Originally posted by clumsytoes44 Although i'm not a big fan of the FFA/FL system, I think it should be around for the people that enjoy it. So in a sense I agree, and disagree with you.
Same here, as said in a similar topic about pvp I don't mind it aslong as it's optional. But then again if it's optional most pvp'rs will notice how little intrest there actually is in FFA/OWPVP and will start to complain that pvp s***s.
Well, if the game has FFA PVP it IS optional. You have the option to not play the game. I dont see why people think every game has to please every crowd when thats simply not possible.
Originally posted by clumsytoes44 Although i'm not a big fan of the FFA/FL system, I think it should be around for the people that enjoy it. So in a sense I agree, and disagree with you.
Same here, as said in a similar topic about pvp I don't mind it aslong as it's optional. But then again if it's optional most pvp'rs will notice how little intrest there actually is in FFA/OWPVP and will start to complain that pvp s***s.
Well, if the game has FFA PVP it IS optional. You have the option to not play the game. I dont see why people think every game has to please every crowd when thats simply not possible.
Well very obviously I am speaking about a game that is already played and enjoyed where in that game FFA PVP IS optional.
Having been there where all sorts of gameplay was given to it's players it pretty hard to adjust to this limited genre the MMO has turned into.
Originally posted by emperorwings Back in the UO days it was fun and exciting because it was done right back then. I can expand on that if required.
I'd like you to expand please because I played UO when it first launched and it wasn't much fun for me or my buddy. Now, grant you, I admit to being a total MMO noob back then and had no concept of having to be in a guild or anything. My good friend and I just found the game and thought it would be something cool to play together.
We started playing and were having a great time when suddenly roaming bands of 6-8 people would come along and wipe us out, take everything and leave us with nothing. There was no chance to get away or fight back. We didn't necessarily want to have to join a big guild or group up with 5-6 people at all time just to be safe in the world. We wanted to be able to run around as a duo and have fun, but that wasn't possible.
Do FFA and Full Loot have to be together? Why not some form of multi-faction PvP with Full loot or some other type of Player Loot...such as designating one equiped item as lootable. No swapping if things go bad. There could be some sort of restrictions so people couldn't designate some piece of garbage....or maybe not, if wearing that garbage piece gimps them enough.
I do not like the full loot feature because it essentially rewards gankers and over geared, overly powerful players and creates the opposite for a new or still progressing player.
I like this design when you are rewarded with drops much the same as when Mobs drop items. They don't have to be taken from the corpse but still reward the player with gold, loot, and a chance at some decent gear or items.
The pvpers will get rewarded for having some fun and the unfortunate souls that are dead still keep their gear, money, and dignity. This scenario is still not fun for underpowered players trying to progress but at least they are not pushed back to square one over and over.
I really wouldn't play any game with a full body loot system again as I have tried them twice. First with DarkFall and then with Day Z.
The experience I got was at first it was exciting and new. However after awhile you get people who just pick on you because your an easy kill and they get some kind of rush by greifing you. Sometimes they didn't take my loot but at other times they would send me a tell saying how they destroyed my loot or I would just come back to an empty body. I knew they couldn't of taken it all along with the gear or any other loot they may have had because of the loot system and how much Newbie junk I had on me.
There comes a point where it is just griefing and ceases to be enjoyable for one of the parties. In day-z I expeirenced the same over all thing but it was much eaiser to avoid and was obviously a beta mod that needs a lot of work. Nothing quite as infuriating as grinding all day and then losing a couple hours of work because someone decides to be a dick.
In my opinion it is fine if game developers want to have this system in their titles but they should understand they are only appealing to a niche minority of the audience. I personally won't play those games anymore unless the PvP is completely optional if it has a full body loot system. Go ahead call me a carebear I don't care I know what I enjoy. I am not here to [;ay games so I can validate those want to grief people.
