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A reminder to those who claim F2P means failure: F2P is NOT Free

UnleadedRevUnleadedRev Boston, MAPosts: 387Member Uncommon

When a game goes F2P its not because the game is a failure, it is due to the following reasons:

1) The monthly subscription model is dead.

It is dead for 2 reasons - MMOs make more money with F2P than subscriptions and players are drawm to F2P more than subscriptions because they "think" its free.

2) Ask any Age of Conan or Lord of the Rings Online player (who has leveled to cap, raided, and quested to cap) how much they have spent on each game as a subscription versus as F2P and you will be shocked to see that F2P at the very least caused these players to exceed a yearly subscription amount.

3) F2P increased player pop in both AoC and LOTRO, albiet AoCs pop is going down for a different reason - poor expansions and a poor PvP game design that leaves slow poke players in the dust or players that PvE'd to cap without PvPing tokens (sound familiar SWTOR?).

F2P will help SWTOR just as it did AoC, but unless SWTOR makes some design overhauls it will eventually suffer. I cannot tell you how many players did not want to pvP in AoC and SWTOR until they hit level 50, and then found they were HOSED.

Yes, we all know WoW is declining in Population, but its numbers are still very successful and the game has already paid for itself and makes huge profits for Blizzard. ATM it does not make sense for WoW to go F2P.

In conclusion, the sooner players realize that F2P is not an admission of failure but the new standard, the sooner these players will understand the MMO world today...and its a bleak one. For with F2P your initial elation of "hey this games free"! No asking mommy and daddy for a credit card; will soon become dispair when you see that you cannot truly enjoy the full game without forking over MONEY...much more money.

Keep an eye on Guild Wars 2, the only truly "free" MMO (not excluding purchase price), which contrary to Guild Wars 1, will have microtransactions.....

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Comments

  • lightingbirdlightingbird Saint Louis, MOPosts: 103Member

    Your wrong about several things regarding SWTOR. 

    It is not making huge profits.  They actually had several laysoff over it and even the stockholders are concerned at server decline in the game.  It was a failure.  Everyone should know that by now. 

     

    Your somewhat right about F2p but when games are clearly not doing well, they go F2P as an attempt to increase or get profits  via another model.  Basic simple business move to get profits when things are looking bad.  You don't think that somewhat means its failing?  Logical people do. 

    image

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member
    Since I "hate" F2P.  I'll be like anyone on this forum, diss anything I don't like.  So obviously F2P means failure.
  • rdrakkenrdrakken Gotham, FLPosts: 426Member
    Originally posted by UnleadedRev

    When a game goes F2P its not because the game is a failure, it is due to the following reasons:

     NO FAILURE GAME HAS GONE F2P.

    They have all gone PAYTRAP.

    Stop calling PAYTRAPS F2P.

    A F2P game is 100% free with a microtransaction shop for novelty items and buffs. Not one single paytrap has ever made more money than the best F2Ps...so not only are the a Subscription failure, they are a F2P failure.

  • lightingbirdlightingbird Saint Louis, MOPosts: 103Member
    Originally posted by rdrakken
    Originally posted by UnleadedRev

    When a game goes F2P its not because the game is a failure, it is due to the following reasons:

     NO FAILURE GAME HAS GONE F2P.

    They have all gone PAYTRAP.

    Stop calling PAYTRAPS F2P.

    A F2P game is 100% free with a microtransaction shop for novelty items and buffs. Not one single paytrap has ever made more money than the best F2Ps...so not only are the a Subscription failure, they are a F2P failure.

    Haha paytrap.

    image

  • eye_meye_m Notta Chance, ABPosts: 3,133Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rdrakken
    Originally posted by UnleadedRev

    When a game goes F2P its not because the game is a failure, it is due to the following reasons:

     NO FAILURE GAME HAS GONE F2P.

    They have all gone PAYTRAP.

    Stop calling PAYTRAPS F2P.

    A F2P game is 100% free with a microtransaction shop for novelty items and buffs. Not one single paytrap has ever made more money than the best F2Ps...so not only are the a Subscription failure, they are a F2P failure.

    Aion is F2P and it's not your "Paytrap"

    I played AoC to max level and then started up my sub and raided for a bit. That means I saved several months off P2P by using the F2P component.

    So you are wrong in your first two statements. Care to try again?

