I think where most of the arguments comes from is the definitions of those terms.
Why is everyone stuck with the old terms anyways?
GW2 invented their own terms, its called WvWvW PVP, its neither Open world pvp, nor instanced pvp, its called WvWvW pvp something new and something familiar.
Your questions of whether or not its instanced or zoned, lets just call GW2's WvWvW pvp as an 2 week pvp event within an 4 map area zone instance.
See all problems solved!!
In Dark Age of Camelot we called it Realm vs Realm as well
I look at WvWvW as instanced. Reason, it's not connected to the PvE part of GW2 since you load into it. You got 3 servers joining in a battle for 2 weeks. This is like saying Fusang BG in TSW is not instanced, in which I say it is with many of the TSW servers going into one continous battle, however there is no 2 week reset in this game.
Now GW2 doesn't have a open Eve style PvP, because they would be way to extreme for GW2 players, but it also doesn't have WoW's light open world PvP as we seen in the Vanilla WoW.
But different players are going to define instance differently and I can see what they mean to a point.
GW2 to me is more centric around PvE and if you like to roll alot of alts for a different story. I can see players just playing WvW, however for how long?
What we need in games is Player made content and a seamless world with conflict at any time. Seeing real players fight break out in a seamless world is a Dynamic event for me and makes the mmo feel like real world with conflict.
As a old SWG PreCU fan I liked what SWG did, you can PvP anytime you want in the open world and again PvE in it as well depending on the player. I remember so many times chilling in the citys and seeing other players fighting other players whether I was in a cantina or on a mountain and watching players battling one another, good stuff!
Well I for one don't need that and judging by subs alone (of other themeparks and "player-created content games") the vast majority doesn't need that either.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
I look at WvWvW as instanced. Reason, it's not connected to the PvE part of GW2 since you load into it. You got 3 servers joining in a battle for 2 weeks. This is like saying Fusang BG in TSW is not instanced, in which I say it is with many of the TSW servers going into one continous battle, however there is no 2 week reset in this game.
Now GW2 doesn't have a open Eve style PvP, because they would be way to extreme for GW2 players, but it also doesn't have WoW's light open world PvP as we seen in the Vanilla WoW.
But different players are going to define instance differently and I can see what they mean to a point.
GW2 to me is more centric around PvE and if you like to roll alot of alts for a different story. I can see players just playing WvW, however for how long?
What we need in games is Player made content and a seamless world with conflict at any time. Seeing real players fight break out in a seamless world is a Dynamic event for me and makes the mmo feel like real world with conflict.
As a old SWG PreCU fan I liked what SWG did, you can PvP anytime you want in the open world and again PvE in it as well depending on the player. I remember so many times chilling in the citys and seeing other players fighting other players whether I was in a cantina or on a mountain and watching players battling one another, good stuff!
Well I for one don't need that and judging by subs alone (of other themeparks and "player-created content games") the vast majority doesn't need that either.
What we need in games is Player made content and a seamless world with conflict at any time.
Well I for one don't need that and judging by subs alone (of other themeparks and "player-created content games") the vast majority doesn't need that either.
I am kinda at a lost on what you are saying?
I say "we" don't "need" games with player made content, some people might, but not the vast majority.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
What we need in games is Player made content and a seamless world with conflict at any time.
Well I for one don't need that and judging by subs alone (of other themeparks and "player-created content games") the vast majority doesn't need that either.
I am kinda at a lost on what you are saying?
I say "we" don't "need" games with player made content, some people might, but not the vast majority.
I got you now and thanks for reiterating your comment.
I look at WvWvW as instanced. Reason, it's not connected to the PvE part of GW2 since you load into it. You got 3 servers joining in a battle for 2 weeks. This is like saying Fusang BG in TSW is not instanced, in which I say it is with many of the TSW servers going into one continous battle, however there is no 2 week reset in this game.
you're confusing the definition of instance with that of "zone."
you should re-read the first couple of pages of this thread where this is all explained clearly by several people.
its not a new word, it has been in common use for quite some time and there is little subjectivity to its definition. i'm not sure why so many people feel the definition of the word is a matter of personal opinion. it is very interesting that this is occurring.
usually when someone doesn't know what a word means they ask, receive and answer, and then proceed from there.
for some reason i do not understand, with this one word - rather than asking what it means, some people are setting out to create their own strange definitions seemingly on the spot.
