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5 reasons you may not Like GW2 (as read by a GW2 Fanboi)

PurgatusPurgatus Member Posts: 342

So, anyone familiar with my name around these parts knows that I am a die-hard fan of GW2. I think its the best MMO I've ever played. But no game is completely without problems, and no game can appeal to everyone. I've seen a lot of vitriolic threads about what GW2 does wrong, or how GW2 sucks because it lacks feature X or Y. I thought I would post some of the reasons I feel some players will not like GW2 from the opposite perspective.

So without further Delay...(and In no particular order)

 

Reason #1 - No Open World PvP

I've always hated OPvP myself as I see it as the refuge of gankers. And I HATE gankers. I don't mind ambushing and the like, its the fighting another player 20 levels below you that I hate. It's sad and pathetic.

However, there is one glorious thing that OPvP offers, and that is the uncertainty of the next confrontation. Not knowing when a fight could happen and could die at any minute is pretty awesome. GW2 does not really have that. When you PvP, its because you chose to and that takes something away from the experience.

 

Reason #2 - Sense of progression

GW2 does a lot of strange things with progression. Firstly, its a linear progression. getting from 15 to 16 will take the same amount of time as getting from 79 to 80. This means some players are going to blaze to 80 in no time flat. Level in GW2 is not so much about getting that next skill or upgrade as it is about getting acess to more and more content. When you are level 80, the whole world becomes playable due to the down-scaleing of content.

The other factor is no gear grinding, or at least, no heavy grinding. Stats remain easy to get. You will be grinding instead for comsetics.

Other games pace this out so that you feel accomplished in reaching a new level of power. Your amount of strength is determined more by how much time you put into the game than how familiar you are with the games systems (though that knowledge certainly doesnt hurt!) Some players want to know that if they have been playing for years, they can crush the newest players. They paid more after all! In GW2, a new player could absolutly destroy you if they know what they are doing when playing sPvP for example.

Without a much bigger mechanical advantage for progression, many players will feel like they are just spinning in circles never making any progress.

 

Reason #3 - No Traditional Endgame

MMO's have taught us that the best content is at the end when all the characters tools are complete. They have gotten the last few super bad ass abilities, and great gear, and are now ready to take on the REALLY challanging content. This requires teamwork and time for the biggest of fights.

GW2 takes those experiences and doles them out over the course of the game. You get acces to your skills early on, and the big world event DE's feel much like the big raids (with less co-ordination.)

Tougher content is certainly towards the end, with the continent of Orr, but the real benefit of being max level is that you can go to any area and play that content.

Many players will get to the end of the game and really only have the dungeons to mess with as they do not wish to go to low level content, especially after doing such hugely heroic and epic things towards the end of the game, and get very bored of the lack of content.

 

Reason #4 - Some Traditional Roles are Gone

With the removal of the so called "Holy Trinity" two very traditional roles are gone. The Tank and the Healer. Anet didnt like the playstyles they were based on, but that doesnt mean YOU dont. I know plenty of gamers that like to heal. Its important, easy to see your contribution, and very low dexerity. Tanking is a lot more complicated, but the point is you will not be able to do either role anymore (Im sure some will debate it).

There is no aggro powers in the game and Dungeon bosses hit exremly hard so traditional tanking is gone. You are not capable of keeping a teamate alive under the barrage of a boss for an extended period of time by focusing all heals on him anymore so traditional healing is gone.

I highly advise you look at why you like those roles. You may find you can still fufill them in GW2, but if you are a hard core Tank or Healer and love that gameplay style, GW2 will disappoint you.

 

Reason #5 - Cash Shop

I have seen enough implementations of cash shops in games to say that I think GW2's implementation looks to be ok. Nevertheless, paying for bag slots, character slots, xp boosts, etc. will feel like extorting money for some players. If you really hate cash shops in any form, this will not be any different.