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  • rdrakkenrdrakken Gotham, FLPosts: 426Member
    Originally posted by eyelolled
    Originally posted by rdrakken
    Originally posted by UnleadedRev

    When a game goes F2P its not because the game is a failure, it is due to the following reasons:

     NO FAILURE GAME HAS GONE F2P.

    They have all gone PAYTRAP.

    Stop calling PAYTRAPS F2P.

    A F2P game is 100% free with a microtransaction shop for novelty items and buffs. Not one single paytrap has ever made more money than the best F2Ps...so not only are the a Subscription failure, they are a F2P failure.

    Aion is F2P and it's not your "Paytrap"

    I played AoC to max level and then started up my sub and raided for a bit. That means I saved several months off P2P by using the F2P component.

    So you are wrong in your first two statements. Care to try again?

     Care to try again?

    Free to Play

  • RictisRictis UnknownPosts: 1,231Member Uncommon

    So, F2P does mean Free To Play. It does not mean Free To Play without restriction. There is a difference here, because your title is a little misleading.

    I can play as long as I want without paying anything in the CS on a F2P game. I don't have to buy any of the shortcuts. It is up to the consumer to decide to pay more money to the company. What most people fail to realize is, once you pay money for a F2P game it is now B2P... the model changes as soon as you shell out cash. As long as you use the free version of the game it is F2P. Otherwise it would be false advertising heh.

  • PsychowPsychow SF Giants Territory, CAPosts: 1,784Member
    Originally posted by rdrakken
    Originally posted by eyelolled
    Originally posted by rdrakken
    Originally posted by UnleadedRev

    When a game goes F2P its not because the game is a failure, it is due to the following reasons:

     NO FAILURE GAME HAS GONE F2P.

    They have all gone PAYTRAP.

    Stop calling PAYTRAPS F2P.

    A F2P game is 100% free with a microtransaction shop for novelty items and buffs. Not one single paytrap has ever made more money than the best F2Ps...so not only are the a Subscription failure, they are a F2P failure.

    Aion is F2P and it's not your "Paytrap"

    I played AoC to max level and then started up my sub and raided for a bit. That means I saved several months off P2P by using the F2P component.

    So you are wrong in your first two statements. Care to try again?

     Care to try again?

    Free to Play

    One more time only this time mean it!! Go!

  • rdrakkenrdrakken Gotham, FLPosts: 426Member
    Originally posted by Wakygreek

    So, F2P does mean Free To Play. It does not mean Free To Play without restriction. There is a difference here, because your title is a little misleading.

    Free 2 play means the game is free to play, not that part of the game is free to play and the rest is locked to subscriptions.

    Subscribe to unlock = paytrap

    Free to play means that the GAME IS FREE.

  • RictisRictis UnknownPosts: 1,231Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rdrakken
    Originally posted by Wakygreek

    So, F2P does mean Free To Play. It does not mean Free To Play without restriction. There is a difference here, because your title is a little misleading.

    Free 2 play means the game is free to play, not that part of the game is free to play and the rest is locked to subscriptions.

    Subscribe to unlock = paytrap

    Free to play means that the GAME IS FREE.

     F2P does not mean the entire game is FREE. If you spend the time to read each companies caveat (the little writing that is sometimes super small) they usually tell you how much of the game is free. Some companies are better about this than others. You are not REQUIRED to pay money for a f2p game. You can play the game as much as you want free of purchase up until the point where the company "persuades" you to spend on the cash shop. The only game that does not persuade you strongly of recent f2p model change is Aion.

  • KiljaedenasKiljaedenas New Westminster, BCPosts: 468Member
    Originally posted by UnleadedRev

    When a game goes F2P its not because the game is a failure...*snip*

    Oh really?

    Virtually every MMO game I have ever played or heard of that is F2P or switched to F2P from a different pay model has majorly sucked in some way and was bleeding players. That history in itself has built the reputation that a game going F2P is an indication that it is bombing and that is a last-ditch effort from the producers to get some kind of income out of it. Of course there may be the odd exception here and there, but they are very rare compared to the number of ones that bombed.

     

    Trust me, the subscription model is NOT dead, it's just that many games that try it don't do it properly. Take Eve Online as an example, it's a full subscription model and still growing after nine years. Don't think that it's "low" number of players (around 400,000) compared to other MMOs like WoW is due to its pay system; that's entirely because of it's full loot open PvP fuck-you difficulty.