So in short... anything I do not like or understand should be banned.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
I don't like full loot because there is no reason for a player loses his items, if a player is going to drop some of his items upon death, in my opinion there must be a reason. Because of this I like the system of Lineage, because it provides guild wars in owpvp without making new players or neutral players(players that are not war with any other clan) to suffer by being ganked with no reason and no consequences for the ganker, only pkers(players that kill neutral players will become pk, while in pk state, any player can kill him and he can drop his items).
I will post again:
Originally posted by Prenho
Themepark players never heard about pk and karma? Any sandbox focused in OW pvp-clan wars that wants to be decent use a pk system. Lineage 1 and Lineage 2 show this. Just add a pk system, there are 2 things to consider:
1 - PvP without war:
If player A wants to kill player B but player B is not at war with him(player B belongs to a clan that is not at war with player A clan, or simply doesn't belong to any clan). Player A starts attacking, so his name changes from White(normal state) to purple(flagged state), so 2 things can happen depending if player B will react or not:
a - Player B doesn't react: if player B doesn't want to react and player A kills him, it means that he killed a player with white name(normal state), so player A will gain karma and his name will change to red color(it means that he became pk, pks are banned from towns, he can't enter cities or talk to npcs, and if someone dies while in pk state, he can lose some(or all) items(as his weapon or armor).
A pk player needs to kill monters of his gap of level until he cleans his karma and his name becomes white again. Anyone can kill a pk without worrying, pks can be killed and the killer won't become pk, just will have a change to loot some items from pk after killing him.
A(white name) atks B(white name) = A becomes purple name
A(purple name) kills B(white name) = A becomes red name(pk) gain karma because he killed a white name.
b - Player B reacts: player B decides to fight back, so player B will become a purple name too, both players are purple, so this fight will end up and nobody will become pk, because both players are flagged, the winner will just have to wait some time until his name turns white again.
A(white name) atks B(white name) = A becomes purple name
B(white name) atks back = B becomes purple name
Both palyer are flagged, so it doesn't matter who wins, nobody will become pk because both players opened flag.
2 - PVP with war
Player A finds player B and he notices that player B belongs to a clan that is at war with his clan, in this case, the rule above does not work anymore, because both players are at war, so no matter if player A kills player B without player B reacts or not, you can kill him without worrying about becoming pk, the winner will gain pvp point and clan reputation(you can use special clan skills with reputation). So the players make their own alliances and enemies, while a poor faction game, there are only 2(or 3) factions.
So just because you dont like how a system works, it should be banned from MMos forever?
Listen, I'm not a big fan of themeparks, but do I think they should be wiped off? Or as you put it, a "thing of the past"? NO. If you enjoy it, if there are other people that enjoy it, then thats good enough to keep it around.
I am not going to penalize a certain group of people just because I dont like their playstyle. More importantly, if you take that system away you are further restricting the creativity and innovation in the industry which is so desperately needed at this time. Seriously. You want to restrict innovation even more?
What a load of rubbish! It sounds like this post was thrown up after the author tried out a PvP loot game and got killed. If you dont like it, DONT PLAY IT. But dont go around saying "all these games should be eradicted off the earth!" Its wrong.
Its not like its even a popular system. The heavy death penalty PvP system has been so demonized, so hated, it hardly exists anymore. There are only a few games left that employ these systems. So leave them be. They've been beaten down enough.
Originally posted by Theocritus It only makes it fun for those who enjoy ruining other players gaming.....In general it caters to people that most of us would consider jerks.
I agree. and it creates a community in which you cant even trust people outside your group/guild/clan whatever.
Thats leaves truly bad PvE gameplay, since nothing can be done without your guild members on a large scale effort.
take GW2 for example. The Events are built around players of any kind, coming together to tackle this task.
in FFA/FL situation, this wouldnt work, since nobody would trust each other for teamwork unless they were guild members/clan members.
It just opens the game up to be ruined by jerks as you put it. Game may have interesting gameplay, but ruined by the players, not the game.
