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wildclawwildclaw GothenburgPosts: 46Member

“… it’s never OK for players who spend money to have an unfair advantage over players who spend time."

This is a fairly known quote of Mike O'Brien from his blog post about the cash shop. A quote that I very much agree with. The meaning in my opinion is fairly simple. If you spend a reasonable amount of time compared to someone paying money, you should be able to take on the same encounters with the same amount of difficulty. Anything else would be an unfair advantage.

Unfortunately, I feel that the current GW2 cash shop doesn't fully live up to this promise. Specifically, there are four items that violate this principle and that in my opinion should be removed/replaced. These four items are

  • Armor Bonus
  • Rejuvenation Bonus
  • Speed Bonus
  • Strength Bonus
These items give exclusive temporary gameplay bonuses that are only available via the cashshop or via an amount of grinding that simply can't be classified as reasonable.
 
Some people will argue that the bonuses are small (even though they are pretty much equivalent to no less than two Power of the Aspects stacks). Others will say that it doesn't matter as long as you can't use them in PvP (let's ignore for a moment that they currently actually work in WvW). Personally, I find these arguments weak, because they don't adress the main point, which is that, these bonuses gives a direct unfair advantage that can't be compensated for with reasonable time expenditure, however small and however localized in effect.
 
I generally like what ANet is trying to do with GW2, but I find that above mentioned buffs are on the wrong side of the fence. And that is why I simply can't keep quiet on this issue. As a concerned fan I also find the way the community is trying to sweep this under the rug even more disconcerting. When these buffs are brought up around the gw2 community, the topic is generally immediately derailed by spam about how the rest of the items in the cashshop that don't give an unfair advantage.
 
This is not an attack on the cash shop as a whole, but an attempt to correct a few specific items that simply go too far. I think the speed bonus item should continue to exists, but only outside of combat. Letting people who have less time and more money be able to move around the world more quickly is a good idea. The remaining items should probably simply be removed or replaced with new boosts.
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Comments

  • RaysheRayshe London, ONPosts: 1,284Member

    So far it looks like the only group to live up to their promise of Cash shop being asthetics only is TSW.

     

    oh wait they allow you to buy Quality 1 equipment so you start a little stronger then replace it in 10 minuites of play.

    Because i can.
    I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
    Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  • ionxeelionxeel WarsawPosts: 304Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rayshe

    So far it looks like the only group to live up to their promise of Cash shop being asthetics only is TSW.

     

    oh wait they allow you to buy Quality 1 equipment so you start a little stronger then replace it in 10 minuites of play.

    TSW has a sub.

  • NailzzzNailzzz fullerton, CAPosts: 511Member Uncommon
         Actually OP, I completely agree with your position. I also find some of these item shop buff items a litle disconcerting. the only reason i havent really pressed the issue much myself is that given the cost vs. buff time length, it doesnt seem very worthwhile and i suspect the vast majority of the players will simply ignore these items except as an occasional drop or in game reward/chest drop rather than actually purchasing them from the gem shop. Im hoping such an outcome would self-correct the issue voluntarily from the players side. But we will just have to wait and see how it plays out.
  • cinoscinos LondonPosts: 963Member

    Are you sure these are in the cash shop?

    I have been using it quite extensively during the tests and have never seen these.

  • schrayschray MediasPosts: 18Member

    And where did you find those items in the cash shop? I didn't see them in game and they don't appear in the wiki...

    Trolling?

  • LeetheLeethe Posts: 876Member Uncommon
    I have gotten at least two of those as a drop from a black lion chest. The key was a quest reward.

    There is NO miracle patch.

    95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.

    Hope is not a stategy.
    ______________________________
    "This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common

    the real topic is mystic keys in cash shop

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Chest

    and has been discussed many times in past

     

     

  • EvilGeekEvilGeek londonPosts: 1,225Member Uncommon

    These boost come from mystic chests, keys can be purchased from the cash shop and are also very rare drops, rewards from the chests and as rewards from personal story quests, therefore they are available in game and are not only available via the cash shop. The rarity of them in game is poor therefore the most likely source is via buying mystic keys to unlock the chests that appear fairly often. I'm not a fan of them myself.

    image
  • cinoscinos LondonPosts: 963Member
    Originally posted by Nadia

    the real topic is mystic keys in cash shop

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Chest

    and has been discussed many times in past 

    Ah, that ol'chestnut.