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Comments

  • AerowynAerowyn Member Posts: 7,928
    got videos in my sig link that cover most those topics as well

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • BadSpockBadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 7,979

    I think GW2 has those things just in a different way than people are used to or can narrowly define.

    I mean, yes it doesn't have open world PvP in the strictest of senses, but it has WvW.

    It doesn't have a traditional gear/grind sense of progression, but it still has levels and stats and gear and character progression it just isn't as sharp of a curve and plateus out at max level quickly.

    It doesn't have traditional "end-game" content in terms of raids, but there are dungeons and "hard mode" dungeons and there is "raiding" per say, it is just 100% open world non-instanced and no specific guild or group will ever be able to "lock out" another group or guild by "tagging" an open world boss first.

    It doesn't have hard/locked roles but it does have specializations via weapon/gear/trait choice and play style.

    It does have a cash shop, but it isn't your typical F2P cash shop because of the Buy to Play model (60$ box price).

    So I think if THESE are the reasons people don't like GW2, they may be suprised to find that if they play the game, take the time to do the research and find what GW2 DOES have, they may be suprised.

     

  • PurgatusPurgatus Member Posts: 342
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    got videos in my sig link that cover most those topics as well

    And I highly reccomend people check that thread out for awnsers.

    This thread was intended to point out the potential negative rather than give a balanced view of a system.

  • PurgatusPurgatus Member Posts: 342
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    I think GW2 has those things just in a different way than people are used to or can narrowly define.

    I mean, yes it doesn't have open world PvP in the strictest of senses, but it has WvW.

    It doesn't have a traditional gear/grind sense of progression, but it still has levels and stats and gear and character progression it just isn't as sharp of a curve and plateus out at max level quickly.

    It doesn't have traditional "end-game" content in terms of raids, but there are dungeons and "hard mode" dungeons and there is "raiding" per say, it is just 100% open world non-instanced and no specific guild or group will ever be able to "lock out" another group or guild by "tagging" an open world boss first.

     

    I agree.

    This game approaches things from a different (but not nessecariy bad) direction. The fact remains that those differences will not be what some people want, and will be put off by their exclusion.

    Choosing to be in PvP has an impact on the system. A fairly profound one. I like it as is, but some really want the sense of paranoia. I'm just pointing out, if thats the key feeling you are looking for, you will be disappointed.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 7,979
    Originally posted by Purgatus

    I agree.

    This game approaches things from a different (but not nessecariy bad) direction. The fact remains that those differences will not be what some people want, and will be put off by their exclusion.

    Exactly.

    Ignorance is the enemy of wisdom though, and the wise man would not stop at "OK this game doesn't have exactly what I am looking for."

    The wise man would then ask, "OK what does this game have?"

    They may be enlightened.

     

  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk Member RarePosts: 1,571

    OP, I know you don't really believe those arguments because if you did you wouldn't be the GW2 fan you say you are. I know people make those same tired arguments over anf over but really, for me anyway, they explain why GW2 will be better than the current crop of MMO's.

     

    The case can be made either way and it all comes down to personal preferrence. There's no right and wrong, either you like GW2 or you don't, no harm either way. For me, I'll be happier playing GW2 the way it is. For those that agree with those arguments and probably won't be seen playing GW2, enjoy the games you currently play and adios amigos.

  • MagnetiaMagnetia Member UncommonPosts: 1,015

    Good writeup as a bit of a warning. As a fan I welcome your objectivity!

    Critical, not hateful. This is a good read for people who are looking for or expecting a specific something that gw2 just won't offer. 

    They did talk about the possibilty of dueling though. I am interested in how/if they implement that. 

    Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan Member RarePosts: 3,455

    Reason #6:

    You are unable to play games without having a gear advantage. You can't win at PvPwithout having 2500 more resilience than your enemy. You can't tackle harder PvE content without outgearing it and only having to roll your face on your keyboard. Then, you may not enjoy GW2.