It's a niche genre, and as such just as valid as any other niche genre.
Personally I am not a fan of it, but that doesn't mean others can't or shouldn't like it.
Anyway, even If you don't like it, be positive about it! Shouldn't you be happy these games exist and attract "this certain type of player"? They are not in your preferred game anymore... win/win, right?
It's really simple for me, a regular MMO offers absolutely zero paranioa that comes with for example, watching a scary movie, or playing a scary game such as Deadspace.
But a full loot MMO offers that anxiety that comes with scary stuff, because at any moment you can be jumped and lose everything. So for me, if theres nothing to lose and theres nothing to gain, then whats the point in playing?
So since you are against FFA PVP are you also against advanced NPC AI that does anything more than run straight up to you and attack until you kill it? I personally find NO challenge in fighting NPC, and prefer to square off against another living breathing THINKING human being. Would you complain if the NPC stalked you and attacked you when your health was low, or led you into an ambush? I think you would. What you people hate is anything that is not EASY. If something bests you in combat then the entire system must be done away with! Am I right?
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
I forgot to add about communities also, there are some harping on saying FFA/FL kills communities, but thats not that case. Some of the best, closest communities were built within these games and are still active today due to how strong they became.
If anything communities are worse within PvE games, simply because there are no consquences for idiot actions.
I have been against FFA/Full Loot for a long time, but I, in no way, think it should be banned. There are those who really enjoy it. My major beef is the unbending sides to this arguement. Those who have wonderful sandbox titles with FFA/FL already in place, vehemently disagree with even the slightest whiff of spawning a PvE based server in their game.
I have, for a long time now, believed that if one of these games, say Darkfall for example, were to not touch the core server. Do you FFA guys understand this, Do Not Touch the PvP server. Leave the dev team who currently work on the core server to continue to do their jobs as is.
Then create a second server with a PvE ruleset where those who wish to partake in PvP can "flag" if they wish to i.e. SWG. Then advertise the crap out of the new server, the revenue generated from the influx of sandbaox hopefuls to this new server would be enough to pay for the additional jobs required for the new server and also bleed over into allowing the team to have more funding for the original PvP server. It's a Win-Win.
This most likely would not work in a game such as Eve, but in Darkfall or Mortal Online, it most certainly would.
I think it's all relative. Relative to personal preference, and relative to how the FFA PvP with or without FL is setup.
I am not a proponent of FFA PvP or FL, but I do play on a Minecraft server that has FFA PvP and FL. However, it's possible to setup faction territory that is safe. It takes a bit of effort, but I have a safe place to hang out if I want it. So in this game, on this server, FFA PvP with FL is fun. On other servers, not so much.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I think it's all relative. Relative to personal preference, and relative to how the FFA PvP with or without FL is setup.
I am not a proponent of FFA PvP or FL, but I do play on a Minecraft server that has FFA PvP and FL. However, it's possible to setup faction territory that is safe. It takes a bit of effort, but I have a safe place to hang out if I want it. So in this game, on this server, FFA PvP with FL is fun. On other servers, not so much.
You do realize that your faction areas can be taken over by other factions right? All it takes is them killing you a few times and then claiming your land for themselves.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Originally posted by Theocritus It only makes it fun for those who enjoy ruining other players gaming.....In general it caters to people that most of us would consider jerks.
I agree. and it creates a community in which you cant even trust people outside your group/guild/clan whatever.
Thats leaves truly bad PvE gameplay, since nothing can be done without your guild members on a large scale effort.
take GW2 for example. The Events are built around players of any kind, coming together to tackle this task.
in FFA/FL situation, this wouldnt work, since nobody would trust each other for teamwork unless they were guild members/clan members.
It just opens the game up to be ruined by jerks as you put it. Game may have interesting gameplay, but ruined by the players, not the game.
What you are complaining about is exactly why I love FFA PVP centric games, it really is you, your guild or even your alliance (EVE isn't the only MMO to have them) against the rest of the server.
