if the DEs aren't made to spawn back to back, it should be fixed. That doesn't break the entire game. It doesn't break the entire economy either. I supposed I should expect this type of thing on these forums, but it still bugs me that people go from A to 26 with very little actual connection between the two.
The point is that it is obviously broken. Fairly obvious it isn't meant to spawn that often as well as remarkable when you have such a huge group waiting for it clicking their abilities non stop to the point they actually lag the zone.
...and wtf are you going on about at the end? Did I say anywhere the game or economy is doomed? I was simply remarking that the DE is indeed broke and people are taking advantage of it. Talk about going to A to 26 yourself bud.
The OP may feel this way but I don't. Doesn't change that the event is jacked and it is lame some are taking advantage of it. Zerg or not I think it is safe to say doing events normally would mean you would have more than a couple minutes between each gathering of karma.
The last paragraph wasn't necessarily directed at you. My apologies. Perhaps I should have quoted the original post instead of yours.
It seems to be pretty common on these forums to take something, like back to back DEs, and declare that the economy is broke, the game is broke and everything else is broken and won't recover. The reality is that even if something like this does have an effect, it's generally minimal and temporary. It is difficult to see what things are actually problems and what things are temporary annoyances because everything is a HUGE PROBLEM.
I do agree that the DEs need to be fixed. Possibly not for any of the reasons listed in this thread though. If something is broke, fix it. There doesn't need to be a reason beyond that. If you're going to write something, make it work.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Ehhh I honestyl feel sorry for the people doing this more then anything....
I do not understand why people cry for a good mmo....so one comes along....and then instead of enjoying the journey and the game as a whole they position themselves to do a mindless farm on low level DE's to get....some levels and karma...for....yea....
Sorry but to me it just seems a huge waste of a good time that GW2 offers players. If GW2 was top heavy and built around raid and item progression like say oh I dunno.....WoW....then sure I could see some people getting their panties in a wad and crying over this. Even then I would just feel sorry for someone who would rather give up enjoying the game for some sort of pixelated sense of power that would come from power leveling off newbie content...
GW2 is not WoW though in that sense....and so I feel even sadder still for these people.
As for the economy it is way to early to tell and more this is a global economy I would not jump to wild assumptions because some people are choosing to "exploit" low level Dynamic Events.
Originally posted by mad-hatter Guild Wars is not a PVE game, they don't intend you to slowly level your way in a huge grind, the name of the game is PVP good sir, just like GW1, maybe you should have read a bit about it before you purchased it.
Maybe you should read about the game too. It is true that they didn't want grind or slow pace pve just for the "feel" that the game is big.. But the game is not pvp oriented either.
Their aim is for us to do what we prefer. So they didn't focus on pvp more than let's say dynamic events. So it is different than GW1
Karma is different. They will only be able to buy karma items related to the task that unlocked them. So while they will have a ton of Karma they will be limited in what they can purchase - unless they go through the rest of the game to unlock higher tiers.
But we cant speak to the balance of the economy because as far as I know Trading is still not active. We have to play a wait and see. Speculation and assumption does not equal fact.
This statement is incorrect - Karma is NOT tied to specific tasks. Karma is cumulative, and not unique to the area you got the Karma from. Meaning, if you get 10,000 Karma from the level 15-25 area, you can spend it at any crafting area or any activated Karma area.
If what you're trying to say is "who cares if they have massive Karma, they can't spend it at a Karma heart vendor until they complete the heart mission" - then you are right. However, my point was that Arena Net promoted their economy system being based on a Supply/Demand model.
I don't think you're understanding that Karma can be used heavily within crafting, and as such crafting becomes trivialized, and as such there's an impact to the economy. Again - if you don't understand, then you don't understand... if people TRULY think you should be able to bot or afk and gain 1k exp per 2 min, and 10k++ Karma.... and that's what ANET meant.. well, then I guess I misunderstood the concept of this game.
Hmm, not seeing how this breaks the economy. I mean you can go into any major city and look at the karma gear vendors and see the Rare level 80 takes abot 30k per piece to buy. I'm happy that in 10 levels people are able to gather 1/2 of a single piece of level 80 karma gear. Looks perfectly appropriate to me.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
I really don't understand how the "leveling/economy being broke" has any effect on an individual player?