Originally posted by Ramanadjinn Originally posted by P4YB4CKI look at WvWvW as instanced. Reason, it's not connected to the PvE part of GW2 since you load into it. You got 3 servers joining in a battle for 2 weeks. This is like saying Fusang BG in TSW is not instanced, in which I say it is with many of the TSW servers going into one continous battle, however there is no 2 week reset in this game.
you're confusing the definition of instance with that of "zone."
you should re-read the first couple of pages of this thread where this is all explained clearly by several people.
its not a new word, it has been in common use for quite some time and there is little subjectivity to its definition. i'm not sure why so many people feel the definition of the word is a matter of personal opinion. it is very interesting that this is occurring.
usually when someone doesn't know what a word means they ask, receive and answer, and then proceed from there.
for some reason i do not understand, with this one word - rather than asking what it means, some people are setting out to create their own strange definitions seemingly on the spot.
I think The_Korrigan explained it well. When something is instanced, it's a copy of existing content and multiple copies can be running at the same time. A dungeon is instanced and there are several copies running at the same time with different people in each copy.
The WvW zone isn't instanced because there is only one copy running at a time. It's not any different than the two continents in WoW. You zone between them, but they aren't considered instances.
As far as Open World PvP, I don't think it would really work even if it existed. From what I can tell, 1v1 combat just takes forever. In WvWvW, unless it was 4v1, nobody died. Players just have too much health and too many escape options.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Let me answer it. No. Let me answer the next fanboy response too No, the world v world map does NOT count as Open World PvP.
Still, it doesn't mean you should hate on the game either. Never know how well you might take their system after all. As far as I see in some regards open pvp would probably make the experience a bit more iffy. Tera Online suffers a bit on pvp servers due to this and they have virtually the same model as Tera, just refined in terms of quests (thoguh steps back in combat, but lets avoid that point XD and focus on quests XD). You NEED factions for open world pvp, or at the very least some way to balance it to not make it just a high level slaughter and grief session of new players.
I look at WvWvW as instanced. Reason, it's not connected to the PvE part of GW2 since you load into it. You got 3 servers joining in a battle for 2 weeks. This is like saying Fusang BG in TSW is not instanced, in which I say it is with many of the TSW servers going into one continous battle, however there is no 2 week reset in this game.
you're confusing the definition of instance with that of "zone."
you should re-read the first couple of pages of this thread where this is all explained clearly by several people.
its not a new word, it has been in common use for quite some time and there is little subjectivity to its definition. i'm not sure why so many people feel the definition of the word is a matter of personal opinion. it is very interesting that this is occurring.
usually when someone doesn't know what a word means they ask, receive and answer, and then proceed from there.
for some reason i do not understand, with this one word - rather than asking what it means, some people are setting out to create their own strange definitions seemingly on the spot.
Believe me, I see what your saying, I honestly do, however there really is no right or wrong on how different players define a games mechanics to themselves. We all talk and percieve through experience on other mmorpg's we have been playing through the decades.
I come from a background of gaming which consists of a free and open seamless worlds in my mmo experience. Then again I don't want to get into a rant about sandbox and themepark mechanics in this thread.
Theres no open world pvp because there are no factions. GW2 has no Open World PvP. All GW2 PvP is instanced.
The closest you'll get to Open World PvP is WvW, which is instanced, but very, very large.
It's not an instance it's a zone, an instance is an area thats is copied many times to faciliate players. There is only one version of wvw per server. WvW is a map it is not an instance.
Believe me, I see what your saying, I honestly do, however there really is no right or wrong on how different players define a games mechanics to themselves. We all talk and percieve through experience on other mmorpg's we have been playing through the decades.
