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fundamental designs?

lordwolfelordwolfe North Richland Hills, TXPosts: 6Member

I've tended to notice a cirtian trend when people are talking about MMO's these days. I dont really know if this is necisarilly a good thing, or a bad thing, but I usually let the experts on the field debate such issues. I just thought it was about time I start throwing some of my personal views out there and see if others mite actually agree with them.

one of the major things that people tend to do when discussing such subject matter MMORPG's in general get trendized into some types of certian niches, agian im not sure if this is necissarilly a bad thing, but it does happen alot. what I've noticed most promanently is that people usually talk about generalized features of a game, and always want to discus the content not offered by a game.

this agian as I have said may not necisarilly be a bad thing, but what im getting at ultimately is this:

Why dont people talk about MMORPGS as individual games anymore? everyone always is discussing why game A is greater than game B, but they never ask why cant both be great and just be fun for what they are good at. they always simply want to pick them apart until they think they can tell everyone else how they would do it better?

people are usually more eager to discuss whats missing, but never discus what isn't. like I said befoe I havent decided weather this is bad or good and I'd rather let the professionals discus such matters.

but I'm really woundering why cant we just discus the fundimentals. whats a design scheme that will work? what features do you really want? And how can we all agree on a game bieng what we all want, rather than what game A or game B are doiung?

Comments

  • CaldenforCaldenfor Meredith, NHPosts: 133Member

    Ummm, I think what you want is exactly what already happens quite often, but perhaps it is the inverse of what you feel is actually happening?

     

    People design what they think will work, generally by taking inspiration from games where the aspect has worked before and they build upon it. As a means of comparison they point out games that are lacking in the features they feel will work and use that as a reason why it should be in a game. Thus pointing out the issues they see in games and how they would remedy them by using aspects of games that have worked.

     

    So many spelling errors =/.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member Common


    Originally posted by lordwolfe
    but I'm really woundering why cant we just discus the fundimentals. whats a design scheme that will work? what features do you really want? And how can we all agree on a game bieng what we all want, rather than what game A or game B are doiung?
    This is the proverbial pipedream. We, as MMO players, cannot agree if we like FFA OWPvP or not. We cannot agree if tab target combat is better than mouse aiming combat. Heck, we even have trouble agreeing on a good pace for the game.

    More tough areas we find it difficult to agree on:
    instant travel options
    Flight or no flight
    cash shop options
    Pay to Win definition
    Sandbox or Themepark setting
    Crafting
    Housing
    1st person, 3rd person, or Isometric views
    UI Implementation and what looks best where on your screen
    Allow add-on software or not. If yes, what kinds of add-ons?

    As you can see, this is just scratching the surface of the many ways MMO players find fun in their games. There will never be a game we can all agree on. Besides, what fun would the forums be if everyone agreed on something? lol

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • CaldenforCaldenfor Meredith, NHPosts: 133Member
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky
      Originally posted by lordwolfe
    but I'm really woundering why cant we just discus the fundimentals. whats a design scheme that will work? what features do you really want? And how can we all agree on a game bieng what we all want, rather than what game A or game B are doiung?
    This is the proverbial pipedream. We, as MMO players, cannot agree if we like FFA OWPvP or not. We cannot agree if tab target combat is better than mouse aiming combat. Heck, we even have trouble agreeing on a good pace for the game.

     

    More tough areas we find it difficult to agree on:
    instant travel options
    Flight or no flight
    cash shop options
    Pay to Win definition
    Sandbox or Themepark setting
    Crafting
    Housing
    1st person, 3rd person, or Isometric views
    UI Implementation and what looks best where on your screen
    Allow add-on software or not. If yes, what kinds of add-ons?

    As you can see, this is just scratching the surface of the many ways MMO players find fun in their games. There will never be a game we can all agree on. Besides, what fun would the forums be if everyone agreed on something? lol

    I think it all has to do with the end design goal, what do the developers want to provide for the players, much like you have stated. As to what is best to provide to the players, that is up for debate, but I feel there are certain things that are often over looked by professional and indie developers alike.