There are about... 97 ways to level up AND get "max" gear... even a level 80 who buys full Racial/Cultural set isn't "maxed out" yet - takes time/skill/effort to get all the necessary components to create "maxed out" gear even if crafting was power leveled via Karma...
Or dozens of dungeon runs...
So again, how do a handful of powergamers really effect your experience?
If they flood the market with goods, prices go down and everyone wins. Sweet!
Prices go down, value of gold goes down so value of Gems goes down so you can buy more gems per $.
Sweet!
In all honestly these folks will probably continue to power level to max and then get bored and quit because they really just don't get it.
But OMG they'll be Gods in WvW!?
Umm no probably not. Population / skill / coordination > Stats and Level in WvW.
And though they may beat you in WvW today, tomorrow they'll be a new match and you'll be fighting another server that got beat too.
So...
Oops?
If it's an obvious / unintended exploit, Anet will fix it - if it's clever use of game mechanics, they are only hurting themselves and their own enjoyment GRINDING in a game with a focus on NOT grinding through content quickly.
Originally posted by Outis Also, this game is about the journey. Since everything scales you miss all the content if you PL your toons. I do not think anything is broken. What you are talking about is a playstyle others are wanting to do.
I know you folks love the game and all, but I don't think you understand how the game functions as a whole.
Day 1 is precisely when you'd expect to find broken features of such a new system. Did you expect and exploit like that wouldn't be discovered until day 50?
Karma is different. They will only be able to buy karma items related to the task that unlocked them. So while they will have a ton of Karma they will be limited in what they can purchase - unless they go through the rest of the game to unlock higher tiers.
But we cant speak to the balance of the economy because as far as I know Trading is still not active. We have to play a wait and see. Speculation and assumption does not equal fact.
This statement is incorrect - Karma is NOT tied to specific tasks. Karma is cumulative, and not unique to the area you got the Karma from. Meaning, if you get 10,000 Karma from the level 15-25 area, you can spend it at any crafting area or any activated Karma area.
If what you're trying to say is "who cares if they have massive Karma, they can't spend it at a Karma heart vendor until they complete the heart mission" - then you are right. However, my point was that Arena Net promoted their economy system being based on a Supply/Demand model.
I don't think you're understanding that Karma can be used heavily within crafting, and as such crafting becomes trivialized, and as such there's an impact to the economy. Again - if you don't understand, then you don't understand... if people TRULY think you should be able to bot or afk and gain 1k exp per 2 min, and 10k++ Karma.... and that's what ANET meant.. well, then I guess I misunderstood the concept of this game.
Sorry for the misconception.
Considering that I work in finance (real world supply and demand) I can tell you, you will NEVER have a harmonious balance as you cannot control the actors who effect economy. Meaning no matter what ANet does there will always be some way around it. Someone will figure something out to exploit/take advantage/etc. You just try to balance it out the best you can without hurting too many people.
My point is its not going to affect my game or the entertainment I get from playing it. Let them go Karma crazy as far as Im concerned.
Im just not understanding what you expect ANet to do to make you happy. Or how realistic your expectation is.
They are not going to let the game get lopsided. Give it some time and lets see what happens.
Gold is what u need to get the cool itemes sooo... np. Karma is there just for some stuff but if u want to look cool u have to work hard to get urself some gold and have those cool looking itemes no go back to playing ;/
And as it comes to lvling its not hard any way lvling is not meant to be hard or to take u long so why do u care about that part.
Karma is a form of currency - it's beyond just "some stuff" you can easily get every Cooking Recipe there is with that amount of Karma in 1 hour. You can also easily purchase in massive bulk almost everything you need to level Cooking to Max with just Karma - so, beyond the abuse of instant popping events, you gain additional levels from spam crafting with the amount of karma you have.
Wait what? Im a 100+ cook. I disagree with you on being able to gain all recipes. You actually need to go out and gather ingredients to make actual food. What you are making with the karma items are just the seasonings and side items. Almost every food recipe that produces a consumable needs to be discovered or a few can be bought from hearts vendors meaning you need to play the game to get them.
If you want to prove me wrong. Post an actual picture of your cooking list and show me the food you have created.
I really don't understand how the "leveling/economy being broke" has any effect on an individual player?