I come from a background of gaming which consists of a free and open seamless worlds in my mmo experience. Then again I don't want to get into a rant about sandbox and themepark mechanics in this thread.
maybe i misspoke, i did not intend to imply there was a right or wrong way to define the word.
my only intent was to point out there are some ways that are better than others.
one way to define the word is useful as far as communication regarding those zones that spawn copies of themselves is concerned.
another way to define the word blurs the distinction between those zones that copy themselves and all other gameworld zones altogether. this leaves the community with no word to describe copied zones or what we traditionally call "instanced" zones like the dungeons and battlegrounds of WOW.
i think i would be happier about scrapping the word "instance" and resigning it to just mean the same thing as "zone" or "map" if we could come to a consensus as a community about what to call those other copied zones instead from now on..
maybe "segregated (self replicating) play areas" or some such thing.. but honestly it would be better for everyone if we just let "instance" mean what it always has and allow it to remain useful in describing those areas uniquely.
Believe me, I see what your saying, I honestly do, however there really is no right or wrong on how different players define a games mechanics to themselves. We all talk and percieve through experience on other mmorpg's we have been playing through the decades.
I come from a background of gaming which consists of a free and open seamless worlds in my mmo experience. Then again I don't want to get into a rant about sandbox and themepark mechanics in this thread.
maybe i misspoke, i did not intend to imply there was a right or wrong way to define the word.
my only intent was to point out there are some ways that are better than others.
one way to define the word is useful as far as communication regarding those zones that spawn copies of themselves is concerned.
another way to define the word blurs the distinction between those zones that copy themselves and all other gameworld zones altogether. this leaves the community with no word to describe copied zones or what we traditionally call "instanced" zones like the dungeons and battlegrounds of WOW.
i think i would be happier about scrapping the word "instance" and resigning it to just mean the same thing as "zone" or "map" if we could come to a consensus as a community about what to call those other copied zones instead from now on..
maybe "segregated (self replicating) play areas" or some such thing.. but honestly it would be better for everyone if we just let "instance" mean what it always has and allow it to remain useful in describing those areas uniquely.
I understand.
I just had to look up what ANET was calling these types of mechanics so I don't misspeak myself.
The player cap in WvW worries me. I'm not sure if I should join a high or medium server etc.
This is my biggest concern by far for launch. I made a post about it on the official forums but it got ignored.
What happens to people like myself that buy GW2 specifically for WvWvW? If you join the wrong server you might not be able to play the game. Especially at prime time and weekends.
I would be willing to make a modest bet that this will be an issue on some servers at launch. There will be some qq threads complaining about not being able to participate in WvWvW.
unfortunately there is no other way around.
There will be queues in WvWvW
But the good thing about that is that after 1-2 months when usually gamehoppers will leave there will be fewer queues
In massively multiplayer online games, an instance is a special area, typically a dungeon, that generates a new copy of the location for each group, or for certain number of players, that enters the area.[1] Instancing, the general term for the use of this technique,[1]
WvW does not generate a new copy of itself whenever a group enters it, therefore it is not instanced, end of story.
I look at WvWvW as instanced. Reason, it's not connected to the PvE part of GW2 since you load into it. You got 3 servers joining in a battle for 2 weeks. This is like saying Fusang BG in TSW is not instanced, in which I say it is with many of the TSW servers going into one continous battle, however there is no 2 week reset in this game.
Now GW2 doesn't have a open Eve style PvP, because they would be way to extreme for GW2 players, but it also doesn't have WoW's light open world PvP as we seen in the Vanilla WoW.
But different players are going to define instance differently and I can see what they mean to a point.
No. "instance" is a word and has a meaning. It's not an opinion.
So WvWvW is not instanced no matter how you look at it.
Originally posted by P4YB4CK
GW2 to me is more centric around PvE and if you like to roll alot of alts for a different story. I can see players just playing WvW, however for how long?
What we need in games is Player made content and a seamless world with conflict at any time. Seeing real players fight break out in a seamless world is a Dynamic event for me and makes the mmo feel like real world with conflict.
As a old SWG PreCU fan I liked what SWG did, you can PvP anytime you want in the open world and again PvE in it as well depending on the player. I remember so many times chilling in the citys and seeing other players fighting other players whether I was in a cantina or on a mountain and watching players battling one another, good stuff!
Now THIS is a legit opinion.
You prefer sandbox mmorpg. That's fine it's your personal taste. Most of the people out there like themeparks mmorpg. Everyone has different preferences.
(btw don't worry about WvWvW it will be played for years just as Daoc was)
But Guild Wars 2 is a themepark mmorpg. A very unusual themepark but still a themepark nonetheless. There is no point in asking Guild Wars 2 to change its genre.