    EDIT: my bad, I just noticed you talked about this in your reason #2 :)

    That's what I get from reading forums while cooking dinner =P

    Respect, walk, what did you say?
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    - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
    Yes, they are back !

  • TdogSkalTdogSkal Member UncommonPosts: 1,244
    Any place we can read up on the cash shop and what they think they are going to put in it?

    Sooner or Later

  • MardukkMardukk Member RarePosts: 2,222

    I haven't done much research on the character building that you will do as you level.  I played beta to lvl 10 and wasn't completely clear on the skills/traits stuff.  I assume those are the big motivating factor to level (other than PvP and I don't really care about that).  Assuming you continue to build your character all the way to the level max that sounds fine and won't be a problem.  Although if you have everything before lvl 80 that could be a problem.

     

    I would add the cartoon fantasy setting to the list of possible dislikes for many people.  If you are burnt out on WoW this setting isn't likely to be different enough to not be annoying (excluding lore of course).

     

     

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838
    Originally posted by Purgatus

    So, anyone familiar with my name around these parts knows that I am a die-hard fan of GW2. I think its the best MMO I've ever played. But no game is completely without problems, and no game can appeal to everyone. I've seen a lot of vitriolic threads about what GW2 does wrong, or how GW2 sucks because it lacks feature X or Y. I thought I would post some of the reasons I feel some players will not like GW2 from the opposite perspective.

    So without further Delay...(and In no particular order)

     

    Reason #1 - No Open World PvP

    Reason #2 - Sense of progression

    Reason #3 - No Traditional Endgame

    Reason #4 - Some Traditional Roles are Gone

    Reason #5 - Cash Shop

     

    Spot on OP these are the reasons. Good eye.

    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • NadiaNadia Member UncommonPosts: 11,798
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
    Any place we can read up on the cash shop and what they think they are going to put in it?

    http://www.arena.net/blog/mike-obrien-on-microtransactions-in-guild-wars-2

    short answer: they dont know the specifics but blog talks about their philosophy on it

  • Serin101Serin101 Member Posts: 103
    Totalbiscuit's look at the cash shop in the last beta also looked over a lot of the items, and frankly the only 'boost' that felt controversial was the magic find boost. The other boost don't really give that big of an increase exp-wise because of how the game works.
  • VanadromArdaVanadromArda Member Posts: 445
    Originally posted by Purgatus

    Reason #1 - No Open World PvP

    I've always hated OPvP myself as I see it as the refuge of gankers. And I HATE gankers. I don't mind ambushing and the like, its the fighting another player 20 levels below you that I hate. It's sad and pathetic.

    However, there is one glorious thing that OPvP offers, and that is the uncertainty of the next confrontation. Not knowing when a fight could happen and could die at any minute is pretty awesome. GW2 does not really have that. When you PvP, its because you chose to and that takes something away from the experience.

     

    I just wanna point out that there IS Open World PVP. ArenaNet created a seperate MMO called The Mists which houses it, a lot of people call it WvW. Roughly the size of DC Universe Online at launch, The Mists is a sizable collection of zones with its own ruleset. The PvE game Tyria does not have Open World PVP, yet Guild Wars 2 as a game still does have Open World PVP.

  • PoufPouf Member Posts: 341

    I'm someone who feels like i'll miss healing, not taking, but i kinda liked to be able to save my partners from death in pvp, instead of just being one other person trying to destroy..

     

    So yea..

  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    1. Not an open world. They did a fantastic job making the zones but one without portals between just seems different.

    2. Crafting mechanic. The recipe system is great but if your going to allow one to level strictly by crating the process should be more in depth.

    3. Item skinning. I know you can use stones to do this, acquired in game and on CS but I'd rather pay a fee to open cosmetic slots. Makes the process a lot more simple.