    Where's the any key?

  • eye_meye_m Notta Chance, ABPosts: 3,133Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rdrakken
    Originally posted by Wakygreek

    So, F2P does mean Free To Play. It does not mean Free To Play without restriction. There is a difference here, because your title is a little misleading.

    Free 2 play means the game is free to play, not that part of the game is free to play and the rest is locked to subscriptions.

    Subscribe to unlock = paytrap

    Free to play means that the GAME IS FREE.

    Really? THATS what you're implying by "paytrap"?  lol 

     

    Those dastardly developers, trying to make money from investing millions into a game. 

     

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  • rdrakkenrdrakken Gotham, FLPosts: 426Member
    Originally posted by Wakygreek

     F2P does not mean the entire game is FREE.

    Yes, it does.

    F2P has existed for YEARS. You think its new because you dont know what it is. You think you know what F2P is because failed subscription games started using a hybrid model. Part free, part pay. They called it F2P in order to get F2P players to try the games.

    It started with DDO, they were able to get away with it for the most part because the locked parts of the game could be unlocked either via playing and earning shop points OR buying it outright which was closer to actual F2P models.

    You can call a dog a duck, but it still barks and licks its nads.

  • syntax42syntax42 Columbus, OHPosts: 1,305Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lightingbird

    Your wrong about several things regarding SWTOR. 

    It is not making huge profits.  They actually had several laysoff over it and even the stockholders are concerned at server decline in the game.  It was a failure.  Everyone should know that by now. 

     

    Your somewhat right about F2p but when games are clearly not doing well, they go F2P as an attempt to increase or get profits  via another model.  Basic simple business move to get profits when things are looking bad.  You don't think that somewhat means its failing?  Logical people do. 

    Layoffs don't have any indication of a game's success or failure.  It is simply a company's way of trying to cut costs.  Cutting costs could mean they failed to perform as expected, or simply their workload has changed.  In the case of any MMO release, either scenario is as likely as the other.

     

    I believe that by going F2P, MMOs are trying to tap into a separate market of players.  Many people are unintelligent or have no self-control when it comes to microtransactions.  There are enough of these people who will spend far more than $15 per month, keeping F2P MMOs profitable for far longer than they could be on subscriptions alone.

  • syntax42syntax42 Columbus, OHPosts: 1,305Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rdrakken
    Originally posted by Wakygreek

     F2P does not mean the entire game is FREE.

    Yes, it does.

    F2P has existed for YEARS. You think its new because you dont know what it is. You think you know what F2P is because failed subscription games started using a hybrid model. Part free, part pay. They called it F2P in order to get F2P players to try the games.

    It started with DDO, they were able to get away with it for the most part because the locked parts of the game could be unlocked either via playing and earning shop points OR buying it outright which was closer to actual F2P models.

    You can call a dog a duck, but it still barks and licks its nads.

    DDO is not an exception to the rule.  They entice players to pay real money by dangling a carrot on a stick.  Some stubborn people will chase that carrot and earn whatever game currency is used very slowly just to unlock things which are normally bought with real money.  However, there are far more people who get impatient and spend the money to buy things so they can play the rest of the game instead of waiting to earn those points.

  • ZierrityZierrity tonsbergPosts: 230Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rdrakken
    Originally posted by Wakygreek

     F2P does not mean the entire game is FREE.

    Yes, it does.

    F2P has existed for YEARS. You think its new because you dont know what it is. You think you know what F2P is because failed subscription games started using a hybrid model. Part free, part pay. They called it F2P in order to get F2P players to try the games.

    It started with DDO, they were able to get away with it for the most part because the locked parts of the game could be unlocked either via playing and earning shop points OR buying it outright which was closer to actual F2P models.

    You can call a dog a duck, but it still barks and licks its nads.

    Well you're right about that it's been around for years, but the "subscribe for more content" is far from new aswell... Take a look at Rune Scape for example... It's been around since 2001 (if I remember correctly), it is very much known as a f2p title, even though you have to be a subscriber to access some of the content, (or atleast you had to a couple of years ago). Yes, F2P have been around for years, but so has the "Micro-transactions" within them.