I specfically played on DAOC's FFA PVP server (despite my carebear nature) because I enjoyed the our clan against the server mentality.
You are right, you would be in the middle of doing some open world PVE content and another guild would come along and attempt to disrupt whatever it was you were doing.
Meant that downing a dragon on Mordred was much more challenging than on a Blue server and when my clan finally did it we considered it a real accomplishement.
Yet even on that server, there was one guy who managed to band the various guilds together for "pugged" dragon raids and it worked really well, they took down a dragon a week for almost a year until one day he decided to run off with the full loot for himself and close the character. (loot was quite valuable back in the day)
It is exactly this sort of unpredictability that draws people like me to this sort of game play, anyone can down standard PVE content by memorizing the right dance moves, much more challenging trying to complete it while the gank squad is on your heels.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So since you are against FFA PVP are you also against advanced NPC AI that does anything more than run straight up to you and attack until you kill it? I personally find NO challenge in fighting NPC, and prefer to square off against another living breathing THINKING human being. Would you complain if the NPC stalked you and attacked you when your health was low, or led you into an ambush? I think you would. What you people hate is anything that is not EASY. If something bests you in combat then the entire system must be done away with! Am I right?
that argument is faulty, since it has nothing to do with FFA/FL mechanics.
Nothing about it makes gameplay hard or easy, which is a difficulty, not a penalty.
Better AI, has nothing to do with FFA/FL. no idea why you even bring this up.
People may hate on anything not easy, but FFA/FL is not HARD ether...
You non FFA types look at FFA pvp as a hinderance. It slows down your gear grind and inhibits your ability to feel like the ultimate hero. You don't care about the challenge. The journey is not nearly as important as the reward to you. You can't stand the thought of someone taking advantage of your sloppy tactics. You cringe at the thought of losing your hard earned pixels to an opportunist. You shy away from challenging games, and simply want to focus on that juicy carrot that hangs in front of you.
If you can't see the similarity between a NPC with advanced AI and a PVP then there is no point in talking to you. Both are very much alike. You don't want a challenge. Gaming to you is not anything more than a way to feel better about yourself by vanquishing millions of brain dead pixels to procure pixels to make you "better". You don't want anything to stand in the way of your mindless treadmill progression.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Why people like it is because it gives some players the so called "gambler's rush". Not everyone get it, but some do. Some people need to "risk it" in order to enjoy it. Others don't feel it in a video game no matter how high the penalty.
For example, I don't get the gambler's rush when I play a games. Personally I think it is a cheap way to boost an otherwise boring game; look at Blackjack - it is not nearly as fun without the bets as with them.
I don't get that 'gambler's rush' either. I get pleasure from building things and improving to the point of beating a challenge. I don't really see the point of reducing the fun by introducing pointless gambling. If you have to gamble, it means that you did not prepare properly.
Blackjack is quite dull. On the other hand counting cards can be fun since you are challenging yourself to beat the system through skill rather than dumb luck.
I don't get that 'gambler's rush' either. I get pleasure from building things and improving to the point of beating a challenge. I don't really see the point of reducing the fun by introducing pointless gambling. If you have to gamble, it means that you did not prepare properly.
Blackjack is quite dull. On the other hand counting cards can be fun since you are challenging yourself to beat the system through skill rather than dumb luck.
Adding a risk level to something does not all of a sudden mean that the original challenge of a game in terms of skill level and/or preparation is diminished.
You could apply added "risk" to pretty much any game/sport type situation and that at no point means that the actual skill/preparation needed to win said game is reduced. Some people enjoy the added risk/rush, some don't.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
You non FFA types look at FFA pvp as a hinderance. It slows down your gear grind and inhibits your ability to feel like the ultimate hero. You don't care about the challenge. The journey is not nearly as important as the reward to you. You can't stand the thought of someone taking advantage of your sloppy tactics. You cringe at the thought of losing your hard earned pixels to an opportunist. You shy away from challenging games, and simply want to focus on that juicy carrot that hangs in front of you.