    4. Difficulty. They said there was a bug in BWE3 that made it too easy but until I play it I won't know. Maybe tonight if I'm lucky :) Also, I wish level scaling included worn stats as well as base. Less of an issue depending on above.
  • keithiankeithian Member UncommonPosts: 3,191
    Personally most of these are reasons why I'm excited about the game...something different that isn't all about things I hate such as gear grinds and watching everyone race to the end ignoring the meat of the game which never makes sense to me. Open world PVP has failed in just about every game that implements it..like DarkFall..where it only appeals to those that have some issues in real life and need to take it out in the game for some ganking feeling of superiority. Racing to end game to me is like buying a book to read the last chapter. Never will get it. Waste of money to me. I like the journey which is why I'm loving Skyrim right now. 

    There Is Always Hope!

  • VanadromArdaVanadromArda Member Posts: 445

    Partner healing still exists in Guild Wars 2, just the way to do is really different.

    For instance, if you wanna heal and ally as an Elementalist you have some options. Lets say your friend is within range and is hurting bad!

    With Arcane Evasion on, you can switch to Water Attunement and dodge toward your ally. By landing on your alley, you will produce a heal at his feet. Follow up by using your Glyph of Harmony -- you will share the Regeneration with your ally. If you spected Cantrips of Glyphs to share more Regeneration, pop additional utility to increase the heal and Regeneration duration.

    Pop into Earth to give him/her Protection, then quickly switch back to Water again to produce another heal.

    If you are using dagger, target your ally with Cone of Cold to give 2000+ heal.

  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    Pouf

    You may consider an Elementalist or Guardian. Both have builds for helping those around you. I'm sure the other professions do as well I just haven't played them.
  • AnnwynAnnwyn Member UncommonPosts: 2,854

    Yes, GW2 is a bit different from your typical MMORPG, but it's not different enough. That's why many won't like GW2.  ( I can already feel the glare of certain members typing furiously as they've read this).

     

    By not different enough, I mean that, while the format is different, the content is the same. Yes, instead of having NPCs with a " ! " above their heads, everything is more "dynamic", the content of the dynamic event isn't actually all that different from the quests you'd get from an NPC. I guess you have a progression bar instead of a clear amount of kill/fetch/colllect numbers, but really, it's not something I'd consider to be different enough to interest players looking for something that's really different. At best they'll enjoy the honeymoon phase, but come back to reality quickly, as was the case for me. 

    The first time's really fun. Just walking around and suddenly an event appears. It's fun, it's somewhat unexpected, you've got all these players joining in. Event's over, you resume to your activity and eventually another event pops out nearby. You clear it, everything's fun. But the pattern becomes increasingly more obvious, repetition starts to kick in, and considering we've done these very same type of quests/objectives for years and years already (Defend this NPC and kill the monsters along the way, there's an invasion  so go kill them!, etc) the novelty wears off very quickly and what initially seemed to be different really doesn't look all that different already.

    The combat is basically the same as your typical MMORPG. You're still getting shot by heat-seeking projectiles until the end of he Earth. Individually, the skills are interesting, it's fun to play with the various gimmicks, but the very limiting nature of the Weapon Skill system breaks the fun and feels restricting. From my personal experience, I've always found only 2-3 of the skills I liked for each group of weapons, and of course they can't be changed. Yes you can change your non-weapon skills at will (provided you spent points in them) but having 5 of your "main" skills locked by your choice of weapon was quite a downer for me, especially when you only like half of them, but the weapons are necessary for the way you want to play. In that regard, I much preferred GW1's take on the skill system even though you couldn't change them unless you were in town.

    I also felt restricted a lot in my many attempts at explorations. I had somewhat high expectations on this regard in particular, especially given players feedback. I'd see some areas that would catch my eyes and I wanted to check them out. I'd reach the area, try to climb from somewhere that seemed possible to climb only to be prevented by the blocky textures they have. I call them blocky textures because I'm not entirely sure how to call them, but it's when there's an invisible part that goes beyond the texture and jumping on that texture may push you on the side of make you appear as if you're floating in the air. In GW2's case it was mostly the former.  That tree with floating parts in the Sylvari area (forgot the name of the tree) is a great example of this, you can definitively climb it, and I've done it, but the blocky textures are soooo freaking annoying that it really takes out from the game and exploration.