T... (snip)
My reponse exactly.
This hurts the OP... how? Do they feel like their own leveling experience - their enjoyment of it - is somehow reduced as a result? If so, then they need to re-evaluate why they play these games as well as the fact that several other people play them, and each person is going to do so in the way that they deem is enjoyable.
As far as the game's economy, we'll see. Leveling does not necessarily equal more coin flow into the game. Spending so much time in one area knocking out so many levels just means that you're not learning the rest of the game, or gathering resources, or obtaining the equipment that's necessary to hit more difficult locations, or improving trade skills.
OP, I suggest enjoying the game in your way and not worring about how others are doing it.
I really don't understand how the "leveling/economy being broke" has any effect on an individual player?
T... (snip)
My reponse exactly.
This hurts the OP... how? Do they feel like their own leveling experience - their enjoyment of it - is somehow reduced as a result? If so, then they need to re-evaluate why they play these games as well as the fact that several other people play them, and each person is going to do so in the way that they deem is enjoyable.
As far as the game's economy, we'll see. Leveling does not necessarily equal more coin flow into the game. Spending so much time in one area knocking out so many levels just means that you're not learning the rest of the game, or gathering resources, or obtaining the equipment that's necessary to hit more difficult locations, or improving trade skills.
OP, I suggest enjoying the game in your way and not worring about how others are doing it.
It is inconveniencing others because on some servers it is lagging out other DEs in the area. So it does and has been affecting those simply trying to enjoy the game within itself. Anyways, hopefully this last patch fixes this.
Not that there really needs to be justification.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I'm sure most companies would love to have had this much leniency for their issues. If people exploited anything in any other game people got all up in arms about it. WHere was all this support/acceptance for those companies? And people say there's a lot of hate surrounding this game lol.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If this were any other game, I'd def be pissed about the exploiting. However, this is GW2. Gear doesn't mean as much, money doesn't mean as much, leveling to 80 as fast as you can doesn't mean as much. What matters in GW2 is skill (For the most part). So if people want to exploit to gain level and karma faster, who cares. It's not like you are going to be facing off against them in pvp with legendary weapons that own you in one shot.
On the topic of exploiting. I ran across a large group of people farming one spot (event) every 2 minutes for 900xp + karma + money. The interesting party about this, is that there were bots/cheaters in that mess. How do I know? Pretty simple if you sat around long enough and watched.
A couple of the people were using a 'Target' 'spamfire' etc bot. It was always funny watching them fire off into no where because their target system would target any near enemy. So when an enemy (other than the event boss) came close, they would be shooting in that direction until another enemy appeared. When the boss appeared, the bot would target that and shoot. Exploiters exploiting.
Originally posted by Distopia I'm sure most companies would love to have had this much leniency for their issues. If people exploited anything in any other game people got all up in arms about it. WHere was all this support/acceptance for those companies? And people say there's a lot of hate surrounding this game lol.
Eh...seems the same as any other game:
1. You have one group screaming doom due to an exploit being uncovered and used by players
2. One group condemning it
3. One group defending it justifying if it is possible to do in game then it is not an exploit and normal gameplay
Pretty much the same as always.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Originally posted by Distopia I'm sure most companies would love to have had this much leniency for their issues. If people exploited anything in any other game people got all up in arms about it. WHere was all this support/acceptance for those companies? And people say there's a lot of hate surrounding this game lol.
Eh...seems the same as any other game:
1. You have one group screaming doom due to an exploit being uncovered and used by players
2. One group condemning it
3. One group defending it justifying if it is possible to do in game then it is not an exploit and normal gameplay
Pretty much the same as always.
I've been here a fairly long period of time, over that time I can't recall a time where issues like this weren't covered in 100 different threads- An exaggeration yes, just trying to put an emphasis on how many threads would typcially be devoted to issues like this, or some of the others I've been hearing about.
Typical rhetoric is similar for sure, as well as sides being represented. But I wouldn't say the environment is as nasty as it usually is.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
All I care about is what Arenanet intended. And they never intended a typical MMO long lvl grind. The time it takes from lvl30 to 31 is supposed to be the same as 50 to 51.