If you can't see the similarity between a NPC with advanced AI and a PVP then there is no point in talking to you. Both are very much alike. You don't want a challenge. Gaming to you is not anything more than a way to feel better about yourself by vanquishing millions of brain dead pixels to procure pixels to make you "better". You don't want anything to stand in the way of your mindless treadmill progression.
This has to be one of the best posts I have erver read on here, 100% true. Shame that those who you describe will never admit to this, but we know better
I disagree when you say a community cannot regulate itself, ever heard of Phantasy Star Online?
For those that do not know, Sega had no staff or support whatsoever so the only way to get any kind of support or any kind of help was the community that played the game.
Not only that, but because the 99% of the content (Including chars and items) were stored locally and playable/modifiable offline, hacking ran rampant around the game, and it wasn´t long till the "evil" hackers took hold of the GM powers and admin abilities and started destroying everyone´s experience, banning innocent players and erasing character data by forceformatting people´s memory cards by injecting a corrupted "save code".
But that only spurred the "good" hackers to strike back, inventing anti "code injection" codes that protected the lobbies they played on from being corrupted by the "evil" ones, people started buying devices irl to be able to use these codes unto the game and protect themselves and their friends, and everyone sook out company and protection, creating an authentic "faction war" between the community.
By the end of it all, there were servers "ruled by the hackers" where anything could happen, you entered at your own risk and really weird shit happened around, with people running around with different fonts and skins, people making their own content and lots of hierarchy and "respect " that truly reminded the viewer of the mafia.
Then there were the servers protected by the good hackers and their helpers, where everyone helped each other, helped victims of the hackers restore their lost stuff, played normally and legally, and the code devs attempted to keep up with the newer "evil hacks" so that everyone could continue to do so.
And because people knew that "Outside" it was a cruel and harsh environment, people´s reputation really mattered and people truly had to answer for their own actions, so people were a lot more good to each other than usual.
And they were a lot more appreciative of good company and someone who would help them.
There was so much trust within the good segments of the community, that often people shared their accounts with each other to conquer specific events or to play when one could not pay the subscription, and in 4 years i never heard of a single account theft between these people.
I personally was very lucky because the daughter of one of the "evil hackers" had quite a crush on me, and thus i was free to go around safely thru both worlds and i was able to experience both communities, and it was truly an unforgettable experience.
By doing so i found out that the "evil hackers" were not necessarily all evil and that lots of them just hanged around because they loved the idea of being able to modify the game to the extremes and sook out to make "a game within a game", exploring all the possibilities, while some of the hackers that supposedly were "good" would be found guilty of being the very ones who created the nocive codes to begin with and would spread them between the evil ones, and then they would create the counter-hack so they would look like heroes and be liked by the people and respected by the community.
In the end, when the dust settled everything was fine and the PS saga has one of the most hardcore and diehard fanbases of any online game in history.
Comments
Well, if the game has FFA PVP it IS optional. You have the option to not play the game. I dont see why people think every game has to please every crowd when thats simply not possible.
Well very obviously I am speaking about a game that is already played and enjoyed where in that game FFA PVP IS optional.
Having been there where all sorts of gameplay was given to it's players it pretty hard to adjust to this limited genre the MMO has turned into.
I'd like you to expand please because I played UO when it first launched and it wasn't much fun for me or my buddy. Now, grant you, I admit to being a total MMO noob back then and had no concept of having to be in a guild or anything. My good friend and I just found the game and thought it would be something cool to play together.
We started playing and were having a great time when suddenly roaming bands of 6-8 people would come along and wipe us out, take everything and leave us with nothing. There was no chance to get away or fight back. We didn't necessarily want to have to join a big guild or group up with 5-6 people at all time just to be safe in the world. We wanted to be able to run around as a duo and have fun, but that wasn't possible.