     

     

    These are the reasons why I think many players might not like what GW2 offers, even if it's a genre they like.

     

  • PurgatusPurgatus Member Posts: 342
    Originally posted by TemperHoof
    Originally posted by Purgatus

    Reason #1 - No Open World PvP

    I've always hated OPvP myself as I see it as the refuge of gankers. And I HATE gankers. I don't mind ambushing and the like, its the fighting another player 20 levels below you that I hate. It's sad and pathetic.

    However, there is one glorious thing that OPvP offers, and that is the uncertainty of the next confrontation. Not knowing when a fight could happen and could die at any minute is pretty awesome. GW2 does not really have that. When you PvP, its because you chose to and that takes something away from the experience.

     

    I just wanna point out that there IS Open World PVP. ArenaNet created a seperate MMO called The Mists which houses it, a lot of people call it WvW. Roughly the size of DC Universe Online at launch, The Mists is a sizable collection of zones with its own ruleset. The PvE game Tyria does not have Open World PVP, yet Guild Wars 2 as a game still does have Open World PVP.

    The difference between OPvP and the mists is choice. If you go to the mists, its because you made a conscious chioce. In OPvP, you could be completeing a quest and a rival player could kill you when you did not intend to do any PvP. This will attract some, and repel others. Weither you like it or not, the chioce is yours.

  • MahavishnuMahavishnu Member Posts: 336

    This is one of the very few threads around here that critizises GW2 in a sensible way. You sum up, what some players may not like and you make arguments, instead of showing ignorance and trolling comunity.

    However, you forgot 2 things:

    Reason #6 - No mounts

    Mounts are a typical feature of almost all MMOs, so of course many players will miss to ride around on their steeds. Not only does it add something to the atmosphere, but it also is a opportunity to accomplish something and to indivudualize your character. On many videos it looks really awkward to see them running around all the time.

     

    Reason #7 - No decent crafting

    Not the most popular feature, but there are still some players to whom crafting is the most important aspect of an MMO. And they like it to be challenging, complicated and limitless. Look at Vanguard, the process of crafting is a whole mini-game and you can produce almost everything.

    Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need.

  • PurgatusPurgatus Member Posts: 342
    Originally posted by MadnessRealm

    Yes, GW2 is a bit different from your typical MMORPG, but it's not different enough. That's why many won't like GW2.  ( I can already feel the glare of certain members typing furiously as they've read this).

     

    By not different enough, I mean that, while the format is different, the content is the same. Yes, instead of having NPCs with a " ! " above their heads, everything is more "dynamic", the content of the dynamic event isn't actually all that different from the quests you'd get from an NPC. I guess you have a progression bar instead of a clear amount of kill/fetch/colllect numbers, but really, it's not something I'd consider to be different enough to interest players looking for something that's really different. At best they'll enjoy the honeymoon phase, but come back to reality quickly, as was the case for me. 

    The first time's really fun. Just walking around and suddenly an event appears. It's fun, it's somewhat unexpected, you've got all these players joining in. Event's over, you resume to your activity and eventually another event pops out nearby. You clear it, everything's fun. But the pattern becomes increasingly more obvious, repetition starts to kick in, and considering we've done these very same type of quests/objectives for years and years already (Defend this NPC and kill the monsters along the way, there's an invasion  so go kill them!, etc) the novelty wears off very quickly and what initially seemed to be different really doesn't look all that different already.