    Just saying...

    image

  • rdrakkenrdrakken Gotham, FLPosts: 426Member
    Originally posted by Zierrity

    Well you're right about that it's been around for years, but the "subscribe for more content" is far from new aswell... Take a look at Rune Scape for example... It's been around since 2001 (if I remember correctly), it is very much known as a f2p title, even though you have to be a subscriber to access some of the content, (or atleast you had to a couple of years ago). Yes, F2P have been around for years, but so has the "Micro-transactions" within them.

    Just saying...

     oof bad choice. Runescape was not only released as a sub game, they even charged beta testers. I believe it dropped subscriptions in 2007 and didnt drop free parts like PvP until 2008.

    But yeah, micro-transactions in a shop doesnt effect something being F2P or not unless its unlocking parts of the game which is why I mentioned DDO getting away with it because it was content that could be unlocked via playing the game and not just paying money.

    Either way, for the last 4 years failed sub games have been trying to change F2P into paytraps and not one of them has done near as well as the better ACTUAL F2P games...this conversation would be laughed out of European and Asian forums where F2P games are most popular.

  • ZierrityZierrity tonsbergPosts: 230Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rdrakken

     oof bad choice. Runescape was not only released as a sub game, they even charged beta testers. I believe it dropped subscriptions in 2007 and didnt drop free parts like PvP until 2008.

    Ah ok, didnt know that, so my bad :P

    While I do agree with you on the parts about "paytraps", as I, aswell, do believe that a truly free to play game should be just that, (not require any form of real money transactions to unlock curtain parts of the game), it's kind of hard to discuss the "true" translation of "Free to Play", as it means different things to different people. Some mean that a f2p game should be, shall we say, truly free to play, While others might interpretate it as a game you have access to, without any payment up front. (that you can download it and start playing without actually paying any money).

    My point being... In my opinion saying that your interpretation of Free to Play is the right one, isn't really fair, as the developers of said game never really said that you could play everything in their game without a single transaction. I do want to point out that I too, believe that free to play should be free to play without restrictions, but as the meaning behind F2P is kind of "vageu", I, for one, find it a hard topic to discuss...

    image

  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon
    So all those games that I downloaded and played for free and did not spend any money were not free? I'm flabbergasted my perception of reality must be really warped so I bow to you superior insight and can only thank you for helping me see the light.

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • rdrakkenrdrakken Gotham, FLPosts: 426Member
    Originally posted by Zierrity
    Originally posted by rdrakken

     oof bad choice. Runescape was not only released as a sub game, they even charged beta testers. I believe it dropped subscriptions in 2007 and didnt drop free parts like PvP until 2008.

    Ah ok, didnt know that, so my bad :P

    While I do agree with you on the parts about "paytraps", as I, aswell, do believe that a truly free to play game should be just that, (not require any form of real money transactions to unlock curtain parts of the game), it's kind of hard to discuss the "true" translation of "Free to Play", as it means different things to different people. Some mean that a f2p game should be, shall we say, truly free to play, While others might interpretate it as a game you have access to, without any payment up front. (that you can download it and start playing without actually paying any money).

    My point being... In my opinion saying that your interpretation of Free to Play is the right one, isn't really fair, as the developers of said game never really said that you could play everything in their game without a single transaction. I do want to point out that I too, believe that free to play should be free to play without restrictions, but as the meaning behind F2P is kind of "vageu", I, for one, find it a hard topic to discuss...

     Well thats the trick isnt it?

    Let me try it this way. Sandbox a term used by the genre for years, we played them, we know what makes it a sandbox. Then, suddenly an Asian games come out being called a sandbox with themeparks and a story on a rail...but they still call it a sandbox because it has a lot of their features...and then suddenly a bunch of other companies start doing the same thing.

    Is the word sandbox now something different? If Blizzard called WoW a sandbox does it magically become one?

    To the other guy stating he downloaded and played a bunch of the games im talking about for free and thus it makes it F2P. I can download and play WoW for free for 20 levels also, does it make it F2P? No. You have to sub to play the entire game just like with paytraps...hell you cant even use all the CHAT channels in paytraps, or recieve items in the mail....or have more than a handfull of money...the game isnt free.

  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rdrakken
    Originally posted by Zierrity
    Originally posted by rdrakken

     oof bad choice. Runescape was not only released as a sub game, they even charged beta testers. I believe it dropped subscriptions in 2007 and didnt drop free parts like PvP until 2008.