Do FFA and Full Loot have to be together? Why not some form of multi-faction PvP with Full loot or some other type of Player Loot...such as designating one equiped item as lootable. No swapping if things go bad. There could be some sort of restrictions so people couldn't designate some piece of garbage....or maybe not, if wearing that garbage piece gimps them enough.
Or are any restrictions at all bad?
I do not like the full loot feature because it essentially rewards gankers and over geared, overly powerful players and creates the opposite for a new or still progressing player.
I like this design when you are rewarded with drops much the same as when Mobs drop items. They don't have to be taken from the corpse but still reward the player with gold, loot, and a chance at some decent gear or items.
The pvpers will get rewarded for having some fun and the unfortunate souls that are dead still keep their gear, money, and dignity. This scenario is still not fun for underpowered players trying to progress but at least they are not pushed back to square one over and over.
I really wouldn't play any game with a full body loot system again as I have tried them twice. First with DarkFall and then with Day Z.
The experience I got was at first it was exciting and new. However after awhile you get people who just pick on you because your an easy kill and they get some kind of rush by greifing you. Sometimes they didn't take my loot but at other times they would send me a tell saying how they destroyed my loot or I would just come back to an empty body. I knew they couldn't of taken it all along with the gear or any other loot they may have had because of the loot system and how much Newbie junk I had on me.
There comes a point where it is just griefing and ceases to be enjoyable for one of the parties. In day-z I expeirenced the same over all thing but it was much eaiser to avoid and was obviously a beta mod that needs a lot of work. Nothing quite as infuriating as grinding all day and then losing a couple hours of work because someone decides to be a dick.
In my opinion it is fine if game developers want to have this system in their titles but they should understand they are only appealing to a niche minority of the audience. I personally won't play those games anymore unless the PvP is completely optional if it has a full body loot system. Go ahead call me a carebear I don't care I know what I enjoy. I am not here to [;ay games so I can validate those want to grief people.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
I don't like full loot because there is no reason for a player loses his items, if a player is going to drop some of his items upon death, in my opinion there must be a reason. Because of this I like the system of Lineage, because it provides guild wars in owpvp without making new players or neutral players(players that are not war with any other clan) to suffer by being ganked with no reason and no consequences for the ganker, only pkers(players that kill neutral players will become pk, while in pk state, any player can kill him and he can drop his items).
I will post again:
So just because you dont like how a system works, it should be banned from MMos forever?
Listen, I'm not a big fan of themeparks, but do I think they should be wiped off? Or as you put it, a "thing of the past"? NO. If you enjoy it, if there are other people that enjoy it, then thats good enough to keep it around.
I am not going to penalize a certain group of people just because I dont like their playstyle. More importantly, if you take that system away you are further restricting the creativity and innovation in the industry which is so desperately needed at this time. Seriously. You want to restrict innovation even more?
What a load of rubbish! It sounds like this post was thrown up after the author tried out a PvP loot game and got killed. If you dont like it, DONT PLAY IT. But dont go around saying "all these games should be eradicted off the earth!" Its wrong.
Its not like its even a popular system. The heavy death penalty PvP system has been so demonized, so hated, it hardly exists anymore. There are only a few games left that employ these systems. So leave them be. They've been beaten down enough.
I agree. and it creates a community in which you cant even trust people outside your group/guild/clan whatever.
Thats leaves truly bad PvE gameplay, since nothing can be done without your guild members on a large scale effort.
take GW2 for example. The Events are built around players of any kind, coming together to tackle this task.
in FFA/FL situation, this wouldnt work, since nobody would trust each other for teamwork unless they were guild members/clan members.
It just opens the game up to be ruined by jerks as you put it. Game may have interesting gameplay, but ruined by the players, not the game.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
It's a niche genre, and as such just as valid as any other niche genre.
Personally I am not a fan of it, but that doesn't mean others can't or shouldn't like it.