    Op should definitely have been clearer then. He gives the false impression that those boosts are directly for sale in the cash shop. Which isn't true at all.

  • DanitaKusorDanitaKusor AdelaidePosts: 549Member Uncommon

    I also don't recall them being there.

    From what I recall the cash shop boosts were;

    +10% Magic Find

    +50% Experience

    +20% Karma

    +10% Crafting (bonus xp boost)

    Edit: Ah I see the chests. I didn't open enough of those to see any of those particular boosts.  All I got was a crafting one and a magic find one.

    The Enlightened take things Lightly

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    Originally posted by Nadia

    the real topic is mystic keys in cash shop

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Chest

    and has been discussed many times in past

     

    That's an understatement.  OP's argument is misleading.

  • cinoscinos LondonPosts: 963Member
    Originally posted by DanitaKusor

    I also don't recall them being there.

    From what I recall the cash shop boosts were;

    +10% Magic Find

    +50% Experience for mob kills only

    +20% Karma

    +10% Crafting (bonus xp boost)

    Edit: Ah I see the chests. I didn't open enough of those to see any of those particular boosts.  All I got was a crafting one and a magic find one.

    Just had to fix that one, sorry. :p

  • timeraidertimeraider BredaPosts: 568Member Uncommon
    The OP is misleading people .. these things cant be bought in the cashshop.. these things come from mystic chests... and yes, you can buy mystic keys in the cashshop.. BUT you can also get them from mobs, special pve events and special pvp events so the OP is yust misleading everyone by leaving out the whole mechanic
    Main games: Heroes of the Storm, Starcraft 2, Brawlhalla
    Waiting for: Overwatch

  • DanitaKusorDanitaKusor AdelaidePosts: 549Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by cinos
    Originally posted by DanitaKusor

    I also don't recall them being there.

    From what I recall the cash shop boosts were;

    +10% Magic Find

    +50% Experience for mob kills only

    +20% Karma

    +10% Crafting (bonus xp boost)

    Edit: Ah I see the chests. I didn't open enough of those to see any of those particular boosts.  All I got was a crafting one and a magic find one.

    Just had to fix that one, sorry. :p

    I stand corrected.  Is there also a kill streak one as well?  Or is that only from chests too.

    The Enlightened take things Lightly

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,865Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by wildclaw

    “… it’s never OK for players who spend money to have an unfair advantage over players who spend time."

    No, it is very ok.


    Market will decide what people want and are ok with, not you or mr. Nobody Mike O'Brian.

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,924Member Uncommon

    Problem is, a game that prides itself on not having no gear to really provide you with benefits stat wise (in terms of not having that raiding gear jump or anything) that even small little boosts like this act as MORE of a P2W benefit. If it was a normal MMO people might complain a bit but with GW2 considering the fact it claims for balance and leans at evening gear out for it, those stats become MORE powerful. An advantage and still an advantage even if their was better gear you could earn, but the fact GW2 doesn't have gearing up it makes this even more apparent as a P2W scenario, much like the Seige weapons.

     

     

  • wildclawwildclaw GothenburgPosts: 46Member
    Originally posted by timeraider
    The OP is misleading people .. these things cant be bought in the cashshop.. these things come from mystic chests... and yes, you can buy mystic keys in the cashshop.. BUT you can also get them from mobs, special pve events and special pvp events so the OP is yust misleading everyone by leaving out the whole mechanic

    What is misleading with saying "only available via the cashshop or via an amount of grinding that simply can't be classified as reasonable."

    Over 120 hours of playing in the BWE I have gotten a total of 3 keys. That is a 40 hour grinding investment per key. And that is simply not a reasonable time-money exchange.

    Compare the karma boost that gives 50% karma increase for 1 hour. That means I have to grind 30 minutes more if I don't have it. That is a reasonable time-money exchange.

     

  • wildclawwildclaw GothenburgPosts: 46Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami

    Market will decide what people want and are ok with, not you or mr. Nobody Mike O'Brian.

    I don't know if you are a troll, being sarcastic, or simply don't realize that you just called the CEO of ArenaNet a nobody.