I look at WvWvW as instanced. Reason, it's not connected to the PvE part of GW2 since you load into it. You got 3 servers joining in a battle for 2 weeks. This is like saying Fusang BG in TSW is not instanced, in which I say it is with many of the TSW servers going into one continous battle, however there is no 2 week reset in this game.
Now GW2 doesn't have a open Eve style PvP, because they would be way to extreme for GW2 players, but it also doesn't have WoW's light open world PvP as we seen in the Vanilla WoW.
But different players are going to define instance differently and I can see what they mean to a point.
No. "instance" is a word and has a meaning. It's not an opinion.
So WvWvW is not instanced no matter how you look at it.
Originally posted by P4YB4CK
GW2 to me is more centric around PvE and if you like to roll alot of alts for a different story. I can see players just playing WvW, however for how long?
What we need in games is Player made content and a seamless world with conflict at any time. Seeing real players fight break out in a seamless world is a Dynamic event for me and makes the mmo feel like real world with conflict.
As a old SWG PreCU fan I liked what SWG did, you can PvP anytime you want in the open world and again PvE in it as well depending on the player. I remember so many times chilling in the citys and seeing other players fighting other players whether I was in a cantina or on a mountain and watching players battling one another, good stuff!
Now THIS is a legit opinion.
You prefer sandbox mmorpg. That's fine it's your personal taste. Most of the people out there like themeparks mmorpg. Everyone has different preferences.
(btw don't worry about WvWvW it will be played for years just as Daoc was)
But Guild Wars 2 is a themepark mmorpg. A very unusual themepark but still a themepark nonetheless. There is no point in asking Guild Wars 2 to change its genre.
I am not worried about GW2 WvW being played for years at this point, DAoC RvR came out from a different time in gaming.
GW2 will just have to prove itself through time and we will all know 12 years from now if it is still being played like DAoC.
And I wasn't asking GW2 to change it genre to set the record straight.
Originally posted by Harakiri Why would i buy this game for PvP when it's fought in instanced minigames like in every other generic MMORPG? I can get the same experience in MOBAS.
Because GW2's combat system is the same exact thing as every other MOBA or MMORPG?
If in fact that the combat was spot on with every other MMO then sure, it would be silly to think that anyone would pay for that... but it's a different game with different play styles.
Originally posted by Harakiri Why would i buy this game for PvP when it's fought in instanced minigames like in every other generic MMORPG? I can get the same experience in MOBAS.
The WvWvW PvP is not like a MOBA. Another question to ask is why would you comment on a game without knowing anything about how it works? Yet another question is why would you buy said game, after putting so much effort into not know how the game works?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Comments
In Dark Age of Camelot we called it Realm vs Realm as well
Well I for one don't need that and judging by subs alone (of other themeparks and "player-created content games") the vast majority doesn't need that either.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
I am kinda at a lost on what you are saying?
I say "we" don't "need" games with player made content, some people might, but not the vast majority.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
I got you now and thanks for reiterating your comment.
you're confusing the definition of instance with that of "zone."
you should re-read the first couple of pages of this thread where this is all explained clearly by several people.
its not a new word, it has been in common use for quite some time and there is little subjectivity to its definition. i'm not sure why so many people feel the definition of the word is a matter of personal opinion. it is very interesting that this is occurring.
usually when someone doesn't know what a word means they ask, receive and answer, and then proceed from there.
for some reason i do not understand, with this one word - rather than asking what it means, some people are setting out to create their own strange definitions seemingly on the spot.
you're confusing the definition of instance with that of "zone."
you should re-read the first couple of pages of this thread where this is all explained clearly by several people.
its not a new word, it has been in common use for quite some time and there is little subjectivity to its definition. i'm not sure why so many people feel the definition of the word is a matter of personal opinion. it is very interesting that this is occurring.
usually when someone doesn't know what a word means they ask, receive and answer, and then proceed from there.
for some reason i do not understand, with this one word - rather than asking what it means, some people are setting out to create their own strange definitions seemingly on the spot.