Anyway, even If you don't like it, be positive about it! Shouldn't you be happy these games exist and attract "this certain type of player"? They are not in your preferred game anymore... win/win, right?
It's really simple for me, a regular MMO offers absolutely zero paranioa that comes with for example, watching a scary movie, or playing a scary game such as Deadspace.
But a full loot MMO offers that anxiety that comes with scary stuff, because at any moment you can be jumped and lose everything. So for me, if theres nothing to lose and theres nothing to gain, then whats the point in playing?
So since you are against FFA PVP are you also against advanced NPC AI that does anything more than run straight up to you and attack until you kill it? I personally find NO challenge in fighting NPC, and prefer to square off against another living breathing THINKING human being. Would you complain if the NPC stalked you and attacked you when your health was low, or led you into an ambush? I think you would. What you people hate is anything that is not EASY. If something bests you in combat then the entire system must be done away with! Am I right?
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Holy shi.. MMOExposed doesn't understand something!
Historical event right here ladys and gents, something to tell your grandkids!
I forgot to add about communities also, there are some harping on saying FFA/FL kills communities, but thats not that case. Some of the best, closest communities were built within these games and are still active today due to how strong they became.
If anything communities are worse within PvE games, simply because there are no consquences for idiot actions.
I have been against FFA/Full Loot for a long time, but I, in no way, think it should be banned. There are those who really enjoy it. My major beef is the unbending sides to this arguement. Those who have wonderful sandbox titles with FFA/FL already in place, vehemently disagree with even the slightest whiff of spawning a PvE based server in their game.
I have, for a long time now, believed that if one of these games, say Darkfall for example, were to not touch the core server. Do you FFA guys understand this, Do Not Touch the PvP server. Leave the dev team who currently work on the core server to continue to do their jobs as is.
Then create a second server with a PvE ruleset where those who wish to partake in PvP can "flag" if they wish to i.e. SWG. Then advertise the crap out of the new server, the revenue generated from the influx of sandbaox hopefuls to this new server would be enough to pay for the additional jobs required for the new server and also bleed over into allowing the team to have more funding for the original PvP server. It's a Win-Win.
This most likely would not work in a game such as Eve, but in Darkfall or Mortal Online, it most certainly would.
I think it's all relative. Relative to personal preference, and relative to how the FFA PvP with or without FL is setup.
I am not a proponent of FFA PvP or FL, but I do play on a Minecraft server that has FFA PvP and FL. However, it's possible to setup faction territory that is safe. It takes a bit of effort, but I have a safe place to hang out if I want it. So in this game, on this server, FFA PvP with FL is fun. On other servers, not so much.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
You do realize that your faction areas can be taken over by other factions right? All it takes is them killing you a few times and then claiming your land for themselves.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
What you are complaining about is exactly why I love FFA PVP centric games, it really is you, your guild or even your alliance (EVE isn't the only MMO to have them) against the rest of the server.
I specfically played on DAOC's FFA PVP server (despite my carebear nature) because I enjoyed the our clan against the server mentality.
You are right, you would be in the middle of doing some open world PVE content and another guild would come along and attempt to disrupt whatever it was you were doing.
Meant that downing a dragon on Mordred was much more challenging than on a Blue server and when my clan finally did it we considered it a real accomplishement.
Yet even on that server, there was one guy who managed to band the various guilds together for "pugged" dragon raids and it worked really well, they took down a dragon a week for almost a year until one day he decided to run off with the full loot for himself and close the character. (loot was quite valuable back in the day)
It is exactly this sort of unpredictability that draws people like me to this sort of game play, anyone can down standard PVE content by memorizing the right dance moves, much more challenging trying to complete it while the gank squad is on your heels.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
that argument is faulty, since it has nothing to do with FFA/FL mechanics.
Nothing about it makes gameplay hard or easy, which is a difficulty, not a penalty.
Better AI, has nothing to do with FFA/FL. no idea why you even bring this up.
People may hate on anything not easy, but FFA/FL is not HARD ether...