    The combat is basically the same as your typical MMORPG. You're still getting shot by heat-seeking projectiles until the end of he Earth. Individually, the skills are interesting, it's fun to play with the various gimmicks, but the very limiting nature of the Weapon Skill system breaks the fun and feels restricting. From my personal experience, I've always found only 2-3 of the skills I liked for each group of weapons, and of course they can't be changed. Yes you can change your non-weapon skills at will (provided you spent points in them) but having 5 of your "main" skills locked by your choice of weapon was quite a downer for me, especially when you only like half of them, but the weapons are necessary for the way you want to play. In that regard, I much preferred GW1's take on the skill system even though you couldn't change them unless you were in town.

    I also felt restricted a lot in my many attempts at explorations. I had somewhat high expectations on this regard in particular, especially given players feedback. I'd see some areas that would catch my eyes and I wanted to check them out. I'd reach the area, try to climb from somewhere that seemed possible to climb only to be prevented by the blocky textures they have. I call them blocky textures because I'm not entirely sure how to call them, but it's when there's an invisible part that goes beyond the texture and jumping on that texture may push you on the side of make you appear as if you're floating in the air. In GW2's case it was mostly the former.  That tree with floating parts in the Sylvari area (forgot the name of the tree) is a great example of this, you can definitively climb it, and I've done it, but the blocky textures are soooo freaking annoying that it really takes out from the game and exploration.

     

     

    These are the reasons why I think many players might not like what GW2 offers, even if it's a genre they like.

     

    Hugely subjective posts like this are why I made this thread. You offer nothing substanative in here. Things like "not different enough" (I happen to think you just plain wrong) is far too subjective for it to be of value to the majority of readers. I concentrated specifically on things I could point to a yes its there, or no its not, like OPvP.

  • NailzzzNailzzz Member UncommonPosts: 515
    Originally posted by Mardukk

    I haven't done much research on the character building that you will do as you level.  I played beta to lvl 10 and wasn't completely clear on the skills/traits stuff.  I assume those are the big motivating factor to level (other than PvP and I don't really care about that).  Assuming you continue to build your character all the way to the level max that sounds fine and won't be a problem.  Although if you have everything before lvl 80 that could be a problem.

     

    I would add the cartoon fantasy setting to the list of possible dislikes for many people.  If you are burnt out on WoW this setting isn't likely to be different enough to not be annoying (excluding lore of course).

     

     

         This part always gets me. I always see this complaint about "cartoony graphics" and it just confuses me. Ironically i often hear it from people who played WoW. For me WoW's graphics being as insanely cartoony as they are is part of why i didnt like it. Instead i chose to play GW1 which imo had far better looking graphics that didnt look nearly as cartoony. GW2 is a bit of a graphic upgrade from GW1 whie still using the same style. Sort of a high fantasy painting. I dont know what games these people are playing but i dont see alot of mmo's that actually look less cartoony than GW2. I suppose perhaps TSW would be an example of a less "cartoony" looking game relatively speaking, but it is part of a pretty short list. Maybe archage though the charachter models dont seem like a huge departure from GW2's (just a bit more technically detailed). What are people comparing this game to with this judgement?

         Which brings up another thing ive noticed about the critics. They often seem to tear down details about GW2's systems critically despite that they seem to themselves be playing a game that doesnt do any of these things in any better way (the quest/dynamic event debates come to mind). I dont understand why people insist upon comparing GW2 negatively to games that dont actually seem to exist anywhere but in the critics head. 

  • lovehina21lovehina21 Member UncommonPosts: 56

    I will be playing this game as its only 50 bucks and it wil give me a coulpe months of fun.

     

    However i agree with the OP and all 5 reasons he points out. (no need to repeat them)

    I would like to add that with WvW being endless there is also "no sense of acomplishment"

    the whole point of fighting a battle is to win it.  but if u fight and fight and it just never ends... its kinda like zombies in COD.  its fun to see how far u can get but eventually it becomes boring cuz u cant win.

    My thoughts,

    thx!

    = Scent to bed =

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