If you dont care about exploring the content, the DE's, areas, PVP and only in lvling as fast as possible, then the devs never intended the game to be for you. I'm not saying that it is wrong to play just for the lvling part, it is just that the game isnt designed for that treadmill.
What I can't figure out is why anyone cares what level they are. It makes no difference in pve. Why circle jerk DEs for xp at all?
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Comments
Wow didn't know this game was only about PvP. Thanks for informing me!!
Obviously this is not what Anet intended for their DE's and it will get fixed (especially the one mob kill and it respawns instantly). Their's really no defending it people...but it's not that big of a deal really.
...and wtf are you going on about at the end? Did I say anywhere the game or economy is doomed? I was simply remarking that the DE is indeed broke and people are taking advantage of it. Talk about going to A to 26 yourself bud.
The OP may feel this way but I don't. Doesn't change that the event is jacked and it is lame some are taking advantage of it. Zerg or not I think it is safe to say doing events normally would mean you would have more than a couple minutes between each gathering of karma.
The last paragraph wasn't necessarily directed at you. My apologies. Perhaps I should have quoted the original post instead of yours.
It seems to be pretty common on these forums to take something, like back to back DEs, and declare that the economy is broke, the game is broke and everything else is broken and won't recover. The reality is that even if something like this does have an effect, it's generally minimal and temporary. It is difficult to see what things are actually problems and what things are temporary annoyances because everything is a HUGE PROBLEM.
I do agree that the DEs need to be fixed. Possibly not for any of the reasons listed in this thread though. If something is broke, fix it. There doesn't need to be a reason beyond that. If you're going to write something, make it work.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Ehhh I honestyl feel sorry for the people doing this more then anything....
I do not understand why people cry for a good mmo....so one comes along....and then instead of enjoying the journey and the game as a whole they position themselves to do a mindless farm on low level DE's to get....some levels and karma...for....yea....
Sorry but to me it just seems a huge waste of a good time that GW2 offers players. If GW2 was top heavy and built around raid and item progression like say oh I dunno.....WoW....then sure I could see some people getting their panties in a wad and crying over this. Even then I would just feel sorry for someone who would rather give up enjoying the game for some sort of pixelated sense of power that would come from power leveling off newbie content...
GW2 is not WoW though in that sense....and so I feel even sadder still for these people.
As for the economy it is way to early to tell and more this is a global economy I would not jump to wild assumptions because some people are choosing to "exploit" low level Dynamic Events.
Maybe you should read about the game too. It is true that they didn't want grind or slow pace pve just for the "feel" that the game is big.. But the game is not pvp oriented either.
Their aim is for us to do what we prefer. So they didn't focus on pvp more than let's say dynamic events. So it is different than GW1
This statement is incorrect - Karma is NOT tied to specific tasks. Karma is cumulative, and not unique to the area you got the Karma from. Meaning, if you get 10,000 Karma from the level 15-25 area, you can spend it at any crafting area or any activated Karma area.
If what you're trying to say is "who cares if they have massive Karma, they can't spend it at a Karma heart vendor until they complete the heart mission" - then you are right. However, my point was that Arena Net promoted their economy system being based on a Supply/Demand model.
I don't think you're understanding that Karma can be used heavily within crafting, and as such crafting becomes trivialized, and as such there's an impact to the economy. Again - if you don't understand, then you don't understand... if people TRULY think you should be able to bot or afk and gain 1k exp per 2 min, and 10k++ Karma.... and that's what ANET meant.. well, then I guess I misunderstood the concept of this game.
Non-factor complaint thread, about a subject that doesn't warrant a complaint.
Nothing to see here folks.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
I really don't understand how the "leveling/economy being broke" has any effect on an individual player?
There are about... 97 ways to level up AND get "max" gear... even a level 80 who buys full Racial/Cultural set isn't "maxed out" yet - takes time/skill/effort to get all the necessary components to create "maxed out" gear even if crafting was power leveled via Karma...
Or dozens of dungeon runs...
So again, how do a handful of powergamers really effect your experience?
If they flood the market with goods, prices go down and everyone wins. Sweet!
Prices go down, value of gold goes down so value of Gems goes down so you can buy more gems per $.
Sweet!
In all honestly these folks will probably continue to power level to max and then get bored and quit because they really just don't get it.