    Ah ok, didnt know that, so my bad :P

    While I do agree with you on the parts about "paytraps", as I, aswell, do believe that a truly free to play game should be just that, (not require any form of real money transactions to unlock curtain parts of the game), it's kind of hard to discuss the "true" translation of "Free to Play", as it means different things to different people. Some mean that a f2p game should be, shall we say, truly free to play, While others might interpretate it as a game you have access to, without any payment up front. (that you can download it and start playing without actually paying any money).

    My point being... In my opinion saying that your interpretation of Free to Play is the right one, isn't really fair, as the developers of said game never really said that you could play everything in their game without a single transaction. I do want to point out that I too, believe that free to play should be free to play without restrictions, but as the meaning behind F2P is kind of "vageu", I, for one, find it a hard topic to discuss...

     Well thats the trick isnt it?

    Let me try it this way. Sandbox a term used by the genre for years, we played them, we know what makes it a sandbox. Then, suddenly an Asian games come out being called a sandbox with themeparks and a story on a rail...but they still call it a sandbox because it has a lot of their features...and then suddenly a bunch of other companies start doing the same thing.

    Is the word sandbox now something different? If Blizzard called WoW a sandbox does it magically become one?

    To the other guy stating he downloaded and played a bunch of the games im talking about for free and thus it makes it F2P. I can download and play WoW for free for 20 levels also, does it make it F2P? No. You have to sub to play the entire game just like with paytraps...hell you cant even use all the CHAT channels in paytraps, or recieve items in the mail....or have more than a handfull of money...the game isnt free.

     

    Can you download it and play it for free meaning without spending any money? I think yes is the answer I really don't see it any other way its that simple and Blizzards advertsising actually tells you its free to play until level 20 so thats even better. I've never seen a bunch of people try to make a mountain out of a mole hill like gamers with the whole free2play concept. All free2play means is you can download the client and play for free, thats it, pay2play means you have to pay to access the online service and buy2play means you have to pay for the client but you can access the service for free, and many companies now have the hybrid Freemium model which is a mixture of free2play and pay2play, simple really I hope that doesn't blow ya mind man!

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • rdrakkenrdrakken Gotham, FLPosts: 426Member
    Originally posted by Calerxes

     

    Can you download it and play it for free meaning without spending any money? I think yes is the answer I really don't see it any other way its that simple and Blizzards advertsising actually tells you its free to play until level 20 so thats even better. I've never seen a bunch of people try to make a mountain out of a mole hill like gamers with the whole free2play concept. All free2play means is you can download the client and play for free, thats it, pay2play means you have to pay to access the online service and buy2play means you have to pay for the client but you can access the service for free, and many companies now have the hybrid Freemium model which is a mixture of free2play and pay2play, simple really I hope that doesn't blow ya mind man!

     So WoW is F2P. Rift is F2P.

    I can download their clients and play for free.

    Calling everything one thing really IS simple and makes the world easier to wrap my head around! its so much better than calling it what it is or going against what its advertised as. Take that homestyle soup for example. they CALL IT HOMESTYLE SO IT MUST BE!

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member

    Most games are DEMO'S! ..

     

    The only real F2p system I've seen so far with MMORPG's was NCSoft's with Aion.  All others fall short.

     

    Make me want the upgrades to personality?  They did this!

     

    Make me pay money to get the latest content? uhh

     

    Pay money to be able to play with friends.. Die in a fire. (current F2P model).

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • rdrakkenrdrakken Gotham, FLPosts: 426Member
    Originally posted by Karteli

    Most games are DEMO'S! ..

     

    The only real F2p system I've seen so far with MMORPG's was NCSoft's with Aion.  All others fall short.

     

    Make me want the upgrades to personality?  They did this!

     

    Make me pay money to get the latest content? uhh

     

    Pay money to be able to play with friends.. Die in a fire. (current F2P model).

     Yep, that is why they were called Paytraps when the first few western sub fails tried to do it. And I will always call them that because its what they are. They are closer to being a demo, than F2P.

  • dageezadageeza london, KYPosts: 578Member

    There is a huge difference in the freemium models used by subscription companies and true F2P..

    F2P is free to play all classes and races and content with no limits on what you can accomplish if you are willing to work hard enough you wont have to pay a dime...

     

    Then we have freemium which is limited classes and races and in many of them limited content most of the dinosaurs doing this model are simply shooting for one last cash grab hoping that their game will catch a second wind in subscriptions, in most cases it wont work long term because their is many true F2P games out there..

    Playing GW2..

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