    How do players fit into the world? Are they a typical human, a human that excels, a super human, a demi-god? The more power you provide a player the less they fit into a world. The level of power a person gains increases the chance of corruption and when an MMO is filled with corrupt people you won't have a healthy community or a believable society.

    How does the world interact with the player? Does the world stay static so everyone has the same game experience? Can players create portions of the world via structures/etc? Do the actions of players influence the world at all or only themselves? If a player is only in it for themselves you will struggle to develop a strong community as people have no reason to rely on each other or care what others think. If you leave it entirely up to the players to be nice in an anonymous world with no reprecussions you will have a large enough portion of players just ruining it for others.

    How do players view the world? The way a player views the world is critical to their involvement within it. What do you want them to focus on? If a player has no focus they will often overlook most areas of the world and much time would be wasted on creating things that no one would ever enjoy as they would have no reason to view it. If you focus a player's attention it will help you create a world that is much more influential to gameplay.

     

    In today's market I would say the least traveled path, yet highly effective, would be one that is open world with a fixed third person camera like Ultima Online provided. It focuses the player on their immediate surroundings and allows the developers to focus on gameplay first and foremost. Remove Free for All PvP, but maintain the criminal aspects of the world such as stealing, aiding criminals, and even graverobbing(corpse looting). Provide factions within the world for players to join with that fight for various beneficial aspects of the game; territory control, market control, resource control, and various other desireables are possiblities. Various non-combat based activities are also essential such as homeowning/decorating, animal taming, immersive crafting that requires thought into what is being created, and other activities that players can partake in and enjoy without relying completely on PvE or PvP to fill a player's time.

  • prodigaL_sonprodigaL_son SCS, MIPosts: 21Member

    To answer the OP:

    Because we all play games with an expectation that it will be perfect.  This expectation is of course never met, because since we are all very different people with very different versions of perfection, the game developers can't appease us all.  We talk about what is "lacking" in a game, because it is something from our perfect vision of said game that the current game we are playing doesn't satisfy.  Or, we grew to love something in a previous game and are disappointed that the current game didn't employ the same feature.  This is just common sense.  To be honest, it is a really stupid question.

    It is clear that the majority of people want a  themepark games with rails and quest lines.  The masses want to know exactly how powerful they will be at each level and what gear they will get when they waste obscene hours of their lives on something that means, essentially, nothing.  This is why people who come on MMO forums complain.  Because, typically, we are not part of the general masses that play these games, we are just victims of being obsessed with something where we aren't the majority.  So, we get looked over and screwed.  But, our obsession outweighs our frustration and we pay and play these awful games anyways in hopes that our patience will pay off an there will be something good in the future.

    I doubt this "good" MMO will ever come.  The best MMO in development is probably some game none of us know about and the company developing it doesnt have the funds to make it work correctly.  The games that make it are games that can produce exciting Bar Graphs and Pie Charts to a boardroom of executive who are only (and rightly so I guess) concerned with the bottom line... "Sure this game may shit on the chest of our hardcore players, but our launch numbers will more than cover our investment and the rest is cake!"

    What will save the MMO?  If some "hardcore" MMO loser somehow makes a lot of money and self funds a project that is well guided and deliberately made for all the people that really appreciate the MMO idea.  But, this will never happen because they are all too busy writing on forums and playing themeparks with their pants aroud their ankles to get outside and make something happen.  I game with these types of nerds all the time: "Oh I can program games, snargle snargle snargle...", "Well, why don't we make one?"... "Well, idk I am in my mom's basement and I need to get to level 50 before I can think about anything else"

    I say, the more we complain, the less we pay for these cookie-cutter MMOs, the more the big companies will take notice and look to make changes.  But, a lot of gamers are too lazy, too dependant on cyber socialization, and too delusional to butch up and take a stand.  STOP PAYING FOR THIS TRASH and maybe, just maybe, the suits will notice.

    Free Nelson Mandela

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