But OMG they'll be Gods in WvW!?
Umm no probably not. Population / skill / coordination > Stats and Level in WvW.
And though they may beat you in WvW today, tomorrow they'll be a new match and you'll be fighting another server that got beat too.
So...
Oops?
If it's an obvious / unintended exploit, Anet will fix it - if it's clever use of game mechanics, they are only hurting themselves and their own enjoyment GRINDING in a game with a focus on NOT grinding through content quickly.
I know you folks love the game and all, but I don't think you understand how the game functions as a whole.
Sorry for the misconception.
Considering that I work in finance (real world supply and demand) I can tell you, you will NEVER have a harmonious balance as you cannot control the actors who effect economy. Meaning no matter what ANet does there will always be some way around it. Someone will figure something out to exploit/take advantage/etc. You just try to balance it out the best you can without hurting too many people.
My point is its not going to affect my game or the entertainment I get from playing it. Let them go Karma crazy as far as Im concerned.
Im just not understanding what you expect ANet to do to make you happy. Or how realistic your expectation is.
They are not going to let the game get lopsided. Give it some time and lets see what happens.
Wait what? Im a 100+ cook. I disagree with you on being able to gain all recipes. You actually need to go out and gather ingredients to make actual food. What you are making with the karma items are just the seasonings and side items. Almost every food recipe that produces a consumable needs to be discovered or a few can be bought from hearts vendors meaning you need to play the game to get them.
If you want to prove me wrong. Post an actual picture of your cooking list and show me the food you have created.
BOOYAKA!
My reponse exactly.
This hurts the OP... how? Do they feel like their own leveling experience - their enjoyment of it - is somehow reduced as a result? If so, then they need to re-evaluate why they play these games as well as the fact that several other people play them, and each person is going to do so in the way that they deem is enjoyable.
As far as the game's economy, we'll see. Leveling does not necessarily equal more coin flow into the game. Spending so much time in one area knocking out so many levels just means that you're not learning the rest of the game, or gathering resources, or obtaining the equipment that's necessary to hit more difficult locations, or improving trade skills.
OP, I suggest enjoying the game in your way and not worring about how others are doing it.
It is inconveniencing others because on some servers it is lagging out other DEs in the area. So it does and has been affecting those simply trying to enjoy the game within itself. Anyways, hopefully this last patch fixes this.
Not that there really needs to be justification.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If this were any other game, I'd def be pissed about the exploiting. However, this is GW2. Gear doesn't mean as much, money doesn't mean as much, leveling to 80 as fast as you can doesn't mean as much. What matters in GW2 is skill (For the most part). So if people want to exploit to gain level and karma faster, who cares. It's not like you are going to be facing off against them in pvp with legendary weapons that own you in one shot.
On the topic of exploiting. I ran across a large group of people farming one spot (event) every 2 minutes for 900xp + karma + money. The interesting party about this, is that there were bots/cheaters in that mess. How do I know? Pretty simple if you sat around long enough and watched.
A couple of the people were using a 'Target' 'spamfire' etc bot. It was always funny watching them fire off into no where because their target system would target any near enemy. So when an enemy (other than the event boss) came close, they would be shooting in that direction until another enemy appeared. When the boss appeared, the bot would target that and shoot. Exploiters exploiting.
Eh...seems the same as any other game:
1. You have one group screaming doom due to an exploit being uncovered and used by players
2. One group condemning it
3. One group defending it justifying if it is possible to do in game then it is not an exploit and normal gameplay
Pretty much the same as always.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I've been here a fairly long period of time, over that time I can't recall a time where issues like this weren't covered in 100 different threads- An exaggeration yes, just trying to put an emphasis on how many threads would typcially be devoted to issues like this, or some of the others I've been hearing about.
Typical rhetoric is similar for sure, as well as sides being represented. But I wouldn't say the environment is as nasty as it usually is.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
All I care about is what Arenanet intended. And they never intended a typical MMO long lvl grind. The time it takes from lvl30 to 31 is supposed to be the same as 50 to 51.
If you dont care about exploring the content, the DE's, areas, PVP and only in lvling as fast as possible, then the devs never intended the game to be for you. I'm not saying that it is wrong to play just for the lvling part, it is just that the game isnt designed for that treadmill.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.