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
You non FFA types look at FFA pvp as a hinderance. It slows down your gear grind and inhibits your ability to feel like the ultimate hero. You don't care about the challenge. The journey is not nearly as important as the reward to you. You can't stand the thought of someone taking advantage of your sloppy tactics. You cringe at the thought of losing your hard earned pixels to an opportunist. You shy away from challenging games, and simply want to focus on that juicy carrot that hangs in front of you.
If you can't see the similarity between a NPC with advanced AI and a PVP then there is no point in talking to you. Both are very much alike. You don't want a challenge. Gaming to you is not anything more than a way to feel better about yourself by vanquishing millions of brain dead pixels to procure pixels to make you "better". You don't want anything to stand in the way of your mindless treadmill progression.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
I don't get that 'gambler's rush' either. I get pleasure from building things and improving to the point of beating a challenge. I don't really see the point of reducing the fun by introducing pointless gambling. If you have to gamble, it means that you did not prepare properly.
Blackjack is quite dull. On the other hand counting cards can be fun since you are challenging yourself to beat the system through skill rather than dumb luck.
Adding a risk level to something does not all of a sudden mean that the original challenge of a game in terms of skill level and/or preparation is diminished.
You could apply added "risk" to pretty much any game/sport type situation and that at no point means that the actual skill/preparation needed to win said game is reduced. Some people enjoy the added risk/rush, some don't.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
This has to be one of the best posts I have erver read on here, 100% true. Shame that those who you describe will never admit to this, but we know better
I disagree when you say a community cannot regulate itself, ever heard of Phantasy Star Online?
For those that do not know, Sega had no staff or support whatsoever so the only way to get any kind of support or any kind of help was the community that played the game.
Not only that, but because the 99% of the content (Including chars and items) were stored locally and playable/modifiable offline, hacking ran rampant around the game, and it wasn´t long till the "evil" hackers took hold of the GM powers and admin abilities and started destroying everyone´s experience, banning innocent players and erasing character data by forceformatting people´s memory cards by injecting a corrupted "save code".
But that only spurred the "good" hackers to strike back, inventing anti "code injection" codes that protected the lobbies they played on from being corrupted by the "evil" ones, people started buying devices irl to be able to use these codes unto the game and protect themselves and their friends, and everyone sook out company and protection, creating an authentic "faction war" between the community.
By the end of it all, there were servers "ruled by the hackers" where anything could happen, you entered at your own risk and really weird shit happened around, with people running around with different fonts and skins, people making their own content and lots of hierarchy and "respect " that truly reminded the viewer of the mafia.
Then there were the servers protected by the good hackers and their helpers, where everyone helped each other, helped victims of the hackers restore their lost stuff, played normally and legally, and the code devs attempted to keep up with the newer "evil hacks" so that everyone could continue to do so.
And because people knew that "Outside" it was a cruel and harsh environment, people´s reputation really mattered and people truly had to answer for their own actions, so people were a lot more good to each other than usual.
And they were a lot more appreciative of good company and someone who would help them.
There was so much trust within the good segments of the community, that often people shared their accounts with each other to conquer specific events or to play when one could not pay the subscription, and in 4 years i never heard of a single account theft between these people.
I personally was very lucky because the daughter of one of the "evil hackers" had quite a crush on me, and thus i was free to go around safely thru both worlds and i was able to experience both communities, and it was truly an unforgettable experience.
By doing so i found out that the "evil hackers" were not necessarily all evil and that lots of them just hanged around because they loved the idea of being able to modify the game to the extremes and sook out to make "a game within a game", exploring all the possibilities, while some of the hackers that supposedly were "good" would be found guilty of being the very ones who created the nocive codes to begin with and would spread them between the evil ones, and then they would create the counter-hack so they would look like heroes and be liked by the people and respected by the community.
In the end, when the dust settled everything was fine and the PS saga has one of the most hardcore and diehard fanbases of any online game in history.