  • wildclawwildclaw GothenburgPosts: 46Member
    Originally posted by Nailzzz
         Actually OP, I completely agree with your position. I also find some of these item shop buff items a litle disconcerting. the only reason i havent really pressed the issue much myself is that given the cost vs. buff time length, it doesnt seem very worthwhile and i suspect the vast majority of the players will simply ignore these items except as an occasional drop or in game reward/chest drop rather than actually purchasing them from the gem shop. Im hoping such an outcome would self-correct the issue voluntarily from the players side. But we will just have to wait and see how it plays out.

    I am hoping that as well. But those four items really do give me a bad taste in the mouth.

  • ConnmacartConnmacart OsloPosts: 681Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by wildclaw
    Originally posted by timeraider
    The OP is misleading people .. these things cant be bought in the cashshop.. these things come from mystic chests... and yes, you can buy mystic keys in the cashshop.. BUT you can also get them from mobs, special pve events and special pvp events so the OP is yust misleading everyone by leaving out the whole mechanic

    What is misleading with saying "only available via the cashshop or via an amount of grinding that simply can't be classified as reasonable."

    Over 120 hours of playing in the BWE I have gotten a total of 3 keys. That is a 40 hour grinding investment per key. And that is simply not a reasonable time-money exchange.

    Compare the karma boost that gives 50% karma increase for 1 hour. That means I have to grind 30 minutes more if I don't have it. That is a reasonable time-money exchange.

     

    It's misleading because they are not available in the CS. 

  • wildclawwildclaw GothenburgPosts: 46Member
    Originally posted by cinos

    Op should definitely have been clearer then. He gives the false impression that those boosts are directly for sale in the cash shop. Which isn't true at all.

    Sorry about that. It wasn't my intention at all. However, having played a lot of PvE in the BWEs, I can say that the black lion chests drop a lot, and the keys are almost absent outside a personal story quest reward. Which for me makes the contents of the black lion chests very much cash shop items.

    I could be wrong, and the keys could become much more common at higher levels. And in that case I'll admit that i am wrong. I am just talking from what I have seen so far.

  • AmjocoAmjoco Layton, UTPosts: 4,778Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by wildclaw
    Originally posted by Nailzzz
         Actually OP, I completely agree with your position. I also find some of these item shop buff items a litle disconcerting. the only reason i havent really pressed the issue much myself is that given the cost vs. buff time length, it doesnt seem very worthwhile and i suspect the vast majority of the players will simply ignore these items except as an occasional drop or in game reward/chest drop rather than actually purchasing them from the gem shop. Im hoping such an outcome would self-correct the issue voluntarily from the players side. But we will just have to wait and see how it plays out.

    I am hoping that as well. But those four items really do give me a bad taste in the mouth.

    Read through the thread and it might taste a bit more like icecream.

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • wildclawwildclaw GothenburgPosts: 46Member
    Originally posted by timeraider
    The OP is misleading people .. these things cant be bought in the cashshop.. these things come from mystic chests... and yes, you can buy mystic keys in the cashshop.. BUT you can also get them from mobs, special pve events and special pvp events so the OP is yust misleading everyone by leaving out the whole mechanic

    You are the one misleading people. You can get the key from one quest in your personal storyline. Other than that, you can expect to see one drop perhaps once every 30-50 hours.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,865Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by wildclawyou just called the CEO of ArenaNet a nobody.

    And what is wrong with that?

    It is not up to him to speak for others. If there is a demand for game play affecting items, the world won't stop spinning because O'Brian thinks there should be none...

    He can either be good businessman and exploit the demand or do whatever he wish but making similar generalized, stupid statements is just that...stupid.

    Note: After I re-read my posts, I realized it may be seem as targeted against O'Brain, which would be a false impression.

    What I was aiming at is that he has no word on what people want, he is no authority in this regard.

    And then, taking quotes of his words out of context and present them as a base for generalized statements is misleading, incorrect and stupid.

  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,970Member Uncommon

    I've only read the first post so I dunno if it's already been said but all those bonuses can be gained by buying food from vendors, from the tradepost or from crafting them yourself using cooking. Including XP ones. Start a human, go to the nearest vendor once in the main world... they have food items with a stat bonus and XP buff on them for 12c each. That's right from the start. I'm sure all races have some nearby.

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