I think The_Korrigan explained it well. When something is instanced, it's a copy of existing content and multiple copies can be running at the same time. A dungeon is instanced and there are several copies running at the same time with different people in each copy.
The WvW zone isn't instanced because there is only one copy running at a time. It's not any different than the two continents in WoW. You zone between them, but they aren't considered instances.
As far as Open World PvP, I don't think it would really work even if it existed. From what I can tell, 1v1 combat just takes forever. In WvWvW, unless it was 4v1, nobody died. Players just have too much health and too many escape options.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Let me answer it. No. Let me answer the next fanboy response too No, the world v world map does NOT count as Open World PvP.
Still, it doesn't mean you should hate on the game either. Never know how well you might take their system after all. As far as I see in some regards open pvp would probably make the experience a bit more iffy. Tera Online suffers a bit on pvp servers due to this and they have virtually the same model as Tera, just refined in terms of quests (thoguh steps back in combat, but lets avoid that point XD and focus on quests XD). You NEED factions for open world pvp, or at the very least some way to balance it to not make it just a high level slaughter and grief session of new players.
Believe me, I see what your saying, I honestly do, however there really is no right or wrong on how different players define a games mechanics to themselves. We all talk and percieve through experience on other mmorpg's we have been playing through the decades.
I come from a background of gaming which consists of a free and open seamless worlds in my mmo experience. Then again I don't want to get into a rant about sandbox and themepark mechanics in this thread.
It's not an instance it's a zone, an instance is an area thats is copied many times to faciliate players. There is only one version of wvw per server. WvW is a map it is not an instance.
maybe i misspoke, i did not intend to imply there was a right or wrong way to define the word.
my only intent was to point out there are some ways that are better than others.
one way to define the word is useful as far as communication regarding those zones that spawn copies of themselves is concerned.
another way to define the word blurs the distinction between those zones that copy themselves and all other gameworld zones altogether. this leaves the community with no word to describe copied zones or what we traditionally call "instanced" zones like the dungeons and battlegrounds of WOW.
i think i would be happier about scrapping the word "instance" and resigning it to just mean the same thing as "zone" or "map" if we could come to a consensus as a community about what to call those other copied zones instead from now on..
maybe "segregated (self replicating) play areas" or some such thing.. but honestly it would be better for everyone if we just let "instance" mean what it always has and allow it to remain useful in describing those areas uniquely.
I understand.
I just had to look up what ANET was calling these types of mechanics so I don't misspeak myself.
I bookmarked this page a while back http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2:_The_Status_Quo
So I can get with the GW2 jargon when entering the game. There is nothing worse calling something by the wrong terminology and getting a Huh? in game.
unfortunately there is no other way around.
There will be queues in WvWvW
But the good thing about that is that after 1-2 months when usually gamehoppers will leave there will be fewer queues
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instance_dungeon
In massively multiplayer online games, an instance is a special area, typically a dungeon, that generates a new copy of the location for each group, or for certain number of players, that enters the area.[1] Instancing, the general term for the use of this technique,[1]
WvW does not generate a new copy of itself whenever a group enters it, therefore it is not instanced, end of story.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
No. "instance" is a word and has a meaning. It's not an opinion.
So WvWvW is not instanced no matter how you look at it.
Now THIS is a legit opinion.You prefer sandbox mmorpg. That's fine it's your personal taste. Most of the people out there like themeparks mmorpg. Everyone has different preferences.
(btw don't worry about WvWvW it will be played for years just as Daoc was)
But Guild Wars 2 is a themepark mmorpg. A very unusual themepark but still a themepark nonetheless. There is no point in asking Guild Wars 2 to change its genre.
I am not worried about GW2 WvW being played for years at this point, DAoC RvR came out from a different time in gaming.
GW2 will just have to prove itself through time and we will all know 12 years from now if it is still being played like DAoC.
And I wasn't asking GW2 to change it genre to set the record straight.
Because GW2's combat system is the same exact thing as every other MOBA or MMORPG?
If in fact that the combat was spot on with every other MMO then sure, it would be silly to think that anyone would pay for that... but it's a different game with different play styles.
The WvWvW PvP is not like a MOBA. Another question to ask is why would you comment on a game without knowing anything about how it works? Yet another question is why would you buy said game, after putting so much effort into not know how the game works?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.